Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Maybe because the process clearly isn't working. Surely after this number of shoddy firmware updates and delays someone should realise something is up and be on Netgears back - send in some of their team to work alongside them and get the issues fixed once and for all.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Why on earth didn't they ship the thing with the Netgear standard firmware?! I guess they could have turned the colours red and put a VM logo in place of the Netgear one, but that should have been fairly trivial compared with the mess this has been.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I may be making a rather naive point here but given Netgear make some fairly decent routers, and since all this does really is stick a modem on the end of one, AND Netgear have made cable modems .... then VM must have really done something quite special to balls this up, right?

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Most long time VM Customers will already have their own wireless equipment as in the early days VM did not supply it, so we went out a bought it ourselves

A modem only option (rather than the HUB) or a switchable "Modem" option on the HUB should have been built into the original spec to allow the 1000's of existing customers who already have their own equipment to carry on using it

I suppose now with the proposed release of R28 the modem option is planned
but VM could have avoided many problems and negative comments if they had included the "Modem" option from the start

From a commercial point of view I can understand how VM would want all their customer base on one piece of equipment, as supporting multiple configurations must be a nightmare

But this could have been done over time, and if the quality of the HUB had been better then most customers would have migrated over, as powering just one piece of equipment is better than multiple units

I gave the HUB a fair go, as I liked the idea of just one unit to power up, and the fact it was supported and would be replaced if required by VM,

But the wireless performance was poor and far worse than my original configuration,

But if the HUB improves I will give it another try, but in the meantime I continue to run two separate units

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Drinking sessions and breweries come to mind.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

:LOL:

you are the master of understatement :cool:

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Actually, does anyone have a list of what the R28 firmware is proposed to change?

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I was going to come up with a list of comedy additions, but I dont think I could make anything more hilarious than what virgin will do with the amount of ineptitude they have in reserve.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I don't think VM know themselves.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Hah... I don't know, the 'Folding paper aeroplane' button might just come in on R28!

Ok, that's quite annoying. I was hoping I'd see something about the WiFi rather than just taking this long to put a modem only button in there! Then again, it doesn't surprise me!

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

They did say that it would fix some of the bugs that users have been reporting, I recon that WiFi is going to be a Hardware rather than Firmware issue though.

There is/was a picture quality issue affecting some Tivo users and they came out and said it was a firmware rather than hardware issue that will be fixed in the next update.

They haven't said the same about some of the issues people have been having with WiFi and the Superhub they have just kept quiet about it all.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Indeed. I understand making it a closed beta in case 'everyone' downloads it and bricks their modems, but to stop us seeing the discussions, bugs, and faults baffles me. It's not like it's a new product now!

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I have access to the Beta forums and you are not missing anything. The issues that get posted are ignored so I think people have given up reporting them now. Its mainly made up of posts complaining about the delays to the beta test.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Oh, wonderful. I can't say I'm surprised, although I was rather hoping they had something like Bugtraq, or a list of what they've compiled for the release...

At least they are doing SOMETHING

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I would hope they have something like that internally, but access isn't provided to Beta testers. We just have a bog standard forum like the rest of the community site. There isn't even anyone from the firmware team that posts on there, everything goes through the forum manager.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Jesus.... Ok well... uh

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

The first of these may have happened, it might explain the delay - maybe Netgear are not releasing anything else until they think they've finally got it right.

But for the second - do VM have employees with enough detailed expertise (i.e. in writing firmware for modem-routers) to assist the suppliers' people? And is it a large-enough team to be able to spare a few for several weeks?

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Certainly I think the poor range will be down to the hardware but the hangs and frequent refusals to accept new connections or work at all in 300Mbps mode when driven hard are all going to be firmware.

