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-   -   General : Changes to Virgin TV (2020) (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33708568)

ScottishSteve 18-05-2020 23:24

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Media Boy (Post 36035452)

[/COLOR]Base on TiVo listings Love Nature HD is still broadcasting on May 27th.

This could mean one of a few things

It’s staying - hope this is the case

Or as it is an international feed the listings may be set up as they would be as the channel continues to broadcast elsewhere.

I’ve seen channels drop off VM in the past with future schedules still there until the last minute.

1andrew1 19-05-2020 01:17

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Itshim (Post 36035567)
A Just looking forward to the day when liberty really take control. And then change the box for everyone from TiVo to theres

Liberty is actually relinquishing control as Liberty Global is putting VM UK into a 50/50 joint venture with O2 UK.

The V6 is a Liberty Global box. VM-O2 will still be buying in technology from Liberty Global. I suspect over time, the software on the V6 will converge with that used by Liberty Global affiliates to take advantage of economies of scale. This won't necessitate a box change.

nialli 19-05-2020 08:05

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Media Boy (Post 36035452)
Look like something will happen on or around May 27th when Sky Documentaries, Sky History, Sky History 2 and Sky Nature launch.

We will know more this coming Tuesday (May 19th) when the TV Listings books will be out at your local shops and Supermarkets.

---------- Post added at 16:05 ---------- Previous post was at 16:04 ----------

Base on TiVo listings Love Nature HD is still broadcasting on May 27th.

TV & Satellite Week listings show Sky Nature and Sky Documentaries being only on Sky and BT at launch

OLD BOY 19-05-2020 10:32

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nialli (Post 36035643)
TV & Satellite Week listings show Sky Nature and Sky Documentaries being only on Sky and BT at launch

I wouldn't be too concerned about that. It's probably not shown as being on Virgin because the publications have not been made aware of the channel numbers yet.

denphone 19-05-2020 10:44

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36035662)
I wouldn't be too concerned about that. It's probably not shown as being on Virgin because the publications have not been made aware of the channel numbers yet.

Indeed l am sure l saw something the other day about the Sky History Channel on TV and below the channels name was the platforms it would be on and Virgin was one of them..

Legendkiller2k 19-05-2020 10:59

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36035666)
Indeed l am sure l saw something the other day about the Sky History Channel on TV and below the channels name was the platforms it would be on and Virgin was one of them..

They will be on virgin from launch ;)

BTs listings are now showing as BTs main tv platform is now NOWTV.

SonicMaster 19-05-2020 11:01

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Has anyone else with Mix TV lost access to the Catch Up content for certain TV channels:

- Comedy Central
- MTV
- E!
- TLC
- Cartoon Network
- Boomerang

I've contacted VM about it and they say it's a problem with our V6 box, so have insisted on sending out an engineer to make a visit.

I think it's far more likely to be that incorrect pack codes/flags have been applied to the content in the VM system.

If other people are experiencing the same problems, maybe I can persuade them not to waste their time sending an engineer, which seems completely unnecessary.

1andrew1 20-05-2020 00:53

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

The BBC is hoping to bring back BBC Three as a regular TV channel, four years after it was taken off air and moved online.
The youth channel, which commissioned hits like Normal People and Fleabag, will also have its budget doubled.
It left linear TV in 2016 to save £30m, and because the corporation said young people were watching more shows online.
The BBC now says it is "considering the case" for returning the channel to "linear television".
A BBC spokesman said "we'd be wrong not to back a service that is doing better than anyone could have ever conceived".
The turnaround will be formally announced as part of the BBC's annual plan on Wednesday, but there was no news about the fate of BBC Four, which has been rumoured for the axe.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-52719883

spiderplant 20-05-2020 11:18

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicMaster (Post 36035669)
Has anyone else with Mix TV lost access to the Catch Up content for certain TV channels:

Nobody?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicMaster (Post 36035669)
I've contacted VM about it and they say it's a problem with our V6 box, so have insisted on sending out an engineer to make a visit.

If you've only lost content for certain channel, it definitely isn't your box. It's probably as you suggest (content wrongly packaged), but might be something wrong that's specific to your account. Does it give an error code, or just a message like "subscribe to watch"?

SonicMaster 20-05-2020 14:14

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36035810)
If you've only lost content for certain channel, it definitely isn't your box. It's probably as you suggest (content wrongly packaged), but might be something wrong that's specific to your account. Does it give an error code, or just a message like "subscribe to watch"?

Just the generic 'Upgrade to watch' and 'Subscribe' messages, no error code.

ScottishSteve 20-05-2020 14:27

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicMaster (Post 36035824)
Just the generic 'Upgrade to watch' and 'Subscribe' messages, no error code.

I think you may find that while the channels are a part of the package that on demand may be reserved for those on higher packages a bit like some HD services.

You may have had them previously following in from the free upgrade of the channels for a month.

Sky for example include 'box sets' to higher pack customers.

The above mentioned channels have HD versions in higher packages therefore it looks likely that is why you will not get catch up from them on the Mix TV pack

SonicMaster 20-05-2020 14:33

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottishSteve (Post 36035827)
I think you may find that while the channels are a part of the package that on demand may be reserved for those on higher packages a bit like some HD services.

You may have had them previously following in from the free upgrade of the channels for a month.

Sky for example include 'box sets' to higher pack customers.

