Cable Forum - Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Here's my conspiracy theory...

The Home Office want ISP's to monitor web-traffic 'in the interests of security'. However the ISP's have said they can't or won't do this. "We are mere conduits!"
Phorm says, I can monitor all web traffic and give a cash incentive to the ISP's for the interception of their customers.
Phorm, ISP and HO join forces...
The Home Office gets what they want, the ISP gets a cash boost, Phorm makes a tidy profit.
Everyone is happy... well everyone except Joe Public. (Are you still with us Joe?)

Could this be why the ICO and Home Office are refusing to step on BT's toes?

David Davis is probably still in the gun sights of the press and his convictions are obviously in the right place, I don't suppose any members of this thread live in the Haltemprice and Howden borough? He has already stated he wants to start a wider debate on civil liberties. Maybe a way of getting more headline press?

NTLVictim

29-06-2008 10:47

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I wouldn't worry too much about Shriti Vadera...she's Brown's meat puppet, when he goes, she goes!

roadrunner69

29-06-2008 11:02

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by icsys (Post 34586898)

I think Joe Public will become more and more conscious of his/ her non privacy over the internet and take steps to rectify it using proxies, encryption etc. This will make 'legitimate' government (through court orders) net-snooping far more difficult.
Of course those who may have serious sht to hide are probably using more secure methods anyway.

In the long term, the technology to protect ourselves will become more accessible and easier to use for non-technical users. This universal snooping will definitely NOT be in the security services interest, more time, effort and money required....or have they not thought of that, :dozey:

Dephormation

29-06-2008 11:22

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warescouse (Post 34586429)

Armed with the initial FOI request scans by Dephormation and when we have fully consumed the interesting information contained within, we should consolidate ideas for our next best move or plan of attack so to speak.

We should attempt to ensure that further requests are precisely worded to fill any missing gaps that have come to light after the last disclosures. The more loose ends we can tie up the better we can fight this illegal WebWise interception.

It is fairly obvious the Phorm and Kent are doing the rounds, so to speak, with the influential community and it is up to us to ensure that our counter claims are well targeted.

Knowledge is power as Kent would like to think and although we are doing a great job I still think we are playing catch up. There is probably about 98% of the population still to educate. Unless Phorm and BT get hit by one of the Big Boys (please, please) who object to Phorm illegaly creaming off their own legal cake we must ensure we do not sit back and pat ourselves on the back just yet.

I'm expecting a response from the HO soon, which will hopefully put a few significant missing pieces of the jigsaw together.

There are some very serious inconsistencies in the HO account of events, which makes me wonder how they are going to account for their actions in the next batch of FoI data.

Once I've got the HO data, I can do some analysis, take stock, and plan the next move with respect to getting additional information.

At that stage I may in a position to write up everything I know about this scandal as a long article for CF (if they'll take it?). But it depends how open HO choose to be.

In the meantime, in terms of publicity, we must must must keep spreading the word. Friends, flyers, word of mouth, letters.

And most important, make plans to travel to the demo on 16 July 2008 in London (http://www.nodpi.org/). Book the train tickets early, its cheaper. Check Megatrain for bargains.

Info;
http://www.nodpi.org/events/
http://www.inphormationdesk.org/

Easy letter writing wizard;
http://www.dephormation.org.uk/letters/

https://nodpi.org/images/gallery/bannerani01jo5.gif
https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/local/2008/06/4.jpg

NTLVictim

29-06-2008 11:32

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Just examined that PCPlus article..no mention of Phorms shady past, and a deprecating remark alluding to "more exitable bloggers", which I will take the editor to task for (I'm a subscriber, and magazine subscriptions generally are falling.)

Interestingly the Star letter on the feedback pages take PCPlus to task for not covering the Phorm scandal..the editor of the news and features page, Alex Cox, responds by pointing to the (incomplete) article in the same issue, and says they like to get comments from all parties involved in an article, and Phorm were; "hard to pin down".

Sound familiar?

He also says that up to date stories can be found on their sister site www.techradar.com.

email addresses to pcplus editors end in @pcplus.co.uk.

