Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

Hamilton & Button do another 1-2 :D

109 & 106 points in championship (1st & 2nd)

2nd 1-2 on the trot.

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It was a very interesting race, with loads of talking points regarding fuel, tyres & reliability. Well done to Lewis & Jenson for their 1-2 finish.

There are still outstanding stewards investigations, one involving Schumacher, whom I felt drove like a petulant child, today ...

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Just watched the recording of it as I was at the allotment until 7pm.

Great race, reminded me very much of the races from the late 80's early 90's

Fantastic 1-2 by Lewis & Jenson..

---------- Post added at 21:26 ---------- Previous post was at 21:25 ----------

I was cheering when both Force India's passed him on the last lap :D Especially after what he did to Massa

Poor Massa and Luizzi, both seemed to be a magnetic force between themselves

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My poor wife :naughty:

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Congrats to LH and JB for another 1-2

Gripping race and lots of action... magic :D:D:D

This season is shaping up to be very interesting indeed

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Absolutely, if he had scored any points it would have been a travesty - I'm very grateful to Force India for making sure he didn't :tu:

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Remember at the start of the season it was all about Schumacher and how his insisting on theis and that and how he was the primary driver. Now we've got a situation where Rosberg is 40 point ahead :) in the drivers championship and Schumacher is reverting to dirty tactics.

---------- Post added at 09:22 ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 ----------

No penalty for Schummy.. Reprimands for Kubica (when he dived into the pits in front of Luizzi) and Alguersuari (unshown incident with Barrichello)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8738074.stm

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Cracking race, does anyone actually care that the tyres were not "up to the job" ? The net result was an enthralling race where cars could actually overtake on the track. :)

I suspect with the high speed corners Silverstone will be somewhat different as we are back in the usual modus operandi of not being able to follow the car in front. :mad:

Let see.........

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I personally think that the perfect tyre should never be used.. In this case they determined that the HARD was the primary and the Soft was the alternate. If the HARD was the best they should only have offered Medium and Super Hard ;)

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Although it was poetic justice, my favourite was when Buemi passed him in a Torro Rosso. :D

---------- Post added at 11:28 ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 ----------

So, no change there then.

---------- Post added at 11:30 ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 ----------

Talking of Buemi, who'd have thought that a Torro Rosso would be leading a Grand Prix. :)

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8756430.stm
Yet more to distract the driver from the actual race :( Yes it'll be good for overtaking but along with brake bias, F-ducts..etc....don't the drivers have enough to do

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The F-duct has been banned.

"The F-duct, pioneered by McLaren this year, has a similar effect by 'stalling' the rear wing - changing the airflow over it so its ability to produce downforce is reduced. But these devices have been explicitly banned."

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Must have missed that bit, I suppose they don;t need it now as they can stall the rear wing manualy ;)

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

I can see all sorts of problems given the restrictions on the use of "driver-adjustable bodywork". Not to be used on the first two laps, you have to be within a second of the car in front, the car in front can't use it to block you. We'll have teams complaining that competitors have misused it to overtake their car, the stewards are going to be busy during the race.

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

Stupid really as they could have gone with a flexible wing and no driver contol over it at all ;) That would have thrown down the gauntlet to the designers and still given roughly the same effect

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Is it me or has overtaking in F1 struggled since they started messing with car restrictions?

Bring back the Williams Honda that Mansell drove back in the 80's, massively powerful and under the right conditions he could wheelspin in all gears.

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Another thing I saw in the report, minimum weight increased by 20kg to prepare the way for a return of KERS.

Good grief, it's a pity they managed to quell the possible breakaway, as the F1 management are clearly a bunch of dithering idiots.

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

First practice in 15 minutes (BBC red button)

Full dates/times

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Rosberg FTW!!!

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Timings from FP1 from the www.formula1.com website

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If you look at sector times Lewis is faster than Nico

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Sector times is all well and good but it's hooking the lap up. Under the right conditions and with the right backing Rosberg could be good for pole. FP2 and FP3 should be good watching! :)

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Pole though isn't willing the race ;) going by the lap times for FP1 (not looked at FP2 yet) the fasted combined lap times is Lewis which will count within the race

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Just a reminder, Formula 1 is on BBC 2 today because of the footy! :)

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HOLY CWAP

Webber takes flying lessons!!!!

