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OLD BOY 18-09-2019 19:48
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36010614)
Given how much you espouse streaming as the be all and end all of your viewing its rather strange that you are still a Virgin Media customer.
It is not at all strange as I have explained to you before that we are currently in transition, and you cannot watch everything you want by streaming without commercials and until I can do this on one box, I will continue to use both methods. I did switch my Sky Cinema subscription to Now TV for a year, but I found the separate watch lists, lack of sub-titles and low quality HD rather annoying and my wife couldn't cope with it by herself. All this will change, of course, but we are not there yet...

Ultimately, I am looking for VM to offer bundles of streaming services in place of channels. That's the future I look forward to.

---------- Post added at 19:48 ---------- Previous post was at 19:45 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36010617)
We will see if they stand the test of time in the same way. I'm going to say "no".
We wouldn't expect anything less from you, jfman. Your response has given me supreme confidence that I must be on to something. :p:

pip08456 18-09-2019 19:54
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
If VM are looking to offer streaming bundles one would hope they are negotiating now.

There could be other agregators gearing up. All that's needed is internet.

OLD BOY 18-09-2019 19:56
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36010624)
If VM are looking to offer streaming bundles one would hope they are negotiating now.

There could be other agregators gearing up. All that's needed is internet.
That's right. Virgin are a tad slow, aren't they? Prime was only added this year.

One would hope that they are already talking to Disney about their launch, for example.

denphone 18-09-2019 20:02
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36010620)
It is not at all strange as I have explained to you before that we are currently in transition, and you cannot watch everything you want by streaming without commercials and until I can do this on one box, I will continue to use both methods. I did switch my Sky Cinema subscription to Now TV for a year, but I found the separate watch lists, lack of sub-titles and low quality HD rather annoying and my wife couldn't cope with it by herself. All this will change, of course, but we are not there yet...

Ultimately, I am looking for VM to offer bundles of streaming services in place of channels. That's the future I look forward to.
Like a politician there is a answer for everything... Trouble is one often contradicts another..;)

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36010627)

One would hope that they are already talking to Disney about their launch, for example.
Have you ever thought that Disney might have not talked to them or Sky currently.

pip08456 18-09-2019 20:06
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36010627)
That's right. Virgin are a tad slow, aren't they? Prime was only added this year.

One would hope that they are already talking to Disney about their launch, for example.
If they don't get their finger out they will lose. An agregator with a good search option so people can find what they want from wherever will beat the opposition hands down. (I claim copyright on this idea:D).

Sky Q and Tivo will become outdated.

App on phone, cast to tv etc.

jfman 18-09-2019 20:07
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36010620)
We wouldn't expect anything less from you, jfman. Your response has given me supreme confidence that I must be on to something. :p:
Given the frequently contradictory statements you make on these matters I'm sure you'll see the light in 3 or 4 years time, as with Premiership rights. :)

oliver1948uk 18-09-2019 20:18
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
You rightly say that the V6 includes the ability to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime. Yet their subscriptions are not included in the VM monthly fee. To me, therefore, they do not seem truly integrated. If as some predict the traditional channels disappear, how will VM make money just streaming the likes of Netflix and Amazon Prime when the subscriptions are paid direct to the streaming companies?

pip08456 18-09-2019 20:19
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36010640)
Given the frequently contradictory statements you make on these matters I'm sure you'll see the light in 3 or 4 years time, as with Premiership rights. :)
Maybe you'll have a different outlook in 3 or 4 years.

The big streamers will be up and running by then.

OLD BOY 19-09-2019 07:32
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36010634)
Like a politician there is a answer for everything... Trouble is one often contradicts another..;)

---------- Post added at 20:02 ---------- Previous post was at 20:01 ----------



Have you ever thought that Disney might have not talked to them or Sky currently.
On your first point, it would be good to know what this 'contradiction' is, as you keep going on about it.

On the second, has it occurred to you that Virgin could contact Disney? You have to be proactive to succeed in this competitive world.