As the radio is a plug in PCI-e card (just like a laptop) upgrading the wireless should be reasonably straight forward but I strongly suspect it won't happen - if existing customers got wind of improved hardware they'd all be trying to wangle a replacement one way or another and the costs would be high. I think we're (ok - you're - I wangled a VMNG300) stuck with the hardware until the next CPE arrives. I'm amazed they have the cheek to supply the superhub for 100Mbps.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

It'll be a while before the next CPE arrives, the Superhub is rated for up to 320mbps so they may be using it for the 200/300mbps services too. Won't be till 400mbps arrives that we'll definately be rid of the Superhub.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Check the various forums - it's already a disincentive for many to upgrade from 20Mbps to 30Mbps at a lower monthly charge for some. VM need to put in a lot of effort to recover their reputation after the Superhub saga.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I am one of those statistics, have 20mb and would definately upgrade to 30mb if I knew I'd get a hassle free standalone cable modem or equivelant low power usage modem mode hub (I won't use anything other than my router with tomato as I'd miss too many features). I'd also save £1.50 a month moving to standard payment!

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I have 20mb as well, but I'd happily downgrade if I thought it'd reduce the bills. I'm certainly not interested in upgrading if it means having to find somewhere to put an oversized, over-lit hunk of plastic that provides no real benefit to me.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Well I did upgrade :( and have spent the last month getting my network back to what it was

I have eventually turned the Hub into a "Modem" and have gone back to using my old Wireless device (Time Capsule)

But instead of a small neat VM modem that only use 2 watts to run, I have finished up with a replacement Hub that uses 12.7 to do the same job

And as you say in you post above it is an "oversized, over-lit hunk of plastic", that I have to hide away,

VM have always had my support and still do, I just hope they replace the HUB with a more accomplished device that will enhance the companies reputation

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

What about the superhub alternative vendor? Not heard any news on that? Surely the new vendor will see the issues and sort it out

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

From what has been posted, the "super"hub from the new supplier will be the same spec and the same physical appearance. So it'll still be oversized and over-lit, and provide no real benefit to me, even if it doesn't suffer from the problems that VM and the first supplier are still struggling to sort out. And I wouldn't be able to request one anyway.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I'm sure I saw it mentioned on here in a post who the alternative vendor is.

I do know but am not going to say anything just yet.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Not noticed it mentioned on here but I may have missed it. I too have been told the new supplier by an internal vm source and tbh, if the info I have does turn out to be correct (the source is very in the know and normally very reliable), I'm not convinced that its going to be any more of a quality product than the existing one.

Not going to post it on here due to NDA.

Phil

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Surely not Belkin? They are the only ones I can think of that would be worse than Netgear.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

LMAO!! I suggested Belkin as the alternative supplier in one of the Superhub threads purely as a joke.

But seeing as how the superhub is also a joke maybe all the pieces of the puzzle are finally fitting together. :D

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

i they wanted to make up for past mistakes and get consumer confidence back they would setup a contract with Linksys/Cisco

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

You would think that Cisco would do some sort of deal for them, especially as they produce the Tivo boxes.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Why? Cisco are a commercial company, with their own reputation to protect. They may not want to be associated with a low-end piece of kit like the "super"hub, unless the price is right for them.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

No I don't mean with the Superhub. With a hub which actually works.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

If the posts about alternative supplier are to be believed: the alternative version will be exactly the same (low) spec, same interface, same (over-everything) appearance and "form-factor", same (poor) capability, the only difference will be the details on the label.

There is no new hub coming, just another version of what they have already. And the customers will not be able to decide on one or the other - they'll get what they are given, and be expected to like it.

If R28 finally makes the Netgear kit work, good -at least it might do what it claims to do. Not bad, it must now be six months since the alpha test version was shipped to thousands of unsuspecting customers (who paid for it!).

