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telegramsam 15-05-2021 14:50
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Personally I'm more than happy they're staying with BT and Sky with Amazon getting a handful of games.

OLD BOY 15-05-2021 18:28
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36079506)
You are, as ever, selectively quoting.

They obviously need Government permission to award the rights without putting them out to tender due to competition concerns.

That is not to say that they could not have run an auction if they sincerely believed that was the best way to maximise revenue.

Clearly they did not believe this would have extracted greatest value for their shareholders.
Why do you keep arguing about nothing? It was the result of the pandemic. End of.

Hugh 15-05-2021 19:07
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36079506)
You are, as ever, selectively quoting.

They obviously need Government permission to award the rights without putting them out to tender due to competition concerns.

That is not to say that they could not have run an auction if they sincerely believed that was the best way to maximise revenue.

Clearly they did not believe this would have extracted greatest value for their shareholders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36079523)
Why do you keep arguing about nothing? It was the result of the pandemic. End of.
It appears to have been both...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57098432
Quote:
The current £4.7bn deal, agreed in 2018, represented a 10% drop in value.

The Government has approved the deal "in principle" with an "exclusion order" under the competition act, which allows the league to renew without its normal tender process.

"In light of the damaging impact of the Covid-19 pandemic throughout the English football pyramid, the Premier League was able to demonstrate to Government exceptional and compelling reasons for the Exclusion Order," the league said.

As part of the new deal, BT Sport say that to help with the fixture congestion, they will change their Saturday lunchtime game to an evening slot when teams involved have played in Europe on the previous Wednesday.

Clubs had been concerned that there could be another fall in value if the usual open-market auction started as planned next month.

The value of rights for domestic leagues in Europe also appears to have peaked.

jfman 15-05-2021 19:27
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36079523)
Why do you keep arguing about nothing? It was the result of the pandemic. End of.
Far from the end of Old Boy.

They believe the rights have peaked. Rational capitalists have chosen to not conduct a blind auction and instead have negotiated with the existing parties to continue on the existing terms.

They’d be failing in their duties to the member clubs to not seek to maximise the value of the rights. If there was a “deep pockets” streamer out there of any credible standing we would have seen an auction. We have not.

For competition reasons they could not have done this without Covid. But that is not to say Covid forced their hand - it offered them a convenient out.

Huxie 15-05-2021 23:22
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Does the following not suggest that Covid did indeed force their hand?

Letter to A Conant, DCMS, 18 March 2021.
Letter to A Conant, DCMS, 28 March 2021.
Letter to Richard Masters, Premier League, 12 May 2021.

OLD BOY 16-05-2021 00:54
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36079526)
Far from the end of Old Boy.

They believe the rights have peaked. Rational capitalists have chosen to not conduct a blind auction and instead have negotiated with the existing parties to continue on the existing terms.

They’d be failing in their duties to the member clubs to not seek to maximise the value of the rights. If there was a “deep pockets” streamer out there of any credible standing we would have seen an auction. We have not.

For competition reasons they could not have done this without Covid. But that is not to say Covid forced their hand - it offered them a convenient out.
jfman, you are convincing no-one. The measures that have been taken to avoid the competitive bids would not have happened without the COVID crisis.

Just stop arguing, for God’s sake. You are convincing no-one.

jfman 16-05-2021 09:00
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huxie (Post 36079542)
It clearly says they want certainty over the value of the rights. That implies there is considerable uncertainty.

At no point does it say that, owing to the pandemic, it would not be possible to conduct a blind auction.

Which brings us back to the last round where Sky correctly determined the value of the rights had fallen - and there was no deep pockets streamer waiting in the wings. A position that cost Richard Scudamore his job.

The fact they made this application indicates they, as rational capitalists, would rather stick rather than twist. The fluff about the security of the pyramid is a red herring - we already know how six of the twenty clubs feel about the pyramid.

OLD BOY 16-05-2021 10:28
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36079526)
Far from the end of Old Boy.

They believe the rights have peaked. Rational capitalists have chosen to not conduct a blind auction and instead have negotiated with the existing parties to continue on the existing terms.

They’d be failing in their duties to the member clubs to not seek to maximise the value of the rights. If there was a “deep pockets” streamer out there of any credible standing we would have seen an auction. We have not.

For competition reasons they could not have done this without Covid. But that is not to say Covid forced their hand - it offered them a convenient out.
Extract from the letter dated 18 March in Huxie’s links:

The football pyramid has suffered significant financial losses at every level as a result of COVID 19 with existential challenges faced by many clubs and stakeholders. Government has recognised this and sought to address these losses as far as possible, through for example, support for the National League System and women’s football. Government also has a major role to play in facilitating the return of supporters, the absolute foundation for a strong return for all next season. However, you have asked, and we have agreed, that professional football should, where possible, finance its own survival [/B]and recovery. In line with the Government’s request, the Premier League has taken significant steps to support the wider football family, fulfilling our commitment made to the Secretary of State last summer. We have already provided up to £65 million in rescue funding to English Football League (EFL) clubs during the 2020/21 season, alongside additional amount funding for the National League system and the women’s game. Our solidarity and good causes programmes are without financial equal in sport, and to my knowledge, our levels of commitment to the rest of the football pyramid are not matched by any equivalent action taken in any other sector.

