Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

For once it wasn't me posting it on iii. I go by the rather subtle name of Stazi Phormistan there :LOL:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Already contacted Chris ;)

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If Charles is right that VM have given two fingers to Phorm it is great news. I've not been about much the last week or so as I've now got a time frame for my bionic knee to be installed :)

I'm still waiting to hear from my bank about how Phorm could affect the new banking code, and I'll continue to fight against Phorm regardless of VM dumping them. If we keep on the continued pressure, raising awareness where we can then we can send Phorm packing.

Keep up the great work folks, the fight isn't over yet.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hehehehe, well I don't want to upset my source. it is one thing me telling people to keep an eye out for the article, it is another thing to try and say what is in the article before it is even published. I wouldn't do the latter which is why I was very careful to say it would make an interesting read as opposed to disclosing any of the details I have been given.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I wouldn't worry, Alex. If they are a journalist I am sure they will be aware of the phenomenon of 'chinese whispers'.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sounds thoroughly sensible and appropriate to me. Sadly, there is no edit feature over on iii. I am sure that it would have been corrected by now if there was one.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've calmed down and issued a correction. they don't have an edit facility. don't worry too much - its a fairly wild forum, I don't think the FSA will be at my door. Compared with brettypoos I am the soul of discretion.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yeah but it is a respect thing. I have been very lucky to be given the time I have been given by journalists and media so I would never want to jeopardise that out of respect. It is also very useful to have such contacts so it would be a shame to upset any of them and possibly lose that resource as a result.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Nice. I'd like to imagine they would do as you instructed but I think we will probably see some half-baked fizzle of a cop out. The corporate sneaks at VM will be trying to weigh things up, all the pros and the cons. One of the questions they will be asking themselves is how much damage will Phorm do us? How much damage will it do in the long run? How many customers will we lose vs how many will we retain and returns from churn.

VM will sit on the fence and see what BT does, and what happens to BT. They will not commit to adopt or to drop until they see the results of possible damage to BT.

I'd say more against VM if I could see something more positive come from the anti-phorm league campaign... (http://www.antiphormleague.com) I think those guys are playing it too cool. It's almost as if you could read them as opportunists saying just enough to keep the anti-phorm people on board and looking forward to some new takeup from the churn out. I wish they would put something more professional together and start pumping a bit of money into a proper fight campaign. Sadly I think they too will just sit on the fence and say nice things with very little commitment incase it backfires on them.

Meanwhile I've been researching co-lo hosting and SSL certificates for my anti-phorm server, I was going to ask one of the anti-phorm league to give me some rackspace and bandwidth (and that would have been the ISP I moved to -- Entanet looked promising because they have a LLU so I could dump my BT line as well). The costs £50 p/m for 100 Gigabytes bandwidth for the co-lo (+£1000 hi-end BSD server) and about £20 for a chained SSL certificate from GoDaddy or £76 for 256bit SSL certificate from Thwate. I'm using Zen Internet at the moment for testing purposes but I will probably drop them because they too are playing hide and seek, wait and see.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

By co-incidence, just read this paragraph in 1984;

As O'Brien passed the telescreen a thought seemed to strike him. He stopped, turned aside and pressed a switch on the wall. There was a sharp snap. The voice had stopped.

Julia uttered a tiny sound, a sort of squeak of surprise. Even in the midst of his panic, Winston was too much taken aback to be able to hold his tongue.

" You can turn it off ! " he said.

" Yes ", said O'Brien, " we can turn it off. We have that privilege. "

Virgin, do yourself a favour. Turn it off.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well, if the news does break, I hope CaptJamieHunter gets to read it. A bit of good news, however small in comparison to his current experience, might help a little.