---------- Post added at 07:32 ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by oliver1948uk (Post 36010659)
You rightly say that the V6 includes the ability to stream Netflix and Amazon Prime. Yet their subscriptions are not included in the VM monthly fee. To me, therefore, they do not seem truly integrated. If as some predict the traditional channels disappear, how will VM make money just streaming the likes of Netflix and Amazon Prime when the subscriptions are paid direct to the streaming companies?
It is true that the pricing is not yet integrated, but the content is. You can search for programmes on the V6, and you can bookmark them so they appear in your recordings list ('My Shows').

Sky have integrated Netflix into their pricing, and you get a price reduction if you take Netflix and Sky Box Sets. That is the way we are heading. In the end, Sky and Virgin will have bouquets of streaming services with a discount applied in the same way as they do now with bundles of channels.

As more streamers come on the scene, they will try to get their apps on as many platforms as possible and they will be willing to do wholesale deals in order to achieve it.

jfman 19-09-2019 08:07
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36010663)
Maybe you'll have a different outlook in 3 or 4 years.

The big streamers will be up and running by then.
I'd say it's unlikely. There's not room in the market for everyone to be Netflix.

denphone 19-09-2019 13:28
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Amazon Prime Video UK Acquires DC Universe’s ‘Swamp Thing’,

https://www.tvwise.co.uk/2019/09/ama...mh0FoQOWzdvU7o

OLD BOY 19-09-2019 14:50
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36009836)

Britbox has to survive in your opnion because it represents your one eyed vision of the future but of course that vision is falling apart in front of your very eyes.
I don't know why you think that, but I'm not losing any sleep over something that hasn't been corroborated.

In the meantime, Britbox now seems to have Ofcom's approval. At least they have finally arrived in the present century.

https://www.rapidtvnews.com/20190919...#axzz5zygWK8D5

The imminent BritBox UK SVOD service, led by broadcasters ITV and the BBC, has received a boost from broadcast regulator Ofcom which has ruled that there is not a significant risk that the BBC’s involvement may distort the market or create an unfair competitive advantage.

muppetman11 19-09-2019 16:08
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
BT leads £30bn push for copper broadband switchover deadline

https://news.sky.com/story/bt-leads-...dline-11813294

Faster speeds for streamers.

SnoopZ 19-09-2019 23:52
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36010771)
Amazon Prime Video UK Acquires DC Universe’s ‘Swamp Thing’,

https://www.tvwise.co.uk/2019/09/ama...mh0FoQOWzdvU7o
That was a waste as it got cancelled after a few episodes.

cheekyangus 20-09-2019 13:03
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Channel 5 and Comedy Central UK box sets are coming to BritBox UK.

The latter is their UK-made series, not the US stuff.

https://www.rxtvlog.com/2019/09/c5co...ritbox-uk.html

heavyside 20-09-2019 14:43
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Channel 4 have a lot of interesting programmes - especially the Walter Presents shows - and I am hoping that it joins Britbox. At present with the impossible to skip ads they are a pain to try and watch. It's a bit of a slim hope, though, as most, if not all, of its shows are bought in from outside sources rather than produced by the channel itself and I imagine that the rights would be a nightmare to negotiate. The news that Channel 5 are only adding the shows they produce on their own seems to confirm this. I fear that without a broad cross-section of back-catalogue material from all the main channels that the Britbox offering may be too thin to be of interest to many people.

muppetman11 20-09-2019 15:16
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyside (Post 36010892)
Channel 4 have a lot of interesting programmes - especially the Walter Presents shows - and I am hoping that it joins Britbox. At present with the impossible to skip ads they are a pain to try and watch. It's a bit of a slim hope, though, as most, if not all, of its shows are bought in from outside sources rather than produced by the channel itself and I imagine that the rights would be a nightmare to negotiate. The news that Channel 5 are only adding the shows they produce on their own seems to confirm this. I fear that without a broad cross-section of back-catalogue material from all the main channels that the Britbox offering may be too thin to be of interest to many people.
Channel 4 have also just signed a deal with Sky which includes it's Boxsets.
https://www.skygroup.sky/corporate/m...ng-partnership

MichaelScofield 20-09-2019 20:02
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36010771)
Amazon Prime Video UK Acquires DC Universe’s ‘Swamp Thing’,

https://www.tvwise.co.uk/2019/09/ama...mh0FoQOWzdvU7o
Great News. Just need someone to pick up Doom Patrol and Young Justice S3 aswell.

