Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Closed until morning.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

... and reopened. Be good.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Strange this gets closed overnight. Is it on Dom's orders ? ;)

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

More likely the Mods want to get a bit of shut-eye rather than policing squabbling members. :D

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

I'm still working so it's only weekends I can sit up to all hours with a beer arguing :D

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

I thought the lunch break didn’t commence until 12 noon. Not breaking the rules I hope, jfman!

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Guilty as charged.

However, surely now time to move on from Cummingsgate, it's not hard and fast, it's not black and white.

Some support what he did or most likely couldn't care, some oppose (those opposing also being the Media and all opposition parties) therefore skewing the general perception.

either way, they are not getting their kill, he isn't going by the looks of it. So leave it otherwise they are looking increasingly desperate.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

No, its because you cant be trusted to behave while we sleep. :sleep:

:Yes:

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Wishful thinking I am afraid.

Polling expert Sir John Curtice issues damning verdict for Boris on Dominic Cummings row

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

It's bad for them but they've already taken the hit at this point. Might as well keep him if that's what Johnson wants.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Bit of cotton wool in the ears and just ride it out,it's just a storm in a teacup.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Well, if they insist on banging on about it for several more weeks, still without getting his head, then public opinion will start to turn.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Of course, it could be completely and easily closed down if he just published the journey data from 27th March to 20th April from his Landrover Discovery's InControl Journey Tracker (free 3 year subscription with a new car, and his is a 69 reg).

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Obsessed much?

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Jesus................

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Miss Marple pops up everywhere.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Not really - my nephew has the same car, and he mentioned it.

It would clear it all up, and shut it down for good.

DC was the one who said I notice he only mentions that his phone could prove he wasn’t there on the 19th - very carefully worded...

---------- Post added at 18:03 ---------- Previous post was at 18:02 ----------

Pretty sure he had a Donkey, not a Disco... ;)

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Anyone fancy a beer?

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1590600742

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Time to move on.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

I'm furloughed until July 1st ATM, I can't be bothered with booze

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Is this still going ?

Yesterdays news/attack now.

Surely there must be more relevant news than dragging this along (Like Track & Trace ?).

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

That's not how the Durham police see it. Investigation ongoing and lots of number plate cameras for them to look at. Dom has nothing to fear I'm sure ;)

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Get yourself an emergency teatotal test this could be serious:shocked:

---------- Post added at 19:02 ---------- Previous post was at 19:00 ----------

Nothing to be gained from that.
time to move on.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

I think that was the distraction of the day..we will see if it works by tomorrow's headlines.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

OK, Boris...:D

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

I actually do say it’s time to move on. Thread closed and will reopen subject to there being any significant updates.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

BREAKING: Durham Police. Cummings may have broke rules in a minor way, but no further action is required.

As it’s a significant development in the story. Thread opened to discussion.

https://news.sky.com/story/dominic-c...rules-11996238

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

So no action because of who he is? Whilst everyone gets fined. So if he did break the rules then he should at least apologise.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

come Monday, it will be but a footnote in this saga, although whatsherface on BBC Breakfast brought it up....again... to Matt Hancock this morning. They can't let it go.....well they'll have to.

Irrespective of the man or the issue or the party, I am quite glad that for once that somebody was not sacrificed on the alter of the mainstream media just because they wanted it so. Long may it continue.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

I look forward to you robustly defending a Labour politician or adviser on the same basis.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

He broke the rules he wrote. No excuses. He thought he was above them as he's one of the 'elite'.

The police may take no action, but BJ should, otherwise it's anything goes for the rest of us.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Described as a 'minor' breaking of the rules as no social distancing was broken.

So therefore by Durham Police logic then it was fine to drive all along so long as you didn't breach social distancing.

Even so, this is still at odds with what DC said himself which was he had obeyed the laws at all time.

So whilst the majority of people will still continue to obey the lockdown regulations. I would expect to see an increased number flouting the rules because rightly or wrongly they think they can get away with it now.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Bottom line is instead of owning up and saying he took his wife out for her birthday, he lied and said he risked his wife and child's life to test his eye sight but the police and everyone has to take it as face value and accept it??. As excuses go, it's about as believable using 'Pizza Express'.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Everyone gets fined ?

Police spoke to people out and about who should not have been and advised them to Stay at home. Not everyone was handed out fines.

Those who blatantly flouted the rules did. Cummings didn't blatantly flout the rules. His drive to Durham was not an offence and cannot be treated as such.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Notice another lockfown abuser, Robert Jenrick has slipped under the radar because of this kerfuffle. His latesr corrupt action being unlawfully approving a housing development for a party donor so tens of millions in tax could be "avoided".