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That was incredible, good to see him walk away from it.

Real testament to the safety of the cars.

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Yes, what a crash that was!

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Mark must have thought Red Bull gives you wings. :D

Glad he walked out of that unharmed.

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LOL @ F1 tweet

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Hehehe.

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FIA to introduce new rules, ignore actual race result and use a new piece of high tech equipment to decide result http://bit.ly/9gCOHg ;)

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Fixed it for ya :)

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Hehehee :)

Edit

Jonathan Legard just posted to twit..

FIA provisional result confirms that. Alonso up to 8th, Buemi demoted to 9th and Rosberg now 10th Higher placings unchanged.

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Alsono is still a (insert expletive here), and Ferrari International Assistance came to the rescue yet again.

---------- Post added at 21:02 ---------- Previous post was at 21:00 ----------

When I saw EJ on the grid with his arm around Bernies neck, I was shouting at the TV "Snap it EJ do us F1 fans a favour"

---------- Post added at 21:05 ---------- Previous post was at 21:02 ----------

It was amazing to see MW walk away from a crash and flip like that.

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http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8769619.stm

YAWN!!!!!

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If the positions had been reversed I suspect that the story would be along the lines of "sometimes you win, sometimes you loose with a Safety car, but over the year it will probably balance out "

It was a tough break for sure but perhaps payback for the Spa chicane issue a few years ago..;)

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Hamilton did his drive through and still came second, Ferrari are just jealous that their car is not as good as the Mclaren.;)

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Ferrari are unhappy as FIA (Ferrari International Assistance) didn't come running when they clicked there fingers and get the result they wanted.

Sore grapes from a now poor tean and a bad loser of a double world champion.

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

What a load of nonsense. Alonso is just ****ed that he didn't get away with it. If anything is going to ruin the reputation of F1 it is Ferrari themselves.

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A hasty backtrack from Alonso was published earlier in the week.;)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/84896

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Mark Webbers F1 pitstop in Parliament Square London. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5YyY...eature=channel

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Should be a cracker this year, the new track section looks good and the whole track should even out the redbull/mclaren battle.

Times for FP/QUAL/RACE are as follows

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Really looking forward to Silverstone after listening and watching the Grand Prix cars from past and present at Goodwood last week (including Lewis Hamilton doing doughnuts) :nworthy:. Also seeing a Nascar spin it`s wheels for a couple of hundred yards :shocked:

Let`s just say i had a boner :D

Some film of said Nascar and Matty Griffin doing his bike stuff (quality not to good :( ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5N9i1MDGDk

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8802712.stm

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

McLaren has withdrawn the blown diffuser after problems with it during Friday's practice sessions. Must admit that after watching Lewis trying to push himself the car was looking very unstable

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8806493.stm

---------- Post added at 09:31 ---------- Previous post was at 08:57 ----------

Fancy a laugh on Sunday then hit the red button and change the audio to the stream provided by the CBBC presenters :) I don't think they could be any worse than the original lot :D

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/ne...00/7968317.stm

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

How about a football commentators feed, let John Motson have a go. ;)

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Well done Mark Webber, good job Lewis and Jenson.

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Good to see Mark Webber win after the bickering about the front wing, I thought Vettel was overly aggressive at the start & paid the price.

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Wandering through the BBC archive I came across an article about Tom Pryce the only Welsh F1 driver to take pole position.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/waleshist...stest_man.html

"Thirty-five years ago: the British Grand Prix at Silverstone. A dashing young chap from north Wales sits in his Formula One car at the front of the grid. A Welsh speaker on pole position, a Welsh flag emblazoned on his crash helmet."

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

Good race :) Very pleased MW won after the politics and how he was forced to play second fiddle, laughed alot when it went wrong for Vettel, pleased for the Mclarens too as both drove a good race.

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My drivers of the race are:

Jensen Button, to come form fourteenth off the grid to fourth

Lewis Hamilton for staying up front so well, especially after the trouble over the whole weekend

Sebastian Buemi for holding Schamacher off so well

Antonio Liuzzi for doing a better job at it

Adrian Sutil for doing even better than that

Sebastian Vettel for eventually getting it together and finishing seventh

But the top drive goes to Mark Webber of course, for beating the odds given to him by his team

My highlight, although a bit self-indulgent, was seeing Alonso getting karma for the last three years worth of getting his own way with the stewards. :D

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

A very good driver who was tragically killed far too young.

