Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The tax credits system was wide open to abuse because it was run by HMRC which never had the DWP’s expertise in managing benefits assessment. It is progressively being replaced by universal credit which is run by the DWP so it’s much less of an issue now. It was possible under the old system to get a pretty hefty tax credit payout by registering as self employed, doing very little and then claiming to work 30 hours, but reinvesting all the profit in getting the business established. It seems that as long as the tax credit claim was matched by a credible tax return HMRC never bothered to check.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Exactly. With UC, a notional income is applied whether received or not after a year (currently suspended due to covid) to deal with this.

I had a taxi driver saying he worked 16 hours for £1 an hour (yeah right). After the minimum wage came in, I said that I expected him to pursue the minimum wage that he was entitled to because I was going to use this notional figure on his claim whether he did or not. The following week, he said that he only worked for two hours a week for about £16. He was referred straight to fraud for trying to insult my intelligence alone.

They observed him, found that he was working over 16 hours a week and got the clam closed because he was excluded from the benefit that he was claiming. By being greedy he lost everything.

He wasn't an EU immigrant though (he was Asian), what EU migrants did was to register as self employed for 16 hours a week to get Tax Credits as things like scrap metal collectors, but miraculously they hardly ever found any scrap, so received the maximum Tax Credits available.

Thieving scroungers they may be, but they're not stupid.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'm sure BoJo know better than to follow this advice. Does Mark Francois really want us to be known as Perfidious Albion once more?
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/bo...nd-deal-913169

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not sure someone's intelligence can be measured by the quality of tomorrows chip paper, an idiot is just as capable of buying the same paper as a genius;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It seems to be the only language the EU understands.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

UK Fisheries Ltd is co-owned by the Icelandic company Samherji hf and the Dutch Parlevliet en van der Plas, and two companies, North Atlantic Fishing Co. and Valiant Trawlers (counted together in the text), are both owned by Netherlands based company Cornelis Vrolijk/Jaczon.

Registered under a flag of convenience in the uk.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I looked up "intransigence", and couldn't find a defintion that included "expecting signatories to a treaty to fulfill the conditions of that treaty" or "not allowing a signatory to a treaty to breach the treaty unilaterally"... ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You mean like the extended grace period they offered us before, to give everyone time to sort stuff out?

We signed a treaty - breaching this does not augur well for treaties with other countries, reputation-wise....

Perhaps if we took up their new offer to reach agreement?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Exactly. Why should the likes of Iran and North Korea adhere to international treaties if countries in the West like the UK do not do the same?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

By asking us to "enter into good faith consultations in the Joint Committee, the body which oversees the protocol, with the aim of reaching a mutually agreed solution "?

First "intransigence" and now "royally screw us over" - can I suggest you return your etymological reference source and ask for a refund? :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No. The West does not need such treaty-breaking, it only benefits the country's genuine enemies.

David Frost needs to cease playing his Perfidious Albion role and engage with the agreed mechanisms if wants an extension. That's what he negotiated in December.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not trying to wind you up - just pointing out your ‘interesting" interpretation of some words.

Speaking of warped attitudes to the EU, have you perhaps been in the vicinity of a looking glass recently?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56415197

#DespiteBrexit :dozey:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

But if you have a treaty, any "leeway" should be under the terms of the treaty, not unilateral action (by either side) - otherwise, what is the point of (any) treaty?

I’m sorry if you found my humour "nasty", it was not intended to be - I was just pointing out that you tend to have an extremely partisan view on these things, and trying to do so in a light-hearted manner.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'm sure that if the UK had requested it, an arrangement could have been found. Instead, David Frost has donned BoJo's Perfidious Albion cap and proceeded with intent to breach an international treaty.

It's a flawed strategy as we need to build our goodwill to try and add to the Brexit deal eg to make it easier for our musicians to tour Europe, a sector where we enjoy a balance of trade surplus.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We didn’t ask for anything - we told them we were doing it.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Any evidence to back that up, as no one in HMG has stated that?

There were discussions in early February about these things, but the talks were ongoing until the U.K. unilaterally said they were happening.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-brexit-checks

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The channels were not used, the UK just sent out a press release. As well as threatening court action which it hopes won't be used, the EU has requested that the appropriate channels are used in a side letter to David Frost.

It requests that the UK enters into good faith consultations in the Joint Committee, with the aim of reaching a mutually agreed solution by the end of this month.

