Re: Coronavirus
 

From what I’ve seen the issue is the phrase “pregnant people” instead of pregnant woman”. And that’s a whole other rabbit hole.

Re: Coronavirus
 

More rabbit holes than Watership Down nowadays.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Strange, that.

I googled "covid vaccine pregnant", "covid vaccine pregnancy", & "covid vaccine pregnant person". and everything that came up on the first two pages of the search results used the phrase "pregnant" or "pregnant women" - not one mention of "pregnant person"… :confused:

Can I ask where this "issue" has been raised?

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1627721621

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Twitter verse , where else?

There’s loads of posts of the media and some nhs , Scotland especially, using the term

https://twitter.com/charlottecgill/s...028080644?s=21

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.theguardian.com/business...customers-away

Oh dear oh dear.

Turns out personal responsibility means staying home and people keeping their money in their pocket. Oh well they did ask to reopen.

Now they can enjoy the fruits of capitalist endeavour.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They dont seem able to make their own minds up either ;

Complaining that they are not getting people to attend, and yet ...
:dozey:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Thanks for the clarification.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good to see YouTube clamping down on Covid misinformation
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-58045787

Re: Coronavirus
 

Coronavirus evening update, BBC news 02/08/2021

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58057037
1. NHS Covid app to be modified
2. PM wants 'balanced' approach to travel
3. China's Delta outbreak spreads
4. NI vaccine certificate app 'running well'
5. I'm a Celebrity... returns to Wales

Pathetic :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Except we've already had delta variant and we have a good percentage of the population vaccinated.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Agreed, tweetiepooh, and this is the point people keep missing.

Re: Coronavirus
 

We have, not had, the Delta variant, and it’s still infectious from those vaccinated - a point people keep missing…

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

The Delta variant is now dominant in the UK, Hugh, and I think the difference the vaccines have made is plain for all to see.

And those who do succumb and have been double vaccinated have much milder symptoms. Which is not something the scaremongers like to acknowledge.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You’ve had freedom day mate what more do you want? People can do what they wish to do, mask or no mask.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But can still infect those who have not been vaccinated, which is not something the covidfans/virus-supporters like to acknowledge...

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yet as per usual you miss the obvious, the higher the rate of infection, the greater the chance of a mutation leading to either vaccine escape or a significant reduction in the amount of protection offered by current vaccines.

Consider the Lambda variant, whilst not yet marked as a variant of concern the scientists do have some worries as research/investigation continues.

Whilst we do (and have) need to get back to a degree of normality. We should exercise caution & be planning for what's required in the event a new variant that could escape the vaccine etc. this means balancing people's freedoms with ensuring that we're significantly better prepared than we were.

To think that this is all over is at best folly, at worst utter stupidity.

Re: Coronavirus
 

All the more reason for them to get vaccinated if possile.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why change the habit of a pandemic.

It's over. Mission accomplished. No more state diktats.

But why is nobody spending money? :confused:

Re: Coronavirus
 

I still think that once we can lower the (critical) hospitalisation levels of known variants that unless new variants are markedly different it's possible our body's own systems will get to recognise CV19 variant and deal with it. Yes I know I've said it before!



CV19 is novel in "all" it's forms so has hit badly. We vaccinate as we can to protect the NHS mostly so systems can cope but our own immune systems aren't simply passive. They will learn what CV19 type viruses look like. There maybe some illness and it will be a good idea to get boosters but we can't live in fear of the next wave all the time.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's some sweeping assumptions you're making there.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They can indeed. It doesn’t address my point, though, which didn’t mention masks. Or Freedom Day, for that matter, which hasn’t arrived yet as far as I’m concerned.

---------- Post added at 13:12 ---------- Previous post was at 13:11 ----------

Those who are unvaccinated by choice are on their own.

Re: Coronavirus
 

True but history does show that populations can "get used" to a changing virus (flu, cold) but these are (initially) devastating to groups for whom these are novel. It's not hard to extrapolate that something similar could happen with CV19.



Vaccines made against initial variants are effective to those variations encountered so far. So either they were designed more "generically" or mutations are small enough. If continuing changes are also gradual those infected say with delta may have enough response for epsilon, zeta and eta. Zeta infection "protects" down to theta and so on. (Lambda is quite a big (alphabetical) step from delta, maybe the others didn't emerge enough).



The problems come if the change is large so neither vaccine nor "learned" immunity has an effect and that variation causes major symptoms. Hopefully we have mechanisms in place to deal with another pandemic better in any event.

