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OLD BOY 13-09-2020 12:03
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36049826)
Surprised Sky or BT didn't bid more than that but it sits quite neatly with Amazon picking up rights for peanuts.
Sky has already indicated that it will not keep bidding upwards for sports rights. I think they have calculated that this has gone far enough, and further huge hikes will not be profitable for them.

As for Amazon, I think you underestimate them massively, but we will see where this leads.

jfman 13-09-2020 12:06
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36049829)
Exactly as that is how l see it.
Perfect business sense for them at Christmas. Likely to align well in November with their Premier League games in December. Far from an all out assault on sports rights creating a compelling 12 month offering.

That would obviously mean billions in sports rights. High risk, what reward?

---------- Post added at 12:06 ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36049830)
Sky has already indicated that it will not keep bidding upwards for sports rights. I think they have calculated that this has gone far enough, and further huge hikes will not be profitable for them.

As for Amazon, I think you underestimate them massively, but we will see where this leads.
They correctly guessed that Premiership rights had fallen, yes, and Netflix/Amazon were nowhere to be seen in that bidding.

Where do these huge hikes come from? Where is the business model that will underpin them?

denphone 13-09-2020 12:12
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36049830)
Sky has already indicated that it will not keep bidding upwards for sports rights. I think they have calculated that this has gone far enough, and further huge hikes will not be profitable for them.

As for Amazon, I think you underestimate them massively, but we will see where this leads.
As before it leads to them picking up the lesser sports rights for peanuts and nothing since has proved otherwise.

jfman 13-09-2020 12:17
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36049833)
As before it leads to them picking up the lesser sports rights for peanuts and nothing since has proved otherwise.
The thing is I don't underestimate them - they're a hugely profitable company with a load of resources at their disposal. However, where's the return on investment coming from? They're not a charity.

Old Boy will doubtlessly say I lack 'vision' - but the facts are they didn't bid for a single package in the first round of bidding for Premiership rights last time out. Their small packages, and this rugby, will drive Prime subscriptions at minimum cost. Lots of low hanging fruit to cash in from at Christmas.

Phunkenstein 13-09-2020 14:16
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36049826)
Surprised Sky or BT didn't bid more than that but it sits quite neatly with Amazon picking up rights for peanuts.
To be fair is it good business to get into a bidding war for a one off tournament? And one that can not be proven will draw subscriptions? Better reserving that money for longer term deals

---------- Post added at 14:16 ---------- Previous post was at 14:09 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36049834)
The thing is I don't underestimate them - they're a hugely profitable company with a load of resources at their disposal. However, where's the return on investment coming from? They're not a charity.

Old Boy will doubtlessly say I lack 'vision' - but the facts are they didn't bid for a single package in the first round of bidding for Premiership rights last time out. Their small packages, and this rugby, will drive Prime subscriptions at minimum cost. Lots of low hanging fruit to cash in from at Christmas.
I would be surprised if they went big for premiership rights in the next auction - as you rightly say, how do they return that investment outside of a new subscription package? I think they’ll remain targeted but maybe make an attempt at at least one season long package.

My opinion is that if Amazon do something big in the world of sports rights, I’d be looking at the NFL in the U.S and something like taking the rights for Sunday Ticket... they can charge a premium and those deals usually run for a number of years... Directv’s last renewal was for 8 years.

Raider999 13-09-2020 15:10
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phunkenstein (Post 36049847)
To be fair is it good business to get into a bidding war for a one off tournament? And one that can not be proven will draw subscriptions? Better reserving that money for longer term deals

---------- Post added at 14:16 ---------- Previous post was at 14:09 ----------



I would be surprised if they went big for premiership rights in the next auction - as you rightly say, how do they return that investment outside of a new subscription package? I think they’ll remain targeted but maybe make an attempt at at least one season long package.

My opinion is that if Amazon do something big in the world of sports rights, I’d be looking at the NFL in the U.S and something like taking the rights for Sunday Ticket... they can charge a premium and those deals usually run for a number of years... Directv’s last renewal was for 8 years.
There current policy seems to be get cheap packages for a limited period.

It would be a big step to commit larger amounts for as long a period as 8 years - especially on a minority sport such as NFL which only runs for a limited amount of time a year. Of course it may not have to pay much to get the rights from Sky.

Their current EPL deal can be covered by people taking out a free months trial so hardly makes them much money.

Phunkenstein 13-09-2020 15:29
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 36049858)
There current policy seems to be get cheap packages for a limited period.

It would be a big step to commit larger amounts for as long a period as 8 years - especially on a minority sport such as NFL which only runs for a limited amount of time a year. Of course it may not have to pay much to get the rights from Sky.

Their current EPL deal can be covered by people taking out a free months trial so hardly makes them much money.
Sunday Ticket is a rights package in the US itself. At the moment Directv are paying something in the region of 1.5 Billion a year for it and it’s the one most speculated to be attracting the interest of the tech giants in the US.

Media Boy UK 13-09-2020 16:15
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Do anyone know why is both Man. City and Man. United games are off this weekend for?