Legendkiller2k 20-09-2019 20:24
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelScofield (Post 36010932)
Great News. Just need someone to pick up Doom Patrol and Young Justice S3 aswell.
I think Netflix are going in for doom patrol.

OLD BOY 21-09-2019 00:44
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36010640)
Given the frequently contradictory statements you make on these matters I'm sure you'll see the light in 3 or 4 years time, as with Premiership rights. :)
Can you actually give me one contradictory statement I have made? Best to rely on the facts, jfman, which you seem to like stretching to the extreme.

I admit when I make mistakes. You just change the subject.

jfman 21-09-2019 07:19
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Anyone can search and prove your statement there false. It’s also been ages since I posted that so I’ll put your response down to a few beers on a Friday evening and looking for an argument.

denphone 21-09-2019 07:54
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnoopZ (Post 36010851)
That was a waste as it got cancelled after a few episodes.
But one mans meat is another mans poison.;)

1andrew1 21-09-2019 13:45
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyside (Post 36010892)
Channel 4 have a lot of interesting programmes - especially the Walter Presents shows - and I am hoping that it joins Britbox. At present with the impossible to skip ads they are a pain to try and watch. It's a bit of a slim hope, though, as most, if not all, of its shows are bought in from outside sources rather than produced by the channel itself and I imagine that the rights would be a nightmare to negotiate. The news that Channel 5 are only adding the shows they produce on their own seems to confirm this. I fear that without a broad cross-section of back-catalogue material from all the main channels that the Britbox offering may be too thin to be of interest to many people.
Walter Presents is non-UK content so by definition can't join BritBox.

heavyside 21-09-2019 16:16
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36011011)
Walter Presents is non-UK content so by definition can't join BritBox.
Sad, but true.

RichardCoulter 21-09-2019 17:05
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Which is the cheapest way to obtain a stick to access the catch up services for channels 1 to 5?

A friend wants to turn her bedroom TV into a smart TV.

Thanks.

Mad Max 21-09-2019 18:42
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36010984)
Anyone can search and prove your statement there false. It’s also been ages since I posted that so I’ll put your response down to a few beers on a Friday evening and looking for an argument.
Wow, talk about the kettle calling the pot black!

jfman 21-09-2019 19:10
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36011024)
Which is the cheapest way to obtain a stick to access the catch up services for channels 1 to 5?

A friend wants to turn her bedroom TV into a smart TV.

Thanks.
The absolute cheapest is probably a Now TV stick. In store at Tesco/Asda these have been as low as £5 at some points, but can generally be picked up below £20.

Argos currently have it with one month entertainment, cinema and a one day pass for Sky Sports for £20. Can register and cancel online. The stick will continue to work with other apps.

OLD BOY 21-09-2019 19:24
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36011035)
The absolute cheapest is probably a Now TV stick. In store at Tesco/Asda these have been as low as £5 at some points, but can generally be picked up below £20.

Argos currently have it with one month entertainment, cinema and a one day pass for Sky Sports for £20. Can register and cancel online. The stick will continue to work with other apps.
I'm not sure if that's right, but happy to be corrected. I thought you needed the Now TV box and an aerial to get the terrestrials, which was the question.

EDIT: I've just noticed that you can watch the terrestrials on demand, but not live, on the stick.

jfman 21-09-2019 19:55
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Yep, as asked all the catch up services are there. I’m guessing the “dumb” TV has a DTT tuner, otherwise they’d not have been watching much for the last 7 years.

cheekyangus 21-09-2019 21:10
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36011024)
Which is the cheapest way to obtain a stick to access the catch up services for channels 1 to 5?