But I agree, there needs to be a totality to the VM rejection. I don't really blame them for watching and waiting as long as they come up with the best decision for their customers (their first priority) and themselves (the business choice is not trivial here). On this occasion, there is only one viable decision and it sounds as if they may have got it right.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

if this has been posted before, Im sorry mods

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rnc1/080404phorm.pdf

its a bit long but does explain a few things

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes, but what I am saying is the twisting was not done by yourself, it was a thrid party. So they cannot lose respect for you there; unless of course, they didn't want you to mention anything at all in which case would change things.
;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:welcome: No 39

that would appear to be a 98:1 ratio since the last 'happy to share my surfing habits' ;) shame we couldnt get a full 100:1 but not to worry.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have taken my revolver into the study and will do the decent thing.:sleep:

;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Maybe this was Virgins cunning plan all along, lure BT into Phorm with the promise of collaboration. Then when BT got so deep into Phorm, VM pull out, and suck up all those thousands of BT customers. BT must have invested a vast amount of money into this to pull out now.

Virgin: "we're sorry, we've listened to our customers and the customers of other ISPs *cough* BT and want to offer everyone a Phorm free zone".

Not getting excited until I see an announcement though.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:D hrhrhrhrhr!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If VM dump Webwise, might that make VM a phreshly phragrant phorm phree Virgin worth a BT customer phrantically and phrenetically phraternising with?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The LSE’s continuous trading hours are 08:00-16:30. Given the time that Charles posted, even he may not have known until after the close of market. We won’t see any effects of the story until the markets open tomorrow. While I expect the shares will open a good deal lower, don’t expect them to ‘tank’. Virgin Media’s lack of commitment was well known and the share price represents Phorm’s global potential. However, hopefully, we’ll be able to look back at this and say it was the beginning of the end for Phorm in the EU. The Charles Stanley report on Phorm states, “our Base Case assumption has the UK going fully commercial during Q3/08; …France in Q1/10; Germany in Q2/10, and Italy and Spain in Q3/10 and Q4/10.� Michael Armitage, the author, is another one who needs his bumps feeling. If Phorm think they’re having problems here, they should wait till they get to Germany.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

To back-up Alex, Kent basically said they were signed up "in principle" to OIX, no actual contracts signed.

---------- Post added at 22:37 ---------- Previous post was at 22:36 ----------

Perhaps this is why they pulled the video, maybe this is actual evidence that they misled the markets.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Home Secretary on 5 live tomorrow am. Post your questions here :-


http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/victoriad...n_the_sho.html

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Don't get too excited...
...there has been an update to the blog.

Update: Virgin's spokesman says that there has "been no change" in Virgin's policy, which you can find at its Webwise page. That says

Virgin Media has signed a preliminary agreement with Phorm to understand in more detail how this technology works but we have not yet decided if it will be introduced.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hrhrhrhrhr! :D . Certainly looks that way. What they need is a catchy targeted ad campaign like:

Lipsmackin thirst quenchin ace tastin motivatin good buzzin cool talkin high walkin fast livin ever givin cool phizzin - Phorm

Or maybe not :sleep:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have just migrated to O2 today and got out of my recently renewed contract, by writing to the BT Chairman's Office and when he gave me my MAC, he stated that if I get charged for early termination to contact him and he would get all charges dropped. So we shall see shortly.

Colin

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thats a good sign, leak limitation using standard PR speak. If they really wanted to deny the rumour then they could have used something other than the "party line".

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Time for us (VM customers anyway) to send an e-mail congratulating them if this is true, but reminding them we will be ex-customers if not. And the BT customers won't be coming either.

Doing mine now.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

There may well be no change in VMs current policy. That certainly doesn't mean the rumour is not true though. It was stated that a Director made the comment and he/she may well have done but that nothing has been officially decided yet. Also just because their policy hasn't changed, doesn't mean it won't :)

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Charles Arthur on his blog.

http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/technolo...hun_phorm.html

For the record, I wish to state that I have not divorced Kate Winslet.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just a thought tonight while driving home. The major Supermarkets online shopping sites might object to Phorm profiling as the only time it goes https is at the point of purchase.

All the product selection is open to Phorm and could be relayed to a rival this would also include the shoppers previous selections over months of shopping (favourites).

I am sure Tesco would like to know what I use Sainsbury for.

