Re: Brexit discussion
 

Inflation is around 3%, as long as your wages have gone up by that much you're holding even. If not, and most people's wages haven't, then you're losing ground.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Depends in the causes of the insurance and virgin media are but in part inflation due to the drop in the pound will be factored into price rises like that.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Would it help if it was written on the side of a bus?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well the NHS head honcho believes those promises written on the side of a bus should be met in full in his speech later on today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-41908302

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes I follow these explanations, but insurance companies increase your renewal every year, and companies akin to VM raise their prices (sometimes more than) once a year. These increases would happen with or without Brexit, yet Brexit is always brought into any discussion about higher costs of living. If the remain vote had won we would still be seeing these increases in the cost of living, as has happened since . . . well I'm an old man now :)

Brexit will cause problems, but let's not use it as a bashing stick to explain why people are (seemingly)* worse off than last year.

* eg. if you buy a new 'top of the range' iphone every year, that's probably £700+ that you're out of pocket . . .

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Oh please, is that the best you can do ? :rolleyes:

You remainers put it where you like, it was still BS, the 350M, figure was misleading but not totally untrue, we do pay a hefty membership fee.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It would be nice if HMG gave us some sort of indication what they plan to o with that hefty membership fee once we're not paying our subs any more (whatever the true figure). Maybe they could put that info on the side of a bus.

Cheers

Dave

Re: Brexit discussion
 

We need to leave first.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

They won't do that as Grim as obfuscating the true facts of everything involving Brexit to put it bluntly is one of their favourite tricks in hoodwinking the public.

---------- Post added at 12:21 ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 ----------

March 2019 or so she has told us.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

We’re being one sided again, the hoodwinking occurred on the remain side as well.

It certainly feels like Groundhog Day today again.....

Re: Brexit discussion
 

l did not deny that but we are in the processes of Brexit now and my sentiment of HMG hoodwinking the public and not telling us the full and true facts still applies.

---------- Post added at 12:55 ---------- Previous post was at 12:54 ----------

l try not be one sided like some..

Re: Brexit discussion
 

But that's only if the remainers accept that there will be NO transitional period. Otherwise we'll have to keep sending £billions to Brussels for no reward. i.e. kicking the can down the road.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

But at the same time, we’re still being told, people did not know what we were voting for, it was straight forward question to me with a box at the the side of ‘leave the EU.’

And because some thought the wrong result occurred, they’re calling for another referendum. Pathetic.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

l knew what l was voting for and thus accepted the referendum result without hesitation but hence since then it has been a complete trail of lies and deception from HMG as they are certainly not telling the public the full facts and truth of the full consequences of what Brexit entails unless you think they are Mick?.

---------- Post added at 13:30 ---------- Previous post was at 13:28 ----------

Yes l certainly agree that calling for another referendum is the domain of a sore loser.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I don't think it's the only reason insurance companies raise their prices but inflation will push prices up across the board just because that's the nature of inflation.

---------- Post added at 14:24 ---------- Previous post was at 14:20 ----------

Many Leavers in the Government would accept continuing payments for single market access so long as they had control of immigration and left the jurisdiction of the ECJ. There problem has never really been about the money.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Ah, the old one foot in one foot out that remainers seem to think is an alternative.

Dream on, there is no way the EU will allow that.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No they won't allow it. just pointing out the money is nothing in the scheme of things.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

There money is very much at the heart of the scheme things, the EU negotiators won't move forward until the money matter is settled.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

'the' money being the £350 million.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes, one of the reasons so many countries in the EU have suffered so much. Germany loves the Euro because it keeps their exports far cheaper than would be the case if they had retained the DM. Of course the likes of Greece, Spain, Italy, Portugal etc. would benefit from being able to revalue their currencies and set their own interest rates but they can't. They suffer whilst Germany exports more...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It was a big fat lie, no more, no less. A lie on the side of the bus and a lie perpetuated at the time and since the referendum. Anyone who tried to call out this lie was shouting down as 'Project Fear' doom monger.

