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-   -   Police to get tough on internet trolls. (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33703445)

Russ 09-02-2019 18:10

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Yep, even sounds like bullying. But you know what? I just suck it up.

RichardCoulter 09-02-2019 18:11

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35982757)
So run it by me, how has my Aspergers caused issues for me becoming a senior Paralegal for a well-known Law firm where I have over 250 current clients and deal with Judges, QCs, Barristers and medical experts on a daily basis, as well as leaving my files open to scrutiny at any time by the SLA?

And maybe while you’re at it could you explain why nobody who actually knows or has met me has ever said anything similar about my Aspergers? Let me guess, maybe they’re too “frightened” to say anything?

---------- Post added at 18:47 ---------- Previous post was at 18:44 ----------

And again, Hell would freeze over before I accept any “help” or “advice” from you.

Because people with Aspergers aren't unintelligent, they are usually, at worst, of average intelligence and, at best, more intelligent than the general population- it's the lack of social skills that's the main problem.

I can see that you're becoming upset, so let's leave it there. Take care :)

pip08456 09-02-2019 18:15

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
I don't see Russ getting upset.

RichardCoulter 09-02-2019 18:18

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mythica (Post 35982760)
So what about the 'normal' person I mentioned?

---------- Post added at 18:06 ---------- Previous post was at 18:02 ----------



Have you really just told someone they are in denial about their disabilities? Wow, that's a new low, even for you.

Using the term 'normal' for a non disabled person suggests that you view disabled people as 'abnormal'. Interesting.

TheDaddy 09-02-2019 18:22

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 35982764)
I don't see Russ getting upset.

He's not capable of upsetting Russ but when you're in a big hole it's best to stop digging, the way out isn't digging more

---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 18:19 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35982766)
Using the term 'normal' for a non disabled person suggests that you view disabled people as 'abnormal'. Interesting.

Or that they are different from the norm rather than abnormal, it's easy to find offence everywhere if you look hard enough and the look even harder till you spot it

Russ 09-02-2019 18:23

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35982763)
Because people with Aspergers aren't unintelligent, they are usually, at worst, of average intelligence and, at best, more intelligent than the general population- it's the lack of social skills that's the main problem.

I can see that you're becoming upset, so let's leave it there. Take care :)

No no, you don’t get away that easily. If I have problems with social skills how am I able to converse with these highly influential and intelligent people on a daily basis? A very common route in Legal process is winning people over to your side of the argument - it’s how we win cases. So please do tell me, I’m itching to know your expert opinion about this.

Honestly, there’s no shaming in saying “Sorry, I was wrong”.

Mythica 09-02-2019 18:24

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35982766)
Using the term 'normal' for a non disabled person suggests that you view disabled people as 'abnormal'. Interesting.

No it really doesn't Richard. But I guess you don't want to answer the question.

Mick 09-02-2019 21:17

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Any chance we can stick to the topic, stop it with the provocative character assassination tones or this thread will close.

RichardCoulter 18-02-2019 14:25

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
The Digital, Media, Culture and Sport committee has today accused facebook of deliberately and intentionally violated privacy & anti competition laws:

https://www.parliament.uk/business/c...blished-17-19/

Amongst other things eg fake news, they have called for a compulsory code of ethics overseen by a regulator and for websites to be obliged to take down 'harmful' content. They also want the regulator to be given legal powers to take action against those in breach of the code.

Paul 18-02-2019 17:51

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35983578)
they have called for a compulsory code of ethics overseen by a regulator and for websites to be obliged to take down 'harmful' content. They also want the regulator to be given legal powers to take action against those in breach of the code.

"harmful" as decided by who exactly ?

Just another colossal waste of money to create a huge bureaucracy that will not really achieve anything useful.

RichardCoulter 18-02-2019 18:10

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35983610)
"harmful" as decided by who exactly ?

Just another colossal waste of money to create a huge bureaucracy that will not really achieve anything useful.

It'll be things like bullying/trolling, guides to help people make bombs, commit suicide etc. Also, scamming and grooming by paedophiles. The issue seems to be that some sites are taking too long to take things down (if at all). I assume the exact details will be thrashed out by the Government and the regulator.

Why don't you think it'll achieve anything Paul? Even if it only covers the 10% of the internet available to most people, I think it will have a massive impact.

RichardCoulter 23-02-2019 18:23

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
The Metropolitan Police have now started including online bullying/trolling in their online report form:

https://www.met.police.uk/ro/report/...eport-a-crime/

Stuart 25-02-2019 17:44

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35983610)
"harmful" as decided by who exactly ?

Just another colossal waste of money to create a huge bureaucracy that will not really achieve anything useful.

We need to do something.

We haven't needed to do anything like this in the past because while paedophiles, terrorists and all sorts of bad people have existed as long as humans have, modern technology has made it easy for those people to communicate with each other and potential victims. Frequently using methods that cannot easily be monitored by other people who can help. Take bullying. When you and I were kids, any bullies would be able to upset their victims by insulting them and making them look bad in front of their friends (or any group). They may have been able to do so in or out of school, in the local town or where-ever the person hung out. Once the bullying was sorted out, there would likely be little physical evidence it had every occured and the victim could get on with their life.