Dephormation

29-06-2008 12:44

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTLVictim (Post 34586952)

Alex Cox, responds by pointing to the (incomplete) article in the same issue, and says they like to get comments from all parties involved in an article, and Phorm were; "hard to pin down".
Sound familiar?

At the same time, Phorm are telling ICO and MPs that they are engaging with the technical community. :rolleyes:

roadrunner69

29-06-2008 13:01

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTLVictim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation (Post 34586979)

At the same time, Phorm are telling ICO and MPs that they are engaging with the technical community. :rolleyes:

Like trying to nail jelly to the ceiling :rolleyes:

NTLVictim

29-06-2008 13:09

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation (Post 34586979)

At the same time, Phorm are telling ICO and MPs that they are engaging with the technical community. :rolleyes:

From the weaknesses and lack of detail in that article, calling PC plus the "technical community" may be inaccurate.

I hope a few real technical people on here will enlighten them as to the error of their ways.

Paul Delaney

29-06-2008 13:25

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Can somebody please confirm that the following is correct (want to try a different tack with my MP)

BT (all ISP's) use a piece of hardware for Deep Packet Inspection which legally can only be used for maintaining an Internet Service (Traffic Shaping during peak / off peak times etc). It specifically by law cannot be used for commercial or advertising purposes.
This Deep Packet Inspection hardware can and does record details of every website you visit including times and dates, the law requires that this information is retained by BT for 12 months.
The only way this personal data can be lawfully accessed by any government agency is via a warrant issued by a court, it cannot be accessed under laws such as RIPA, it can only be legally accessed with a warrant.

Enter Phorm.
They add there own Deep Packet Inspection hardware which is identical to BT's with the exception that the personal data it collects isn't subject to the stringent laws restricting its use to non-commercial or advertising purposes nor who will have access to it. A government agency would not require a warrant to access any of the personal data running through this second Deep Packet Inspection hardware.
A computer program written by Phorm "strips personally identifiable material" from the data. This is what they present to every regulatory body to justify that their system complies with privacy laws.
So privacy is only guaranteed by Phorm's software program and as part of their contract with BT Phorm have complete control over the updating and servicing of their software.

The reality is our privacy is in the hands of a company who has a long history (under different names) of writing parasitic software including a rootkit virus, in each case to gain access to personal data.

Thanks

:)

NTLVictim

29-06-2008 14:00

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Delaney (Post 34586992)

The rootkit in question was called apropos... a simple Google will reveal all about it, it is well known and hated.

THIS may be useful as a reference about certain peoples' criminal past.

Dephormation

29-06-2008 14:37

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Delaney (Post 34586992)

Enter Phorm.
They add there own Deep Packet Inspection hardware which is identical to BT's with the exception that the personal data it collects isn't subject to the stringent laws restricting its use to non-commercial or advertising purposes nor who will have access to it. A government agency would not require a warrant to access any of the personal data running through this second Deep Packet Inspection hardware.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Delaney (Post 34586992)

A computer program written by Phorm "strips personally identifiable material" from the data. This is what they present to every regulatory body to justify that their system complies with privacy laws.

Phorm have not published the algorithm or method they use. Indeed there was no reference to the anonymisation process AT ALL in the leaked 2006 report.
They have made oblique statements which claim names, and identifiers will be filtered out, but this is obviously unlikely to be successful unless you know the names of everyone on the planet, your filter is multilingual, and you know the format of all identifiers in use on the planet.
Look at this page, put yourself in Phorm's shoes, and ask yourself how you will remove all identifiers from this page? roadrunner69, dephormation, NTLvictim... are those names? Are they personal identifiers?
Phorm claim they will not process form data, but that assumes the form data is a post request, and seems not to include search engine forms. In other words, they will process form data if it is commercially attractive for them to do so.
Clearly, after a moments thought you'll agree, its complete nonsense to claim they can fully anonymise data.
Yet ICO did not ask BT how this algorithm worked, nor inspect its operation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Delaney (Post 34586992)

So privacy is only guaranteed by Phorm's software program and as part of their contract with BT Phorm have complete control over the updating and servicing of their software.