Worked though....

Speaking of lies, I see David Davies is suggesting that there aren't 58 impact assessments after all - https://twitter.com/faisalislam/stat...02263049744385 So we have a few possibilities...

• The reports do exist but David Davies is suggesting they don't which is a lie
• The reports don't exist but Davies previously suggested they did, which is a lie

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Oh, the information certainly exists. The Govt. just don't want the public to see the real impacts of Brexit. It's for our own good, it would only depress us....

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I agree 100% that the information exists unless there is a staggering level of incompetence by HMG. As us 'remoaners' have been told we are wrong so many times about Brexit being a potential disaster, I would have thought our pro-Brexit friends would be shouting from the rooftops to see these documents to prove us wrong.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You really need to get over this. Compare a statement on the side of a bus issued by a campaign group (NOT even a party, let alone a government) to the official diet of lies and doom fed to us by our PM and Chancellor of the time and their buddies like Obama, including all the media coverage they got and the letter they sent sent to every household explaining how awful it would all be. Sorry but no matter how many times you try to assert that the difference between the actual figure and the quoted £350m pw was the decisive factor, the lies told by both sides do not compare.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The remainers quote one figure and the leavers quote another. One is the gross figure and the other is the net figure.

Both are correct in their own way.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

There is a difference between a prediction that turns out to be incorrect and a figure that be be factually verified to be a lie. The words were ‘we send the EU £350 million a week’. We don’t now and never have sent the EU £350 million.

It’s a moot point now that it’s all over but to say it’s not a lie or, at best, an incorrect number based on incorrect research is wrong.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well, maybe a bit of poetic licence was used there, but potentially, our rebate could be withdrawn, and so the £350,000 could be the figure we'd be liable to pay to the EU. However, regardless of whether you go by the net or the gross figure, the amount of money we are currently sending to the EU is huge and better spent on our priorities, and the NHS is one example of that.

I, for one, saw that as an example and not a commitment, as some insist. The Leave campaigners were of mixed political colours and therefore obviously had differences between them as to how the money could be spent. They were not in a position to commit the Government of the day, quite honestly. They were not there to write a manifesto!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Correct, the 'deceit' was in the sum mentioned (net v gross etc) but there never was a pledge, just an aspiration as to how that money could be used. A campaign group isn't in a position to pledge anything and everyone knows that. Only governments can do that and it certainly wasn't one of Cameron and Osborne's - they were too busy trying to scare people into staying in.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The rebate could only be withdrawn if the UK agreed to it as changes to rebate required unanimity of the European Council. The rebate is part of the Multiannual Financial Framework - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-36085281

It is a very good point that the leave campaign was in no position to make promises as it wasn’t the government. I didn’t have a great deal of time for David Cameron before the referendum but I did admire the fact he resigned as he was a supporter of remaining in the EU

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Did you read the bit about the UK losing its veto?

Technically, our agreement would be needed to scrap it altogether, but you never know what barrel we might be held over in the future to extract that agreement.

And frankly, if Jeremy came to power, you can kiss goodbye to that rebate! :p:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Official data proves Boris was wrong about £350m a week to Brussels.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well, whaddya know! Still stands though, name me a year when we sent either figure to Brussels and I will pay everyone here a tenner*

*example not commitment

Re: Brexit discussion
 

No, you are wrong, as Ramrod demonstrates.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Apologies, I was quoting what told by the Vote Leave campaign. Was vote leave lying or wrong? Of course we don’t give the EU £363m either...

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's only recently the ONS released the £363 figure.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Where's the link to the quote you posted? It doesn't make for a good debate if you continue to post unsourced quotes which turn out to be from the quill of Brextremist Daniel Hannan and not a genuine remainer. I'm sure Mr K is flattered you took time out to locate his wise words from 2016 but he's not the source of your quote.
Why not post something positive like this i if you want to argue for Brexit rather than unsourced fakery?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...e-brexit-vote/

Re: Brexit discussion
 

How are they wise words when they were totally inaccurate ? :dozey:

There was not a recession in 2017 as he said was predicted.