A friend wants to turn her bedroom TV into a smart TV.

Thanks.
The cheapest is probably NowTV... but that puts their services first, which are obviously paid. A Now TV box is basically a rebadged Roku, Sky own a stake in Roku. Though Roku is more expensive, I'd say get a Roku, simply to not have the first few services on the menu not being customisable. You can add the Sky services, but they are being forced in you face with NowTV, wasting screen space, but are optional with Roku, if you don't want them don't add them.

If they have a games console already, use that. PS4 or XBox One have most of the major steaming apps.

Mad Max 21-09-2019 21:20
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheekyangus (Post 36011057)
The cheapest is probably NowTV... but that puts their services first, which are obviously paid. A Now TV box is basically a rebadged Roku, Sky own a stake in Roku. Though Roku is more expensive, I'd say get a Roku, simply to not have the first few services on the menu not being customisable. You can add the Sky services, but they are being forced in you face with NowTV, wasting screen space, but are optional with Roku, if you don't want them don't add them.

If they have a games console already, use that. PS4 or XBox One have most of the major steaming apps.
I'd agree with that, I have the Now TV stick, I think it cost me £14.99 or thereabouts, and I pay £3.49 per month for access to their Sky Atlantic shows, which I find to be excellent.

cheekyangus 21-09-2019 21:41
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36011058)
I'd agree with that, I have the Now TV stick, I think it cost me £14.99 or thereabouts, and I pay £3.49 per month for access to their Sky Atlantic shows, which I find to be excellent.
I got my Now TV box for £7.50, I used £5 Clubcard points (so it was £2.50) and I didn't need the box, I did it for the Now TV Entertainment Pass (I used my games console), so I gave the box to relatives so they could use the Catch-up apps.

I have a Roku stick too but if the money is tight and you are fine with the annoyance of half the screen being NowTV, a NowTV device is a cheap Roku.

The problem with a NowTV device is they want an account set up, with card. A Roku needs an email address, but not card details. There is a way around the NowTV card situation, well there used to be, I've not done it for a while, but it's a tad fiddly.

RichardCoulter 22-09-2019 01:47
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Thanks, i'll pass the information on.

denphone 23-09-2019 12:50
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Just to show that the Netflix customer base can fall as well as rise.

https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2019...eid=3598503789

OLD BOY 23-09-2019 13:43
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36011203)
Just to show that the Netflix customer base can fall as well as rise.

https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2019...eid=3598503789
That's right and Netflix shares have taken a tumble too, with the prospect of increased competition with Disney+ launching in November.

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2019...ck-to-plummet/

And I don't like this news at all!

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2019...vr-recordings/

TiVo seems to have forgotten its basic principles! I hope this doesn't dribble through to VM's V6s.

[Extract]

TiVo is testing inserting pre-roll ads on DVR recordings.

According to a report from Zats Not Funny, some viewers have begun to see adverts preceding their recorded videos. It is believed that this move is a part of a wider move from TiVo to monetise its platform.

denphone 23-09-2019 14:07
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011209)
That's right and Netflix shares have taken a tumble too, with the prospect of increased competition with Disney+ launching in November.

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2019...ck-to-plummet/
Customers also are very price sensitive as Muppetman has repeatedly stated in the past.

---------- Post added at 14:07 ---------- Previous post was at 14:04 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011209)
And I don't like this news at all!

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2019...vr-recordings/

TiVo seems to have forgotten its basic principles! I hope this doesn't dribble through to VM's V6s.

[Extract]

TiVo is testing inserting pre-roll ads on DVR recordings.

According to a report from Zats Not Funny, some viewers have begun to see adverts preceding their recorded videos. It is believed that this move is a part of a wider move from TiVo to monetise its platform.
l thought you would have realised that this was absolutely inevitable OB as its all about monetising in this modern age.

oliver1948uk 23-09-2019 14:47
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
If it keeps down costs to the customer, the adverts at the beginning seem a good idea to me. We don't all have bottomless pockets!

