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jfman 27-09-2020 00:35
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36051650)
Your view that Amazon or another global streaming service would not make a serious bid for the football premiership league is not based on actual events.
It’s literally based on actual events. Something has to change to make it viable in 202x versus 2019.

OLD BOY 27-09-2020 01:12
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051651)
It’s literally based on actual events. Something has to change to make it viable in 202x versus 2019.
You may say that. Dream on.

jfman 27-09-2020 09:26
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
It’s a basic concept of capitalism Old Boy - if there’s no business model, as there evidently wasn’t in 2019, something has to shift. £5bn+ isn’t loose change regardless of who owns you.

It’s a huge risk, and a sum that could easily provide a greater return on investment elsewhere in the current economic downturn.

I don’t see what dreams have to do with it. It is clear objective reality if you step back from your all streaming fantasy vision.

OLD BOY 27-09-2020 10:09
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051670)
It’s a basic concept of capitalism Old Boy - if there’s no business model, as there evidently wasn’t in 2019, something has to shift. £5bn+ isn’t loose change regardless of who owns you.

It’s a huge risk, and a sum that could easily provide a greater return on investment elsewhere in the current economic downturn.

I don’t see what dreams have to do with it. It is clear objective reality if you step back from your all streaming fantasy vision.
The football rights Amazon secured last time was designed to test demand for the service and to uncover any technical problems. It was a success, by all accounts.

I’m not sure where your information comes from that Amazon does not have a business model. Is that your assumption or have you seen evidence of this to which the rest of us have not been privy?

I really did not buy your idea that this was a bad risk for Amazon when this was first mooted on here, but I do agree that the pandemic has changed everything and perhaps that is enough to put paid to any plans there might have been considered to bid for the next round. However, they might just see it as an opportunity if bids are much lower from Sky and BT this time around.

jfman 27-09-2020 10:44
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
I think I trust Amazon to know if there was a business model or not. They didn't put their hands in their pockets despite the rights falling in value. I think that's pretty telling.

I'm not sure what they really need to test - the BBC, Sky and many others around the world have been successfully streaming football for many years.

Again - there's nothing stopping Amazon (or anyone else) launching channels to supplement the streaming service on Sky and Virgin if the capacity isn't there to stream to everyone and build up from there as the incumbent rights holder.

ozsat 27-09-2020 13:46
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Judging by the reports of poor pictures for yesterday - it may have been a sucess uncovering any techincal problems but they didn't fix them.

Seem to be 25Hz still.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36051676)
The football rights Amazon secured last time was designed to test demand for the service and to uncover any technical problems. It was a success, by all accounts.

OLD BOY 27-09-2020 14:27
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051687)
I think I trust Amazon to know if there was a business model or not. They didn't put their hands in their pockets despite the rights falling in value. I think that's pretty telling.

I'm not sure what they really need to test - the BBC, Sky and many others around the world have been successfully streaming football for many years.

Again - there's nothing stopping Amazon (or anyone else) launching channels to supplement the streaming service on Sky and Virgin if the capacity isn't there to stream to everyone and build up from there as the incumbent rights holder.
You are the one saying they have no business model. Where did Amazon say they didn’t have one?

You don’t know what they needed to test? We’ve been through this before. With so much money involved, any streaming company would want to be assured that sufficient people would be able and want to stream live matches. They would want to ensure that the infrastructure would support such a proposition. Nothing strange about that at all. This is the UK, not the US.

I have also pointed out that Amazon could decide also to set up conventional-type channels, although whether they would actually want to do something like that is another question.

muppetman11 27-09-2020 14:28
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Amazon aren't looking for the lions share they merely look for opportunities that arise to include with its Prime offering and make it look even more attractive.

If Amazon really wanted Sport in huge amounts it could of already blown a lot of the American broadcasters out the water.

The rights on a territory by territory basis also aren't as appealing for global streamers. Its also worth noting Amazon spent around $6 billion dollars on its entire content budget for the year so to spend more than that just on Premier League Football just for the UK would seem a little far fetched to me.

jfman 27-09-2020 14:37
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36051739)
You are the one saying they have no business model. Where did Amazon say they didn’t have one?
They’re a capitalist entity Old Boy. It stands to reason - it’d be remiss of them in their duties to their shareholders to have developed a credible business model and then not press ahead with it.

Quote:
You don’t know what they needed to test? We’ve been through this before. With so much money involved, any streaming company would want to be assured that sufficient people would be able and want to stream live matches. They would want to ensure that the infrastructure would support such a proposition. Nothing strange about that at all. This is the UK, not the US.

I have also pointed out that Amazon could decide also to set up conventional-type channels, although whether they would actually want to do something like that is another question.
We have indeed been through this all before, I’m not really sure how much evidence you want or need, now that what’s been apparent to me for ages is being picked up in the Telegraph.

The business model and/or delivery model just isn’t there. That could change, however I have my doubts. The UK has a well developed pay-tv market, and streaming isn’t the game changer you portray it to be - it’s only another delivery mechanism of the same thing. It doesn’t create from thin air millions of customers that Sky, BT or Virgin cannot reach.