That's incorrect ScottishSteve.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the free channels for a month during lockdown.

I think you are getting Catch Up and Box Sets confused.

Catch Up content is available for all channels included in their packages, so as a Mix TV customer my package includes all of the affected channels, live and in Catch Up.

ScottishSteve 20-05-2020 14:39

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicMaster (Post 36035828)
That's incorrect ScottishSteve.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the free channels for a month during lockdown.

I think you are getting Catch Up and Box Sets confused.

Catch Up content is available for all channels included in their packages, so as a Mix TV customer my package includes all of the affected channels, live and in Catch Up.

Not at all getting the two confused but the catch up service on the above channels may be exclusive to HD subscribers on higher packages.

It may include the linear channels but that doesn’t automatically mean you would get the catch up and on demand content.

The best bet for clarity is to go through to ‘thinking of cancelling’ and tell them this is why.

No engineer visit is going to sort it that’s for sure.

Hope you get to the bottom of it.

SonicMaster 20-05-2020 14:44

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottishSteve (Post 36035829)
Not at all getting the two confused but the catch up service on the above channels may be exclusive to HD subscribers on higher packages.

It may include the linear channels but that doesn’t automatically mean you would get the catch up and on demand content.

The best bet for clarity is to go through to ‘thinking of cancelling’ and tell them this is why.

No engineer visit is going to sort it that’s for sure.

Hope you get to the bottom of it.

Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense.

I have been using the Catch Up service for these channels for many years, it has only stopped working in the last week or so.

Mix TV does include Comedy Central, MTV and TLC in HD.

My package doesn't include Sky's live channels in HD, or other HD versions like FOX HD, but the Catch Up content from those channels is available to me in HD.

ScottishSteve 20-05-2020 14:50

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicMaster (Post 36035831)
Sorry, but that doesn't make any sense.

I have been using the Catch Up service for these channels for many years, it has only stopped working in the last week or so.

Mix TV does include Comedy Central, MTV and TLC in HD.

My package doesn't include Sky's live channels in HD, or other HD versions like FOX HD, but the Catch Up content from those channels is available to me in HD.

I was just trying to offer a suggestion but as you said you used to get them but now don’t it is probably due to the flag changes following on from the free upgrade that someone at their end has been over zealous and knocked your viewing off.

According to the the (un) reliable TV guide on the virgin website MTV & Comedy Central and only available on HD to Full House of Maxit customers.

TLC HD is the only channel that is a part of the Mix packages

Maybe you will find that you are on an old legacy pack at their end and it’s a billing error.

I’m not trying to agitate you but merely try and find a reason behind the problem you are having.

SonicMaster 20-05-2020 17:27

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottishSteve (Post 36035833)
I was just trying to offer a suggestion but as you said you used to get them but now don’t it is probably due to the flag changes following on from the free upgrade that someone at their end has been over zealous and knocked your viewing off.

According to the the (un) reliable TV guide on the virgin website MTV & Comedy Central and only available on HD to Full House of Maxit customers.

TLC HD is the only channel that is a part of the Mix packages

Maybe you will find that you are on an old legacy pack at their end and it’s a billing error.

I’m not trying to agitate you but merely try and find a reason behind the problem you are having.

Yes, unfortunately the Channel Guide on the Virgin Media website is not at all reliable, as Comedy Central HD and MTV HD were added to the Mix TV pack a while ago, when they swapped places with the SD versions on the EPG.

Although the Mix TV pack isn't available to new customers, I'm surprised that no one else on here seems to have it.

Someone at VM being over zealous and removing the Catch Up access from a few channels sounds about right. It's a shame that there is no way to contact the people that manage the system.

BenMcr 20-05-2020 17:37

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
The question is though whether it is an error as such, or is now the correct behaviour due to the SD > HD swap and the contracts that Virgin Media have with the providers for the HD channels as they do seem to be treated as separate at times.

cheekyangus 20-05-2020 17:41

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Those channels still have Catch-up on legacy Fun tier. Probably a mistake with pack codes.

SonicMaster 20-05-2020 19:03

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36035842)
The question is though whether it is an error as such, or is now the correct behaviour due to the SD > HD swap and the contracts that Virgin Media have with the providers for the HD channels as they do seem to be treated as separate at times.

That would be completely illogical.

Catch Up has always been available for the channels included in your pack, in SD or HD where available.

I don't see why VM would suddenly change a fundamental feature of their TV product.

---------- Post added at 19:03 ---------- Previous post was at 19:01 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 36035843)
Those channels still have Catch-up on legacy Fun tier. Probably a mistake with pack codes.

That's reassuring. Any idea how to report it? I've tried doing it on 150 and they have confirmed that I should still have access, but they are convinced it's just a problem with the box.

ScottishSteve 20-05-2020 20:28

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicMaster (Post 36035849)

That's reassuring. Any idea how to report it? I've tried doing it on 150 and they have confirmed that I should still have access, but they are convinced it's just a problem with the box.

Maybe if they continue to insist that it is a box problem, the field engineer will be able to escalate it at their end.

A bit like if there is a local outage they will look into it once an appointment is booked.

I understand that at this time the last thing you want is unnecessary visits to your home but booking an appointment may escalate it.

Another thing you could try is the Virgin Media community forum. They are quite responsive on that.

Fingers crossed.