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Did Cummings' press briefing in the Number Ten Rose Garden convince you to change your mind?
Prior to that, you said his position was untenable due to precedence.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Such a minor incident the police can't be bothered to pursue it, all this fuss and faux outrage for something that's not even worth a mention.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

In line with normal procedure - if they had caught him at the time, they would have "had a chat" and sent him back to Durham.

First off was ‘he didn’t do it", now it’s "oh, it wasn’t that serious"....

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

No, I stand by what I said at the time given what I knew at the time, which was he travelled to Durham, I didn’t know the full circumstances and if he had gone to Durham on a jolly, like the other previous two people had then yes.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

The law is designed to make prosecutions and fines the exception, not the rule. Had he been spoken to at the time he'd be told to go home, the fact it's now six weeks later makes it disproportionate for the police to pursue it now.

It's really not a matter of whether he broke the law to the extent we can haul him in front of the courts. There's no reason to do that - however some, perhaps a majority, will legitimately believe that he acted unreasonably.

And that's the point of lockdown. Government passed laws that met a minimum threshold to avoid legal challenge. It issued guidance that went further, Minister after Minister made statements that tried to define 'reasonable', and it asked the population to act in good faith during a public health emergency.

The political problem now for the Government isn't that he made minor infractions of a weakly written law that was open to interpretation. It's that "I read the what the regulations stated and deemed this to be reasonable, it's not my fault you aren't as clever as me" is exactly the kind of thing that irks anti-establishment, anti-elites.

Had he upon reflection held his hands up and said, yep I can see people's point and apologised, the police said they'd spoke to him case closed, we would genuinely have moved forward.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

You seem to be letting this none story get to you,there's nothing to see ,nothing to be done,and no point dwelling on it.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Our super elite better than the rest of the world scientists denied an opinion on Cummings 'reasonableness'.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

If there is nothing to it then why has the PM just stopped Whitty and Valance giving their comments on Cummings.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Let it go,this story is dead buried and consigned to history.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

We aren't in China yet. I'm sure for other subjects you weren't interested in you'd simply be invited to peruse other threads that may be of more interest you.

However this one has you hooked to defend Dom at all costs.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

You hope of course.;)

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

I'm not defending anyone. i'm just pointing out the discussion has run it's course,but if you feel the need to drag it out for a few more years feel free to waste your time as you see fit.

---------- Post added at 17:44 ---------- Previous post was at 17:43 ----------

It's just boring now den there's no corps for the circling vultures to devour.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Defending someone/censoring criticism I care not for the distinction. It's an easy subject to avoid should it bore you that much. :)

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Seph, politics is political. Any law drafted by politicians around the word "reasonable" by its nature leaves interpretation open to the masses. That's literally how judgements would be made around any law that has the word in it. How would your bog standard average person interpret events.

The fact a majority don't consider his activity reasonable, including the police, demonstrates that his behaviour has been unreasonable. His lack of contrition is fuel to the fire.

---------- Post added at 17:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:51 ----------

Ah Civil Servants. There to do the Government's bidding.

Hopefully we remember that when it comes to blaming the politicians or the scientists when we have the inevitable Coronavirus inquiry as to how we have the most deaths per capita in the world despite substantial warning.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

it’s not just a political matter on Cummings but it is also a scientific and medical matter too.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

The irony being they have now politicised themselves.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Whitty and Valance have either been gagged or have told No 10 that they will not publicly back the Prime Minister's defence of Cummings.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Because no one wants to hear them, we’re all bored of it

---------- Post added at 18:08 ---------- Previous post was at 18:05 ----------

Nope, it is now purely political.

And The legal angle is now closed. It’s a dead donkey

---------- Post added at 18:09 ---------- Previous post was at 18:08 ----------

It’s great to see the media silently freaking out that they have lost the agenda.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

If you are bored leaping to his defence at every turn then you aren't obliged to.

Of course it is now political - he has a credibility crisis that is haemorrhaging onto the Government now. Leave voters, remainers, Labour voters, Lib Dem voters.

The only group that doesn't think he should resign is Conservative voters, and even 46% of those think he should.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

TBH I'm not a drinker.


Yes I'l have it for birthdays etc, I'll say on Friday I'll have a drink tonight, then on Monday realise I've not had one.

But tonight is our family Skype Quiz night, I will have a drink with that.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

No it is not, far from it!

Civil servants is a neutral institution, therefore it has no right to be politically dragged in to stupid rows about "minor" issues which is exactly what this is has been since the non-story broke last Friday. :rolleyes:

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Full Fact's review of Dominic Cummins Lockdown trips.
https://fullfact.org/health/dominic-...ockdown-rules/

---------- Post added at 18:42 ---------- Previous post was at 18:40 ----------

If he'd apologised from day one and said I was under a lot of pressure, sorry, I made the wrong call, the story would not have had so much traction.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Everyone else doesnt get fined.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

I believe that's reserved for repeat offenders. I suspect most just apologise and head home.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

I'm not being argumentative for the sake of it. An officer can only determine what they think is reasonable at the time, yes. However upon appeal, and in front of that jury, they would be asked to consider reasonable in the context that I put earlier in the thread. What an average person would expect to do.