Your only assurance is that Phorm claim they will not profile you while you retain their opt out cookie. This assurance is given to you by a firm that F-Secure labelled creators of "one of the most widespread malicious rootkits of 2005", and who co-operated with BT running two trials of their spyware in 2006/7, without advising their customers, ICO or (supposedly) the Home Office.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Delaney (Post 34586992)

The reality is our privacy is in the hands of a company who has a long history (under different names) of writing parasitic software including a rootkit virus, in each case to gain access to personal data.

Parasitic both in the sense of taking your personal information and selling it, and taking the one thing that makes the net the valuable resource it is (content and services data), and abusing that too.

There's only one conclusion. Phorm must be stopped.

davethejag

29-06-2008 15:05

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Hi All, I wonder if Dephormation (Pete) could use his video editing skills to "Phorm" this YouTube video into something to suit our cause?

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo...y_to_plan.html

Dave.

Ravenheart

29-06-2008 15:29

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

I did have an idea of getting the video's Kent and his team posted to youtube then putting subtitles into English at the bottom as his advertising spyware magnate speak isn't anything like real English.

for example.. http://youtube.com/watch?v=QQULhWLWucM

"as far as the consumer proposition is concerned Webwise is a way of spying on internet users and getting private data about them. Think of it as spyware installed at your isp.."

I've grabbed the video using downloadhelper, but I can't seem to pop it into Movie maker :( I'll keep trying

JackSon

29-06-2008 16:04

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

1 Attachment(s)

Just a simple upload, a GoogleEarth place mark for sharing around - indicates the venue and date of the protest, gives a very short synopsis of what's going on and links to nodpi.org

I haven't posted it to the google community layer as it can take months before it makes it into the wild.

N.B. - It is just a .kmz google earth place marker file inside the zip, it had to be zipped in order to allow it to be attached to the post.

warescouse

29-06-2008 16:09

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dephormation (Post 34587027)

Phorms system is different. It not only monitors your traffic, it actively interferes with it, creating fake cookies and forcing unexpected redirects to imposter web sites. Any pages which are returned may have advertising inserted (if they are OIX partners).
In other words the privacy, security, and integrity of your communication with your desired web site is compromised (and vice versa).

Phorm have not published the algorithm or method they use. Indeed there was no reference to the anonymisation process AT ALL in the leaked 2006 report.
They have made oblique statements which claim names, and identifiers will be filtered out, but this is obviously unlikely to be successful unless you know the names of everyone on the planet, your filter is multilingual, and you know the format of all identifiers in use on the planet.
Look at this page, put yourself in Phorm's shoes, and ask yourself how you will remove all identifiers from this page? roadrunner69, dephormation, NTLvictim... are those names? Are they personal identifiers?
Phorm claim they will not process form data, but that assumes the form data is a post request, and seems not to include search engine forms. In other words, they will process form data if it is commercially attractive for them to do so.
Clearly, after a moments thought you'll agree, its complete nonsense to claim they can fully anonymise data.
Yet ICO did not ask BT how this algorithm worked, nor inspect its operation.

Your only assurance is that Phorm claim they will not profile you while you retain their opt out cookie. This assurance is given to you by a firm that F-Secure labelled creators of "one of the most widespread malicious rootkits of 2005", and who co-operated with BT running two trials of their spyware in 2006/7, without advising their customers, ICO or (supposedly) the Home Office.

Parasitic both in the sense of taking your personal information and selling it, and taking the one thing that makes the net the valuable resource it is (content and services data), and abusing that too.

There's only one conclusion. Phorm must be stopped.

@Paul Delaney
Another hard hitting argument for your MP is that Phorm also profiles children's on-line data and the fact that none account owners can opt you out or in, unbeknown to you, is a strong argument. Also stating the fact that Phorm intercepts your data whether you have opted in or have opted out is worrying from a security point of view. Surely the argument is that this should be done as consent at account level and not by cookies.

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