SonicMaster 20-05-2020 20:36

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottishSteve (Post 36035861)
Maybe if they continue to insist that it is a box problem, the field engineer will be able to escalate it at their end.

A bit like if there is a local outage they will look into it once an appointment is booked.

I understand that at this time the last thing you want is unnecessary visits to your home but booking an appointment may escalate it.

Another thing you could try is the Virgin Media community forum. They are quite responsive on that.

Fingers crossed.

Thanks.

The engineer is coming tomorrow, so hopefully once they've verified that the box is fine, it will get escalated, such a shame to have to waste their time, but seems like the only way with VM.

ScottishSteve 20-05-2020 20:38

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicMaster (Post 36035862)
Thanks.

The engineer is coming tomorrow, so hopefully once they've verified that the box is fine, it will get escalated, such a shame to have to waste their time, but seems like the only way with VM.

The irony Is for a communications company their communication skills are meh...

SonicMaster 20-05-2020 20:46

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottishSteve (Post 36035864)
The irony Is for a communications company their communication skills are meh...

It's such a shame. I've been a loyal customer for so many years but they don't make it easy.

The customer services teams, as friendly as they are, have so little knowledge / understanding of their products that the customer knows more than they do. It isn't their fault, it's a lack of training.

In an ideal world, VM would simply have an email address to report technical issues such as this, like they do with the EPG, so that customers could get any problems raised directly with the teams that can fix them.

spiderplant 20-05-2020 20:49

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicMaster (Post 36035849)
That's reassuring. Any idea how to report it?

I'll get it sorted.

cheekyangus 21-05-2020 08:32

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
JJ20X on Forum Box has posted an info slate screenshot for the Lifestyle channel moves, moves that have actually already happened overnight (I checked).

https://www.forumbox.co.uk/forum/thr...4462#post94462

Food Network moves from 278 to 285
HGTV moves from 279 to 286
Home & Health moves from 280 to 287
Discovery Shed moves from 281 to 288
Travel Channel moves from 282 to 289
HGTV+1 moves from 283 to 290
Home & Health+1 moves from 284 to 291
GOD moves from 287 to 292
Horse & Country moves from 298 to 293

So most have moved to higher numbers as you can see.

---------- Post added at 08:32 ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 ----------

Oh, and as I typed the above JJ20X has said those mysterious Channel A HD and Channel B HD have been given flags consistent with Sky HD Entertainment channels, so consistent with what many thought.

ScottishSteve 21-05-2020 09:24

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
This has happened exactly a week before the new channels launch to give time for the changes to be notice.

The signs are certainly looking good to get the new channels on launch.

Certainly changed times these days.

SonicMaster 21-05-2020 10:16

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36035867)
I'll get it sorted.

That would be brilliant. Thank you!

spiderplant 21-05-2020 18:46

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicMaster (Post 36035908)
That would be brilliant. Thank you!

Well I'm afraid I have bad news. It's working as intended. Mix pack no longer has access to Catch Up for those channels.

SonicMaster 21-05-2020 19:51

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36035979)
Well I'm afraid I have bad news. It's working as intended. Mix pack no longer has access to Catch Up for those channels.

That's crazy, and not what VM have told me, both the CS agent and the engineer that visited today told me it's not my package or box, but a fault.

Why would they remove Catch Up from Mix TV for those particular 6 channels?

It seems completely illogical. For example, E! is supplied by Sky, and Mix TV includes Catch Up for every other Sky channel.

If they remove Catch Up for other channels like Sky One and FOX I think I'll seriously consider switching provider.

I'll call them tomorrow to make a complaint, as removing fundamental TV services without informing customers is not acceptable.

It's no wonder that VM is now the UK's most complained about pay TV operator:

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2020...y-tv-operator/

denphone 21-05-2020 19:57

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicMaster (Post 36035995)
That's crazy, and not what VM have told me, both the CS agent and the engineer that visited today told me it's not my package or box, but a fault.

Why would they remove Catch Up from Mix TV for those particular 6 channels?

It seems completely illogical. For example, E! is supplied by Sky, and Mix TV includes Catch Up for every other Sky channel.

If they remove Catch Up for other channels like Sky One and FOX I think I'll seriously consider switching provider.

I'll call them tomorrow to make a complaint, as removing fundamental TV services without informing customers is not acceptable.

It's no wonder that VM is now the UK's most complained about pay TV operator:

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2020...y-tv-operator/

Actually Virgin are not the UK' most complained pay TV operator as that award goes to BT.

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/bt.com

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.virginmedia.com

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.sky.com

SonicMaster 21-05-2020 21:05

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36035998)
Actually Virgin are not the UK' most complained pay TV operator as that award goes to BT.

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/bt.com

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.virginmedia.com

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.sky.com

I think you must have missed the link, here it is again:

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2020...y-tv-operator/

Quote:

Virgin Media has claimed the unfortunate title of being the most complained about pay TV operator in the UK, according to Ofcom.

The media regulator has published its Q4 2019 consumer complaints data, and while consumers have had less truck with operators across the board the Liberty Global brand is still the pick of the pack.

According to the data provided by Ofcom, Virgin Media saw an average of nine complaints per 100,000 customers in the quarter in regards to its TV operations. By contrast, Sky TV was the least complained about with only an average of two complaints per 100,000 customers.

TalkTalk was the second most complained about with eight complaints per 100,000 customers – slightly higher than BT which saw an average of seven complaints per 100,000 customers.