This is established in Case Law. So for example in HMRC penalties cannot be avoided because someone claimed to be ignorant of VAT - that's not considered reasonable. A person of average intelligence would be aware of VAT.

However could someone avoid a penalty, or receive a different type, on the basis of being unaware of intricate parts of the law - so long as they took reasonable steps.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

I don't think you actually believe that!

The people still going on about this, in the main, are those who just want to take him down. Had he admitted wrongdoing, that would have been used against him, for heaven's sake!

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

:D

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

I do accept that you believe that, and that's the issue with the word reasonable in law. It permits people to disagree, often without an arbiter (e.g. the penalty most often being 'look mate, go home') - someone given a nod from the Constabulary to reconsider their 'reasonableness' will often decide that it's not worth disputing especially against the backdrop of a public health emergency.

This is why I suggested the other day he admit to an error of judgement. I think such an admission would have satisfied the majority of the 52% of leave voters and 46% of Conservative voters who say he should go - creating a distinction between those politically motivated and just don't like him and those who believe he was in the wrong.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

I'll admit it has happened in other threads.:D

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

That's the trouble these days - leading politicians and their advisers are less than honest so everyone starts disbelieving each other.
The story has continued because it has not been killed by an apology or resignation. I've been consistent on this since my first post in this thread.
Cummins has continued to develop the story himself with the ridiculous eye test story on Sunday which I doubt you believe and by rewriting a blog post to make him look like the sage of CV-19. Conservative MPs have continued it by condemning him in emails to constituents.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

There is nothing he needs to apologise for, he owes you nothing, he owes me nothing. The only reason this story has carried on is because of the media obsession, nothing else. But you knew that already. :rolleyes:

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

You are plainly content that politicians and advisors you support can mislead the country without censure. However, the point was made that if this was a Labour administration, the current Tory supporters would the first in line to condemn, a point you chose not to address. Tribal support at the expense of objective reality.

Step back for a moment: the man in question is an advisor. An unelected employee of the Government. That's all. An objective assessment of this event would conclude that the message to the country, in the midst of a once in a century national health emergency was the priority here. No ifs or buts, the country would come first and any event that risked or compromised that message would handled accordingly. The real reason Cummings is still in place is what he holds over Johnson, Gove et. al. All this "nothing to see here", "media ****", etc. is just a smokescreen.

I do think that the Tories have miscalculated here and this will be an advantage to Starmer in the long run. The public mood, so at odds with you and the tribal Tories, is clear.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

You mean in the same way Labour supporters are lining up to condemn this administration? Yes, but I don’t get your point as obviously they cancel each other out, don’t they?

he’s a key member of the Brexit squad, Brexit isn’t over. He also obviously has skills and talent, too much to throw away on a whim to the Media hounds

. This is nothing, absolutely nothing. A side show and distraction which has actually taken a lot of heat off the Government. From other issues.

This will be forgotten about in days, not weeks.

Steamer will gain no advantage, Brexit is still unfinished that is where Starmer will battle Johnson......and Johnson will want his man next to him.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

The debate was - would an apology have shut the story down. Not whether one was required by us.

My belief - which I understand is shared by many Conservative MPs - is that it would have done.

A lack of an apology meant the story dragged over into the weekend. It also led to the Rose Garden press briefing. This increased interest in the story again as we saw a behind-the-scenes adviser speak, which is unusual. Then we heard the Barnard Castle explanation. This fuelled interest even more as the public reacted adversely.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

I think this is a bit naive. This is a story that people noticed and it'll leave a sour taste in the mouth. Every pollster that has polled on this has found people are unhappy about it and they think he broke the rules. The Government's polling collapse over the weekend has been dramatic: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a4451501.html

This is something people noticed, this is something they were upset about.

The polling will likely recover but it won't be completely forgotten. Governments are rarely critically harmed by a single scandal but they can only get so many before the cumulative effect begins to tell. People are less willing to give the benefit of the doubt later, people remember the previous ones when another one pops up, their image of the party takes a hit in their minds.

As hits go, this was a bad one to take. You rarely get something as powerful as this which has as big as an impact as this did in the poll. As I said the number will ease over time but it's far from 'a sideshow' which has taken heat from the Government. Johnson paid the price to keep Cummings.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

He obviously doesn't 'owe' anyone an apology.

However, fundamentally he's part of a Government that has broken it's bond of trust with the people. That's why 52% - a clear majority if I recall - of Leave voters think he should resign and it's only the politicised Conservative voter base (who understand his importance to the party) resisting the public majority.

That trust is bought, and lost, through being honest with people and delivering on promises.