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Virgin Media Super Hub
Discover unbeatable wireless with the Virgin Media Super Hub combined modem and router. Features include:

The best wireless broadband performance available
The latest wireless N technology
Future proofed for speeds of over 100Mb (thanks to DOCSIS3, if you’re interested!)
Improved coverage, with fewer 'black spots' in your network
Fantastic range, so you can work further away from your router
Great performance for home & small business networking
Super-fast file transfer between computers - ideal for sharing large files
The latest wireless encryption technology for extra security

Efficient power consumption



That is from the Virgin Media website. I hope you all appreciate how much Virgin have put themselves out to provide you with such fantastic hardware with the best wireless performance available (I am sure we could sue them for false advertising or something), they do afterall have your best interests at heart! I am sure they forgot to put "not" in front of all those bullet points :)

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Lol, that entire list except the wireless security is like a reverse list of all the issues people are having.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I however am not under such an NDA - Huawei.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Ah so it could be a direct clone of the Netgear then :-)

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I have been informed by VirginMedia that the new firmware will be available on the 29th.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

We shall see :rolleyes:

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Considering every release to testers so far has been on a Friday (presumably following a regular Friday morning meeting with Netgear) and the last we heard (on a Friday of course) was that there were still too many bugs for it to go out for testing I'm guessing that the 29th is just an estimate of when it will be made available to the testers - so not this Friday either.

Of course they could just not bother with the supposed beta testers as they rarely respond to any of the issues posted in the testing forum and just ignored the faults reported with R25 and shipped it anyway. In fact the shipped version wasn't even the one tested as a trivial bug with WiFi channel setting in the Janet & John section had been fixed.

The only thing professional about the process so far is that customers (victims?) are still being charged.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I know, I think we should let Anne Robinson rip them to bits on Watchdog

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Apart from "Bridge Mode" does anyone know whats in the update?

Many off us have found a workaround to put the Hub into "Bridge" anyway

I would imagine after the update all these user setting will disappear and hopefully the new "Bridge Mode" will be just a case of ticking a box

Or is my naivety showing again :erm:

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I still don't see why there is a lingering delay with the new fw release, surely if Netgear are resolving these issues alone why is the device not tested as per whatever methodology they're utilising before it's sent to VM. One thing is for sure no one is spending all day fixing the never ending list of bugs, over a six month period it'll be shocking to see the number of hours of "development" gone into the SH, a cost effective CPE!

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Care to place a wager on it? :p:

So its not even out to beta testers yet, the chances of a rollout by the 29th are slim to none imho

---------- Post added at 10:58 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------

"Modem Mode" is a simple case of ticking a box on a page in the gui.


Phil

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I would like to hope that modem only mode would reduce the power usage but unless they can switch off hardware i.e. the unused router, I don't see it happening. So we'll have an "always on" device that slowly eats more watts than necessary.

What does 12.7w on 24/7 for a year add up to ?

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

A good rule of thumb is that 1w on 24x7 costs ~ £1 per year

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Well my old VM modem used 2.7 watts so I am using an extra 10 watts per hour to do the same job,

I work it out in my case as an extra £1.05 per month

an extra 10 watts per hour = 100 hours to use a unit at 14.5p

720 hours in a 30 day month divided by 100 = 7.2 units x 14.5 = 104.4p

so an extra £12.53 per year,

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Of course, you could switch it off when you're not using it. No, I don't either :D

But in these energy-conscious days, a 5-times (ish) increase in consumption to do the same job does seem a bit strange.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I know but would it start again? no way would I take that risk ;)

Think those flashing lights are the culprit as far as the extra power consumption goes,

Still they will look nice come christmas time, wont need the tree lights on so that should save me a bit :erm:

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

You need to seriously consider swapping your electricity supplier.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

it would be nice if some of us had a choice :(

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I Know (don't want to stray off topic) BUT :erm:

Just done the deal fixed till July 2013, its supposed to be 8% on top of current tariffs, My hope is that I get it back during the 2 years

Just come off a another fixed deal so had a 20% increase just for that and another 8% on top :shocked:

So my point regarding this, is that power consumption of the HUB is high as a modem replacement only

I had hopped I could reduce my power consumption by taking out my Time Capsule and old modem and just use the HUB instead

Maybe after the R28 firmware upgrade the next one could dim the HUBS lights, as this is were I believe the power go's

Don't get me going again on energy prices, :mad:

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

The lights are most likely plain led's which take a miniscule amount of power. The real drain will come from the router/main cpu chip and wireless radio. Even if there were seperate chips for the router and modem, the user interface would most likely be controlled from the main cpu so switching that off would not likely be an option.