Now, Bullies have access to all the previous physical locations they used to bully victims. They can also bully the victim on many social media websites (facebook, twitter, thousands of forums etc), the evidence may well be publicly available and, unless the websites can be persuaded to delete the evidence, it will stay for years, possibly even coming up in any social media searches done by prospective employers (which, for the record, is something I don't like, but happens).

Also, insulting people based on their gender, race, any disabilities, and a whole range of other reasons is already illegal, but what can the authorities in this country do if the poster refuses to delete the offensive content, the site is hosted abroad and the owner of the site refuses to do anything? I believe the changes in the law are designed to help get something done. Let's face it, Google, Facebook and Twitter can make it very difficult to get content deleted even if includes beheadings.

RichardCoulter 26-02-2019 18:44

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Totally agree with you Stuart, something has to be done as it's now getting way out of hand.

Facebook have, up until now, sought to justify refusing to take down innapropriate posts on the grounds of free speech, but now appear to be taking matters more seriously. In the past they refused to take down hate speech against a wheelchair user, but Tommy Robinson has now had his Facebook and Instagram accounts closed due to 'violating community standards':

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47371290

He is now officially barred from the platform due to hate speech. Facebook made it clear that they would not tolerate an environment of intimidation and exclusion towards minority groups. In addition, PayPal & YouTube are refusing to do business with him.

Carth 26-02-2019 22:49

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
That'll be about 85% of facebook and twitter accounts gone in the next 6 months then . . if the bosses stick to their word :rolleyes:

Hugh 27-02-2019 07:58

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35984554)
That'll be about 85% of facebook and twitter accounts gone in the next 6 months then . . if the bosses stick to their word :rolleyes:

Probably not - it depends who you "friend".

None of the groups or people I link to exhibit those behaviours, as I wouldn’t join a group or be "friends" to anyone who did.

It’s a small, but very vocal, minority.

denphone 27-02-2019 09:08

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35984570)
Probably not - it depends who you "friend".

None of the groups or people I link to exhibit those behaviours, as I wouldn’t join a group or be "friends" to anyone who did.

It’s a small, but very vocal, minority.

On Facebook l have most of our family , a few close friends and belong to certain groups that are among my own interests and that is it.

OLD BOY 27-02-2019 09:37

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35984576)
On Facebook l have most of our family , a few close friends and belong to certain groups that are among my own interests and that is it.

Very wise, Den.

Hugh 27-02-2019 09:55

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35984576)
On Facebook l have most of our family , a few close friends and belong to certain groups that are among my own interests and that is it.

Yup, and only friends can see my posts, and Only friends of friends can send me "friends’" requests.

denphone 27-02-2019 10:14

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35984585)
Yup, and only friends can see my posts, and Only friends of friends can send me "friends’" requests.

Indeed but there are plenty out there who don't even know about the privacy settings and seems to have a lax attitude to their own security on Facebook.

RichardCoulter 27-02-2019 12:18

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Very true.

RichardCoulter 28-02-2019 21:48

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
The trade body 'The Internet Association' (they represent sites such as facebook, Google, Twitter etc) has written to the Culture, Health and Home Secretaries in an attempt to influence the ongoing negotiations over new rules for the internet.

They have asked for:

- A distinction to be made between illegal and harmful content that is posted.

- Intermediary liability. (Basically, this means that they don't want to be held responsible for the things that their customers post).

- Machines rather than moderators to remove most content.

- A distinction to be made between what is posted publically and what is sent to people in private messages.

This has been interpreted by the BBC Media Editor as a pre emptive strike that recognises that regulation is now needed, but tries to ensure that the internet isn't "pulled in a direction that's bad for business".

Carth 28-02-2019 22:31

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35984800)

- A distinction to be made between what is posted publically and what is sent to people in private messages.

I would think that most of the serious 'bullying and abuse' stuff is done via private messages . . and anyway, if they're really trying to crack down on bullying/trolling there shouldn't be a distinction between the two

heero_yuy 01-03-2019 10:23

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
I think on most sites that PM's are quite literally private and only a team member with administrator priveleges can view them? Moderators can only act when a recipient reports the PM and also sends a copy to the team.

Paul 01-03-2019 16:29

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
On most sites (inc this one) administrators dont have direct access either, only someone with actual database access could read them.

Carth 01-03-2019 16:39

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
But if a complaint was made, do you then get access?

. . if a complaint was made

Paul 01-03-2019 19:53

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Again, no.

The functionality simply does not exist in the software, complaints would not magically change that.

