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A lot of truth in what Chloe says Andrew.

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And they had really nice boots .;)

---------- Post added at 16:51 ---------- Previous post was at 16:51 ----------

:disturbd:

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You have repeated this many times now. I replied early on with my argument why you are wrong, others can speak for themselves.

Remember that some country has to be the largest economy in Europe. You feel Germany uses its position for malign influence. I think you are wrong but you have every right to believe it.

---------- Post added at 18:58 ---------- Previous post was at 18:56 ----------

She is right, Andrew. Too little time and too much to lose on both sides. The decision makers will, in the end, ignore the deluded "WTO is the only way" fanatics and punt the can down the road of pragmatism.

The really interesting bit comes at the end of the transition period :)

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I've never met a "WTO is the only way" fanatic. WTO rules are only a stop-gap if needed while trade deals are being formed.

On the other hand there are those who think leaving the EU with no deal means the end of the world and all trade will stop.

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You may not have actually met one but here's a few choice selection of TOWIWTO advocates:

Express: 'We will not crash out!' Leading Brexiteer insists Britain will THRIVE on WTO rules

FT: Pro-Brexit MPs to set out plans for no deal

Spectator: No deal with the EU? Sounds like a good deal to me

Brexitcentral.com: The WTO option is now the best choice for Brexit

Leavehq.com: What’s wrong with the WTO Option?

Ah, the much played "Project Fear" card. I think that diversionary tactic has been seen through by now.

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Okay...do you understand that sometimes in life there is nothing to negotiate?? When the EU says that the 4 principles of freedom that they have are indivisible, do you not get that?

When JRM says that no how, no way is he going to accept a compromise, do you not think that he is deadly serious?

Opening doors / trying to wiggle some kind of rebranding through etc...that is what everyone is so annoyed about to begin with. The EU won't budge, those who want to leave based on total severing of everything won't ease either...then there is you. You and May. The EU are not going to budge, the ERG are not going to budge, the DUP have made it clear that they will not support a border down the Irish Sea, lab / lib Dems will not back anything that the Tories propose, the SNP hate everything English etc etc.

No means no...you have to learn to accept that word.

Holy shit, this is like Groundhog day. Every time you say "you'll see, next time she'll get it right!"

What is wrong with you??

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QFFT.

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Yeah, this is probably the one place me and you agree on ; for different reasons all be it. There is no need for any on the remain side to worry or grow desperate at all. Because May keeps going the rate she is, we're bot leaving and the leavers will be the ones infuriated.

They agree that they are 80% there, because the 100% of that 80% was either already EU law, or what they asked, we gave. (Like the divorce bill etc). Like Sephiroth said, the EU have probably not acted in good faith - but then again, why should they? They are dealing with someone who has all to beg for and no dignity left to hold on to. When they talked about the divorce bill, we agreed. Transition timeline, they decided the length. The issue of citizens right - we both decided to agree on their terms for both our sets of people. The ECJ? The issue of Fisheries, the aspect of Europol and of the 4 principles, and on and on and on and on. What the heck have they agreed to that Britain has requested?? It has been a one way street.

I want to flip that question round from above...how can this be called a negotiation when all we ever do as obey their commands? It is not a negotiation...she is just being told what her place is.

FWIW if I ever get to intense negotiations, I want it to be with someone like May, too. I should come out of it alright.

Look I have to ask something before we carry on...are you related to her or something? (At which point I will stop, out of courtesy for you defending a family member. Because honestly, there can be no other explanation for your behavior...)

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So you said this before you said "there will be a deal by the end of October, you'll see!!"

You are all over the place - are you quite alright?

Also, what happened to your love of all things Max Fac?? Remember when you kept saying that it was the only way to go / was going to be the only choice / it was going to pass?

You sure changed your tune on that real fast...

OB it is becoming impossible to take you seriously on a single discussion involving anything political anymore...

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In fairness to Old Boy, his end of October deadline is two months away.
I still think we'll leave the EU next March but through necessity, will mirror lots of its regulations without any input to them.

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This, coming from you? You get every single prediction wrong, but wow do you shout it from the rooftops!

Unfortunately the other "she" (May), seems to think that it is.

Anyway what would be the point in discussing it with the EU? Most of the negotiations that May was doing was with her own cabinet.

Now she is done on that phase, and the EU have rejected it, she can have fun negotiating it within her own larger party. Then with parliament as a whole. (Until they boot her).

Think she'll approach it with a "shhh it's a secret" selling point?

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We're Leaving due to the Bots, I get it .. :)

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With Macron, even the CAP seems to have potential for change, but we are leaving, so will have no influence.

Somewhat simplistic perhaps, but the EU has always seemed confusing for the average UK citizen. What people see on the news is all about the various nations political leaders getting to decide EU policy and direction.
Where the people we elect as MEPs are there to serve the whole of the EU and sit within groups of a similar political flavour, not solely to represent the UK. So such as hard working MEPs are forgotten, whilst the noisy and lazy such as Farage make the news.

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Lol :D