Re: Coronavirus
 

And for how long do we hide in the cupboard under the stairs this time?

No way, the vaccinations are out there and these will be modified with boosters to tackle the variants.

The time for locking down and donning space masks has had its day. Time to move on and realise that this is not a 100% safe world. Never has been, never will be.

---------- Post added at 13:19 ---------- Previous post was at 13:15 ----------

It is now for the scientists to monitor this virus and to take the necessary steps to factor in the changes to the vaccination boosters.

The public can start to relax now, adjusting their habits to align with the nature and intensity of any changes in the threat posed by the virus. Legislation to enforce restrictions is not necessary now in this country.

Re: Coronavirus
 

In what sense was freedom day not freedom day OB?

No legal restrictions. That’s exactly what was promised and exactly what we have.

---------- Post added at 13:25 ---------- Previous post was at 13:22 ----------

The public don’t need to follow your instructions on relaxing, OB. That’s the point of personal responsibility. If they want to stay at home, that’s entirely their perogative. If businesses or property developers lose money in the meantime that’s capitalism in action, who are we to intervene and mandate public behaviour against public will?

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm sure they acknowledge it, they just don't care or think that it's fair to restrict a majority on the needs of minority.

Given that those everybody over 18 has been offered the vaccine, the unvaccinated are either anti-vax or just not bothered, unable to have the vaccine for some reason or are under 18.

---------- Post added at 14:45 ---------- Previous post was at 14:45 ----------

Yep, heard it all before, don't care.

---------- Post added at 14:52 ---------- Previous post was at 14:45 ----------

Travel? We'll see. If Proof of vaccination is required for access to certain things then it's not "freedom day"

As an aside, I went to the circus the other day, it was brilliant and at the begining the announcer stated that all guests should wear a mask throughout the performance. I saw about 7 people out of a crowd of approx 2,000.

No one cares anymore, well not in Halifax anyway.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Nobody seriously expected unrestricted international travel to form part of “freedom day”.

The problem with observational data is you don’t see all the people who stayed away from the circus because of the clowns.

Re: Coronavirus
 

For British Citizens why not?

I've been vaccinated, if I've been to Spain, Singapore or Australia, how is that any more riskier than going down the road to the shops?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why British citizens over any other? Vaccinated is vaccinated is it not? Or do we do vaccine xenophobia?

Does anyone have the beta variant in your local shops?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Where in my post did i say we should be 'hiding in the cupboard' ?

Hypothetical question, how long do you think that it would take for a vaccine to be updated and then go through approvals and testing again? then let's make it more complex by them having to figure out why the new variant can escape/is more resistant. Weeks? Months?

---------- Post added at 15:16 ---------- Previous post was at 15:15 ----------

You will care, if it, or a future variant takes you or a member of your family for a trip on a ventilator in intensive care, or worse.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m still at a loss as to why OB is concerned about hiding in the cupboard. After all - Mr “just shield the vulnerable” must surely be supportive of private individuals taking rational decisions in their own interests?

Or do we reach the genuine crux of his concern. Is he worried about that lack of expenditure in the economy?

Freedom day isn’t the freedom day he foolishly expected. Some of the vulnerable are self selecting to shield. Those working from home are sitting in their newly built conservatories with no financial interest in a return to slaving away in soulless glass city centre offices, at a cost of thousands per year to train operators.

As I promised him there’s no going back to 2019 and there never will be under the flag of “living with the virus”.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Anti-vaxxers are pretending to be vegan to avoid potential vaccine regulations

https://twitter.com/i/events/1422899486280589312

Re: Coronavirus
 

You must live in fear........HAHAHAH, for the rest of your life. The variants will kill you and all your family.

Like I say, heard it all before, don't care.

---------- Post added at 15:49 ---------- Previous post was at 15:47 ----------

Now you're talking, I agree with you. There shouldn't be any travel restrictions for anyone, anywhere. That's a refreshing attitude you're taking there.

Probably, and Delta, Lambda, Omega. The variants will kill us all.

Re: Coronavirus
 

No, I don't live in fear, I'm also not a sociopath.

I have a healthy respect for science, the scientists and the concerns that they raise.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I was more interested in your initial qualification rather than your atrocious idea. However at least you offered context in the previous sentence.