Legendkiller2k 22-05-2020 02:14

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36035998)
Actually Virgin are not the UK' most complained pay TV operator as that award goes to BT.

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/bt.com

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.virginmedia.com

https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.sky.com

Do BT even have their own tv service anymore? They sold their soul to SKY didn't they?
As for VMTV less said about those clowns the better.

---------- Post added at 02:14 ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicMaster (Post 36036012)
I think you must have missed the link, here it is again:

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2020...y-tv-operator/

You should know by now mate Virgin media can do no wrong in some peoples eyes.

ozsat 22-05-2020 04:17

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
BT tv still goes with the option of adding NOW tv to the EPG.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendkiller2k (Post 36036033)
Do BT even have their own tv service anymore? They sold their soul to SKY didn't they?


denphone 22-05-2020 05:08

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendkiller2k (Post 36036033)
Do BT even have their own tv service anymore? They sold their soul to SKY didn't they?
As for VMTV less said about those clowns the better.

---------- Post added at 02:14 ---------- Previous post was at 02:13 ----------



You should know by now mate Virgin media can do no wrong in some peoples eyes.

They all have their weaknesses and strengths and Virgin Media are no different in that respect.

Legendkiller2k 22-05-2020 11:43

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36036036)
They all have their weaknesses and strengths and Virgin Media are no different in that respect.

You just said exactly what i've been telling people for ages mate, every tv provider has their good and bad.

---------- Post added at 11:43 ---------- Previous post was at 11:42 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozsat (Post 36036035)
BT tv still goes with the option of adding NOW tv to the EPG.

Thanks mate.

Itshim 22-05-2020 16:04

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicMaster (Post 36036012)
I think you must have missed the link, here it is again:

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2020...y-tv-operator/

Waiting for virgin media rep gto call around and hold a gun my head to sign a contract. O yes it's MY choice . Vote with your credit card .other choices are available!

Hugh 22-05-2020 16:33

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicMaster (Post 36036012)
I think you must have missed the link, here it is again:

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2020...y-tv-operator/

Here’s the source article - ironically, most complaints were about how complaints were handled...

Quote:

Virgin Media remained the most complained-about pay-TV provider, with handling of complaints being the primary reason.

RichardCoulter 22-05-2020 22:02

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36036096)
Here’s the source article - ironically, most complaints were about how complaints were handled...

I can believe that. A neighbour wrote to the CEO on my advice because frontline staff were giving him the runaround.

After waiting ages for a reply he got a holding email and then a letter arrived. It was simply copy/paste waffle and the last sentence actually said he had to go to their regulator and if he emailed them again they would 'consider disconnecting all his services'!!!

I was gobsmacked. As he's out of contract he's gone to Sky to save them the bother; do they really expect people to tolerate this :shocked:

ozsat 23-05-2020 07:26

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Most companies will rather loose a customer who winges straight to the top when the companies own investigations show the complaints are unfounded or the customer has not followed procedures.
Their compaints team will deal with issues and take any action they deem necessary.

trevrpb 23-05-2020 12:27

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
[QUOTE=newapollo;36030017]I'm on the Ultimate Oomph package and have been credited £36.25 for Sky and BT Sports from 23rd March.

...........
Was really silly of me, I never got round to doing this when I should have done, despite advising a friend of mine to do it when it was first initiated as he was under the impression only Sky were doing this and Virgin wasn't offering it.

I'm on the Ultimate pack as well and I've only just today submitted my request to pause both Sky and BT Sports so have paid at least 2months that I could have had paused. Not sure how much longer this is going to be available for now and will obviously depend on Sky and BT as to how much longer.

TrevP

nomadking 23-05-2020 12:40

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
A factor for VM with TV problems is the very nature of the distribution process. Each area of the country has equipment and connections, each of which can fail.

Itshim 23-05-2020 14:00

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36036096)
Here’s the source article - ironically, most complaints were about how complaints were handled...

My Guess is that in the past virgin used to give in to any moaner , discounts etc. Me included .Now they are less inclined do do so .That brings the moaners out in hoards (no names but guess most here can think of one or two) as l said before vote with your credit/standing order. Moaners try asking your utilities company of a lower price at the end of your contact.

Media Boy UK 24-05-2020 15:37

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
TiVo is reporting that Challenge +1 (Channel 230) is set to close on June 1st at 6am.

newapollo 25-05-2020 13:16

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Media Boy (Post 36036609)
TiVo is reporting that Challenge +1 (Channel 230) is set to close on June 1st at 6am.

According to TV Guide channel lists Challenge +1 will not be closing on 1st June. They are still showing broadcast listings for the channel on Virgin, Sky and Freesat

cheekyangus 25-05-2020 13:43

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by newapollo (Post 36036845)
According to TV Guide channel lists Challenge +1 will not be closing on 1st June. They are still showing broadcast listings for the channel on Virgin, Sky and Freesat

It may only be closing on Cable. MB didn't say it was closing on all platforms, simply report the message it shows currently on the EPG on VM.

Sometimes these closing notices on the EPG come to nothing, but they are correct more often than not.

OLD BOY 25-05-2020 14:29

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Sky Nature and Sky Documentaries launch on Virgin this coming Wednesday. Am I the only one who finds it frustrating that VM often do not amend their EPG to reflect new channels until launch day? There are programmes on both channels I want to record but cannot do so until they appear on the EPG.

ozsat 25-05-2020 15:05

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
They are not on Sky EPG either - and it is their channels.