RichardCoulter 05-03-2019 12:13

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
The royal family have now issued guidelines on how to behave on their social media channels:

https://www.tatler.com/article/royal...ls-with-police

Those who do not follow these guidelines and post offensive, inflammatory, hateful, discriminatory etc comments face sanctions including being reported to the police.

ianch99 05-03-2019 12:52

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35985381)
The royal family have now issued guidelines on how to behave on their social media channels:

https://www.tatler.com/article/royal...ls-with-police

Those who do not follow these guidelines and post offensive, inflammatory, hateful, discriminatory etc comments face sanctions including being reported to the police.

Quote:

A three-tier system has been activated for those who meddle anti-socially with the royal social media accounts
Ok, who has the Queen been trolling then? ;)

---------- Post added at 12:52 ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by heero_yuy (Post 35984832)
I think on most sites that PM's are quite literally private and only a team member with administrator priveleges can view them? Moderators can only act when a recipient reports the PM and also sends a copy to the team.

There is a vBulletin mod that allows Admins to read PMs but I doubt that Paul has installed it on this site.

Stuart 05-03-2019 13:32

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 35984554)
That'll be about 85% of facebook and twitter accounts gone in the next 6 months then . . if the bosses stick to their word :rolleyes:

With all the hype about online bullying, fake news etc, it's easy to think that, but I suspect the truth is nearer the opposite.

Facebook does offer the option to lock down your profile so that it's only accessible by friends and apps/pages you've given access. I am unsure if that is switched on by default, because I've been a member of facebook for years (I locked down my own profile), and am not going to set up another facebook account just to check this.

Generally, on my timeline ,I see posts from friends, and pages i've "liked", and the stuff I read on my timeline is stuff I am usually interested in, even if I don't agree with it.

The problem comes because even if the account is locked down, it is entirely possible that someone bad (be it a bully, ISIS recruiter or whatever) can get your facebook details and request a friendship. They can do this by genuinely appearing friendly, even using tricks to appear more friendly. Or they can threaten you.

I don't have accurate figures, but I suspect that the vast majority of social media users are just normal people. People who use facebook to keep track of old friends, use it to comment on other posts, and post the odd photo of family or a good night out. People who use Twitter for the same.

RichardCoulter 05-03-2019 14:12

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 35985390)
Ok, who has the Queen been trolling then? ;)[COLOR="Silver

Ha Ha, you never know :D

---------- Post added at 14:12 ---------- Previous post was at 14:10 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35985399)
With all the hype about online bullying, fake news etc, it's easy to think that, but I suspect the truth is nearer the opposite.

Facebook does offer the option to lock down your profile so that it's only accessible by friends and apps/pages you've given access. I am unsure if that is switched on by default, because I've been a member of facebook for years (I locked down my own profile), and am not going to set up another facebook account just to check this.

Generally, on my timeline ,I see posts from friends, and pages i've "liked", and the stuff I read on my timeline is stuff I am usually interested in, even if I don't agree with it.

The problem comes because even if the account is locked down, it is entirely possible that someone bad (be it a bully, ISIS recruiter or whatever) can get your facebook details and request a friendship. They can do this by genuinely appearing friendly, even using tricks to appear more friendly. Or they can threaten you.

I don't have accurate figures, but I suspect that the vast majority of social media users are just normal people. People who use facebook to keep track of old friends, use it to comment on other posts, and post the odd photo of family or a good night out. People who use Twitter for the same.

I think you're right Stuart, the vast majority of people don't use the internet to deliberately upset people by the use of snide comments, bullying, harrassment etc and any new regulations won't be relevant to how they conduct themselves.

denphone 05-03-2019 14:29

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35985399)
With all the hype about online bullying, fake news etc, it's easy to think that, but I suspect the truth is nearer the opposite.

Facebook does offer the option to lock down your profile so that it's only accessible by friends and apps/pages you've given access. I am unsure if that is switched on by default, because I've been a member of facebook for years (I locked down my own profile), and am not going to set up another facebook account just to check this.

Generally, on my timeline ,I see posts from friends, and pages i've "liked", and the stuff I read on my timeline is stuff I am usually interested in, even if I don't agree with it.

The problem comes because even if the account is locked down, it is entirely possible that someone bad (be it a bully, ISIS recruiter or whatever) can get your facebook details and request a friendship. They can do this by genuinely appearing friendly, even using tricks to appear more friendly. Or they can threaten you.

I don't have accurate figures, but I suspect that the vast majority of social media users are just normal people. People who use facebook to keep track of old friends, use it to comment on other posts, and post the odd photo of family or a good night out. People who use Twitter for the same.


+1

Mr K 05-03-2019 14:43

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Tbh, don't know why anyone uses Facebook or other social media if they value their own privacy. FB have already shown they can't be trusted with anyone's data.

Don't give your details/ info out is the best policy. People are far too lax giving their phone nos, details to all and sundry, then complain when they are inundated with junk or have their identity stolen.

denphone 05-03-2019 14:51

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35985409)
Tbh, don't know why anyone uses Facebook or other social media if they value their own privacy. FB have already shown they can't be trusted with anyone's data.