Fundamentally you’re in with the Great Barrington Declaration crowd, and no proposals no matter how reasonable will ever suit your ideological dogma.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

I wonder what evidence the politically appointed behavioural scientists have to support the Government that doesn't get anything wrong has to support 16 and 17 year olds but not 12-15 year olds as in the rest of the world.

Supply chain of Pfizer vaccines perhaps? After all I don't hear much chatter of an Oxford booster.

Re: Coronavirus
 

After the last 18 months wow, I assume that doesn’t include alternative SAGE or Neil Ferguson?

---------- Post added at 16:53 ---------- Previous post was at 16:52 ----------

You have to agree I’ve been consistent

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yeah, we have lots of vaccines on order and it looks like us old codgers might be getting a Pfizer or Moderna jab if we had AZ in the past (linky)

That's going to limit doses for the kids by the look of it as they can't have the AZ jab

Re: Coronavirus
 

Dare I say if such an incoherent decision was made by regulators outside the umbrella of British Exceptionalism some on the forum would be crying foul.

If you are 16, a few months older than a 15 year old who can “safely” go into school and mix with hundreds of households in the same GCSE courses, maskless, without distancing, why would you bother?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Another probable avoidable death :(

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-dies-of-covid

Re: Coronavirus
 

Jenny McCann said... https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...K3nY0tRHPIXNbM

I see that Ben has also given a link to this sad death. I make no apologies for duplicating the content of his post.

I know that some on here will say that it was his choice but the people left having to cope with his death are his family and his 19 year old daughter. For those who say "Like I say, heard it all before, don't care." then maybe you feel the same way as this guy. I just don't think he would agree with your sentiments if he had been able to see the consequences of his choices.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You wouldn’t

Re: Coronavirus
 

How was the vaccine clinic doing?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-58039581

Re: Coronavirus
 

I did actually see 1 no. Person go in.

So a 0.05% uptake. Get n.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m quite sure that’s not how they measure uptake. Unless you watched it the entire time plus did an extensive survey to find out how many there were actually eligible to be vaccinated there and then.

More good news for Old Boy as the City of London remains “fairly empty”, with offices falling in value. This personal responsibility stuff is fantastic.

https://www.theguardian.com/business...trictions-lift

No in fact VAXED can spread it more which they dont like admitting either......

Re: Coronavirus
 

:bsmack:

Re: Coronavirus
 

My guess (and it is just a guess) is that things might be tweaked so years 11 (15-16) and 12 (16-17) will be vaccinated as a whole rather than doing things by age. It would make a hell of a lot more sense.

I have already been winding up my needle-phobic 15 year old that she is getting a vaccination for her birthday. She is not happy but my 13 year old is laughing like a drain!

(she knows that she should get the jab and her options are very limited in our house about vaccines with two scientist parents)

Re: Coronavirus
 

I suspect once adequate supplies of Pfizer are sourced to booster JCVI groups 1-9 and 12-15 year olds suddenly the advice will change. Entertainingly the current advice is for a single dose of Pfizer for 16 and 17 year olds - nothing about timing of (or even if there will be!) second doses. But it’s definitely definitely not a supply issue.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Bullshoot - please cite scientific evidence.

(OANN, Fox News, Qanon doesn’t count)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Guess it's based on behaviour rather than virus science. Vax'd will maybe move around more, not wear masks as much, take more "risk". Also if Vax'd have less symptoms even when infected or symptoms are slower to onset then they could spread more.


All part of the fun of epidemiology. Just bubbling under the surface is a rise in deaths from possibly the biggest "killer" in history - malaria (https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4711). On an epidemiology course I attended years ago it was estimate that half of the people through history likely to have died from malaria. The numbers have decreased regularly for the past couple of decades but are rising again now - still it doesn't really impact us in the UK so why worry? </sarcasm>

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good news is there are malaria vaccines on their way - and the Covid work has helped in part with that

https://www.newscientist.com/article...ive-ever-made/

https://news.sky.com/story/biontech-...ccine-12364977

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes it is good news and wasn't there something about "vaccinating" the mozzie too that looked promising. Malaria is a parasite on the mozzie as part of it's cycle.
But if a vaccine is made, will it get to the people who need it? Poverty, politics, and so on all stand in the way.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You could be on to something there! In fairness, the JCVI does look beyond simple clinical need.