David Frost's aggressive stance is in marked contrast to Michael Gove's more constructive approach. Perhaps it's designed to keep the ERG happy, but it looks unlikely to help us build on the foundations of the Brexit deal which we need to do.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-56381046

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If BoJo or David Frost had wanted to paint the UK's actions in a better light, I'm sure they would have claimed that their overtures were rebuffed. They haven't.

They've also not disputed the statement that "The UK resorted to this unilateral action without any discussion or consultation with the EU side in the bodies established by the Withdrawal Agreement."

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You have to wonder what is the UK Governments end game here... By breaking or threatening to break agreements made by the Government itself less than 4 months ago is not a good look internationally. Dominic Raab is currently criticising China for not honouring their treaties regarding Hong Kong while at home, there seems to be a will to break our treaty with the EU.

I can see three possible reasons for the approach being taken;

• Theatrics for political reasons - the EU don't like the taste of British steel and we quietly roll back later
• The treaty does not get signed off by the EU Parliament making the EU to blame for 'no deal'
• The EU makes good on its' threat to launch a legal dispute making the EU bullies

As ever, there is a strange situation where we are Great Brtian and don't you forget it, while simultaneously being bullied by the EU

My biggest concern is that it seems that actions taken which look good in the pages of The Telegraph, Mail and Express may not look so good internationally. Or, to put it on a closer to home example, you know that a plumber ripped off your neighbour, would you hire him?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Thanks for the compliments!

On your last comment, I would ask 'how so'? I agree that there will be differences of course but principle stands. I see in the COVID thread that you discuss risk assessment. With an international treaty, you would look at the risks and threats of the other party not complying with the treaty and embed corresponding mechanisms to account for this.

The robustness of those provisions would reflect the risk of one or both parties breaking the treaty and the consequences of that break and could vary from 'let's have a little chat' to ending the treaty immediately.

There's little trust between nation states which is why treaties exist in the first place. If treaties can be freely broken without consequence, this has a major impact on that trust

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

"we should have walked away 2 years after Article 50"

Too right, we wouldn't be any worse off :tu:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Spot on post.
:clap::clap::clap:

---------- Post added at 12:23 ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 ----------

I would also add that breaking treaties has global ramifications. How can the UK complain about China breaking treaties in Hong Kong if we are breaking treaties ourselves. We don't have much of a leg to stand on.

I've said all along that the UK should have taken advantage of the EU's generous offer to extend the Withdrawal Agreement by another year. Instead, BoJo preferred to leave knowing that the systems were not in place but that the negative effects of Brexit would be neatly hidden by the pandemic.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It's like listening to a DJ with only one record:rolleyes:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So when the Government signed off on the 6 months grace period, do you feel it was done with the full intention of doing the work in 6 months or did the Government have no intention of fulfilling that promise and was going to take 2 years anyway?

If it was the first and there have been issues with getting everything in place, surely the sensible option would be to go through the Joint Committee set up to oversee and monitor the application of the treaty rather than just doing it. Let's remember that the Government has not requested an extension, it has told the EU it is taking one. It seems unnecessarily belligerent.

If it was the second and the UK had no intention of fulfilling its' obligations, then infringement procedures are probably justified.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

A unilateral action by either side would trigger infringement proceedings.

The Government should have used the Joint Committee to secure an extension. That's what the mechanism is there for and is what the UK agreed to. Why have an agreement and not use it?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Probably 'Circles' by Manfred Mann's Earth Band ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

From a quote in my previous post The U.K. Government took unilateral action four weeks after talks commenced, only two weeks before sign-off of a deal was expected, with four weeks left on the existing grace period - why not wait two more weeks, and if no amicable solution was forthcoming, then take the unilateral action?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It was the expected date of an agreed solution at the time the talks started.

And then there was a joint statement on the 24th of February, a week before the U.K.’s unilateral statement.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/j...-february-2021

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think Chris Patten summed it up nicely when he said “This requires diplomacy which doesn’t assume that the best way to do origami is with a blowtorch." :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Chris Patten knows his stuff.

It's yet another poor decision made by David Frost who it's rumoured is so out of his depth that he wears a scuba diving suit to meetings. :D If he'd made better decisions last year, we wouldn't be in the shambles that we're in now. Even the US is losing patience with us and telling us to stop messing around and honour our agreements.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Visa is to join Mastercard in raising interchange fees for UK customers. https://news.sky.com/story/visa-to-h...-move-12247818

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The US should stfu. It’s got it’s own domestic troubles.

