re: Operation Yewtree
 

It would be if it wasn't so serious .Lord Mcalpine has said he is suing the BBC ,all Newsnight investigations have been suspended and the rape victim has had to apologize on air .Seriously embarrassing for all involved .My own thoughts are that all internal investigations into the JS scandal should be taken out of the BBC's hands

Surely that would be standard practice in basic journalism .It's the sort of standard i would expect from the Daily Star not a flagship news program with massive resources behind it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20277732

re: Operation Yewtree
 

All Schofield was doing was being a complete idiot and you are copying him. :rolleyes:

re: Operation Yewtree
 

In some defence of the BBC, they do try and hold themselves to account. If you watched Newsnight last night you had the rather odd spectacle of Newsnight tearing into itself and bring people onto the program to lay into it.

This morning Radio 4 really went after the Director General itself: http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today...00/9768406.stm

The Sun and News of the World barely mentioned it. News of the World even went as far as tearing into The Guardian after the initial allegations and calling them liars when they knew it was the truth. As bad as the BBC have messed up recently they do have considerably higher standards than NOTW.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

It was quite entertaining although I have to ask what does the DG do to justify his salary, everyte he's been asked about this whole affair he's answered he didn't know about things and it wasn't his job to get involved.

I seriously doubt that a BBC program possibly outing a politician as a paedophile was never mentioned to him.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Well yes, hence the grilling. You would think he should have noted it, to claim he wasn't really aware of it afterwards either is amazing.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

I rarely watch Newsnight..Mostly it fails to cover subjects that interest me.However IF it's the BBC's flagship programme then it should do better.

I prefer Panorama or Channel 4's Dispatches.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

He wouldn't have been aware of anything, unless they specifically told him about it beforehand. That can't be his fault. He is not DG of "Newsnight" alone, but of the whole BBC.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

You would think that a story naming a senior Tory as a paedophile might have got someone to think.

"Hmmmm, this might generate some headlines. Maybe we should let the boss know about it"

It was common knowledge since lunchtime last Friday that the story was going out. In that time did no-one think the DG might be interested?

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Agree. If it works like any other structure, something this sensitive, and given current climate, the DG would know.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

But that could only be if somebody actually told him. Are people expecting him to be a mind-reader?

re: Operation Yewtree
 

But does he not have staff to alert him to stuff like this as any good structure would have stopped this before it happened.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

You are missing the point. Staff in the structure know when to push info up.

Same as in government. That is what people are paid to do.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

There is simply no way that the DG didn't know...

The BBC's legal team had been all over Newsnight's plans to run a paedophile story.

Whilst the one transmitted did not actually mention the name as the original had planned it was largely the same.

The BBC have been caught out in their grubby attempt to divert attention from themselves.

The lying DG should go.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

And he has just resigned over it.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

I'll wait for Sky to corroborate that ,maybe it's another false allegation ;)

re: Operation Yewtree
 

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Marty's right, I'll wait for sky to confirm it just to be safe...

re: Operation Yewtree
 

There you go, confirmed!

http://news.sky.com/

:p:

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Yeah of course. Arthur's renowned for thinking through the implications of what he writes... :rolleyes: :rofl:

re: Operation Yewtree
 

re: Operation Yewtree
 

remind me what it was.:dunce:

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Jimmy The Pedo and his pedo mates.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Ok as you seem unable to grasp the obvious it's about the allegations about Jimmy Savile,not scoring points,not flaming and not passing comments about cf members.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

It was all so blatantly obvious that pic says.

the tracksuit was the biggest clue.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

I think that sums up the problem in identifying paedos... they refuse to conform to a singular dress code.

Savile was always weird, but it takes a big leap of the imagination to jump from that guy dresses funny, acts funny he must be a paedo.

Britain is full of eccentrics, some of them wear tracksuits, some smoke cigars, some are from Yorkshire... they're not paedos.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

I worry about the ones who dress as clowns :D

re: Operation Yewtree
 

re: Operation Yewtree
 

BBC News understands that a ex DJ of radio one was arrested by Operation Yewtree this morning and is being questioned about alleged sexual offences.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

I dare say quite a few people will be arrested and questioned in coming months. Whether charges follow is another matter of course.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

ITV and Sky have both named the DJ.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Being of a certain age I remember in the early days of TOTP you could tell by his behaviour that something was not quite right when there were young girls around him.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Yeh, it's Dave Lee Travis.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Drs. Are routinely dishin out condoms to 12&13 year olds and you lot are goin on about dj paedos!!!!dont make me larfffffff

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Boys or girls?

re: Operation Yewtree
 

what have doctors giving out contraception got to do with paedophiles?

re: Operation Yewtree
 

It seems Sally Bercow is in the McAlpine firing line:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/40...hild-abuse.htm

re: Operation Yewtree
 

The Beeb have offered to pay lord McAlpine a shed load of our money for us ,nice of them

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20348978

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Yes, probably to counteract the rise in teen pregnancy, which is a seperate subject to paedophilia.