OLD BOY 23-09-2019 14:50
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36011217)
Customers also are very price sensitive as Muppetman has repeatedly stated in the past.

---------- Post added at 14:07 ---------- Previous post was at 14:04 ----------



l thought you would have realised that this was absolutely inevitable OB as its all about monetising in this modern age.
I haven't read any posts that have forecast the addition of compulsory ads for recordings on an STB!

denphone 23-09-2019 14:50
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oliver1948uk (Post 36011223)
If it keeps down costs to the customer, the adverts at the beginning seem a good idea to me. We don't all have bottomless pockets!
Exactly as adverts have never worried me one iota as if it keep prices down that seems a fair swap to me..

OLD BOY 23-09-2019 14:51
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oliver1948uk (Post 36011223)
If it keeps down costs to the customer, the adverts at the beginning seem a good idea to me. We don't all have bottomless pockets!
How is that keeping costs down?

denphone 23-09-2019 14:59
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011227)
How is that keeping costs down?
Adverts is a extra way of monetising content.

OLD BOY 23-09-2019 16:18
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36011229)
Adverts is a extra way of monetising content.
I appreciate that, Den, but that's not the answer to the question I asked! The cost of subscribing with VM for television services isn't going to reduce costs for customers.

I suppose we can be thankful that you will be able to fast forward over them...and through the ads thzt prscede the programme you want to watch from the TV channel! Grr!

Legendkiller2k 23-09-2019 16:48
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36011225)
Exactly as adverts have never worried me one iota as if it keep prices down that seems a fair swap to me..
Netflix have made it perfectly clear they won't have adverts https://www.thewrap.com/netflix-to-remain-ad-free/

denphone 23-09-2019 16:54
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legendkiller2k (Post 36011251)
Netflix have made it perfectly clear they won't have adverts https://www.thewrap.com/netflix-to-remain-ad-free/
That will change l suspect given the considerable opportunity of monetising its content especially when other big streamers will be doing it.

gba93 23-09-2019 17:21
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36011252)
That will change l suspect given the considerable opportunity of monetising its content especially when other big streamers will be doing it.
"No Adverts" could be their USP in days to come

denphone 23-09-2019 17:26
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gba93 (Post 36011254)
"No Adverts" could be their USP in days to come
Not if their bottom line comes under pressure.

jfman 23-09-2019 18:50
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Netflix shares taking a pasting from their high in July. Obviously nobody is expecting it to deliver the shareholder value that some were predicting.

OLD BOY 23-09-2019 20:27
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36011252)
That will change l suspect given the considerable opportunity of monetising its content especially when other big streamers will be doing it.
If it does change, the ads will be on a lower cost or free subscription. There must always be a subscription option with no ads.

---------- Post added at 20:26 ---------- Previous post was at 20:25 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36011256)
Not if their bottom line comes under pressure.
Their bottom line will come under a lot of pressure if they try to put ads on the subscription offer.

---------- Post added at 20:27 ---------- Previous post was at 20:26 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36011268)
Netflix shares taking a pasting from their high in July. Obviously nobody is expecting it to deliver the shareholder value that some were predicting.
Uncertainty always has an adverse impact on share prices.

denphone 23-09-2019 20:33
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011276)

Their bottom line will come under a lot of pressure if they try to put ads on the subscription offer.
Well that is what is going to happen sooner rather then later and l suspect for all your bleating about adverts you will put up with it in the end if it means cheaper subscriptions.

jfman 23-09-2019 21:10
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011276)
Uncertainty always has an adverse impact on share prices.
Well, yes, as I’ve been saying. The ability of Netflix to maintain its market share, content offering, keep prices low and service a mountain of debt are massive uncertainties in what will be a hugely competitive marketplace.

I was mocked earlier in the year for describing the position as “precarious” but having lost 30% of its value since July I can’t help but feel the market sees the huge risks the way I do.