The corrupted EU doesn’t know meaning of honour. But here we are again, the pathetic disgrace that is the constant; you siding with those corrupted cretins. :rolleyes:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The US are a guarantor to the Good Friday Agreement, which is why they’re commenting.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Maybe they'll refuse to send us any chlorinated chicken?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That’s a pity, it goes really well with our chlorinated salad.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That is priceless, why have you waited so long to throw that bomb in?

Chlorinated chicken argument........................................cl osed.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Shit, I've been waiting for the cheaper chlorinated chicken for so long.....

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No it isn't, for me and anyone that's paid any sort of attention the question is what's going on for there to be a need to give it a dip the chlorine bath and when you actually see what's going on you don't want to have anything to do with it

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Let me guess. They take chickens, slit their throats, let them bleed out, a quick plunge in boiling water to make auto plucking easier then off to the chiller. Did I miss anything?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Maybe it's chlorinated boiling water? :)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That comes out of the tap here;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No that's Fluorine you fool :D

It has a distinctive smell, keeps your nose from getting too near the cup of tea you've just made, thereby preventing you chipping your front teeth . . . or something like that ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I though our water supply came from the swimming baths.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Guess again Poindexter

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You forgot the bit before they got their throats slit, where they are grown in tiny cages one on top of the other, raining waste on the chicken below.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Is this a common practice in the UK, or are you referring to the USA?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

There's a Dispatches programme on Four OD called The Truth About Chlorinated Chicken that is highly enlightening, in part it goes into how they lobby government to turn a blind eye to the amount of deaths the US endure each year due to food poisoning due to hygiene, cross contamination and all round general wretched conditions, how they pay through the nose to avoid standards that would prevent the rediculously high number of amputations workers suffer due to insufficient training and being over worked and how if we let them in here how the only option our own producer's would have to compete with the price would be to lower our standards to a similar level and don't think the custoner would get the right to choose as thanks again to the lobbying any trade deal we agree will have in it that they don't have to lable it. Anyone who thinks this is as simple as dunking a chicken in a bucket of chlorine wash is very much mistaken.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Exactly.

Whilst the preparation of chickens in a factory setting may be much the same (boiling then plucking if not free range). The before and after comparisons between the UK & the US are vast.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

There is Chlorine in tap water, but not at harmful levels obviously, just like your salad and soon to be chicken.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It does and that's why I have to top it up every day in the Jacuzzi but I'd still have to be pretty thirsty before I drank the water!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If Hydrogen is flammable, and Oxygen is an accelerant and oxidizer . . .


. . . why won't water burn? :p:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

again?

seems to be a lot of that about ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You need waterproof matches;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

What where you trying to set fire too under water?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Seph’s hobby is deep-sea welding. Didn’t you know?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think the issue is more the need to chlorinate the chicken. Our farming standards are higher so we don't have Sam and Ella and don't need to deal with poultry in ways that US do.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Sam and Ella are always lurking, often it's not the product at fault but the preparation before cooking ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Speak to a British entrepreneur and they'll counter that. Such people are being thrown under the Boris bus as he pursues the red wall vote instead.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-export-advice

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

https://www.foodmanufacture.co.uk/Ar...hit-in-January

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1616850877

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You mean delivering on their wishes.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No, because if they did that they wouldn't have halved TfN's budget. I mean a more left-wing interventionist approach to business.

---------- Post added at 14:00 ---------- Previous post was at 13:58 ----------

No but like the Euro and Shengen we don't have to eat everything just because it's on the menu.
What should that cheese producer do? Move to the EU?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Is that a euphemism for downsize? As he's proved that exporting to the EU is uneconomic as are transport costs to countries like the US which Liz Truss advised him to do.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You need to try and understand that answering a question you asked with factual information is not an attempt to "rubbish your assertion".

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Follow the rules.

I don't link the very high number of excess deaths to Brexit nor do I link the vaccination programme to it. We had the freedom to follow our own course here inside or outside the EU.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

They can come to cleethorpes we've got greasy food /beer/and a beach ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Do I understand this correctly?

People (Brits) go to live in Spain but don't bother with the required paperwork . . . and then cry when they get deported.

Shame eh :rolleyes:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Yep, the idiots didn't bother, they had plenty warning.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Since your post didn't mention COVID, and it hadn't been mentioned for a couple of weeks in this thread, can you understand why the connection wasn't made?

Re: Britain outside the EU