On VM you can record programmes not in the guide by using a wishlist - something not possible on Sky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36036856)
Sky Nature and Sky Documentaries launch on Virgin this coming Wednesday. Am I the only one who finds it frustrating that VM often do not amend their EPG to reflect new channels until launch day? There are programmes on both channels I want to record but cannot do so until they appear on the EPG.


OLD BOY 25-05-2020 15:24

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ozsat (Post 36036866)
They are not on Sky EPG either - and it is their channels.

On VM you can record programmes not in the guide by using a wishlist - something not possible on Sky.

Yes, that's true. Still annoying, though.

nialli 26-05-2020 07:54

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36036856)
Sky Nature and Sky Documentaries launch on Virgin this coming Wednesday. Am I the only one who finds it frustrating that VM often do not amend their EPG to reflect new channels until launch day? There are programmes on both channels I want to record but cannot do so until they appear on the EPG.

Still not given Virgin channel numbers in today’s new editions of TV listings mags

denphone 26-05-2020 08:40

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36036875)
Yes, that's true. Still annoying, though.

Well it might annoy you OB but its nothing in the great scheme of things.:p:

vincerooney 26-05-2020 12:44

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Are we just getting Sky nature and sky history? I see the sky documentary appears to be a sky exclusive based on google not mentioning anything about virgin media?

newapollo 26-05-2020 13:44

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Hi Vince. We already have the History channels, it's just Sky renaming them.
There are currently 4 channels testing on VM, so it's looking like we will receive the Nature and Documentary channels in both standard and HD from lunchtime tomorrow.

Aguero9320 26-05-2020 22:29

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 36036850)
It may only be closing on Cable. MB didn't say it was closing on all platforms, simply report the message it shows currently on the EPG on VM.

Sometimes these closing notices on the EPG come to nothing, but they are correct more often than not.

I’ve gone on Sky’s website for EPG listings on 1st June. Challenge +1 is actually missing. Sky might be closing it completely.

ScottishSteve 27-05-2020 00:30

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
All the lifestyle channel change slates that went on last Thursday have now been removed

newapollo 27-05-2020 00:41

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Sky Documentaries HD now on channel 277, and Sky Nature HD on channel 279
History and History2 need logos updating but are now named with the Sky prefix

ScottishSteve 27-05-2020 00:45

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
History and History 2 have been renamed SkyHist HD & SkyHist2 HD

ScottishSteve 27-05-2020 09:51

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
It is great to see that the channels have adopted the on screen logo (DOG) for 10 seconds like the rest of the Sky family of channels

This will give them the edge over the huge thing on screen on Love Nature, albeit they will have ad breaks.

Aguero9320 27-05-2020 10:33

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by newapollo (Post 36037215)
Sky Documentaries HD now on channel 277, and Sky Nature HD on channel 279
History and History2 need logos updating but are now named with the Sky prefix

I haven't got Documentaries or Nature yet. I really want to watch Mcmillions tonight.

johnasimmons 27-05-2020 10:40

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aguero9320 (Post 36037250)
I haven't got Documentaries or Nature yet. I really want to watch Mcmillions tonight.

Maybe reboot your box...

SonicMaster 27-05-2020 12:28

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Virgin Media's press release:

Virgin Media adds Sky Nature and Sky Documentaries channels

27 May 2020

- Virgin TV customers can now watch the two new channels

- Both channels will show award-winning documentaries and top nature programmes

Virgin Media has added two of Sky’s latest channels to its TV platform: Sky Nature and Sky Documentaries.

From today (Wednesday 27 May), both channels will be available in HD to all Maxit TV (previously named Full House) customers at no extra cost.

Sky Documentaries brings together world class documentaries from award-winning film makers across a number of genres.

This includes the Hillary Clinton biopic Hillary; scam story McMillions; Muhammad Ali tale Ali & Cavett: The Tale of The Tapes; music documentary Wu-Tang Clan: Of Mics and Men; and The Plastic Nile, which looks at the impact of pollution on the world’s longest river.

The second new channel, Sky Nature, is dedicated to exploring the beauty and wonder of the natural world. In addition to family favourites from David Attenborough, exciting new documentaries Wild Animal Babies; Gangs of Lemur Island; Africa’s Underwater Wonder and many others will all be available to watch.

David Bouchier, Chief Digital Entertainment Officer at Virgin Media, said:

“We are delighted to be adding these two new powerful Sky channels for our premium TV customers. With some of the best factual and nature programming on the planet, these channels offer diverting stories and an escape into the natural world at this difficult time.”

Note to editors

Sky Documentaries (channel 277) and Sky Nature (channel 279) is available to all Maxit TV (previously named Full House) customers at no extra cost.

https://www.virginmedia.com/corporat...aries-channels

muppetman11 27-05-2020 14:13

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Gangs of Lemur Island is looking good in HDR hopefully they'll add lots more HDR content including live Sport at some stage.