Legendkiller2k 23-09-2019 21:45
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36011252)
That will change l suspect given the considerable opportunity of monetising its content especially when other big streamers will be doing it.
Maybe, it'll be like hulu a lower price for ads and a higher no ads price.

jfman 23-09-2019 21:47
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011276)
If it does change, the ads will be on a lower cost or free subscription. There must always be a subscription option with no ads.
The question (flaw?) here is assuming that the amount subscribers will pay as a premium for this is greater than the amount advertisers would pay for the highly targeted slots that Netflix (and others) could offer.

Advertisers are ploughing something like $40bn at TV in the USA and £5bn in the UK. It’s a very big pie to knock back a slice of, especially when you can offer targeted advertising against a range of metrics that broadcast television can’t even begin to comprehend.

OLD BOY 24-09-2019 08:21
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36011280)
Well that is what is going to happen sooner rather then later and l suspect for all your bleating about adverts you will put up with it in the end if it means cheaper subscriptions.
Den, they will offer both!

---------- Post added at 08:21 ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36011290)
The question (flaw?) here is assuming that the amount subscribers will pay as a premium for this is greater than the amount advertisers would pay for the highly targeted slots that Netflix (and others) could offer.

Advertisers are ploughing something like $40bn at TV in the USA and £5bn in the UK. It’s a very big pie to knock back a slice of, especially when you can offer targeted advertising against a range of metrics that broadcast television can’t even begin to comprehend.
And if they lose a lot of subscribers by flooding the streamers with commercials? Does that not figure in your calculations?

It'll be a balance in the end, and if they need to charge subscribers more to watch it ad-free, so be it. Note that ITV Hub has a subscription only version (ITV Hub+) and I believe All4 is going the same way. They wouldn't be doing this if your theory was correct.

denphone 24-09-2019 08:29
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011309)
Den, they will offer both!
So why are you moaning as l am sure you will pay extra for the ad free version.

OLD BOY 24-09-2019 08:39
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36011315)
So why are you moaning as l am sure you will pay extra for the ad free version.
Come off it, Den, I'm just making it clear that we will not be plagued with commercials on the main streaming services if we are prepared to pay a subscription instead. That's not moaning, it's clatifying.

What I 'moaned' about was TiVo's plan to add more commercials to recordings on our STBs. That is a retrograde step in my opinion, particularly as they have helped people to avoid ads in the past.

denphone 24-09-2019 08:44
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011320)
Come off it, Den, I'm just making it clear that we will not be plagued with commercials on the main streaming services if we are prepared to pay a subscription instead. That's not moaning, it's clatifying.

What I 'moaned' about was TiVo's plan to add more commercials to recordings on our STBs. That is a retrograde step in my opinion, particularly as they have helped people to avoid ads in the past.
TiVo are no different to anybody else as they have to monetise to bring extra revenue in just like anybody else.

You do state repeatedly that you believe in the free market as this is how the free market works.

OLD BOY 24-09-2019 09:10
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36011322)
TiVo are no different to anybody else as they have to monetise to bring extra revenue in just like anybody else.

You do state repeatedly that you believe in the free market as this is how the free market works.
TiVo has never worked like that before. This is completely new.

Notice that I have always said that I don't watch commercials and many others feel the same way. It is amazing that you don't seem to mind wasting your time watching stuff you didn't put on to see, but maybe you just like window shopping. Each to their own.

denphone 24-09-2019 09:18
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011325)
TiVo has never worked like that before. This is completely new.
As you are always saying things change OB.;)

jfman 24-09-2019 10:09
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011309)
And if they lose a lot of subscribers by flooding the streamers with commercials? Does that not figure in your calculations?

It'll be a balance in the end, and if they need to charge subscribers more to watch it ad-free, so be it. Note that ITV Hub has a subscription only version (ITV Hub+) and I believe All4 is going the same way. They wouldn't be doing this if your theory was correct.
It's a big "if' to say they would lose a lot of subscribers in this way. You are once again applying your personal preferences to everyone else, and you don't quantity the amount people would be willing to pay as a premium for this.