Don't give your details/ info out is the best policy. People are far too lax giving their phone nos, details to all and sundry, then complain when they are inundated with junk or have their identity stolen.

There are excellent privacy settings on Facebook Mr K so a little bit of work goes a long way.

Mr K 05-03-2019 14:59

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by denphone (Post 35985411)
There are excellent privacy settings on Facebook Mr K so a little bit of work goes a long way.

Yes but do you trust Facebook itself? The boss doesn't seem very honest/reliable. They are only in it for one thing, money, and the most valuable thing they have is info about you.

RichardCoulter 07-03-2019 07:03

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart (Post 35985399)
With all the hype about online bullying, fake news etc, it's easy to think that, but I suspect the truth is nearer the opposite.

Facebook does offer the option to lock down your profile so that it's only accessible by friends and apps/pages you've given access. I am unsure if that is switched on by default, because I've been a member of facebook for years (I locked down my own profile), and am not going to set up another facebook account just to check this.

Generally, on my timeline ,I see posts from friends, and pages i've "liked", and the stuff I read on my timeline is stuff I am usually interested in, even if I don't agree with it.

The problem comes because even if the account is locked down, it is entirely possible that someone bad (be it a bully, ISIS recruiter or whatever) can get your facebook details and request a friendship. They can do this by genuinely appearing friendly, even using tricks to appear more friendly. Or they can threaten you.

I don't have accurate figures, but I suspect that the vast majority of social media users are just normal people. People who use facebook to keep track of old friends, use it to comment on other posts, and post the odd photo of family or a good night out. People who use Twitter for the same.

Mark Zuckerberg has said that facebook will now focus on becoming a "privacy focussed network", as opposed to wanting to 'connect the world':

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/06/t...vacy-blog.html

They say that private messages will be encrypted, so that even facebook can't access them.

I still don't trust them.

denphone 07-03-2019 07:17

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 35985412)
Yes but do you trust Facebook itself? The boss doesn't seem very honest/reliable. They are only in it for one thing, money, and the most valuable thing they have is info about you.

Well l have been a user for a fair while without any problems so that tells its own story Mr K.

techguyone 07-03-2019 07:28

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35985553)

They say that private messages will be encrypted, so that even facebook can't access them.

That'll go down well with Teresa May & Co

Maggy 07-03-2019 08:29

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
It is up to you how much info you lay out in FB. You don't have to put everything about you anywhere on social media. You don't have to provide anything about you re your life is you don't want to. There are a number of sites that keep asking for my mobile number so they can check that I'm me.I just don't provide it. As a result I get no spam texts or phone calls.

RichardCoulter 07-03-2019 10:37

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by techguyone (Post 35985558)
That'll go down well with Teresa May & Co

Yep, the security services and the police aren't happy about private messages being encrypted. IMO, this will lead to online trolls thinking that they can get away with it.

I would think that, whilst it will make it more difficult, they would be able to circumvent the encryption eg if someone is suspected of plotting a terrorist act.

This mornings 'Crimewatch Roadshow' said that hate crimes had nearly doubled to 100,000 in the last five years. Sam Renke, a wheelchair user, told how she had received online comments such as 'It's not just uncomfortable, it's creepy', 'That thing isn't normal', 'Disgusting, freakish and awful', Ew, she is disabled' etc.

Professor Imran Awan, Government advisor on muslim hate crimes, talks about the impact of hate crimes on this community.

If anyone wants to watch it, episode 4 is about 36 minutes in and lasts for about four minutes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00ss27z

Carth 07-03-2019 12:25

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35985573)

This mornings 'Crimewatch Roadshow' said that hate crimes had nearly doubled to 100,000 in the last five years.

I would imagine that's mainly because more things are now defined as 'hate crime'. Calling somebody a fat useless *cough* at one time sometimes led to a smack in the mouth, now it gets you a criminal record. I guess it's an improvement in social equality, but also takes police time away from 'real' crime investigation.

Good effect, bad effect :shrug:

Paul 07-03-2019 15:20

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35985573)
I would think that, whilst it will make it more difficult, they would be able to circumvent the encryption

I think you missed the point of encryption.
If you could circumvent when you wanted then it would be completely useless.

RichardCoulter 07-03-2019 15:46

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35985604)
I think you missed the point of encryption.
If you could circumvent when you wanted then it would be completely useless.

I was thinking along the lines of the security services having the expertise to crack it if facebook don't co-operate, otherwise terrorists etc could just use this method. Maybe they don't, i'm not sure.

RichardCoulter 12-03-2019 11:37

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
The man who invented the internet has written a letter to express his regret that his invention has become "A space for those who spread hatred" and urged Governments to "crackdown on this and not be defeatist":

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-internet.html

Hugh 12-03-2019 13:13

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 35986187)
The man who invented the internet has written a letter to express his regret that his invention has become "A space for those who spread hatred" and urged Governments to "crackdown on this and not be defeatist":

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...-internet.html

He didn’t urge governments to "crack down" - that is the Fail’s interpretation/headline grabbing version of what he said. If you read the Fail article, he didn’t use the words "crack down"..

Here is the source article - https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/...s-lee-message/
Quote:

To tackle any problem, we must clearly outline and understand it. I broadly see three sources of dysfunction affecting today’s web:

1. Deliberate, malicious intent, such as state-sponsored hacking and attacks, criminal behaviour, and online harassment.

2. System design that creates perverse incentives where user value is sacrificed, such as ad-based revenue models that commercially reward clickbait and the viral spread of misinformation.

3. Unintended negative consequences of benevolent design, such as the outraged and polarised tone and quality of online discourse.

While the first category is impossible to eradicate completely, we can create both laws and code to minimize this behaviour, just as we have always done offline. The second category requires us to redesign systems in a way that changes incentives. And the final category calls for research to understand existing systems and model possible new ones or tweak those we already have.

You can’t just blame one government, one social network or the human spirit. Simplistic narratives risk exhausting our energy as we chase the symptoms of these problems instead of focusing on their root causes. To get this right, we will need to come together as a global web community...

...Governments must translate laws and regulations for the digital age. They must ensure markets remain competitive, innovative and open. And they have a responsibility to protect people’s rights and freedoms online. We need open web champions within government — civil servants and elected officials who will take action when private sector interests threaten the public good and who will stand up to protect the open web.

Companies must do more to ensure their pursuit of short-term profit is not at the expense of human rights, democracy, scientific fact or public safety. Platforms and products must be designed with privacy, diversity and security in mind. This year, we’ve seen a number of tech employees stand up and demand better business practices. We need to encourage that spirit.

And most importantly of all, citizens must hold companies and governments accountable for the commitments they make, and demand that they respect the web as a global community with citizens at its heart. If we don’t elect politicians who defend a free and open web, if we don’t do our part to foster constructive healthy conversations online, if we continue to click consent without demanding our data rights be respected, we walk away from our responsibility to ensure these issues are a priority for our governments.
As you can see, it’s a bit more complex than "governments must crack down"...

RichardCoulter 14-03-2019 09:26

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
A man who called a footballer a "Black donkey" in a message has been arrested on suspicion of sending a malicious communication:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47552029

Looks like they are starting to use the Malicious Communications Act to help tackle online abuse.

RichardCoulter 22-03-2019 11:54

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
It seems that the things posted online has reached a new low:

https://metro.co.uk/2019/03/22/peopl...-dead-8981558/

This has made me feel physically sick. I wonder if they thought that posting pictures at Auschwitz for 'amusement' ever entered their heads and was grossly disrespectful to over a million people and their surviving relatives who were murdered here?

RichardCoulter 31-03-2019 14:06

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Mark Zuckerberg now accepts that regulators and Governments should play a more active role in controlling the internet and asks for their help:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47762091

deadite66 31-03-2019 14:58

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
The great wall of Europe incomming.

RichardCoulter 08-04-2019 11:43

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
The Government has now announced that they will be creating an independent regulator (paid for by the tech companies) to oversee inappropriate content on the internet to make the UK "the safest place to be online on the globe".

Websites who break the rules could be blocked, face substantial fines and their senior management could be held personally liable for any failings.

A newly introduced 'duty of care' would require sites to deal with harmful content and become responsible for the safety of their users. There are also calls for annual transparency reports to show the statistics for harmful content and how they are addressing it.

These new rules will apply to any site of any size that allows users to share or discover user generated content or interact with each other and includes social media, file hosting sites, forums, messaging services and search engines:

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-04-08/...e-safety-laws/

A twelve week consultation will now take place before draft legislation is published.

nomadking 08-04-2019 12:11

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
It's the mainstream media(eg soaps, films, etc) that are broadcasting and encouraging harmful content.


With the internet people are SELECTIVELY LOOKING for particular content. The initial idea is already there in their minds. So where else does the initial idea come from promotion by the mainstream media and possibly other people around them. They are putting thoughts in people's heads that weren't there beforehand.

Hugh 08-04-2019 15:11

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35990460)
It's the mainstream media(eg soaps, films, etc) that are broadcasting and encouraging harmful content.


With the internet people are SELECTIVELY LOOKING for particular content. The initial idea is already there in their minds. So where else does the initial idea come from promotion by the mainstream media and possibly other people around them. They are putting thoughts in people's heads that weren't there beforehand.

And that’s how FB and Twitter work - they look at things your contacts are viewing, and show them on your timeline, or push stuff that people pay to be displayed to users with appropriate profiles.

nomadking 08-04-2019 16:29

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35990483)
And that’s how FB and Twitter work - they look at things your contacts are viewing, and show them on your timeline, or push stuff that people pay to be displayed to users with appropriate profiles.

And in how many instances is that the case? Even so, the initial interest originates ELSEWHERE. Stop talking nonsense and address the REAL issues.


The biggest set of "adverts" for a particular behaviour come from the media reporting on it.