Pfizer are ramping up and bringing in house supply of their vaccines which is good news - https://www.irishtimes.com/business/...ring-1.4581419

Re: Coronavirus
 

The evidence is that a single Pfizer dose is very effective in this age group, and that a second dose presents a risk of complications (enlarged heart muscle being the principal concern). As always it’s a matter of balancing risk and reward.

You’re starting to sound a bit deranged though. Maybe go out for a walk in the fresh air?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Bet we give second doses once (if?) we have supply. Probably at a magical 22 weeks when some DHSC funded dubious research describes as “optimal”.

Time will tell. However no doubt the risk and reward balance will have shifted so they are still always right.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58091693

It’s almost comedy gold to see the mental gymnastics required to cover the supply side issues.

A very pertinent question. The MHRA have described it as “safe and effective” so which is it?

Maybe if Andy’s vaccine had higher efficacy we’d have hit the herd immunity threshold by now and not be relying on topping it up with millions of infections?

Re: Coronavirus
 

The comedy gold lies in watching someone who styles himself “architect of ideas” peddling conspiracy theories that would make QAnon blush.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I fail to see that stating our vaccination campaign has been restricted by limited supplies of vaccines (and in particular mRNA vaccines) as a conspiracy theory.

The creative studies to produce wildly varying efficacy figures, after one and two doses and on the basis of multiple different dosing schedules are testimony to that. Similarly the horror at our European neighbours identifying risks associated with the Oxford vaccine to ourselves restrict it’s use (conveniently once we had additional supplies of mRNA vaccines).

There’s two possible reasons - one that the science is being manufactured to produce evidence in favour of the Government position based on supplies at the time or the second being sheer luck.

I think unfortunately you’ve been so heavily invested in your position that you cannot consider any alternatives than British exceptionalism.

At this rate OB will never get the millions he needs from under the stairs with no clear route to herd immunity through vaccination and nobody volunteering for natural infection, and indeed natural infection after vaccination.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I thought we were going into lockdown in September...:rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

I find it amusing that you back the scientists to the hilt when they appear to be at odds with the government, but then you trash them when it suits you.

Why are you always just spoiling for an argument? It’s impossible to have a sensible discussion with you.

---------- Post added at 20:51 ---------- Previous post was at 20:48 ----------

I think jfman’s emergency provisions including his year-long supply of loo rolls might have been a slight over-reaction.

Now I must get back to organising our grand Christmas party - with no masks in sight and an abundance of hugs!!

Re: Coronavirus
 

Who stated that?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Exactly who you’d expect to have stated it. ;)

On 5 July.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not me, I think I said August ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well I’m sure you’d agree that science has offered many differing contradictory opinions - it’s impossible to agree with them all. However what is a realistic position to take when considering credibility is who is funding them, why and what other countries leading scientists do. The FDA are expected to shortly announce vaccines for those aged 5-12 whereas we are announcing plans for mass infections to supplement vaccine induced immunity.

As I’ve said before I don’t do British exceptionalism. If other countries are reintroducing masks and maintaining measures with higher coverage of greater efficacy vaccines then I’d bet against us being exceptional every single time.

As ever with the personal remarks and digs. I think you’ll find rarely (if ever) do I refer to my personal perspective instead I consider the pandemic at a population level.

---------- Post added at 09:50 ---------- Previous post was at 09:48 ----------

It remains the emergency brake. If, and when, it’s deployed depends on a large number of factors.

I’ve linked in recent days to articles with night club owners bemoaning having to cancel events and the evidence suggesting no mass return to offices. Personal responsibility has people self selecting their way out of the economy and Old Boy’s wet dream of a return to a 2019 economy is nowhere to be seen. Schools closing appears to have offered some breathing space in the system. But that won’t last forever.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Isn't that what science is? The very reason why statements such as "the science" are contradictory, there is no such thing as "the science". The truth is derived by continually testing the method and comparing results.




Also

and

in the same post........you're the gift that keeps giving, the whole year through

Re: Coronavirus
 

Nobody is disputing that, but it’s an assumption to believe they are all acting in good faith and not in their financial interests. See Monsanto, big tobacco, the Nazis, etc.

Old Boy’s flawed view that the economy will recover in an era of “personal responsibility” are well documented. The number of toilet rolls I own is speculative bullshit.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Considering the amount of bullshit you come out with a years supply would seem reasonable.:D:D:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: England's R number estimate falls to between 0.8 and 1.1

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...study-12374160

Re: Coronavirus
 

Excellent, Let's hope it keeps decreasing (or not increasing)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Excellent news

Re: Coronavirus
 

Hurrah!