ITV have of course never made bad commercial decisions (ITV Digital).

pip08456 24-09-2019 10:15
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
You lot make me laugh!

OLD BOY 24-09-2019 10:27
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36011336)
You lot make me laugh!
I think that there are some on here who just argue for the sake of it, to be honest.

pip08456 24-09-2019 10:46
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011341)
I think that there are some on here who just argue for the sake of it, to be honest.
I agree 100%.

jfman 24-09-2019 10:57
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011341)
I think that there are some on here who just argue for the sake of it, to be honest.
Irony is not dead!

In no other sector would growth warnings, profit warnings and a 30% drop in share price in such a short time not be a red flag.

1andrew1 24-09-2019 11:03
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011341)
I think that there are some on here who just argue for the sake of it, to be honest.
I disagree. :D

muppetman11 24-09-2019 11:10
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011341)
I think that there are some on here who just argue for the sake of it, to be honest.
:D:D:D:D the irony

Mad Max 24-09-2019 14:56
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36011351)
I agree 100%.

Me too...

jfman 24-09-2019 15:50
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Interesting that one side of the debate want to shut it down, after all these years going round in circles, just at the point Disney+ and others enter the market and threaten Netflix dominance.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/24/netf...panicking.html

denphone 24-09-2019 15:57
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36011506)
Interesting that one side of the debate want to shut it down, after all these years going round in circles, just at the point Disney+ and others enter the market and threaten Netflix dominance.
Inconvenient facts l would imagine.;)

OLD BOY 24-09-2019 16:22
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36011506)
Interesting that one side of the debate want to shut it down, after all these years going round in circles, just at the point Disney+ and others enter the market and threaten Netflix dominance.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/24/netf...panicking.html
It's you and the usual suspects that are trying to shut down debate by finding fault with everything that gets posted on here, even with links provided. We all like a good debate, but just shooting everything down is more like trolling.

Nobody is disagreeing that competition will keep Netflix and Amazon on their toes, nor that commercials will feature in a number of the new (and maybe existing) streamers, but the indication seems to be that most providers will offer a mix of the two. However, those who say Netflix will bomb out are being a little extreme, to say the least.

muppetman11 24-09-2019 16:34
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36011506)
Interesting that one side of the debate want to shut it down, after all these years going round in circles, just at the point Disney+ and others enter the market and threaten Netflix dominance.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/24/netf...panicking.html
https://gizmodo.com/netflix-turns-negative-1838373305

denphone 24-09-2019 16:37
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36011524)
No doubt it will dismissed by those who don't like inconvenient facts MM.;)

jfman 24-09-2019 16:44
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011514)
It's you and the usual suspects that are trying to shut down debate by finding fault with everything that gets posted on here, even with links provided. We all like a good debate, but just shooting everything down is more like trolling.

Nobody is disagreeing that competition will keep Netflix and Amazon on their toes, nor that commercials will feature in a number of the new (and maybe existing) streamers, but the indication seems to be that most providers will offer a mix of the two. However, those who say Netflix will bomb out are being a little extreme, to say the least.
Repeating the same message ad infinitum is trolling.

It’s your own contention that the market will be diverse, it’s your own contention that content providers will start to pull their own content onto their own platforms. Now that both of those appear to be true Netflix is the one saddled with $20bn of debt to service, and limited assets, that other platforms will not be burdened with.

Nobody has said they’ll bomb out - if anything they’ll get swallowed up for their customer base.

Elsewhere in the market DAZN in the USA are now on the Comcast platform with the latter taking 15-30% as a cut because the direct to consumer market isn’t giving adequate reach that incumbent platforms have.

Horizon 24-09-2019 19:32
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36011361)
Irony is not dead!

In no other sector would growth warnings, profit warnings and a 30% drop in share price in such a short time not be a red flag.
What profit warnings?

---------- Post added at 19:32 ---------- Previous post was at 19:31 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36011530)
Repeating the same message ad infinitum is trolling.
Pot, kettle...

jfman 24-09-2019 19:40
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon (Post 36011570)
What profit warnings?