Hugh 08-04-2019 17:40

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35990506)
And in how many instances is that the case? Even so, the initial interest originates ELSEWHERE. Stop talking nonsense and address the REAL issues.


The biggest set of "adverts" for a particular behaviour come from the media reporting on it.

a lot of the time - it’s how their algorithms work.

Las year, advertisers spent $40 billion on sponsored content on Facebook - they don’t do that for the good of their health.

Just because you don’t understand/agree with it, doesn’t mean it’s not true.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...7&d=1554741576

nomadking 08-04-2019 17:47

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
But how many even remotely related to harmful content? That STILL leaves the question of "where did the INITIAL idea spring from".

Hugh 08-04-2019 17:58

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35990523)
But how many even remotely related to harmful content? That STILL leaves the question of "where did the INITIAL idea spring from".

From their friends and acquaintances, or from sponsored content, which then gets introduced into feeds.

For instance, their friends like internet gaming, and some of them look at 4Chan stuff, which then feeds their friends other stuff that other gamers and 4Chan users like, which could then show up in the person’s FB or Twitter feed.

nomadking 08-04-2019 18:08

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35990526)
From their friends and acquaintances, or from sponsored content, which then gets introduced into feeds.

For instance, their friends like internet gaming, and some of them look at 4Chan stuff, which then feeds their friends other stuff that other gamers and 4Chan users like, which could then show up in the person’s FB or Twitter feed.

And if indeed that is what is going on, WHICH IT ISN'T, where are those friends and acquaintances getting the INITIAL idea from?


Eg there are SO many things that I only have any knowledge of, because of the media banging on about them. If the media didn't say anything, LESS people would have even the faintest notion of those things. Classic long time example is the media going on about thin runway models and anorexia. How many girls would be aware of it, if it wasn't for those gripes by the media?

Stuart 08-04-2019 21:54

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35990529)
And if indeed that is what is going on, WHICH IT ISN'T, where are those friends and acquaintances getting the INITIAL idea from?


Eg there are SO many things that I only have any knowledge of, because of the media banging on about them. If the media didn't say anything, LESS people would have even the faintest notion of those things. Classic long time example is the media going on about thin runway models and anorexia. How many girls would be aware of it, if it wasn't for those gripes by the media?

Actually it is going on. How do you think the likes of Stephen yaxley Lennon and Breitbart got to the position they did? It wasn’t as a result of media coverage. It’s also worth remembering that ISIS have been very successful taking advantage of the way people share data online to recruit people.

That does not mean the media don’t bear a lot of the blame. They do, but it’s not either/or. It’s both.

RichardCoulter 18-04-2019 16:46

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Facebook has just announced that far right people and groups are to be banned from their platform in an effort to control hate speech and stop the encouragement of discrimination, hate, attack or exclusion against people for simply being who/what they are:

https://www.theguardian.com/technolo...-britain-first

This is a far cry from their previous line that such posts were acceptable in the name of free speech. I suspect that they are trying to clean up their act before the new legislation comes in.

Russ 18-04-2019 16:51

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
It won’t control hate speech. This will just move it somewhere else.

denphone 18-04-2019 16:55

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35991621)
It won’t control hate speech. This will just move it somewhere else.

+1

deadite66 18-04-2019 17:18

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
whats troubling is as centrists get pushed out of the main social media companies they can end up finding alternate ones when they can find themselves around real nazi's and communists.
its better to keep them on facebook and twitter but keep them under control than outright ban and their ideas can be challenged.

Hugh 18-04-2019 17:35

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deadite66 (Post 35991623)
whats troubling is as centrists get pushed out of the main social media companies they can end up finding alternate ones when they can find themselves around real nazi's and communists.
its better to keep them on facebook and twitter but keep them under control than outright ban and their ideas can be challenged.

?The BNP, EDL, and Britain First are not "centrists"... :dozey:

---------- Post added at 17:35 ---------- Previous post was at 17:34 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 35991621)
It won’t control hate speech. This will just move it somewhere else.

But there aren't any platforms that have the same, or anywhere near the same, reach and numbers of subscribers.

deadite66 18-04-2019 17:54

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35991624)
?The BNP, EDL, and Britain First are not "centrists"... :dozey:

i was talking about those that follow people like tommy, people who also have concerns about islam.

Hugh 18-04-2019 19:53

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deadite66 (Post 35991626)
i was talking about those that follow people like tommy, people who also have concerns about islam.

If they follow people like Yaxley-Lennon, they are not "centrists".

deadite66 18-04-2019 20:16

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
"The Chatham House survey published on Tuesday found 55 percent of Europeans from 10 different nations agree that Muslim immigration should be stopped."

half of europe are nazi's?

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ation-stopped/

Hugh 18-04-2019 20:57

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by deadite66 (Post 35991646)
"The Chatham House survey published on Tuesday found 55 percent of Europeans from 10 different nations agree that Muslim immigration should be stopped."

half of europe are nazi's?

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ation-stopped/

You said people that followed Yaxley-Lennon...

RichardCoulter 18-06-2019 16:43

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
The Independent is reporting that Adam Mosseri, the boss of Instagram, has said that help is needed by social networks to stop online trolls and that they "cannot stop people saying mean or nasy things" alone.

Russ 24-06-2019 20:51

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
"No, free speech isn't under threat...but some debates should be shut down".

https://amp.theguardian.com/commenti...-to-suggest-so

RichardCoulter 24-06-2019 21:12

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
On behalf of facebook, Nick Clegg has today called for more regulation to stamp out harmful content, hate speech and fake news.

I'm pleasently surprised that internet sites are doing the right thing as it's long overdue. Too many lives have been lost or ruined.

Source: The Telegraph.

Maggy 24-06-2019 21:27

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36000298)
On behalf of facebook, Nick Clegg has today called for more regulation to stamp out harmful content, hate speech and fake news.

I'm pleasently surprised that internet sites are doing the right thing as it's long overdue. Too many lives have been lost or ruined.

Source: The Telegraph.

Hmm! Well no authority has managed to do that with printed media so far, so I suspect that no authority will control online media either. The only thing that talks with media is being sued for huge sums and the average Joe doesn't have the resources to go to court.

RichardCoulter 25-06-2019 20:37

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 36000299)
Hmm! Well no authority has managed to do that with printed media so far, so I suspect that no authority will control online media either. The only thing that talks with media is being sued for huge sums and the average Joe doesn't have the resources to go to court.

You make a good point Maggy. The Government has cut and cut legal aid, meaning that the justice is denied to the poorest in our society.

The Equalities and Human Rights Commission has made a report highlighting this only today. Manchester Law Centre has launched a campaign to let people know what's going on and to call for restoration of legal aid for the most vulnerable in society.

Damien 25-06-2019 21:30

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ (Post 36000297)
"No, free speech isn't under threat...but some debates should be shut down".

https://amp.theguardian.com/commenti...-to-suggest-so

They seem to be talking about no-platforming at universities. I think it depends. If you shout down an invited speaker invited by others to a private meeting then I don't really think that's on but other forms of protest up to and including refusing to grant a speaker a platform which you somewhat control is fine.

RichardCoulter 01-07-2019 13:35

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
The Church of England has announced ten new digital commandments to try and improve online interaction:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...-social-media/

These include:

- Do not share sexually explicit, threatening or discriminatory posts.

- Speak to others online the way you would speak to them in person.

- Remember that your posts could remain online forever and that you can be held accountable for them.

- Be aware of childrens safety.

- Verify the accuracy of everything you share online.

Damien 01-07-2019 13:59

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
I think internet moderation is beyond even god's abilities and patience.

Paul 01-07-2019 15:46

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36000992)
I think internet moderation is beyond even god's abilities and patience.

You should try forum moderation, that certainly tests your patience :D

RichardCoulter 09-07-2019 18:41

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Instagram have introduced a feature whereby posts are checked by AI. If the post contains hurtful or offensive comments, a "are you sure you want to post this?" message will appear.

I don't think that this will do much to stop those out to cause deliberate upset, but it might stop posts posted in anger.

Hugh 09-07-2019 20:43

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36002006)
Instagram have introduced a feature whereby posts are checked by AI. If the post contains hurtful or offensive comments, a "are you sure you want to post this?" message will appear.

I don't think that this will do much to stop those out to cause deliberate upset, but it might stop posts posted in anger.

It also gives them the justification to ban/suspend the poster if enough people complain, as they checked with them before they posted it.

Paul 09-07-2019 22:33

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
So "hurtful or offensive" in who's opinion exactly ?

How can an AI possibly know whats either of these.

1andrew1 09-07-2019 22:46

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 36002036)
So "hurtful or offensive" in who's opinion exactly ?

How can an AI possibly know whats either of these.

Presumably humans teach it based on items that have been accepted widely as hurtful or offensive. There are probably some quick wins.

OLD BOY 10-07-2019 12:59

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 36002036)
So "hurtful or offensive" in who's opinion exactly ?

How can an AI possibly know whats either of these.

I think we have been on that merry-go-round already.

Let's hope Boris puts an end to snowflakism in politics. All this political correctness is driving many of us up the wall.

Hugh 10-07-2019 13:23

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36002069)
I think we have been on that merry-go-round already.

Let's hope Boris puts an end to snowflakism in politics. All this political correctness is driving many of us up the wall.

Are you being a snowflake about snowflakism? ;)

OLD BOY 10-07-2019 14:54

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36002072)
Are you being a snowflake about snowflakism? ;)

Yes, I get very offended! :D

RichardCoulter 16-09-2019 10:56

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Gary Linekar (and others) are to use a new initiative to deal with trolls:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...ncing-16923908

There was also an interesting programme the other day about someone who suffered mental health issues after online bullying:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07lsr4d

Maggy 16-09-2019 11:17

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36002069)
I think we have been on that merry-go-round already.

Let's hope Boris puts an end to snowflakism in politics. All this political correctness is driving many of us up the wall.

Just make sure you don't get done for speeding.

pip08456 16-09-2019 13:02

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36010209)
Gary Linekar (and others) are to use a new initiative to deal with trolls:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/new...ncing-16923908

There was also an interesting programme the other day about someone who suffered mental health issues after online bullying:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07lsr4d

So they've never heard of "Don't feed the troll" before? Pathetic.

Paul 16-09-2019 15:07

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36010230)
So they've never heard of "Don't feed the troll" before? Pathetic.

Apparently not.

I mean who would have thought it eh ? block and report trolls, amazing stuff. :rolleyes:

Next they will realise they dont have to even read it - or better still, just dont use twitter at all. :erm:

Its almost as revolutionary as when people first discovered the TV off button, when programmes they dont like come on. :dozey:

Carth 16-09-2019 16:25

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36010230)
So they've never heard of "Don't feed the troll" before? Pathetic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36010281)
Apparently not.

I mean who would have thought it eh ? block and report trolls, amazing stuff. :rolleyes:

Next they will realise they dont have to even read it - or better still, just dont use twitter at all. :erm:

Its almost as revolutionary as when people first discovered the TV off button, when programmes they dont like come on. :dozey:

Sorry, I'm not having answers like these, they're much too honest, straight forward and logical.
Please try again, but this time come up with something so off the wall and ridiculous that it keeps the frenzy going :p:

:D :D :D

RichardCoulter 17-01-2020 22:53

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
The Royal College Of Psychiatrists has called on the recently announced independent regulator for online safety to take measures to deal with online abuse, including a mandatory ‘duty of care’ for companies and for the regulator to have enforcement tools to not only issue fines, but also block access to sites and potentially impose liability on individual members of senior management:

https://diginomica.com/government-sh...-data-research

Paul 18-01-2020 00:50

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
More nonsense.

Quote:

Social media companies should promote and contribute to mental health charities ..
Aside from the fact that contributing to any charity is voluntary, why should they get special attention.

RichardCoulter 30-01-2020 16:16

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
As part of efforts to improve their platform, one of the most prolific trolls, Katie Hopkins, has had her Twitter account suspended whilst her account is investigated for hateful content, some of it retweeted by Donald Trump:

https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.am...-a9309351.html

Paul 30-01-2020 19:23

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
So its ok for them to hate Katie ?
Have they suspended Donald Trumps account as well ?

Dont get me wrong, Katie is a complete muppet, but twatter should not be randomly suspending accounts just becasue someone "demands" it.

That said, the world would be far better if all these antisocial media sites were shut down.

Maggy 30-01-2020 22:25

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Everybody has a right to an opinion.Everyone has a right to express that opinion. However that doesn't mean everyone to listen to that opinion.

Stuart 31-01-2020 15:48

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36023987)
So its ok for them to hate Katie ?
Have they suspended Donald Trumps account as well ?

Dont get me wrong, Katie is a complete muppet, but twatter should not be randomly suspending accounts just becasue someone "demands" it.

That said, the world would be far better if all these antisocial media sites were shut down.

That's where Twitter's standards fall down.

I don't think that Katie's particular brand of hate should be tolerated. Nor do I think the brand of hate often spouted by those that consider themselves politically correct. I certainly don't agree with Twitter that Trump should be allowed to tweet his brand of hate because it is historically significant. It may be historically significant, but that does not mean it's right.

That said, Trump gets a lot of publicity (and therefore views) for twitter, so of course they are going to give him a little more leeway.

Maggy 01-02-2020 09:19

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Look if I don't like something on social media I just block the person.As I said before I don't have to listen to people expressing their views.

denphone 01-02-2020 10:11

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy (Post 36024078)
Look if I don't like something on social media I just block the person.As I said before I don't have to listen to people expressing their views.

l could not agree more.:tu:

RichardCoulter 02-02-2020 17:31

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Looks like this was done as a result of pressure from Rachael Riley (countdown host) and the Campaign to Counter Digital Hate (CCDH).

Carth 03-02-2020 17:48

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
CCDH . . . no not the Apache stuff, the gang mentioned above.

Seems a bit dodgy to me from reading an article from last September ;)

https://medium.com/@tennissocialist/...h-b1d6f5204bc7

made me smile anyway

RichardCoulter 12-02-2020 13:22

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Ofcom have been chosen to be the regulator that will deal with online bullying etc. They have reiterated that they intend to make accessing the internet in the UK the safest place in the world:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51446665

This follows numerous failed attempts to make websites self regulatory, eg not doing enough to prevent harassment/bullying in the first place, or failing to take down offensive material quickly enough or at all.

Seyi Akiwowo welcomed the 'Online Harms Bill' after setting up the online abuse awareness group 'Glitch' following sexist and racist harassment online.

Paul 13-02-2020 12:35

Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.
 
Another huge waste of money and government inteference. :rolleyes:


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