All clubs and leagues have suffered from the absence of supporters and matchday revenue, and those at the top end of the pyramid, including the Premier League, have also had to deal with very significant reductions in broadcast and commercial revenue. By the end of the current 2020/21 season, the Premier League and its member Clubs will have incurred revenue losses in the region of £2 billion, [redacted]. Given the trajectory of the pandemic, those losses will continue at least until the end of the 2021/22 season. Furthermore, the course of the virus remains uncertain and we can expect the global economic climate to remain unstable for the foreseeable future.

To be clear, I am not arguing that the value of the rights has not fallen - I think the value has fallen, largely due to a change of strategy by Sky. However, that is not the reason for the proposal to avoid a rights auction on this occasion.

jfman 16-05-2021 10:31
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Yes, Old Boy. They have less money - this isn't in dispute.

What is in dispute is whether the pandemic would prevent a competitive tender. At no stage in any of the correspondence do they claim they could not run a tender.

They would prefer not to - because they know as we both do that there's no "deep pockets" streamer waiting to blow Sky/BT out the water.

OLD BOY 16-05-2021 10:41
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36079576)
Yes, Old Boy. They have less money - this isn't in dispute.

What is in dispute is whether the pandemic would prevent a competitive tender. At no stage in any of the correspondence do they claim they could not run a tender.

They would prefer not to - because they know as we both do that there's no "deep pockets" streamer waiting to blow Sky/BT out the water.
Well, I’m certainly not disputing that. Of course a pandemic would not prevent a competitive tender. The pandemic has increased the risk factor, and bids would inevitably affect that, which is the reason for the proposal.

I don’t believe that you have any links to show that the request was for any other reason.

1andrew1 16-05-2021 11:02
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36079579)
Well, I’m certainly not disputing that. Of course a pandemic would not prevent a competitive tender. The pandemic has increased the risk factor, and bids would inevitably affect that, which is the reason for the proposal.

I don’t believe that you have any links to show that the request was for any other reason.
So, if a tender is not prevented by the pandemic, why would the profit-maximising Premier League decide not to run one?

OLD BOY 16-05-2021 11:15
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36079584)
So, if a tender is not prevented by the pandemic, why would the profit-maximising Premier League decide not to run one?
Because there is greater risk to revenues in the short term, which would skew the bids in a downward spiral. This is clearly a temporary situation, and any degree of certainty will not return until all restrictions are eased and things settle down again.

I am unaware of any suggestion that bidding will not return when the following round is due.

jfman 16-05-2021 11:33
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36079579)
Well, I’m certainly not disputing that. Of course a pandemic would not prevent a competitive tender. The pandemic has increased the risk factor, and bids would inevitably affect that, which is the reason for the proposal.

I don’t believe that you have any links to show that the request was for any other reason.
So you have accepted that the desire to drive profits is the primary reason for the EPL.deciding to roll over the current deals for three years?

That certainly says to me that there's no "deep pockets" streamer out there. Streaming services have had a good pandemic as worldwide stay at home orders have reduced alternatives for discretionary household expenditure. Now would be the best time for them to strike - if there was any appetite to enter the market at all.

As Amazon were presumably party to these discussions they clearly have no interest in going further than they have to date.

---------- Post added at 11:33 ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36079588)
Because there is greater risk to revenues in the short term, which would skew the bids in a downward spiral. This is clearly a temporary situation, and any degree of certainty will not return until all restrictions are eased and things settle down again.

I am unaware of any suggestion that bidding will not return when the following round is due.
Well, on your final point it's unavoidable legally for them to not devise a competitive tender. Covid is the excuse - not the motive - for not doing so this time.

1andrew1 16-05-2021 11:38
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36079588)
Because there is greater risk to revenues in the short term, which would skew the bids in a downward spiral. This is clearly a temporary situation, and any degree of certainty will not return until all restrictions are eased and things settle down again.

I am unaware of any suggestion that bidding will not return when the following round is due.
The trajectory in UK TV rights at the last auction which occurred before the pandemic was downwards as no substantial competition to BT and Sky emerged.

2016-2019 UK TV rights over £5bn
2019-2022 They fell to £4.5bn
Quote:
The rights to show Premier League games from 2019-2022 have been sold for £4.464bn - with two live packages still to be sold.

Sky Sports have won the rights to four tranches - 128 live matches - while BT Sport have one, comprising 32 games.

The Premier League's last deal, agreed in 2015 and running until 2019, was worth £5.14bn.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43002985

jfman 16-05-2021 11:41
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36079599)
The trajectory in UK TV rights at the last auction which occurred before the pandemic was downwards as no substantial competition to BT and Sky emerged.

2016-2019 UK TV rights over £5bn
2019-2022 They fell to £4.5bn

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43002985
And this is the crux of my point - they were absolutely going to fall again. Sky called it last time that there would be nobody out there to match their 2016 offer. Similarly there's nobody out there to match the 2019 offer.

BT are on record that they are trying to reduce their sports rights expenditure. The only way the rights would go up is a new entrant, or Amazon wanting to commit beyond their bargain basement rights they have just now.

If there was a genuine chance of a DAZN, Netflix, Facebook or Google bid we would be heading to auction. Spoiler: there isn't.


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