---------- Post added at 21:53 ---------- Previous post was at 21:48 ----------

I have already said that the sums were misleading but the premise of the suggestion, was not a total lie, we do pay a hefty fee and it is that hefty fee we can spend on the NHS, not will spend, but can spend once we leave.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Correct. You know it, I know it and they know it but they still persist in misrepesenting the facts because it suits their anti-Brexit agenda. That's all we need to know.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I get what you're doing - trying to move the debate on from a fake quote to a debate about Mr K's actual post back in 2016. Not sure why you think this is necessary, we all post in haste from time to time.

I never thought I'd say this. But with yet another scandalised leaver leaving by example, I can see Brexit not happening as the Government falls apart. :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You’re pissing in the wind with that ridiculous assertion.

As I said in another thread, democracy ran it’s course, the result of it has to be respected and I’m sorry (well actually, I’m not) to burst your remoaner bubble, but heaven forbid we get a Labour government, they are still for brexit.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

George osborne and the treasury both said that a vote to leave would plunge the UK into a two year recession not hard to find out and verify took me about two minutes also for the first time i looked at this bus slogan so many remain supporters get in a tizzy about it doesn't state spend all the money on the NHS it states "we send the eu 350 million per week, lets fund the NHS instead" no commitment for the whole misrepresented amount at all. Also on Mr K and his laughable "the EU is doing well" only if you ignore Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal and also ignoring the massive ticking bomb that is Deutsche bank that thanks to it's business model could not just collapse but take down the Euro and start another banking domino collapse yes they are doing fantastic. Also keep ignoring the ECB cutting its bonds from €60 billion Euros to €40 billion that will increase pressure on Italy that currently has a debt to GDP of 133%.

As for the UK bungling the brexit negotiations not exactly accurate either the UK has asked the EU for a specific figure on the so called divorce bill and the EU will not give one it is asking the UK for a blind assurance that it will pay the sum the EU eventually decide on. For all you little EU fans tell me would you sign a legal agreement to give me money without knowing a specific amount before signing we all know the answer to that one so stop expecting us to do nationally what none of you would do individually and instead of directing all your vitriol at the UK try directing it at the EU to act in a sensible manner I won't hold my breath.

It was depressing to come back here and see this forum still stuck in the same childish rut with the usual members trying to be superior when they are anything but and i had hoped there would be an actual debate stupid me i will leave again so you can continue in what is normal for this forum.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Good post. :tu:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The Eurozone is recovering and they're starting to see healthy economic growth too. It's premature to say all is well of course but it is recovering. Just the other week there GDP growth continued: https://www.theguardian.com/business...ment-inflation. The Deutsche bank crisis has largely passed and been isolated off, they didn't need a bailout in the end, so any risk will probably only be to the bank itself.

Again it's still not great, neither are we, but anyone hoping for a collapse will be disappointed unless a new crisis comes in from somewhere.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

The EU's underlying problems (banking, Greek debt, right wing extremism, migration etc etc.) haven't been fixed and until they have another crisis could very easily happen there just as it could here.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I think every member State if acted independently, would thrive better than being in a EU bloc, there is only about 10ish net contributors, we are one of them.

Some of the 28 are having their life choked out if them, just look at how many deals we could have, but oh no, we have to conform to EU rules and cannot set our own trade deals.

I don’t think anybody wants Europe as a continent to fail, but I care very little on the corrupt EU.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

All I'll say is the European fund in my ISA has gone up 23% in the last year, 25% the year before that. However my UK fund has flat lined.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41925517

Still waiting for all that doom...