The Government asked the public to act in good faith, adhering to behaviours it did not mandate in regulations but only in guidance. Cummings clearly has acted in bad faith, in contravention of the guidance and pushed the limit (or exceeded) the 'reasonableness' in legislation.

Either because he thinks rules should not apply to him, or because he made an error of judgement. One of those two scenarios plays out better with the public than the other, I'm amazed such an amazing political strategist has gone for the wrong one.

Edit: separate comment I'm enjoying Seph's patriotism with blue and red test on white backgrounds.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

No chance, only a resignation or public flogging would do.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

For some yes, but I doubt all of the 52% of leave voters, and 46% of Conservative voters.

It suits Conservatives (and those who don't identify as Conservative, but leap to their defence at every opportunity) to portray this as a polarising issue though and wave the Brexit flag. A lazy, ill-considered response hoping the dog whistle will come to the rescue.

I don't consider the Daily Mail, Isabel Oakeshott and Julia Hartley-Brewer as a bunch of left leaning remainers.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Polling is pretty irrelevant right now.

it’s transient. In the long game come 2024, this will not be an issue in the campaign, I am sure of it. But only my opinion obvs.

If this happened in 2023 or later I would agree. But now.....nah.

There is so much to be done now, Brexit, the economy after covid etc. The Cummings fiasco will be long forgotten, there are major issues ahead.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

You falsely assume politics is governed by the electoral cycle. Johnson's leadership could easily be called into question before then, in which case the Cummings debacle, plus inept Coronavirus response, will enter the game far sooner than 2024.

The Tories love a good knifing of a leader. Will it be Gove, Sunak, Raab? All leaders in waiting watching Boris flounder.

Over 60 Tory MPs on the record calling for DC to go. Easily a higher number off the record.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

How I don’t care how many times you refer to this not being about Brexit when it so clear is.

Insignificant polls mean jack shit. Polls have been wrong and are not reliable factor for accuracy measure of public mood. Isabel Oakshott, last time I saw her tweet had accepted DC’s explanation and suggested the country move forward, I concur.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

I’ve mentioned this before the fact that the media haven’t got their head on a plate is wrecking their heads.

And oh my god listening to question time................

The Stephen Kinnock scenario was brought up, in relation to the Cummings situation, and the Bruce immediately jumped in and justified it because he was doing “shopping” for his dad. Whereas the care of a 4 year old Is far less important.

Even the several of the public participants on QT have said we’re not interested, Move on.......

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Ooer look at the time. Nighty night. :zzz:

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

I do think their poll ratings will recover if there are no other set-backs. I just think this is a setback and these types of scandals accumulate over time impacting the general perception of the Government.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

KEIR STARMER's attack on Boris Johnson's over his decision to stand by his chief political adviser Dominic Cummings massively backfired as Britons called on the Labour leader to fire his own ministers.

BBC viewers took to Twitter to accuse the Labour leader of being a hypocrite.

One viewer said: “Another pointless Keir Starmer sound bite ...Durham police spoke out yea correct NO ACTION.

"Not dealing with Cummings.. hmm Stephen Kinnock got a promotion. Tahir Ali NO Action. Kevan Jones NO ACTION...That's strong leadership Is it Mr Starmer.”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/12...-latest-update

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

It is hypocrisy, but we’ve come expect that From Both sides.

[pedant] Starmer doesn’t have any ministers[/pedant]. But I know what you mean.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

What a strange post. There are no apologies required here unless you want to apologise for calling me "worse than media ****" :) If your tribal loyalties preclude you on commenting on what the situation might look like if this were a Labour Government then that's fine. Disappointing but expected ..

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Thanks for the compliment (and the apology) :)

"I'm not tribal"? Hmmm ..

Seems a fair assessment of your posts, at least the ones I have read. At the risk of venturing off topic, your views on delivering a Hard Brexit at all costs, exactly align with this definition.

Regarding any Labour transgressions of the lockdown rules, of course they should be admonished according to the same rules and guidance that No 10 issued to the country. Much like the Conservative member for Delyn, North Wales:

Police break up illegal lockdown birthday party at Tory MP's house

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

No surprise that the phone hacking *******s at that rag try to link a tory mp to that.

They are separated. He wasn't there. So absolutely nothing to do with him.

Nice try though.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

ianch99 and Sephiroph [asa][/asa]

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

What this whole episode proves is what a weak and talentless PM we have. He can't function without Dominic Cummings. If it had been a minster he'd have been sacked/resigned. The country us being run by someone who is unelected and who thinks they're above the law.

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

Re: Dominic Cummings visited parents during lockdown measures
 

It have taken a back seat if he'd gone. As it is it'll keep coming back again and again, on who is really running the country.

Labour were the only opposition party that wouldn't sign the letter demanding Cummings went, wonder why?