SonicMaster 27-05-2020 18:51

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Channel Guide PDFs updated with the new Sky channels and lifestyle numbers, none of the other mistakes have been corrected:

Desktop:
https://www.virginmedia.com/content/...May27_2020.pdf

Mobile:
https://www.virginmedia.com/content/...May27_2020.pdf

Personal Picks details also updated:

https://www.virginmedia.com/content/...s_May_2020.pdf

carravetta 27-05-2020 18:59

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Really impressed with Sky Documentaries

Some great documentaries to get my teeth into

ScottishSteve 27-05-2020 19:07

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36037282)
Gangs of Lemur Island is looking good in HDR hopefully they'll add lots more HDR content including live Sport at some stage.

Where are you finding the HDR content?

Legendkiller2k 27-05-2020 19:16

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottishSteve (Post 36037331)
Where are you finding the HDR content?

On SKYq not sure if vm have it yet.

ScottishSteve 27-05-2020 19:40

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendkiller2k (Post 36037333)
On SKYq not sure if vm have it yet.

That was my thoughts as no Sky UHD content has arrived yet

muppetman11 27-05-2020 20:48

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottishSteve (Post 36037331)
Where are you finding the HDR content?

Apologies Steve yes on Sky Q although it could appear when Skys deal for UHD kicks in with Virgin.

ScottishSteve 27-05-2020 22:24

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36037340)
Apologies Steve yes on Sky Q although it could appear when Skys deal for UHD kicks in with Virgin.

Thanks for confirming

I thought the day had finally arrived lol

ScottishSteve 28-05-2020 09:25

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
According to the EPG Sony Crime Channel will be no longer available from 6am on Wed 10th June

Don’t know if it’s a mistake or not but it has had a history of closing down.

cheekyangus 28-05-2020 10:57

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottishSteve (Post 36037378)
According to the EPG Sony Crime Channel will be no longer available from 6am on Wed 10th June

Don’t know if it’s a mistake or not but it has had a history of closing down.

No, but it has been basically showing the same two (?) shows for quite a while now, so they were probably either parking it until they could think of something else to do with it, or waiting until some contract ended.

It has been unlisted on the VM TV Edit guide for quite a while now, so maybe VM knew something and acted far too earlier.

Sky is the only other place it broadcasts these days, it's no longer on Freeview or Freesat.

ScottishSteve 28-05-2020 11:00

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 36037393)
No, but it has been basically showing the same two (?) shows for quite a while now, so they were probably either parking it until they could think of something else to do with it, or waiting until some contract ended.

It has been unlisted on the VM TV Edit guide for quite a while now, so maybe VM knew something and acted far too earlier.

Sky is the only other place it broadcasts these days, it's no longer on Freeview or Freesat.

Even with the movie channels from Sony who manufacture some of the best HD & UHD TV’s I can’t understand why none if their services have gone HD.

It’s so half hearted and downgrades the brand.

cheekyangus 28-05-2020 11:11

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
The ancient ex-Sky box I just checked only has EPG data until the 4th June, so I can't confirm the Sony Crime Channel closure.

---------- Post added at 11:09 ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottishSteve (Post 36037395)
Even with the movie channels from Sony who manufacture some of the best HD & UHD TV’s I can’t understand why none if their services have gone HD.

It’s so half hearted and downgrades the brand.

Virtually all Sony's divisions work separately from one another. They keep suggesting they will work together better, but they tend to be short lived partnerships.

The remaining channels are all Free-To-Air, so I'd imagine they don't think the numbers (£) stack up yet. I wouldn't be surprised if most of their viewers are on Freeview and that platform doesn't have any readily accessible space for HD that isn't temporary (i.e. COM7 and COM8).

---------- Post added at 11:11 ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 ----------

Sony Channel +1 will probably move up the VM EPG if it's true.

SonicMaster 28-05-2020 11:55

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Despite reaching an agreement with Sky for the live Sky Documentaries and Sky Nature channels, it would appear that VM haven't got the Catch Up or Box Sets content for their On Demand service.

Sky and NOW TV includes hundreds of hours of documentaries and wildlife programmes, but there's nothing on VM so far.

ozsat 28-05-2020 13:55

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
It is not a mistake. Their listings said the 9th June was their last day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScottishSteve (Post 36037378)
According to the EPG Sony Crime Channel will be no longer available from 6am on Wed 10th June

Don’t know if it’s a mistake or not but it has had a history of closing down.


fox35 28-05-2020 13:57

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SonicMaster (Post 36037408)
Despite reaching an agreement with Sky for the live Sky Documentaries and Sky Nature channels, it would appear that VM haven't got the Catch Up or Box Sets content for their On Demand service.

Sky and NOW TV includes hundreds of hours of documentaries and wildlife programmes, but there's nothing on VM so far.

I would much prefer we had the Catch Up/On Demand content over the live channels instead. Also, I wish we had the full Catch Up/On Demand versions of the apps for all the tv players instead of the fastly inferior trimmed down "edited" versions VM provide and cheekily charge us for them. Even the full content versions of the tv player apps are available on Freeview.
VM used to lead the way with its ingenious Catch Up and On Demand services years ago, sadly this service has become quite dire in comparison to the other providers. VM need to realise that live linear tv is becoming more obsolete now more than ever with the younger generations, who are the future subscribers and bill payers, and invest more in On Demand services if they are to survive.

cheekyangus 28-05-2020 14:26

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ozsat (Post 36037424)
It is not a mistake. Their listings said the 9th June was their last day.