I'm sure we'll find out soon enough once R28 is released.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I've not seen anybody post up the consumption in bridge mode but there is known to be a discrete WiFi board which could be powered down and although the main processor can't be turned off the switch circuitry presumably could be or at least run at reduced power (some switches have a "green" mode). I imagine the power required by the CPU should also drop with the reduced load.

I guess it all depends on how skilled the firmware coders are and how bothered they are about your leccy bill...

So - probably unchanged then :(

Compared to having to fork out for a router to do the job the supplied hub should be doing the extra power cost is pretty small beer.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I agree with you entirely, and had hopped I could just use the HUB and take out my own router

This would have reduced power consumption for me, (and helped the planet for everyone else) :erm:

But sadly it's not worked out like that :cool:

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

> and helped the planet for everyone else

venturing there would certainly be way too far [img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Only trying to be humorous didn't mean to offend

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

You didn't offend.....

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Come on VM, some of us are waiting. I want to upgrade to 30 meg because the current 10 meg is pathetic. The STM limits are so low I can't even watch a single 1 hour HD TV show at peek times without being clobbered. I just need the Superhub to support bridge mode so I can use my own router.

Either that for just give me a proper modem...

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

You can configure the Hub to pass the broadband through to your own device

This Guide is for a Time Capsule but will work with most configurations

It took me 10 minutes to set up my Time Capsule, and now the Hub just acts as a "modem" with the TC doing all the rest

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Unfortunately using the DMZ is not quite the same as proper bridge mode, but thanks anyway.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Ok, no problem,

I was trying to give you an alternative until "proper bridge mode" is available

It works well for me thought it may have helped you :cool:

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

And so it continues........


Phil

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Its strange because no one seemed to report any issues with the modified R26 with bridge mode. So they have some how managed to muck up implementing a UI, surely a fairly basic change.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Just because it wasn't picked up in testing, doesn't mean it isn't there - what has happened for some customers with the SuperHub since launch proves that.

It looks like Virgin have learnt from that, and whatever they are doing with the firmware this time around is picking up issues before a wider rollout would have done.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

If only they'd applied the same principle before the initial escape of the device, none of this negative feedback would have happened.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I wonder what they would do if it turned out to be something that couldn't be fixed with a Firmware update and it was hardware related.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Some of it is hardware - the size, the lights, the power consumption...

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Pfft. I've seen numerous problems with Linksys and Cisco products spanning the range from cheapo consumer routers to enterprise routers costing 10K+ a pop. They're no more immune to their fair share of problems than any other company.

---------- Post added at 00:43 ---------- Previous post was at 00:43 ----------

Hmm. I've got a distant relative who's pretty high up there. This could get... interesting.

---------- Post added at 00:44 ---------- Previous post was at 00:43 ----------

As I mentioned earlier, it's an integrated SoC so the modem and CPU are integrated in one chip. "Routers" are just a piece of software running on the CPU.

---------- Post added at 00:46 ---------- Previous post was at 00:44 ----------

Heh. I wouldn't hold my breath. Yeah there's a seperate switch chip, though even gigabit switches shouldn't take more than a couple watts when idle. Wireless chips like the one in the SH only take ~0.5-2w as well, so there's not a huge amount of scope for saving.

---------- Post added at 00:47 ---------- Previous post was at 00:46 ----------

Interesting. Issues that testers have been complaining about for months get ignored, but when there's an issue testers aren't even aware of it's suddenly classed as a show-stopper. Lol.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

So potentially a 4w saving which would drop the device to 8.7w.

That could be a 31% drop in power usuage which is actuall very good imo. It should also produce less heat too with those chips off.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Yeah but down to 8.7w is still higher than what my dual-radio gigabit router uses at full load with everything on, and still several times higher than a standalone modem, which is what it'd be doing in that state.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Looks like R28 has been binned...........

Attachment 22490 Attachment 22491


Phil

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Does this mean we are in for even more of a delay? or does it look like R29 is in a good enough state that they may release it to beta testers soon.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Hi Phil are those screen shots from your live modem or from beta testing

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Beta but waiting on confirmation now as to wether its going to remain beta or being pushed out to all users.

Phil

---------- Post added at 14:09 ---------- Previous post was at 14:05 ----------

Waiting on confirmation but it seems stable enough up to now. just put it through some heavy duty transfers etc and no probs here.


UPDATE: CONFIRMED AS BETA TRIAL


Phil

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Thanks Phil
Lets hope its stable enough for general release, appreciate the info

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

When you say all users, do you mean the beta testing group on the forums or are they going to skip them and go live to everyone at the same time. I hope its not the latter.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Just updated my post above.

Its a beta trial and not going live yet. Limited testers only for now.


Phil

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Message been posted on the forums now, not quite sure why they are closing the existing beta forums.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I would guess its a case of fresh firmware-fresh page as hopefully a lot of things relating to previous releases shouldn't be relevent now.

unlikely to be anything more sinister.



Phil

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Possibly some of the original group of testers have died of old age waiting for the new release? Certainly at least one has deserted to BT Infinity and another (me) gave up on the hub and wangled a modem instead. It looks like the new beta forum will exclude the dropouts.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I guess that would make sense as any new firmware is no longer relevent to them.

Must admit though, up to now R29 seems stable and has cured the showstopper of large file transfers across my network locking it up for me and also cured the minor niggles I had with R27T2.

Just the rest of the wishlist now.......... lol


Phil

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

> cured the showstopper of large file transfers across my network locking it up

Was that ethernet or via wifi and if wifi what mode?

I only had problems with large file transfers using 300Mbps WiFi. If yours was something else it seems that incompatibilities could be to blame and that could well prove to be a real problem to fix.

Once it's all done and dusted I may try my old superhub to see if it was de-registered or not. I'm not that fussed using my own router but I do want something that works.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

300mbs killed it dead and transferring anything in 145mb mode made my connection un usable while the transfer was in progress.

I can hoof things round @ 300 now with no lockups or freezes and still access the internet quite happily on other machines.



Phil

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

OK pretty similar to mine. I didn't try anything else while my 145Mbps mode backup test was running - I'd started it off late and as it was slow just left it running and went to bed.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Just to add a little more:

Seeing wireless signal levels increased by almost 12db. thats an increase of nearly 20% over R27T2. Yes i know it could just be a coincidence but hub is still in same place it always was and I'm sat where I always do.

Tested using inssider. hub on 300n 2.4ghz using channels 4+8.



Phil.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Any improvement on the modem itself? Ping reduced? Jitter reduced?

Rexz

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Ping still the same, steady 10ms to namesco london and never had any problem with jitter so cant comment there.


Phil

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I'd be quite happy if the new firmware improved the wireless connection. Mine is APPALLING, it might as well be off for how close I need to get to the damn thing before it'll work.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Just got R29 pushed to my Hub. Wireless performance is still the same, and the only change I see is a Modem mode page.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Was that as part of the beta

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

At last, typical VM though didn't think to tell us in advance - just waited until we discovered it.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Is it part of the beta ?

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Had it pushed to my hub to, but i did apply to be part of the beta test.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

i also just got R29 pushed to my Hub. yes that as part of the beta

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

I am a Beta tester, not sure if they have rolled it out wider. They haven't updated the message in the now closed Beta forum. We were meant to be moved to a new forum as R29 was rolled out.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Can I ask, when you enable modem mode does it resync the modem connection? I ask because mine is very stable for most things but can take an hour or more to resync and the Superhub always reboots when I try to control my Dad's computer through Remote Assistance. I shall be wanting to drop to modem mode to do RA and then back to router mode when finished. There is no reason why the modem should reboot if we're just switching the router on and off but I thought I'd just check.

Can you confirm for me?

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

Yes it forces a restart and you get a fresh public IP.

Re: Superhub Firmware Beta Test
 

It has to at least get a new DHCP lease because the MAC the modem section sees has changed from the internal router to that of the PC in port 1. It may or may not resync.