IIRC it was because a marshal ran over to eager to help another driver and he ended up crashing into the marshal walking across the track

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I think another thing this weekend showed us (apart from the fine racing) was the growing rift in the Red Bull garage between the two drivers. It`s not up there with your Senna/Prost episode yet but it is certainly brewing up and i don`t think either driver even likes to see the other doing well.
Perhaps it`s the fact that both drivers know there car is by far the quickest on the grid and this season could be the best chance they ever get of becoming world champion. You could see it in the body language of Christian Horner when he was interviewed and when Vettel wen`t to shake Webbers hand after the race it was so forced for the cameras.
This all seems in total contrast to that of the McLaren garage where Lewis and Jenson though both wanting to beat the other genuinely seem pleased when the other has done well, as in Lewis praising Jensons drive to 4th from 14th and Button seeming pleased Lewis had got second.
It`s certainly set us up for a good second half of the season in which i reckon there could be many more twists and turns (no pun intended :D ).

Nice to see the Williams finally getting somewhere, and Alonso getting shafted :angel:

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I am not convinced this is a Webber/Vettell issue, more of the management backing one driver over the other. I like both drivers, I believe them both to be honourable, but they are working with an organisation that disrespects their integrity. If Red Bull want to kill their golden geese, they are loading the gun already.

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:D

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1225890804870

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I saw that too :tu: :D Justice was served by Mark.

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I would like to think that this is just banter between the two camps. If it is more than that, they are cutting their noses off to spite their faces.

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:LOL:

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Yes Delta Whiskey - Tom Pryce was born in Rhuthin, North Wales. There are plans afoot to erect a statue in his memory. He was a gentleman and tragically died at Kyalami on 5th March 1977, in one of the most horrific (and bizarre) crashes in F1 history. He hit South African marshal Frederick Jansen van Vuuren at 170mph just along the 'Kink' section of track. The 19 year old marshal was carrying a fire extinguisher (trying to cross to get to Renzo Zorzi's car). The extinguisher hit Pryce full in the face, nearly decapitating him. Both the marshal and Pryce were killed instantly. It is on youtube and I would counsel the squeamish to avoid it...

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Wasn't a monument for him done in the town in 2009??

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

Saw that incident the other week... ESPN Classic are showing a Retro F1 series and the 1977 season was shown.

Tragic accident to see, but watching the retro stuff just shows how far the safety aspect of the sport has advanced...

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On my favorite track as well :(

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It was more of a plaque set into the wall Kymmy. There was plans for it to be a full size figure of Tom Pryce standing next to an F1 car...I suppose the cost was too much for a full-scale monument. Mind you, it is great to see Tom remembered in any form:tu:

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

Gossip Time; Jacques Villeneuve has lodged an entry for the 2011 F1 season, apparently with Pat Symonds and possibly Flavio Briatore ;)

Source Autosport Grapevine...

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Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

Following the Wingate issue at Silverstone and the mark Webber fallout there is a good interview with "Mr Red Bull" himself.

Providing this is not spin he has gone up in my opinion, Red Bull could now build on on this low point and rally round as a team to dominate the second half of the season....

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/85379

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For those who missed this mornings FP1 in the wet here's a replay of Lewis not exactly having fun

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/moto...ne/8848120.stm

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Looks like his inside wheel could of spun on the white line pushing the car round, then the correction took him into a wobber of which there was no way back!

Hopefully the cars not damaged to badly...

Minute or so left.

The commentator has just said Red-Bull have lead 78% of the laps so far :shocked:

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Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

Ferrari cheat yet again by ordering Massa to let Alonso past.

Despite it being against the rules.

they should be Disqualified.

The Ferrari boss said to Massa "Alonso is faster than you, did you get that" so that was telling him to let Alonso past.

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It was an obvious team order, they should be disqualified. Shameful.

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It wasn't the Team Principal, it was Massa's engineer Rob Smedley.

Under orders of course & unhappy about it... :(

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+1 :tu:

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I've got more chances of winning the lotto.