Thanks ozsat. :)

OLD BOY 28-05-2020 19:58

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fox35 (Post 36037425)
I would much prefer we had the Catch Up/On Demand content over the live channels instead. Also, I wish we had the full Catch Up/On Demand versions of the apps for all the tv players instead of the fastly inferior trimmed down "edited" versions VM provide and cheekily charge us for them. Even the full content versions of the tv player apps are available on Freeview.
VM used to lead the way with its ingenious Catch Up and On Demand services years ago, sadly this service has become quite dire in comparison to the other providers. VM need to realise that live linear tv is becoming more obsolete now more than ever with the younger generations, who are the future subscribers and bill payers, and invest more in On Demand services if they are to survive.

Virgin negotiated the full version of My5 last year (although it has yet to appear).
I agree with you that VM really need to take this more seriously and get a reputation for being the destination to view all players and streamers. Otherwise, Virgin will always be trailing Sky in the popularity stakes. I don't understand why they keep settling for second best.

Raider999 28-05-2020 22:20

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36037517)
Virgin negotiated the full version of My5 last year (although it has yet to appear).
I agree with you that VM really need to take this more seriously and get a reputation for being the destination to view all players and streamers. Otherwise, Virgin will always be trailing Sky in the popularity stakes. I don't understand why they keep settling for second best.

Money???

fox35 29-05-2020 07:03

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 36037549)
Money???

Indeed. However, this wasn't always the case regarding the Catch Up streaming services. VM used to be light years ahead of all the other providers with its On Demand content, Sky couldn't come nowhere near close, partially due to Sky been unable to provide true On Demand through the internet and relied on downloaded content through the dish. Yet whilst I accept Sky and other providers can now also use internet connectivity and may be able to outbid VM for content on their streaming services, VM have a far superior broadband internet product and V6 box to compete and supply better offerings including the full versions of My5, All4 and UKTV Players, and as OB pointed out, it should be the goto home for all the big US content and movie players too, Disney+ included, aswell as the home for all live sports on demand. The apps section on the V6 box should be positively bursting with every streaming app available similar to Roku and the Fire tv sticks.

OLD BOY 29-05-2020 10:09

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 36037549)
Money???

Well, they will make more money with more subscribers! Virgin Media should be the company in the public perception that is renowned for its choice of on demand services.

Everything on one box. A very popular refrain with an ever increasing choice of streamers available.

Raider999 29-05-2020 10:16

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36037592)
Well, they will make more money with more subscribers! Virgin Media should be the company in the public perception that is renowned for its choice of on demand services.

Everything on one box. A very popular refrain with an ever increasing choice of streamers available.


I was referring to the amount Virgin are being asked to pay to have the service on their platform not the amount Virgin charge their customers.

cheekyangus 29-05-2020 13:26

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
VM are launching a new TV channel. I'd imagine it's temporary.

"We're launching a new TV fitness channel with Olympic hero @Daley_thompson!
Get Moving launches on Virgin TV on channel 997 on Monday from 6.30am! "

Source: https://twitter.com/VirginMediaCorp/...14357455151104

Isn't this on On-demand already? Vague recollection of seeing it there.

---------- Post added at 12:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 ----------

I had a look and there is indeed a Get Moving folder in On-demand. There are 3 subfolders: one for each of Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced levels. These have 23 lessons each.

So this new channel is likely a linear broadcast version of those.

---------- Post added at 13:26 ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 ----------

Here is the press release that was linked to on that Tweet with more details.
https://www.virginmedia.com/corporat...itness-channel

Media Boy UK 31-05-2020 16:02

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Is Pick +1 and Sky One +1 set to launch on Virgin Media?

JJ20X has been reporting that two channels are 'testing' called "Channel A SD" and "Channel B SD".

Media Boy HQ feel Virgin Media may have got the rights to broadcast Sky One +1 and Pick +1 from as soon as tomorrow (June 1st) to make up for Sky UK axing Challenge +1.

cheekyangus 31-05-2020 17:02

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Media Boy (Post 36037853)
Is Pick +1 and Sky One +1 set to launch on Virgin Media?

JJ20X has been reporting that two channels are 'testing' called "Channel A SD" and "Channel B SD".

Media Boy HQ feel Virgin Media may have got the rights to broadcast Sky One +1 and Pick +1 from as soon as tomorrow (June 1st) to make up for Sky UK axing Challenge +1.

More likely to be Sky Documentaries SD and Sky Nature SD for those of us on lower tiers to be able to see those channels. VM left gap in EPG numbering after all.

Media Boy UK 31-05-2020 17:10

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 36037857)
More likely to be Sky Documentaries SD and Sky Nature SD for those of us on lower tiers to be able to see those channels. VM left gap in EPG numbering after all.

If it was Sky Documentaries and Sky Nature SD Channel why did they NOT launch when they HD Channel launch last Wednesday?

We think Sky did give Sky Documentaries and Sky Nature SD Channels but with Sky axing Challenge +1 tomorrow Virgin ask for Sky One +1 and Pick +1 instead.

Channels 278 and 280 has been left free due to Virgin has feel Sky may launch Sky Documentaries +1 and Sky Nature +1 if the viewing numbers are high.

Dave42 31-05-2020 23:10

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
still no news on the sky UHD channels

nodrogd 31-05-2020 23:29

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 36037610)
VM are launching a new TV channel. I'd imagine it's temporary.