1andrew1 27-09-2020 14:40
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
This reinforces why many of us think Amazon won't bid big for sports rights anytime soon:
Quote:
“Past analysis we’ve conducted on Amazon’s financials would indicate that while it is able to justify rights acquisitions through the positive effect of the rights on Prime sign-ups (and thus subscription spend plus consumer retail spend), it is difficult to make the numbers stack up for more than two English Premier League packages,” said Richard Broughton, research director at Ampere Analysis, a company data, research and analytics firm that specialises in media. “Once Amazon gets beyond two packages, the spend on rights starts to outweigh the positive impact on Prime sign-ups and consumer spending on retail goods.”

Julian Aquilina, senior research analyst at Enders Analysis, agreed. “Unless the economics of Amazon’s business change in a significant way, it’s not in a position to make these rights profitable on a standalone basis,” he said.
https://videoadnews.com/2020/01/08/a...o-live-sports/

jfman 27-09-2020 14:48
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36051740)
Amazon aren't looking for the lions share they merely look for opportunities that arise to include with its Prime offering and make it look even more attractive.

If Amazon really wanted Sport in huge amounts it could of already blown a lot of the American broadcasters out the water.

The rights on a territory by territory basis also aren't as appealing for global streamers. Its also worth noting Amazon spent around $6 billion dollars on its entire content budget for the year so to spend more than that just on Premier League Football just for the UK would seem a little far fetched to me.
Fundamentally the League needs to change how it sells the rights to suit another broadcaster entering the market. That’s a risk to the league though that they don’t and the rights in value further.

Amazon (or others) don’t want to bid blind to have spent a fortune on the rest while Sky retain the top picks. Similarly they don’t want to bid big to lose out on the rights in 3 years time.

---------- Post added at 13:48 ---------- Previous post was at 13:43 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36051746)
This reinforces why many of us think Amazon won't bid big for sports rights anytime soon:

https://videoadnews.com/2020/01/08/a...o-live-sports/
This is what I’ve been saying for a while. The current situation gives millions of additional customers minimal cost at a key time of year (and I’m sure many keep it going all year). The marginal gains for the next £billion spent would be much lower.

Raider999 27-09-2020 16:53
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36051676)
The football rights Amazon secured last time was designed to test demand for the service and to uncover any technical problems. It was a success, by all accounts.

I’m not sure where your information comes from that Amazon does not have a business model. Is that your assumption or have you seen evidence of this to which the rest of us have not been privy?

I really did not buy your idea that this was a bad risk for Amazon when this was first mooted on here, but I do agree that the pandemic has changed everything and perhaps that is enough to put paid to any plans there might have been considered to bid for the next round. However, they might just see it as an opportunity if bids are much lower from Sky and BT this time around.
Success - how many new Prime subscriptions ? And more importantly how many remained after using their free month?

jfman 27-09-2020 17:42
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 36051773)
Success - how many new Prime subscriptions ? And more importantly how many remained after using their free month?
I think the success is that they got Scudamore to fall for it and roll over the auctions into a second round to drum up interest.

No Netflix, no Facebook, no DAZN. Amazon the sole bidder for a package that Sky/BT didn't want or need. BBC/ITV etc would have killed in the past to have a free to air package of half a dozen to ten games throughout the season but it was never something offered.

Amazon now get half a dozen unique time slots, plus overlapping coverage in the run up to Christmas. It's absolute genius on their part and much like Max's £1.80 Now TV (I pay a more lavish £3.99 at the minute) costs almost nothing for them to provide and it's all money through the balance sheet. Even if a small percentage do some Christmas shopping it's money for nothing.

OLD BOY 27-09-2020 17:44
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 36051773)
Success - how many new Prime subscriptions ? And more importantly how many remained after using their free month?
Well, I am sure there will be a significant enough rise in basic Prime subscriptions to Amazon, but this on its own would not make this an attractive venture. However, add the additional charges to subscribers who took the additional football subscription, and I have no doubt that it would pay, just as it pays Sky and BT to offer the football.

I fail to see why some people seem to think that Amazon cannot make a success of it when Sky and BT can! A profit is a profit, after all.

jfman 27-09-2020 18:49
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36051777)
Well, I am sure there will be a significant enough rise in basic Prime subscriptions to Amazon, but this on its own would not make this an attractive venture. However, add the additional charges to subscribers who took the additional football subscription, and I have no doubt that it would pay, just as it pays Sky and BT to offer the football.

I fail to see why some people seem to think that Amazon cannot make a success of it when Sky and BT can! A profit is a profit, after all.
Yet their own bean counters didn't bid a solitary dime in the first round of the last Premier League rights auction.

It's self-evident why it's harder for a new entrant. First they have to outbid the incumbents - therefore exceed the value that another organisation has placed on the rights. An existing organisation, with an established customer base, and a profitable business model on day 1. In the case of Sky one probably an organisation that places a price premium on these rights above all others as being essential to it's business model.

Amazon wouldn't be profitable on day 1. Not does it have a 12 months sports offering. So immediately it's losing money in year 1 it needs to get back by year 3. No guarantee of retaining rights after all. If it's that easy Netflix will have them, or Facebook.

So you ask yourself how to best use £5bn scratching a hole in your pocket. You look elsewhere.


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