Raider999 13-09-2020 16:17
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phunkenstein (Post 36049862)
Sunday Ticket is a rights package in the US itself. At the moment Directv are paying something in the region of 1.5 Billion a year for it and it’s the one most speculated to be attracting the interest of the tech giants in the US.
But NFL is big in USA - not so in UK.

As far as I am aware Amazon would be bidding for the UK rights not those in USA -so totally irrelevant to this discussion

Phunkenstein 13-09-2020 16:30
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raider999 (Post 36049872)
But NFL is big in USA - not so in UK.

As far as I am aware Amazon would be bidding for the UK rights not those in USA -so totally irrelevant to this discussion
I’m just saying that IF Amazon make any massive outsized play for sports rights in the immediate future I’d expect it to be in the US and not over here... that’s all - Im just using Sunday Ticket as an example... I never mentioned NFL rights in the U.K.

jfman 13-09-2020 16:31
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Media Boy (Post 36049870)
Do anyone know why is both Man. City and Man. United games are off this weekend for?
They played European games in August. The League guaranteed everyone a month off so this got postponed.

Media Boy UK 13-09-2020 16:35
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36049874)
They played European games in August. The League guaranteed everyone a month off so this got postponed.
Oh. Being an Motherwell fan that will not happen anytime soon.:D

cheekyangus 13-09-2020 17:01
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Media Boy (Post 36049876)
Oh. Being an Motherwell fan that will not happen anytime soon.:D
Spawny yesterday. One chance and took it.

:p:

OLD BOY 13-09-2020 19:15
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36049834)
The thing is I don't underestimate them - they're a hugely profitable company with a load of resources at their disposal. However, where's the return on investment coming from? They're not a charity.

Old Boy will doubtlessly say I lack 'vision' - but the facts are they didn't bid for a single package in the first round of bidding for Premiership rights last time out. Their small packages, and this rugby, will drive Prime subscriptions at minimum cost. Lots of low hanging fruit to cash in from at Christmas.
The return on investment comes from football subscriptions, jfman, just as that is how Sky make their profit from it (+ advertising, of course).

I don't know why you are so fixated by the fact that Amazon only picked the bargain basement matches. It was their first toe in the water, and a relatively inexpensive way of judging the success of sports streaming in the UK and their ability to attract subscribers.

They were reported to be pleased with their little experiment, so it remains to be seen what will become of it. As you correctly pointed out, they have very deep pockets, so anything is possible.

---------- Post added at 19:15 ---------- Previous post was at 19:09 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phunkenstein (Post 36049847)
To be fair is it good business to get into a bidding war for a one off tournament? And one that can not be proven will draw subscriptions? Better reserving that money for longer term deals

---------- Post added at 14:16 ---------- Previous post was at 14:09 ----------



I would be surprised if they went big for premiership rights in the next auction - as you rightly say, how do they return that investment outside of a new subscription package? I think they’ll remain targeted but maybe make an attempt at at least one season long package.

My opinion is that if Amazon do something big in the world of sports rights, I’d be looking at the NFL in the U.S and something like taking the rights for Sunday Ticket... they can charge a premium and those deals usually run for a number of years... Directv’s last renewal was for 8 years.
I don't quite get your reasoning. Why can Sky and BT do this but not Amazon?

jfman 13-09-2020 19:26
Re: ESPN, BT, Euro, Premier and Sky Sports news
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36049893)
The return on investment comes from football subscriptions, jfman, just as that is how Sky make their profit from it (+ advertising, of course).

I don't know why you are so fixated by the fact that Amazon only picked the bargain basement matches. It was their first toe in the water, and a relatively inexpensive way of judging the success of sports streaming in the UK and their ability to attract subscribers.

They were reported to be pleased with their little experiment, so it remains to be seen what will become of it. As you correctly pointed out, they have very deep pockets, so anything is possible.
So it's entirely hypothetical at this stage?

I'm fixated by reality Old Boy - the bargain basement rights purchase exists in actual reality. The £5bn+ blow Sky/BT out the water bid exists in your dreams alone.

You do realise that there has to come a limit somewhere where revenues can no longer be extracted from football rights - whether the value is too high, or the revenue streams have become exhausted at the optimum price point. If the market is at that point - as Sky seem to think by bidding less for football rights this time than last - why will Amazon make a success in 2022 when they did not bid in 2019? What changes?

If Amazon do make a roaring success of the bargain basement rights they pick up - and get Prime into the majority of homes - where's the incentive to take the risk of a football package on top of the basic package? At what price point does such a service exist? More expensive than Now TV I'd suspect.

Quote:
I don't auite get your reasoning. Why can Sky and BT do this but not Amazon?
It's debatable whether BT are profiting from their sports rights alone, or offsetting losses elsewhere (e.g. improving market share for broadband).

If it was as easy as "if Sky can do it anyone else can" why have we the graveyard of ITV Digital, Setanta, ESPN and others who have exited the market?

Sky have an established customer base and significant market power in the market. It's far from easy for someone else to just rock up, commit to billions in expenditure and emulate their success from day 1.


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