I think an email is called for.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

ADVFN will give you that live drubbing of shares that you require. You can sit there with all the flashing colours like the stuff you see on TV and the movies going up and down... and you can join in and pretend you are on the floor at the London Stock Exchange shouting BUY!!! SELL!!! BUY!!! SELL!!! at your screen

:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi All, This is now getting phormnomenally exciting!!!

davethejag

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

To attain the maximum impact wouldn't VM save any announcement concerning ditching webwise/phorm until BT's trial was underway? It would Insure that (presuming this was pre-planned) they had BT's gonads firmly on the trowel...

I know I would...


:D:devsmoke:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Id like to see Kent wind up in the "ministry of love" if you follow me, id be awfully interested to find out what he thiks two plus two really equals.

Now ive watched the Alex V Kent video a good few times and somethings never sat quite right with me, ive been watching it repeatedly over and over to put my finger on exactly whats been irritating me and you know what? ive figured it out.

Its Kent, he looks to me like Walts version of Robin Hood.

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Robbing the poor to pay the rich, just the backwards logic ive come to expect.
Phorm has now officialy RUINED MY CHILDHOOD :(

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Barron sssshhh, FGS!!!

That's my plan for retiring to the Bahamas. Tell no one. Heavens if everyone reading this board finds out they'll all want a cut of the action...

You might want to mention this in your email...

http://www.bcs.org/server.php?show=ConBlogEntry.425

And when I say, retire to the Bahamas, I mean buying an island.

Pete.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

another US bit of copy for NebuAd and a smattering of Phorm,
go over there and point out the tech points he skips over and have some fun helping inform the US readers of EXACTLY how these work.

its a shame we dont have a good tech report for the NebuAd DPI given they are sat in the Uk offices right now waiting on Phorm outcome here, its in our interests to not forget about them....

http://techliberation.com/2008/05/13...#comment-41782

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Barron sssshhh, FGS!!!

That's my plan for retiring to the Bahamas. Tell no one. Heavens if everyone reading this board finds out they'll all want a cut of the action...

You might want to mention this in your email...

http://www.bcs.org/server.php?show=ConBlogEntry.425

And when I say, retire to the Bahamas, I mean buying an island.

Pete.

Update; if you're a web master with logs from the trials in 2006/7 I've made an offer on badphorm to process your log data free of charge into an invoice for BT. I recommend a charge of £10-£100 per page impression for unlicenced copying during the two week trials (according to the value of your content, the cost of equivalent printed material, and a penalty fee for unlicenced use).

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Please can you swap the order of your Kenthood picture so that the arrow is being shot through that d*ckheads ear!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Kent reminds me more of Alan Rickman's Sheriff of Nottingham (arguably the finest performance of any evil villain you will ever see).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek_21...eature=related

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks for the tip. email sent to Tesco. Will post reply if I get one.
I hope you do not get your trip to the Bahamas (this way anyway) but Brighton is nice this time of year.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Does anyone else see the likeness of the younger Palpatine?

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It looks like at least one ISP is attepting to cash in on being anti-Phorm
Although their 'what is Phorm' page is slightly misleading, you can't blame them for trying to win customers.

http://www.surfanytime.com/

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I like it -

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Nice little Free Dial-up number there too complete with user/pass! (they don't usually give them out without a sign-up) very handy...

:)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The whole report was filled with wild optimism from start to finish but you really had to wonder about the international 'assumptions'. "France in Q1/10" anyone told the French yet?? 'Non' is a phrase that comes to mind. German high courts may also have something to say about mass wire-tapping. Lets not forget this recent gem from The Supreme Court of the state of New Jersey...

So that will be a big "HELL NO" from New Jersey at least.

Considering they are incorporated in Delaware the US should have been their 'test bed'. The way Phorm views the UK is obvious - the easy target. The country that tops the league in blind acceptance of privacy invasion. What's one more? Where exactly will they go next if they can't get their intrusive scumware accepted - even in the UK? Talk about crawling before you walk.

Just as an aside - There are lot's of good reasons why companies like Google should oppose Phorm but for the moment they should stay away. If Phorm can turn this into some "David and Goliath" commercial confrontation they will. Let Google et al get involved in the extremely unlikely event that BTPhorm goes into production.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

NebuAd signed up with charter in the US coverage today, it got /. 'ed too

and they are holding a NebuAd public meeting in several US places apparently....

perhaps some US users will get to these, and video tape the WHOLE meeting for proof later of any tech quotes etc.

that info might come in handy for the Uk NebuAd launch if it ever happens here OC.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...geted-ads.html
Charter "enhances" Internet service with targeted ads


http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/05/13/1832256
Charter Is Latest ISP To Plan Wiretapping Via DPI

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think the difference is (sadly) that the US has a formal constitution and a legal system that works (not always in the right way - but it works). Lets face it - BTPhorm have admitted to (100,000+) breaches of the law in this country and no action is/or can be taken. We are governed by muppets.

To quote my previous quote ...

This is the kind of top level legal decision making we need in the UK (and I really don't mind if if the decision had gone a different way). The reality is that in the US this kind of case can make it to The Supreme Court of the state of New Jersey. In the UK we don't have anyone defending our rights because we don't have any formal rights and where we do (EU level) we have no way of enforcing them. Reason enough for Phorm to try the UK first.

UK - The soft under-belly of Europe. Most people in the UK understand it as "rip-off Britain" - the country where you are scammed and ripped-off on a daily basis, your own Government sells you to the snake oil salesmen and you can do nothing about it.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Oh, I don't know. We might be a bit slow some time but when the case is judged it might be decided that a fine per offense should be applied just like a few businesses think illegal file sharers should be fined per offense.


He may also decide that individual engineers are guilty as well as directors.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I knew I'd heard that phrase before when Kent was stressing the point that you could turn it off during the Town Hall meeting! Years since I read it, maybe I will have to again sometime...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Kent clearly went over to the darkside - where they have cookies ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Joined..v confusing..I've got "LSE:PHRM" onscreen at the mo, down 2.9%..is that right?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes - two small trades at opening - down 50p

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Funnily enough the building that the town hall meeting was held was used in the film of 1984 as the exterior facade of the ministry of love.

hmm.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I sense the hand of George Orwell's ghost at work.

(In 1984 the purpose of the Ministry of Love is to enforce loyalty and love of Big Brother through fear, torture, and brainwashing).

How was it for you Alexander? :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Another Phorm reference:

http://www.eaca.be/news/newsletterar...sletter=77#981

About half way down "MEPs raise questions on consumer data protection and advertising"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Poor b*stard Kent just can't get any stability on that PHRM stock...my heart bleeds as I watch the markets (!) ;)

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Down 13.1% in an hour and forty minutes..am I reading that right?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Slightly more now, down 237.5p since opening. Last trade was 1450p at 09:42.

BTW seems Charles Arthur is not the only member of the press to have heard the rumours about VM, it has been going around for a couple of weeks now. I have it from a good source that we are likely to see an official VM Phorm kicking in the next couple of weeks.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The share price drop is nice to see, unfortunately they are all small trades at the moment.

It would be good news indeed to see VM pull out of the deal with Phorm, let's hope the rumours are substantiated.

However, even then I feel that it's very important to keep pressure on the ISPs with the simple message "No behavioural advertising, remember what happened with Phorm."

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

ahh damn i missed the boat was looking to short spreadbet this @ £5 per point right after the open. i would have netted over 500 notes.


ho hum.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The V of Virgin, turned into a 2 finger salute to Phorm would make an ideal graphic if the rumours that Virgin have dumped them are true. Pity I have no artistic ability whatsoever :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Maybe you could apply for a job as a Phorm logo designer then ;) bwahahaha

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

At least if this is announced then it is good news for those still stuck with VM, I hope thye have learnt theior lesson on this and don't go looking for other companies that are intrusive like phorm.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

found this http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...-users-replace
they must opt out.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

They need the help that Alexander can give he is the only true champion on this front as privacy internatioinal would not have been in our fight helping us.

Ravenheart I am not that good at graphics still lerning but is this similar to what you wanted.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Syed Kamall and Robert Evans are both my MEP's, good to see them working on this.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I wish I had some spare cash at the moment I would register d-p-i.org and put up a site called "Deep Packet Infection". Actually nodpi.org might be better.

:)

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You know this is very interesting. The opt-out mechanism sounds like Phorm and a trading friend told me that last Friday's spike in share price was to do with a new deal "going live" soon, which I took to be the trials at BT. I wonder whether this might just be Phorm? Does anyone know the opt-out mechanism, if any, for NebuAd or any other data raper?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've been trying to find out why BT Beta forum posts don't seem to feature on Google unless quoted somewhere else.

I wonder if they are blocking the Googlebot? - perhaps the forum mods are trying to keep Webwise away from the forums?

Their robots.txt either doesn't exist or is well hidden.

A search for "beta.bt.com/bta/forums/thread" gives 6,780 hits with plenty of beta forum threads in the results
A "search within results" check for "webwise" reduces this to 17, with not a single result from the official Webwise threads (despite there being three lengthy threads on their board)

A "search within results" check for "phorm" on the same starting point gives
10 hits, of which two are BT Beta forum posts - and the hits relate to the official opening moderator posts on one Webwise thread and the FAQ page on Webwise.

Pretty hypocritical to snoop on our browsing at Layer 7 and then manage to keep Google away from the relevant public discussion threads?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It isn't Phorm it is NebuAd. And I wouldn't be holding my breath if I was them they are on the brink of being involved in some legal messes due to their ISP partners "forgetting" to send out the letters informing the customers of the new "service".

NebuAd and similar companies are coming under a lot of attention from US politicians and privacy groups at the moment, it won't be long before the US public are up in arms about it.

Oh and the spike last Friday was nothing to do with a new deal either. According to my sources in the City it was based on speculation that the BT Trials will be starting in next couple of weeks.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Any donations this would cost £17.98 for 2 yrs I am willing to help pay for it is there enough of us to band together to help protect the internet from this virus.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No please don't start the donations thing again lol. I will get it when I have some spare cash.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

My emphasis.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Apparently Phorm's annual report and accounts have just been published. They are supposed to be on Phorm's web site but I can't see them.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If you have a look over on badphorm I've analysed the Charter opt out page redirects, and noted the cookie details.

Which reminds me I must make this version of Dephormation available more widely, it logs all the redirects etc without needing a proxy, if anyone's interested in a copy.

Charter looks a lot like BTs original Phorm opt out (but doesn't refer to the Webwise domain). I don't think its Phorm, but it looks similar client side.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

BetBlowWhistler where was that and what date was it posted where ever it is?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've been looking - I cant find it either

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

found them http://www.phorm.com/reports/2007_Final_Results.pdf

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks for this. Good to see the ICO hook in Kent's nose beginning to drag him slowly forward (like those smoking cure adverts!) (there's an idea for a very clever graphic artist with some Photoshop skills)

So the Webwise invitation page will be displayed how? and where? By traffic interception? By interrupting my request for http://news.bbc.co.uk and giving me a Webwise invitation page instead?

If that is the plan, then its still an illegal interception of my surfing.
They need to send the invitation either by email, or by a popup when browsing the ISP customer pages - not when I am browsing the web in general.

And of course even then, the whole system is still illegal on several counts.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It isn't Phorm, it is NebuAd:

Source: http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/200...r-to-inse.html

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

"The Group made no charitable ... contributions"

At least they're even handed...

"The Company is unable to pay a dividend"

See, I told you he was more like the Sheriff of Nottingham.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks I will give it a read when I get back from my meeting.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Actually I found it on the iii site under the overview heading, dated the 10th (April) iirc.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

To be a Phorm logo designer you only need a sheet of tracing paper and someone elses design :p:

Btw I heard the latest Phorm logo guy is out at the local church graveyard taking rubbings in anticipation of Virgin Media's adoption news. ROFL

---------- Post added at 13:40 ---------- Previous post was at 13:31 ----------



SurfAnytime
0845 604 1528
username = surf
password = surf

Pobox
0845 604 0259
username = free
password = free

Fast
0844 535 2001
username = fast
password = fast

Don't forget to add 141 at the beginning in order to withhold your telephone number.

e.g. 14108456040259

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yet again - selective to the point of disinformation:

From BetBlowWhistler's post:

"The Information Commissioner who is responsible for enforcing the Data Protection Act (DTA) and Privacy and Electronic Communications Regulations (PECR) has said Phorm products will need to be 'opt-in' for them to comply with PECR regulations, which means each ISP customer will need to explicitly consent to having their web use tracked."

and

"Phorm said it has started dialogue with the Information Commissioner's Office, "who are pleased with the way that we have engaged with technical experts and concerned individuals following the announcement of the service". It also said it has met with other online privacy stakeholder and has had with encouraging results."


These two events were at least one month apart chronologically the latter being all but retracted by the ICO by the announcement that the product should be opt-in!

God that man is soooo slippery - he is totally incapable of making any kind of statement that doesn't belie his deviousness!


:D


EDIT: Thanks BadPhormula for the free dial-up numebers and details :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Forget Google coming to the rescue. Google are the enemy too. If this DPI ***** takes off you can expect Googleb*strds to be getting their dirty sneaky hands on it as well. Don't forget Phorm is a public traded company and the Googleb*strd only needs start slurping up shares in order to get its dirty big proboscis into our personal data.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:welcome: 900

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hackers used packet sniffers to filch credit card data

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...card-data.html

A sign of things to come?

So will the fact that inspection equipment will become widely available affect changes to the credit card/banks terms and conditions regarding fraud?

I mean if i was in control of a financial institustion i would be all over my terms and conditions regarding fraud like a dog eating rhubarb.

It seems to me that using your cards online AP (Anno Phormini) means your informed that there an unacceptable risk and therefore my institution wont pay out if theres been fraud committed whilst buying online.

Seems like the only reason the hapless idiots got caught was because they had no idea how to actualy write software that could be restarted should the server be rebooted. (a fairly straighforward task under unix flavoured systems)
Now had they been able to actualy test software before deploying (ie had they been rational) i doubt they would have been caught.

in this case the packet sniffers where merely background programs (simmilar to trojans and keyloggers on a home computer) however when you move on to dedicated hardware inspectors whos job it is to actively sniff, detection becomes even more difficult and administration of rogue code becomes exponentialy easier, a single on site visit is enough to compromise an entire exchange.
And with our ever depreciating track record of actualy catching and convicting cyber criminals the outlook is good for criminals, bad for the people at large.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Read on the BT forum if you use OZ or Fon they will not route the web request to the webwise/phorm spyware, so one way round the issue for a quick fix till one can get out of the contract, also if thats true then they can do the same for the opt ins, done by mac hub what ever they use, no cookies no opt out and no interception unless you are a mug, like the opt in for BTFon.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This was one of the first things about Phorm/Webwise that caused alarm, because we didn’t need to know how it would work technically to see the problem. Yes, your request will be hijacked and you’ll be shown an interstitial consent page.

If someone goes to visit, say, http://www.hsbc.co.uk/, they may instead end up at some ‘strange’ page they weren’t expecting. At this point, I hope they’d stop. If it were one of my relatives, I’d hope they’d also contact me and ask my advice. I don’t want them to start thinking that page hijacking is normal and nothing to worry about. If the strange behaviour is being caused by malware on their computer, no amount of fancy Phorm anti-phishing technology in the network is going to be able to protect them.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Phorm have been rather naughty in their Annual Report. They state that they have exclusive agreements with VM, TT and BT and that trials will commence shortly and (here is the naughty part)

Which is basically an out and out lie. Trials are to begin with BT shortly sure, but VM and TT have not mentioned progressing to any trials and furthermore VM have stated publicly that they have not signed any agreement to deploy the technology.

Other than that their Annual Report is just the same old story they have been spouting in the press for the last 3 months. Their operating costs were quite high last year though certainly more than the cash they reported as having on hand in the annual report, so it is difficult to see how they will sustain the ongoing operating costs without acquiring more investment from somewhere. Their market capital is too volatile to make any forecasts on at the moment so it is difficult to see how much money they actually have in order to go forward.

There will be substantial costs involved in deploying the technology if it should ever get to that phase. Not only will they have hardware costs but installation costs will be significant too.

Lets see what their next annual report has to offer ;)

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Of course some of them may even be brave enough to ring telephone support, and half an hour to an hour later will be told that it looks like they might have spyware, but they can remove it by formatting their C:\ drive and rebooting their router.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

can someone remind me of the date that the ICO said they expected this to be 'opt-in' please?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Phorm aren't the only ones spinning ********. Recall VM customer zone 3 April 2008 said (now withdrawn);

"[We] will be writing to you nearer the time to advise when the solution will be ‘switched on’ providing more detail of what this will mean to you. Given the benefits of Webwise, we’re pleased to be offering you this service and making your web experience safer and more relevant."

They might be denying it now; but they *did* make it very clear on their own web site they planned to rollout.

Also from the FAQ

Why has Virgin Media >>>partnered<<< with Phorm?
We are very keen to ensure our customers have a safer online experience, but without blocking access. In this respect Webwise allows us to alert customers that they may be attempting to visit a site known to be fraudulent. Additionally, by providing customers with more relevant advertising, they should be able to find products and services that are more interesting for them.
Will customers be able to decide whether to use the system?
Customers won’t be forced to use the system, and will have the choice to keep their internet experience exactly as it is now. As we get closer to launch we’ll explain how this will work.

Virgin could redeem themselves, but they have can't rewrite history. They won't regain my trust quickly.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

May I suggest the role of deceased?:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Would you say the attached extract from the Annual Report was an accurate representation of the current situation?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

sometime early Aprill if you check Portly_Giraffe posts earlier as we were both incontact with them over emails.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/04...phorm_tougher/

links to ICO statements are in this.

(The link to the 'Phorm Files' at the very bottom of The Register front page is a good way to find the main events)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi Alex@phorm have you been given permission to speak to the forum members and answer a few questions.

First what has happened to the recording of the public meeting since phorm wanted to show they were transparent?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well I did enjoy reading the annual 2007 Phorm report - some highlights for your delectation...

refers to the "exclusive agreements to adopt our online advertising platform" with BT, VM and TalkTalk (a statement not supported by subsequent evidence nor by statements of VM in particular),

refers to ICO pat on the back, (the pat on the back they think they had got, before the ICO rejected their opt-out model and said they had to be opt-IN),

refers to "extensive due diligence" (the "irrelevant to the UK" report by the somewhat tainted Ernst and Young, and also refers to the oft misdescribed PIA, (actually an interim privacy report, and a "late stage" PIA that hasn't been published yet - although it was due end of April), and despite the fact that all this "due diligence" did not suitably anticipate the many changes that would be required to their model to even begin to make it legal in UK/EU - hence all the retrofitting that has apparently been going on behind the scenes at BT. (BT - We are developing an alternative opt-in model...etc. etc.)

refers to implementation being "on track" when in fact it is seriously behind schedule as far as BT trials are concerned (it's so much more inconvenient when you have to tell people in advance about the trials instead of doing them secretly and illegally, and it is so tedious having to retrofit the technology to try and keep up with all those scaremongering privacy campaigners.)

refers to the fact that he is in discussion with "several other UK ISPs" and is in a trial phase with them. Names please? That will be an interesting claim to follow through.

refers to the denial that they store data, (despite the Phorm claim elsewhere in promotional interviews that they can use the information on what pages you viewed 3 days earlier).

My favourite Phorm articles and documents are always the one's where Kent Ertugrul is given a free hand - he really does love to spin.