I hope not..... I think Paul told me the locksdowns were about over :(

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yes, even Professor Lockdown says there will be no more lockdowns.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Dr Neil Fergusson predicts there will be 46 days in August.

Ah man!!

Re: Coronavirus
 

He described them as extremely unlikely. That's not the same thing.

---------- Post added at 21:27 ---------- Previous post was at 21:24 ----------

For once we agree he's not the best.

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...droidApp_Other

Leading by example I see.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I get royally peeved at the covidiots slagging of Boris for not following the rules, when they've said that they refuse to wear a mask, and will not take a trial vaccine.

Re: Coronavirus
 

mask wearing is now optional , as for the vaccine you can't really force it into people it has to be their choice.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I get royally peeved at the term covidiot directed at people that have freedom of choice, still just about in this country.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's when their 'freedom' affects others. Not having a jab or wearing a mask in enclosed places makes you more likely to pass on this virus even if you have no symptoms.
.
Granted, personal responsibility and giving a toss about anyone else is old fashioned these days.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's much bigger than freedom of choice, it's about responsibility to others. Any potential impact goes beyond that for any individual.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Wearing a mask is a slight inconvenience, not a loss of freedom…

Re: Coronavirus
 

Exactly this. Personal responsibility is "trumped" by self entitlement for some.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Freedom to put other people at risk will naturally make others act in a risk averse manner. Given the economic importance of making people feel safe it’s folly on the part of some politicians to keep pushing the “freedom” rhetoric over minor inconveniences - like masks.

Of all the people I know working from home not a single one has plans to go back to an office even a majority of the time let alone all of the time. Given that’s 40% or so of the workforce “freedom” for others to act like fools has huge economic cost. Given the airborne nature of transmission it’s impossible for employers to make buildings Covid secure, they’re relying on the numbers coming down in society as a whole.

Re: Coronavirus
 

lately in the press there have been a few families speaking of their fit and healthy loved ones wishing they had the vaccine as they as laid dying in their hospital bed. Hope it does not happen to you or anyone you care about ( I assume you have not been jabbed and consider yourself safe?? might be wrong though )

---------- Post added at 20:19 ---------- Previous post was at 20:17 ----------

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-dies-of-covid

Re: Coronavirus
 

Pierre isn't the ardent anti-vaxxer that you think he is - he did say he'd vaccinate his kids for a holiday.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Wow and fu**k me wow. I never thought I’d search for a voice of reason and find it in JFman.

A post that championed freedom. Shouted down by the terrified masses. They’ve really done a number on you.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Strange how thats never been a concern until 'Project Fear' got a grip of people who no longer seem able to think for themselves.

You do realise, I presume, that what you just said not only applies to ANY virus.
Its done so for as long as you have been alive, in fact, pretty much as long as life itself has existed.

Amazing how we have all survived :dozey:

Re: Coronavirus
 

130 000 in the UK haven't survived from Covid. Our worst loss of civilian life since WW2.

A mask, where appropriate, or a small jab doesn't seem an over the top response.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think the people more likely to not be thinking for themselves are the anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers. Probably found all their information down a YouTube rabbit hole of misinformation funded by Russians, Iranians and venture capitalists making a fortune out of economic turmoil.

It’s ultimately in the interests of a lot of state and non-state actors (and some individuals) to drag this out for as long as they can. Politicising mask wearing and vaccinations are a good way to achieve that.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Is that just in the UK and Europe, or is the whole world in on the act?

Re: Coronavirus
 

The good thing about English language misinformation is it will permeate almost everywhere.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Lack of investment in NHS may be hindering recovery of cancer services from Covid
https://www.ft.com/content/953d01bf-...4-cd9ddd740ad0

Re: Coronavirus
 

The claws of privatisation will be out in no time. The bigger the backlog more money to be made. As I said earlier - there’s a lot of corporate interest in hindering our Covid response via misinformation.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Anti-vaccine (or pro-disease if you prefer) protestors are trying to storm the BBC today - https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...London-HQ.html

Small problem, the BBC moved out years ago. For people so keen on 'doing their research', maybe they should have done some research :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Absolute melts thought Television Centre is still the BBC’s HQ, despite the BBC making frequent and prominent use of the environs around Broadcasting House in Portland Place on its live and current affairs programming ever since they moved into the massive new extension there about 10 years ago.

Yep, some epic research done there. :rofl: