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-   -   General : Changes to Virgin TV (2022) (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33710709)

nomadking 31-07-2022 13:06
Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2022)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36129903)
BBC3 & BBC4 failed to start at 7pm this evening, thus messing up the recordings I had of them as they started late.

No idea if this was down to the BBC or another Virgin cock up. I suspect a Virgin cock up as one of their (box generated?) 'This channel is currently unavailable' messages came up at the bottom.
In the past, I have found an issue with not recording, where if you set to record at 7pm, and the recording starts a few seconds earlier than the channel starts. Never tried to repeat it.
Could be related to off-air, BBC3&4 are broadcast in SD, but after 7pm, in HD. Mixing SD and HD in the same recording is never going to be a good idea. VM probably need to switchover to HD, a few minutes before.

Dingbat 31-07-2022 13:46
Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2022)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Media Boy UK (Post 36129811)
XXX Mums will close on August 1st on Virgin on Demand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 36129863)
Oh bloody hell. Gutted
Nothing to do with the other Mr Rooney moving to America as manager of DC United FC?

ozsat 31-07-2022 16:15
Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2022)
 
It is currently on 918 of Sky (just checked) and closes tomorrow - https://helpforum.sky.com/t5/What-s-...2/td-p/4061607

The company behind some of these channels just keep changing the names so most likely the name has been used before - and may again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Media Boy UK (Post 36129935)
I have since been told that XXX Mum did close on Virgin somepoint in 2016.

But programmes from XXX Mum are still on Virgin on Demand for you to pay to watch.

vincerooney 01-08-2022 01:51
Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2022)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingbat (Post 36129956)
Nothing to do with the other Mr Rooney moving to America as manager of DC United FC?
thought you were talking about me then bizarrely hahah as i used to manage DC United on football manager....then i realised how the heck would you know that hahaha

nodrogd 01-08-2022 10:18
Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2022)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36129952)
Could be related to off-air, BBC3&4 are broadcast in SD, but after 7pm, in HD. Mixing SD and HD in the same recording is never going to be a good idea. VM probably need to switchover to HD, a few minutes before.
VM have a standard "Off-air" slate showing when these channels are not broadcasting. These are used on many other channels & are time switched in and out daily without problems. The latest issue only affected some headends & not others, so may be an encoding issue when switching from the slate to the live channel.

nomadking 01-08-2022 10:59
Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2022)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nodrogd (Post 36130032)
VM have a standard "Off-air" slate showing when these channels are not broadcasting. These are used on many other channels & are time switched in and out daily without problems. The latest issue only affected some headends & not others, so may be an encoding issue when switching from the slate to the live channel.
But they are broadcast in SD and then switch to HD. Check what your TV says if you tune in. Do those other channels switch from a SD slate to a HD broadcast? UHD channels(999&228) always broadcast in UHD, even just the slate.

If the switchover to HD occurs after the recording starts in SD, might that not cause problems? Or perhaps the recording starts in HD because of the epg, but the broadcast is still in SD at the time. Going to try it. Also going to check the switchover from HD to SD after the last programme of the night.

What do the freeview channels for BBC3/4 do before 7pm? Does VM gain anything by broadcasting the BBC3/4 slates in SD?

cheekyangus 01-08-2022 11:33
Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2022)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36130035)
But they are broadcast in SD and then switch to HD. Check what your TV says if you tune in. Do those other channels switch from a SD slate to a HD broadcast? UHD channels(999&228) always broadcast in UHD, even just the slate.

If the switchover to HD occurs after the recording starts in SD, might that not cause problems? Or perhaps the recording starts in HD because of the epg, but the broadcast is still in SD at the time. Going to try it. Also going to check the switchover from HD to SD after the last programme of the night.

What do the freeview channels for BBC3/4 do before 7pm? Does VM gain anything by broadcasting the BBC3/4 slates in SD?
BBC3 and BBC4 SD timeshare with CBBC and CBeebies respectively.

On Freeview the only difference is BBC4 HD and CBeebies HD, at time of writing, haven't relaunched since the recent closure of COM7, and BBC3HD is replaced by S4C HD and BBC Scotland Channel HD in Wales and Scotland respectively.

All VM are doing is pointing the channel number to an information slate channel out of hours. The broadcast channel will be broadcasting one of the BBC's children's channels so something else needs to be shown.

epsilon 01-08-2022 17:59
Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2022)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36130035)
But they are broadcast in SD and then switch to HD. Check what your TV says if you tune in. Do those other channels switch from a SD slate to a HD broadcast? UHD channels(999&228) always broadcast in UHD, even just the slate.