There is a general acceptance that teenagers will have sex with each other. This may or may not be morally (or even legally correct) but it is a natural part of teenagers experimenting so it will happen. As such, some doctors at least try and minimise the consequences. There are limits to this, however. A 16 year old having sex with a 14 year old would be morally dubious but a lot more acceptable than a 16 year old having sex with a nine year old.

An adult having sex with a non-legal teenager is not the same thing at all. We, as adults, have a duty to protect teenagers, not take advantage of them.

The fact is that those teenagers where in a position where the management and staff of the organisation should have protected them from abuse. Something which they failed to do, and it seems at least one DJ and one pop star did not fail to take advantage of that fact.

If you still don't think it's a bad thing that happened, I suggest you talk to any victim of sexual abuse (whether they were adult or child at the time of the offence). You'll find that the experience affects them for the rest of their lives. For the rest of their lives, they will have trouble in relationships, trouble trusting other people. They may also be prone to bouts of depression (sometimes leading to them being sectioned or killing themselves), and may become abusers themselves.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Maybe this will be the wake up call that a lot of twitters and facebookers need .When the letters start arriving they may realise that you can't say what you want and get away with it

re: Operation Yewtree
 

No, no, no! I'm sure it'll be just as painful for them just as dishing out twice as much as was due to the former DG... :rolleyes:

---------- Post added at 21:52 ---------- Previous post was at 21:51 ----------

Yes, I'd noticed the Twitter page of a certain former CF member and aspiring world leader (but in no way an extremist) has gone very quiet... :D

re: Operation Yewtree
 

:D

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Won't his pension entitlement mostly be based on his employment at the BBC before becoming DG? Why should he forgo that?

re: Operation Yewtree
 

What he deserves and what he'll get are two different things and I think his resignation payment should have been the minimum required under his contract which was, IIRC, 6 months. The rest, as you say, will be based on his previous employment with the BBC but I'm wondering how a man who appeared so out of his depth when it really mattered ever rose through the ranks to DG in the first place. :confused:

re: Operation Yewtree
 

I think a lot of people using the net generally (and on Twitter and FB in particular) need reminding that the law still applies to them. If a few people got caught and very publically sued, it might make quite a few trolls think twice.

What would you rather they do? Fight the charge when they themselves have admitted to doing wrong on their own channels? They could end up paying a lot more than they are now.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Time served..and it is who you know, not what you know

Happens in public service often

re: Operation Yewtree
 

No, no, no!!! :nono:

We all know that senior people in public service only ever get where they are through sheer hard work, dedication and professionalism, often selflessly enduring years of hardship in the process!

Nepotism, having a face that fits or the 'right' background/accent etc. have nothing whatsoever to do with it...

:D

re: Operation Yewtree
 

lol, thanks..I need the laugh :)

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Simple.Anyone who is bad at the job gets shoved upwards..Happens in ALL institutions.:(

re: Operation Yewtree
 

What did he do wrong? He wasn't head of BBC News, he was head of the whole of the BBC empire ie TV progs, Radio etc. He couldn't have been expected to personally oversee EVERY news item, drama etc programme.:rolleyes: If he had been informed in advance, what should he have done that the 'lower' level managers(head of news, head of newsnight) were meant to have done already. Whether he knew about it in advance is of no real consequence.

The people providing the report were not work experience trainees, and should have been able to be trusted to do their job properly. How far should the Newsnight producers have been expected to go in effectively doing the same research as the reporters were meant to have done. You have to be able to trust senior and seasoned staff to do their job properly and without bias.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

I don't see why we should pay when Entwhistle walks away with a half mill for cacking it all up.

Patten and Entwhistle should be made to pay out of their own pockets. They can better afford it than the cash strapped License subscribers. :mad:

re: Operation Yewtree
 

:zzz:ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZ:zzz:

re: Operation Yewtree
 

You really don't think it's a problem that the top guy didn't bother watching the flagship news programme that was already being given a kicking due to a sex abuse scandal? Imo he should've been looking closely at everything coming out of their office.

---------- Post added at 20:05 ---------- Previous post was at 20:04 ----------

Nice...

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Why should he be expected watch every news or documentary programme that the BBC produces? The report wasn't about JS. If he had watched it, what would have been the difference?

re: Operation Yewtree
 

No one said all, when their top news programme is already under scrutiny it's fair to expect the top guy to be showing a more than passing interest in everything they're doing. The difference could've simply been him asking if any one had sought lord mcalpine's opinion on the story.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

That would have been the job of the head of newsnight or head of news section and not the job of the DG. The main failure of the report was that Messham was an unreliable witness. Even is Lord McAlpine had been contacted, what could he have done to disprove the allegations before the report went out.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

I am not saying anything, and people are talking about me - good isn't it. Before people start to criticise over this sick man, Unless you have been abused some people will not know what they are suffering.

When this happens to you, it marks you for life, it took me seven years to explain to my wife about it, and not everything, so its good she doesn't read these comments.

Ph's groom you with everything such as JS did with his victims, and by the time they strike you will think it perfectly normal.
The biggest rouble there is at the moment is that when names appear ie like Schofield did, it will get covered up quite quickly, it can happen anywhere and normally you will know who they are, before they strike.

When it happened to me l was naive and young- i am now nearly 61 and this sort of sickness is still going on - everyone can stop it, but it will go underground.

I remember the days when you could not go into a toilet when some sick git will look under the door and then throw something underneath.
Even today - l WILL NOT stand next to my kids in the loo if we are out, and when l do stand in front of a urinal l have to be close up to it, thats how it effects me.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

ultimately that responsibility lies with the dg, he won't be the only one to lose their job over this though. Do you think the report would've gone out if anyone had contacted his lordship and he'd told them he'd never been to Wrexham.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Yeah the Director General probably had to take the fall. You could let him off the fact that Newsnight broadcast the story in the first place. He couldn't be seen to have tried to exert pressure on the news division and had the story been true he probably could not to be seen censoring another story about a suspected child abuser.

However the answer that finish him when he said he was unaware that Newsnight had named a senior Tory. That was amazing. A week after the broadcast when the issue had blown up in the week and he was unaware? How could he? It was on news programs, the newspapers and all over the BBC.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

I think that sums up part of the problem ,too many editors ,managers and no one knows who's job it was to inform a man who should have known all about it ,even if it meant watching sky news or ITN .

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Peter Rippon, currently "stepped aside" from his Newsnight editorial duties while his role in canning the expose on Jimmy Saville is investigated.

Helen Boaden, similarly "stepped aside" over the Jimmy Saville afair.

Given that he was fully aware that two of the most senior managers with responsibility for Newsnight had been relieved of duty, and that any further controversy centred on Newsnight was bound to attract a great deal of attention over and above the norm, thanks to the Savile affair, it is absolutely baffling that you should be trying to argue that the DG did not have a vital interest here.

As a matter of fact, due to BBC spending cuts the deputy director general post, where Editor-in-Chief duties rested until recently, has been made redundant. EIC *is* now the Director General's responsibility and is a responsibility he should have been far more attentive to given the messed up reporting lines in the Newsnight office.

Bollards. Messham is relating details of traumatic things that happened to him decades ago, when he was a boy. The failure was on the part of reporters to allow for the nature of his evidence, not on Messham himself. Which leads neatly to your final point.

Even in a newsroom, the notion of innocent until proven guilty is an idea that has some currency. If you contact an individual with details of a scandal said to involve them and they systematically deny any involvement, to the point of denying ever having been in the town in question (except once, when he was accompanied at all times), then you think very carefully about running the story at all. At the very least you hold back while you attempt to corroborate the new information the subject of your investigation has just given you.

McAlpine never had to 'disprove' anything. But he would most certainly have been able to dampen the story enough to prevent it running in the near future, if at all.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20441171

---------- Post added at 15:26 ---------- Previous post was at 15:17 ----------

Meanwhile in other news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20443186

To add to the £185k paid by the BBC.

I must say it's very refreshing to learn that Lord McAlpine intends to donate all such settlements to charity in the form of Children in Need so some good will come out of this. :tu:

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Just heard the alleged name of the 'tv presenter in his 80s' who the police brought in for questioning the other day. Obviously no names mentioned or implied but I'm getting more and more sad at bits of my childhood being eroded if true :(

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Yea it was all over twitter last night. I`m the same as you, when I read that (if its true) I was saddened. Its not a name that would have sprung to mind.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

It is a good thing. It's not as if £185k is much to him, and it does show he wants his name clear.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

what site did you go to,to get the alleged new paedos name?

re: Operation Yewtree
 

There are no suggestions this person is being questioned for offences against children.

I'm not going to say where I saw it but the internet is a big place.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

It's Stuart Hall LINK

re: Operation Yewtree
 

So there goes Its a Knockout as a fond memory then

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Why is everyone assuming its anything to do with Jimmy Saville ?

re: Operation Yewtree
 

I'm not sure they are, but now the Savile business is out in the open, it will make some people feel bolder to come forward with allegations of their own. It's 'connected' in that sense.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Perhaps this thread title should be change to reflect the wider story, that so called idols are just ****.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

I think by now 'Jimmy Savile Allegations' seems a bit of an understatement anyway. :erm:

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Given that Jimmy Savile is the only person who can be discussed in this thread without committing libel or putting us in contempt of court, I think we'll avoid that particular temptation. And I'd appreciate it if you could remember 'innocent until proven guilty' when you're using the word '****' in this context as well. ;)

re: Operation Yewtree
 

and all idols are not ****.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

so what's happened about the "other" celeb that was arrested at the weekend ?

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Given the periods of time we're talking about in these cases I'd really like to know how the police, CPS etc. are going to assess the veracity of the evidence. Unless there are independent witnesses, it's a case of one party's word against another's isn't it.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Unless there are multiple victims.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

You mean victims who know about other victims?:erm:

re: Operation Yewtree
 

No but if a collection of victims make the same accusations independent of each other then it adds more weight that simple being one persons word against another.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

However anyone wanting to sue his estate will have to be able to prove their case surely?

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Yes more weight but how much of that weight will translate into safe prosecutions? We're talking about decades ago and reliance, in large part it seems, on people's recollections of events. I'd really like to know, from someone operating in the field, how the evidence is being assessed and how they determine the truth from what amounts to differing sets of recollections, some of which may well have been subsequently influenced by other allegations (true or false) which have been made public in one way or another. Evidence such as that can't be beyond all reasonable doubt can it?

---------- Post added at 12:03 ---------- Previous post was at 12:02 ----------

That'll be a civil matter in which the weight of evidence required is much reduced. Failure of any legal action wouldn't preclude a civil one.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Max Clifford arrested in sex offences investigation.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20627765

re: Operation Yewtree
 

:shocked:

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Must confess I did think he might be questioned over it, but never expected him to be questioned as an offender himself.

Wonder who is next to be dragged into this mess?

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Yes l wonder who is next.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Sigh! I keep having to remind myself that there are more people in the world who wouldn't ever dream of behaving like this.:(

re: Operation Yewtree
 

I think we should do well (for now) to remember that very little detail regarding these other cases has become public, so we really don't know the severity of the alleged offences of people other than Savile. It may well be that people are now being arrested for behaviour that is considered disturbing when seen through today's eyes, but wasn't considered all that odd at the time.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Hi, I'm Max's PR Consultant. and would like to release this statement.

LOL

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Agree.

I hope very much that the authorities are properly balancing the need to handle complaints sensitively and seriously with the need to weed out false and even malicious claims before arresting people. I can see a great many well known people being drawn into this, any of who may be entirely innonent yet have their lives and careers blighted by association and those who insist there's no smoke without fire.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

While I am not defending any offence of this kind, you are right Daniel.

It may be that some of the offences are something relatively minor (such as a slap on the bum, which seemed to be positively encouraged during the 60s and 70s, just look at the Carry On films). It may also be that some are extremely serious.

re: Operation Yewtree
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20686219

500!! :shocked:

re: Operation Yewtree
 

is this even possible? over 500 victims -how can anyone cover up that many crimes ???

re: Operation Yewtree
 

I'm starting to think that given the amount of arrests and potential victims there was a huge organized pedophile ring amongst our celebs .

and before anyone starts i know that arrest does not equate to guilt ,but if only half the complaints are upheld and only a few of those arrested are found guilty (and there are more to come) then we have a real problem

re: Operation Yewtree
 

whos the latest 60 ish to be arrested,,,,the dirty so and so!

---------- Post added at 21:13 ---------- Previous post was at 21:11 ----------

im in that age bracket,,,,,,so how did i miss out on all this rude fun??

re: Operation Yewtree
 

like i said arrest does not equate to guilt so how is he a "dirty so and so" .that's a very dangerous attitude

re: Operation Yewtree
 

trial by media :td:

re: Operation Yewtree
 

Hopefully because you're not a paedophile...

re: Operation Yewtree
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20721430

Oh dear...