"We're launching a new TV fitness channel with Olympic hero @Daley_thompson!
Get Moving launches on Virgin TV on channel 997 on Monday from 6.30am! "

Source: https://twitter.com/VirginMediaCorp/...14357455151104

Isn't this on On-demand already? Vague recollection of seeing it there.

---------- Post added at 12:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 ----------

I had a look and there is indeed a Get Moving folder in On-demand. There are 3 subfolders: one for each of Beginner, Intermediate and Advanced levels. These have 23 lessons each.

So this new channel is likely a linear broadcast version of those.

---------- Post added at 13:26 ---------- Previous post was at 12:03 ----------

Here is the press release that was linked to on that Tweet with more details.
https://www.virginmedia.com/corporat...itness-channel

It is a linear broadcast of these on channel 997. The programmes will be looped several times a day.

ScottishSteve 01-06-2020 11:52

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Media Boy (Post 36037853)

Media Boy HQ feel Virgin Media may have

Sorry MB every time you post that you 'feel' it makes me wonder if you have some sort of sixth sense for all things VM

Always makes me smile :)

RichardCoulter 01-06-2020 13:30

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Challenge +1 was closed down early on VM. It was supposed to close at 6am, but a close down slate was being radiated by at least 5am. The Sky feed was still broadcasting at approximately 9am, so they still had access to the feed.

Sony Crime Channel will close at 6am on 10/6/20.

SonicMaster 01-06-2020 20:01

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
For those with Mix TV, I've found a workaround to the lack of Catch Up for Comedy Central, MTV and TLC on the V6. It's still working on Virgin TV Go! It's not ideal, but it's something.

vincerooney 02-06-2020 01:26

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quick question- is the CNN channel on virgin media the US version or international version? if its the latter whats the difference exactly? Sometimes we get the comedy gold wolf blitzer and sometimes presenters with english accents so i can never keep up...

Also another random question why is NBC news called MSNBC news? it reminds me of MSN messenger back in the 90s and early 00s. I assume this is definitely an international version of american news since it goes through bizarre money markets worldwide at times...

Final question- on now tv (which i got on the cheap) i have a ton of stuff to watch like curb your enthusiasm S1-10. but on v6 its not. now i know curb was on sky atlantic but since its now on sky comedy i would have thought the "on demand" function would have moved over now we have curb on sky comedy

punkrock101 02-06-2020 07:00

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 36038001)
Also another random question why is NBC news called MSNBC news? it reminds me of MSN messenger back in the 90s and early 00s. I assume this is definitely an international version of american news since it goes through bizarre money markets worldwide at times...

My understanding of the MSNBC name is that it was joint venture between Microsoft and NBC. Microsoft have nothing to do with it now but they still retained the name.

cheekyangus 02-06-2020 10:10

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
It's the International version of CNN. More focus on non-US stories being the theoretical difference.

japitts 02-06-2020 10:30

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
I've not seen it mentioned yet, but it looks like Channel 4 & More 4 CatchUp has now gone fully HD and is also using the IP platform. ITV seems to have moved to HD a few weeks ago.

cheekyangus 02-06-2020 10:43

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by japitts (Post 36038028)
I've not seen it mentioned yet, but it looks like Channel 4 & More 4 CatchUp has now gone fully HD and is also using the IP platform. ITV seems to have moved to HD a few weeks ago.

Interesting. Many thanks japitts.

I still have E4 HD and More4 HD last time I looked too, and they aren't normally on my TV tier, so maybe something is changing. There was that accidental email/website info release that mentioned All4 app alongside Pluto and My5 recently, maybe Channel 4 have a new VM deal?

OLD BOY 02-06-2020 14:25

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 36038001)
Final question- on now tv (which i got on the cheap) i have a ton of stuff to watch like curb your enthusiasm S1-10. but on v6 its not. now i know curb was on sky atlantic but since its now on sky comedy i would have thought the "on demand" function would have moved over now we have curb on sky comedy

We are still waiting for the enhanced on demand content from Sky following the deal with between VM and Sky last year. That included UHD content as well. I cannot imagine what they are waiting for.

denphone 02-06-2020 14:34

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36038051)
We are still waiting for the enhanced on demand content from Sky following the deal with between VM and Sky last year. That included UHD content as well. I cannot imagine what they are waiting for.

It might have been stipulated in the agreed deal between them that it starts on a certain set date OB.

muppetman11 02-06-2020 14:40

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36038051)
We are still waiting for the enhanced on demand content from Sky following the deal with between VM and Sky last year. That included UHD content as well. I cannot imagine what they are waiting for.

Its the one of the main reasons I've stayed with Sky , Cable once led with its On Demand but not now.

OLD BOY 02-06-2020 23:03

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36038057)
Its the one of the main reasons I've stayed with Sky , Cable once led with its On Demand but not now.

It may change, muppetman, but I agree with your comment.

I still prefer Virgin Media, but as ever, I am keeping this under review.

I note Sky still doesn't have Amazon Prime, which is important to me.

Legendkiller2k 02-06-2020 23:09

Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2020)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36038127)
It may change, muppetman, but I agree with your comment.

I still prefer Virgin Media, but as ever, I am keeping this under review.

I note Sky still doesn't have Amazon Prime, which is important to me.


Amazon prime is a odd one BT, Plusnet and Talktalk have it yet vm and SKY don't. One suspects that will change in time though.


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