Ferrari International Assistance (FIA) won't punich Ferrari will they.

---------- Post added at 14:37 ---------- Previous post was at 14:18 ----------

Breach of rules through coded message.

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With all the news sites reporting "coded orders" and gawd was it a very thin attempt at doing so hopefully something might be done. It's a shame really as Massa did really well and deserved the win

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Massa post race take was worded very carefully by him, I guess to protect him from any punishment FIA are unlikely to give.

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A lot of ducking and diving post race from Ferrari. I feel very sorry for Massa and Rob Smedley his engineer. The team principle didn't even have the guts to give the team order himself.

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Ferrari. :(

Massa and Rob. :)

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Posted on Ferrari twitter page

Both drivers & boss have been summoned to stewards. But see my comment sent to Ferrari.

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Ferrari have been summoned before the stewards.

EDIT: Fined $100,00, but result still stands

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That's not even a slap on the wrist. Just shows the stewards are scared of the teams.

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I can understand the leaving the result as is as.. As usual the drivers suffer for the sake of the team

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http://www.planet-f1.com/news/3213/6...-Results-Stand

They have also been referred to the FIA Sports Council for bringing the game into disrepute so they could get other penalties later.

They were laughing about it when asked if it was team orders, just showed the contempt they have for the rules just like when the tested the new parts on the car and said they were only doing a Demo Publicity Run.

$100,000 is not much of a fine.


Didn't McLaren get find more than that when Hamilton lied in front of the stewards, his race engineer had told him to lie after an overtaking incident, and didn't Hamilton get a 25 second penalty. The strange thing is that there was no need to lie because he had done nothing wrong.

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We`ve seen the Red-Bulls going at it hammer and tongue, we`ve seen the McLarens doing the same but at no stage was one told to move over for the other, maybe back off and keep the status quo but not something so blatantly obvious as that.
Racing.........my arse :mad:

Alonso is obviously the No1 at Ferrari.

Putting aside the overtaking controversy does anyone else agree that Vettel is a bit of an idiot when on pole? He allways seems to be more concerned with cutting off the second placed man (even though he was on the `dirty`side) than he does actually getting a good start himself, again this did not work to his benefit. Maybe he should concentrate on getting away cleanly and then things should work out for themselves...

Mclaren look like they have some major work to do if they are to keep themselves at the top of the pile, at the moment they look ~½ a second slower per lap, lets hope the blown diffuser can be used to greater efficiency in the future, they should have got some great data from Hockenheim.

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to be honest I don't blame ferrari on this one but blame the stupid rule in the first place. We have two car teams and they should be allowed to work as teams.

This has always gone on in the sport and is similar to asking a football team not to pass to each other.

I'm sure they will get around this by saying all they did was tell Massa Alonso was faster and then it was a driver decision to let Alonso through and not team orders. Are we really meant to believe that one ? McLaren, I think, said that one too and we all know that is a load of rubbish so instead of making something up allow the teams to work as teams

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If it was just the F1 Constructors championship then I'd totally agree, but the main title is the F1 Drivers Championship and as such each driver should have the same chance as another whether he be team-mate or not

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it should be up the team to decide what they want to do. The same as late in the season in football if someone was going for the golden boot and a team mate passed to him so he could get another goal it would be hailed as a really sporting act.

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

But as in football the team manager doesn't radio a player and tell him that he must pass to the other striker instead of taking a shot at goal himself!!! ;)

As I said the drivers championship is a lot more prevalent than the constructors championship and allowing team orders you'd get situations where the primary sponsored driver would be allowed to win even if he doesn't deserve it

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£100,000 fine to ferrari is like me getting a 1p fine.

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

Golden Boot is a much more minor award. We don't have an example of something in football that is akin to this. Although it's the reason a single owner cannot own two clubs which compete in the same competition.

Edit: Actually this would be more the case if two players on the same team were going for the Golden Boot and one of them was told to set up the other guy.

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

How does this stand within the regulations then as this was clearly a team order when team orders were banned? Regardless if it was a coded message to the driver or not, it was a blatent team order! Disgraceful.

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I couldn't agree more, it is arguable whether Alonso would have beaten Vettel to turn 1, or not, in a straight line race, but the diagonal move to try & impede Alonso just opened the door for Massa - and they both ended up beating Vettel to the corner.

I wonder if Vettel might have escaped the puncture at Silverstone if he hadn't tried to cut off Mark Webber in a similar fashion.

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we've seen it before. Basically what happened was the team told Massa that Alsono was quicker then he slowed and let im passed. As such everyone will say it was a driver decision and not a team order.

You and I and everyone else with an IQ greater than 1 realises this was a team order and not a driver decision but this is what they always say and this is how they get away with it.

it has been referred to the WMSC but I expect all they will do is tidy up the rule and so this is allowed.

I remember back in 97 or 98 the FIA said team orders were banned. At one race Irvine had "brake problems" and had to slow near the end and let Schuey through, think this may even have been in Austria again. After the race he was interview and even winked when talking about the "brake problems" and nothing was done.

Team orders are part of the sport, if they want them banned then open the sport up to single car teams

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

The issue here is that the message didn't say "Let Alfonso overtake" (for some weird reason he's not called Alonso in this house :D

As such it's likely it was a coded message but based on the likelyhood that it was the fine was issued. If the FIA banned the renault team an appeal in a court would probably find that there is no firm proof it was a coded message hence the ban would be overturned. Hence they can only really slap them firmly on the wrist and say don;t you dare try that again.

:(

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

The $100k fine is the maximum the stewards can impose. The WMSC will likely raise that significantly, especially on the "disrepute" charge.

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Not the best analogy. In football it is all about the team's successes, not the individuals. In Formula One, the first objective is the Driver's Championship.

By the way, the Golden Boot is never assisted by deferred passes. If a player has a chance at taking the shot, they take it. It is too risky to pass it to someone else, who may or may not be in the best position to score.

---------- Post added at 10:25 ---------- Previous post was at 10:23 ----------

Especially when you take the one hundred million pound fine, levelled against McLaren for Ferrarigate (another scandal that involved, some say caused by, Alonso).

---------- Post added at 10:43 ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 ----------

I think you might be referring to Austria, in two thousand and two. Barrichello, who was destined to win, was force to relinquish his position on the final lap, allowing Schumacher to take first place. On the podium, Schumacher gave Barrichello the number one step and the winner's trophy. Unbelievably, this act of defiance (not the giving of the order), attracted a one million dollar fine. A long long way from the paltry one hundred thousand dollar fine for yesterday.

It was this incident that prompted the rule change to disallow team orders.

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

I was at Brands Hatch the other week watching the WTCC. In the second race Andy Priaulx was second to the teammate Agusto Farfus. Going into the second lap he let him through so that he could win as he had no chance of the title. In other races drivers have dropped out of fourth place to let their teammates get a few more points.

This happens all the time in all forms of motor sport. Teams should be allowed to work as teams, in the 50s and earlier drivers had to pull into the pits and give up their car.

Drivers have always had to move over as they work for a team, the only difference is now we can hear the radio traffic.

All I think the WMSC will do is issue a clarification to the rule about team orders

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Fine if the driver makes the choice and also the fact that it's not against the rules in touring cars but this wasn't the driver it was the team and it is against the rules. If they made team orders acceptable then in my honest opinion there's no point in watching the racing anymore.

For Massa it must have been heartbreaking especially with his injury last year and the need to prove himself in a team in which he doesn't have priority. You could hear it in Rob's voice and see it in in Massa's face once he got out of the car, but what does he do, disobey and suddenly find himself persona non grata within the team..

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With his recent performance, I was beginning to think that Massa had lost his edge, following last year's accident. But when I saw him yesterday, all that doubt went away. But to have it literally stolen from him was just despicable.

Re: Formula 1 2010 Season [may contain real time spoilers]
 

this is the grey area in the rules. All the team did is tell the driver that Alonso was quicker. After that Massa who drivers for Ferrari and has a contract with them then chose to slow down and let Alonso through. You and I know this is team orders but at no point was he instructed to do so. All they will say is that it was a driver decision. We, and everyone else with an IQ that isn't less an 1 knows that is a load of rubbish but that is the loophole they use. All the championships that ban team orders use the same approach and i've seen it loads of times, even in F1, and they get away with it.