If the switchover to HD occurs after the recording starts in SD, might that not cause problems? Or perhaps the recording starts in HD because of the epg, but the broadcast is still in SD at the time. Going to try it. Also going to check the switchover from HD to SD after the last programme of the night.

What do the freeview channels for BBC3/4 do before 7pm? Does VM gain anything by broadcasting the BBC3/4 slates in SD?
Virgin uses a "one size fits all" slate (static video image). Any off-air service will be redirected to the same slate.

Freeview uses a bespoke off-air slate for each channel, which is text based rather than a video image and generated using MHEG for older TVs or hbbTV for newer models.

nomadking 01-08-2022 18:23
Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2022)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epsilon (Post 36130065)
Virgin uses a "one size fits all" slate (static video image). Any off-air service will be redirected to the same slate.

Freeview uses a bespoke off-air slate for each channel, which is text based rather than a video image and generated using MHEG for older TVs or hbbTV for newer models.
Doesn't matter what is or isn't broadcast. My question is over what might happen when its broadcast in SD, on a channel that changes to HD. Can the VM boxes cope with the change in resolution/format?

Performing tests, so should know soon. Also set up tests for end of the days programmes, where it should change from HD to SD.


I'm not trying to state it as fact, just raising the question of whether it might be the cause of the recording issue.

cupcakes aka dd 01-08-2022 18:58
Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2022)
 
Anyone else getting sound dropouts on main BBC1 HD channel?

epsilon 01-08-2022 19:04
Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2022)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36130069)
Doesn't matter what is or isn't broadcast. My question is over what might happen when its broadcast in SD, on a channel that changes to HD. Can the VM boxes cope with the change in resolution/format?

Performing tests, so should know soon. Also set up tests for end of the days programmes, where it should change from HD to SD.

I'm not trying to state it as fact, just raising the question of whether it might be the cause of the recording issue.
It is more complicated than switching from SD to HD, which would be the situation for the start of scheduled broadcasts, changes in the other direction aren't too important. SDT linkage switches to a completely different service going in and out off-air periods, so should adapt to the parameters of that service. It is more complicated though because recordings, on both Freeview and Virgin use identifiers specific to recording and that could be an weak point with potential problems. Your experiment will be interesting but this switching has been ongoing for years with no reported problems.

Not the same mechanism but, when Virgin removes channels, if a user is already "tuned in" they can sometimes continue to watch after the channel is hidden from the EPG. Info may even show that the channel then has a completely different channel number, which is not in the normal EPG range.

I wonder if the recent problems were not related to normal switching. Did the same problem happen with viewers watching live? If there is a problem, no doubt it will be repeated.

idris65 01-08-2022 19:12
Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2022)
 
Yes, loads of soundrops on BBC1 HD West Midlands. Been happening for about five days now. Only on 101 all other channels are fine.

nomadking 01-08-2022 19:46
Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2022)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epsilon (Post 36130073)
It is more complicated than switching from SD to HD, which would be the situation for the start of scheduled broadcasts, changes in the other direction aren't too important. SDT linkage switches to a completely different service going in and out off-air periods, so should adapt to the parameters of that service. It is more complicated though because recordings, on both Freeview and Virgin use identifiers specific to recording and that could be an weak point with potential problems. Your experiment will be interesting but this switching has been ongoing for years with no reported problems.

Not the same mechanism but, when Virgin removes channels, if a user is already "tuned in" they can sometimes continue to watch after the channel is hidden from the EPG. Info may even show that the channel then has a completely different channel number, which is not in the normal EPG range.

I wonder if the recent problems were not related to normal switching. Did the same problem happen with viewers watching live? If there is a problem, no doubt it will be repeated.
The original question was about a problem with recordings of BBC3/4.
I did 3 test recordings. They all had problems with the SD part. They skipped ahead to the HD part, which isn't really a problem. One test playback did go completely haywire in the SD part and didn't skip to the HD part. Not conclusive on the original problem, but it does demonstrate my point about potential issues of mixing SD and HD in the same recording.

epsilon 01-08-2022 20:16
Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2022)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36130078)
The original question was about a problem with recordings of BBC3/4.
I did 3 test recordings. They all had problems with the SD part. They skipped ahead to the HD part, which isn't really a problem. One test playback did go completely haywire in the SD part and didn't skip to the HD part. Not conclusive on the original problem, but it does demonstrate my point about potential issues of mixing SD and HD in the same recording.
My reply was to the following, which seems to be one (or two) of your original questions. :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36130035)
What do the freeview channels for BBC3/4 do before 7pm? Does VM gain anything by broadcasting the BBC3/4 slates in SD?

007stuart 02-08-2022 20:41
Re: Changes to Virgin TV (2022)
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincerooney (Post 36129863)
Oh bloody hell. Gutted
Sending you forts and players for your loss;);)


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