---------- Post added at 16:35 ---------- Previous post was at 16:30 ----------

My wife's family will testify to the effect EU membership and the adoption of the Euro has affected their lives. Yes there has been EU investment but wages are much lower than the UK and prices have gone up considerably to the point where a lot of stuff is more expensive than here. The EU honeymoon days for many of these smaller nations are over I think and they're soon going to realise that there's no such thing as a free lunch. Having broken away from Soviet control they've been sold another form of central control and a lot of them don't like it.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Mr Sainsburys profits are down by 9%, i'd call that gloomy if you were a shareholder !

---------- Post added at 18:19 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------

Confirmation on contrasting EU and UK fortunes:-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/...rket/#comments

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Others have said otherwise. Don't forget, it's only a forcast and not set in stone. Either could go up or down.

Link

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Not what Theresa May was hoping for in her inbox! An interesting situation to say the least.
https://www.ft.com/content/9e11bdcc-...b-322b2cb39656

The Telegraph states it is the source of the leak.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...order-demands/

Re: Brexit discussion
 

... and much of the fall in profits is down to the company's costs associated with the purchase of Argos so nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit, Sterling or anything else.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Don't you find it hilarious that when say the other day, I said the FTSE was reaching record levels, which is it was, it quickly got dismissed as, 'it's to do with global trade.'

Sainsbury's profits take a tumble due to competition and as you say and the hardline remainers around these parts, instantly blame Brexit, how convenient, despite them being utterly incorrect, as always. :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

But a good part of it is. FTSE companies largely earn cash from abroad and therefore the weaker pound strengthens it's value relative to the GBP denominated FTSE. http://www.cityam.com/260961/why-fts...ned-two-charts

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2017/11/8.jpg

If you were to measure their value in USD then it's still risen but not as dramatically.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Iirc the FTSE 250 is a better barometer of what's going on

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yeah although the UK economy has been stagnant for years now even before Brexit. The US has been doing well for a few years so any exposure there is beneficial.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's certainly beneficial to our pension schemes, the value of which has been going up after the dramatic falls at the time of the financial crisis. Of course, that's all despite Brexit not because of it. :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

A bit more on that Brexit bombshell:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-41936931

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Yes so long as you have limited exposure to the UK. In the immediate aftermath of Brexit my pension increased in value because of the drop in the pound. Again if the market is in the US then the fall in the pound means those dollars buy more pounds - the GBP value will increase.

It's not all one-way though you can't keep seeing your pension gain because of that because the increased value will be eroded away by the subsequent inflation.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That depends on how much inflation there is but yes these things go up and down - just ask those whose pension pots were wiped out a decade ago. Just like me, they know the sad reality only too well.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

And another bombshell from the Brit himself who wrote Article 50. It can be stopped or paused.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a3687256.html

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well that's nice.

Realistically the only way it would be stopped is another referendum, although no one is offering that at the moment (apart from the irrelevant Lib Dems). I could see that happening, particularly if there's a change of govt., and the deal we get offered is not so brilliant after all. It would give the politicians a get out, and saving face and votes is all they care about. The evangelical Brexiters won't be happy, not that they ever are, even when they 'win'.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Another referendum, gee, that's the solution because some weren't happy with the first and if there was another, which there should not be, one is enough and remainers lose again, will you demand another and why stop at two ?

Lets have a third if the second does not go your way because this is the new 'democracy', we keep going until the minority get what they want.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I didn't Mick, just suggesting the politicians might; they are incapable of making decision these days. The beauty of a referendum is that the public can blame no one except themselves.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I think you're right Mr K, it could be a get-out clause if it all goes pear-shaped.
If the facts change then so should the Government's decisions. We won't know the facts for some time ie the deal. For example, the facts have altered on diesel cars and the Government appears to be responding accordingly.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

One referendum is enough in a democracy that is for sure as ever since then it has been dysfunctional chaos of the highest degree with no sign of HMG ever having a nous and where for all of ever coming to a reasonable deal for this country in the Brexit talks..

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's certainly the coalition of chaos, Den. The only certainty is uncertainty! Interesting unless you live and work here!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's a bit irrelevant since both major political parties are committed to Brexit and have been elected on manifestos to achieve just that.

I cannot believe that some in this country still think that Brexit may be reversed by constant sniping. The majority do not want to reverse the referendum decision anyway, so they should save their energy.

---------- Post added at 17:51 ---------- Previous post was at 17:50 ----------

Although nowhere near as chaotic as Corbyn's lot, it has to be said.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Correct again. Some people just won't accept the result of the referendum because it wasn't the outcome they wanted. We all know it.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Pretty much in the same uber low league. I think Corbyn has lost marginally fewer people through the recent scandals though.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Another referendum would be a third one of course as we had one in 1975.

I have been reading this today about aviation post Brexit - https://www.instituteforgovernment.o...exit-explained No wonder Michael O’Leary is making a lot of noise!

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Crucial differences, 1975 was 42 years ago, and it was vastly different to what it is now.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

... and what it'll be in a few years.

Anyway for those who want to harp on about the EEC referendum we can have a second referendum on Brexit in 42 years when we've had the same chance to see how things have worked out. Can't say fairer than that. :D

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Seems fair. Allow we allowed to complain for the next 42 years too like anti-EU people did until last year?

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I can assure you, I have not spent the last 40+ years complaining of the EU, maybe the last 5-10.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It'll be the Brexiters whinging for 42 years about not getting the type of Brexit they wanted. i.e. the one where everyone lives happily ever after. It'll be the fault of May/Corbyn/Remoaners/immigrants, take your pick from that days edition of the Daily Fail !

Re: Brexit discussion
 

So you do read it then... You’re doing something more than me. (Coz I don’t do at all). ;)

When they made Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, I really did not think there could be someone as depressing as the robot Marvin in real life.....



:rofl:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

That's not even the proper original BBC Marvin ! Far too happy. ;)

(And sorry, I know you're a Daily Express fan !)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It'll be the EU for giving us a bad deal, no doubt about that, plus those people named above.
St BoJo and the other Brexit daydreamers won't be to blame.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Correct because the EEC was very different from the EU but then again some folks can't accept that just like they can't accept being losers.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

What changed your mind in the last 5-10 years? I see Bulgaria and Romania joined in 2007 and the Treaty of Lisbon came in to force in 2009. Croatia joined in 2013 but there’s nothing huge like the Maastricht Treaty.

In an alternate universe, what changes in the last 5-10 years would you roll back to make remaining a more palatable choice?

---------- Post added at 08:29 ---------- Previous post was at 07:59 ----------

Of course the EEC changed over the years, evolving with the agreement of the member nations, that’s obvious.

I for one accept the result of the referendum. Am I happy about leaving the EU? No, nothing has changed my mind about membership of the EU being a good thing but I like to think I am grown up enough to accept leaving. However, we are now in a different phase where we need to hold HMG to account and give us an orderly Brexit that does the minimum amount of harm to the UK.

This country has brilliant people, we make and do great things. Nissan in Sunderland for example is regarded by Nissan as one of its best factories. If we remove the possibility of doing frictionless trade with the rest of the EU, this would have a significant impact on their manufacturing processes and Nissan would need to make a decision on this.

I think we tend to work through life thinking ‘everything’s going to be alright’ and we can trust our government to do right by us but with Brexit, I feel the priority is to keep the Conservative parties many factions together is more important than serving the country (see Boris Johnson still having a job right now)

Re: Brexit discussion
 

To me, the main changes have been:
- the increase in trade deals with the rest of the worls making the EU the largest trading bloc to have third-country deals. It's been a massive advocate of free trade and this has led to lots of restructuring across the EU but ultimately economic growth in place of stagnation.
- enlargement eastwards which was a key British policy to contain Russia and promote Western values. The link with freedom of movement and the sudden impact of people moving to the UK was a consequence of a move championed by the UK with ironic consequences.

You raise a good question of Mick and I would like to see what changes he's been against.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

1andrew1 and Mr K may find this a good read.

Link

Re: Brexit discussion
 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8049391.html
As well as the migrant workers crisis, what's also sad is the areas that were strongly for Brexit (SW & NE), benefited most from EU grants and funding. If they think the Govt. will be pouring a similar amount of cash into these area they are in for a shock.

The new UK will be a more extreme version of the already affluent overcrowded SE of England vs the rest of the country. All's gone very quiet on the northern powerhouse and many electrified rail lines in the north have been cancelled. Meanwhile crossrail etc. gets unlimited investment.

(at least we'll have the satisfaction that the SE will be the first to go under with rising sea levels ;) )

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I know it wasn’t aimed at me but that was an interesting article, thank you. I am not sure how the conclusion that the EU is less able to defend democracy and human rights within its borders was reached but maybe I am missing something.

It was interesting the point about inequality and the EU having little or no influence, especially after looking at this study http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpo...raphic-divide/ which appears to show some correlation between inequality and voting leave or remain

Re: Brexit discussion
 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...y_to_clipboard
At least there are some Tories prepared to act for the good of the country.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Of course removing the threat of the UK walking away with no deal empowering the EU to push for a more punitive deal is certainly good for the country.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

It's good that on the eve of Remembrance Sunday, some Tories are able to put country before party.:tu:

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I’m skeptical of the story, due to it being in a Remoaner gutter rag, but let’s say those Remoaning MPs trying scupper Brexit, are not putting Country first at all, they’re destroying a democratic decision, which will have far reaching implications in that it will force people to choose to never vote again, and that is not good for any country, anyone who says otherwise is delusional and undemocratic.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Perhaps this "rag" will suit your tastes better as l myself did not vote for Brexit but l accepted the result but what l don't accept is the utter dysfunctional chaos that has played in HMG since then and if one does not see that then one is blind to it.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...t-go-kkg3w6l89

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Those who wish to see the referendum result overturned need to consider that, if it happens, the game has changed. How long do they think it will be before something they believe sincerely in and achieve through entirely legal and democratic means gets overturned by those who refuse to accept the result. Be under no illusions, it's a very slippery slope.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

I don't think it is going to be overturned but if it were to be it would have to be done via democratic means as well.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

We wouldn't need to have to keep having elections if people didn't change their minds. The main problem with Brexit is we still don't really know what it means. We don't know whether we'll get a hard, soft or no deal. Doesn't seem wrong to me to let the electorate have the final say once a deal is known. Brexiters shouldn't fear that if they feel they still have public support.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Which people have changed their minds? Brexit was a referendum not an election.

As regards elections please name one that was called because people changed their minds.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well govts wouldn't change if people didn't vote differently at each election.
We don't know the Brexit deal on offer. If its great, even I would vote for it. ( and then wake up ! ;) )

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Elections happen because governments are only in power for a limited time. If they are re-elected or not depends as much on what the opposition offers to bribe the electorate and the promises made by the different partys.

As politicians have a habit of misleading the electorate...

No matter what the Brexit deal is you won't be voting on it anyway so that comment is immaterial. We will get the best deal the government can negotiate or non at all if it proves impossible to reach an agreement. Wake up, get over it and stop wingeing about the referendum result.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

You're not wrong there !

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2017/11/10.jpg

Re: Brexit discussion
 

Well this is one man who wants that pledge paid in full.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/h...hief-vqhqmtz7j

Re: Brexit discussion
 

How many times do you have to be told. It was not a pledge but a suggestion.

It's like me saying to you let's go down the brown cow for a drink and you saying no I's prefer the black horse. No pledge anywhere there, just a simple suggestion.

Re: Brexit discussion
 

So you are quite happy for politicians to say things and then pretend that they never meant it?.