---------- Post added at 19:32 ---------- Previous post was at 19:31 ----------

Pot, kettle...
They revised down their forecasts at their last quarterly results.

I'm not sure why people on this forum seem to take criticism of Netflix personally? :confused: It's only TV.

It's hardly a "pot, kettle..." issue. I'm reacting to new information, giving new analysis and new insight. Others on this forum have been saying the same thing for five years without adjusting for reality - indeed offering often contradictory insight.

pip08456 24-09-2019 19:52
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36011579)
They revised down their forecasts at their last quarterly results.

I'm not sure why people on this forum seem to take criticism of Netflix personally? :confused: It's only TV.

It's hardly a "pot, kettle..." issue. I'm reacting to new information, giving new analysis and new insight. Others on this forum have been saying the same thing for five years without adjusting for reality - indeed offering often contradictory insight.
I have always agreed in most respects with OB on streaming. I have also said Netflix willl go the way of Blockbusters when the big streamers come online in the next 12 months.

Horizon 24-09-2019 20:07
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36011579)
They revised down their forecasts at their last quarterly results. .
Which is not a profit warning. Underlying growth is still up.

If, at this time next year, they have less subscribers than now (and they may for all I know) then by all means talk about profit warnings then.

Hugh 24-09-2019 20:20
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon (Post 36011587)
Which is not a profit warning. Underlying growth is still up.

If, at this time next year, they have less subscribers than now (and they may for all I know) then by all means talk about profit warnings then.
"Turnover is vanity, profit is sanity".

One can have fewer* subscribers, with increased profit, and vice versa, more subscribers with smaller profits.

*apologies for the pedantry... ;)

Horizon 24-09-2019 20:21
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Indeed and no apologies necessary and to finish that, "but cash is reality." :) But he was talking about a profit warning.

jfman 24-09-2019 20:37
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
I was slightly clumsy with my language but the point stands, and is reflected in the share price, that previously growth projections are unlikely to be realised. This is before Disney has even launched here.

Horizon 24-09-2019 20:50
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Ok, fair enough. I think you know full well what a profit warning is and if I read about a profit warning about Netflix on a forum ages after it actually happened, that would mean I'm not doing my job properly.

On growth projections, lets see. You can't possibly know whether they'll be realised or not and yes their last forecast missed a "bit"...

The American market is becoming saturated and then there's all the new competition coming in and this is something that Netflix has been talking about for ages. This is still all about international subscriber numbers and some of the new streamers won't even be launching intentionally for at least a year.

I have no doubt that Disney will be fierce competition for Netflix, but it's a long road for Disney to climb before they get to Netflix's 150m customers.

pip08456 24-09-2019 22:55
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon (Post 36011596)
Ok, fair enough. I think you know full well what a profit warning is and if I read about a profit warning about Netflix on a forum ages after it actually happened, that would mean I'm not doing my job properly.

On growth projections, lets see. You can't possibly know whether they'll be realised or not and yes their last forecast missed a "bit"...

The American market is becoming saturated and then there's all the new competition coming in and this is something that Netflix has been talking about for ages. This is still all about international subscriber numbers and some of the new streamers won't even be launching intentionally for at least a year.

I have no doubt that Disney will be fierce competition for Netflix, but it's a long road for Disney to climb before they get to Netflix's 150m customers.
About 1 Star Wars film.;)

Mad Max 25-09-2019 00:27
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36011579)
They revised down their forecasts at their last quarterly results.

I'm not sure why people on this forum seem to take criticism of Netflix personally? :confused: It's only TV.

It's hardly a "pot, kettle..." issue. I'm reacting to new information, giving new analysis and new insight. Others on this forum have been saying the same thing for five years without adjusting for reality - indeed offering often contradictory insight.
Isn't that what OB has been doing, with his links to streaming over the past few months? You continually knock him for supplying links to people in the industry, who probably have a damn sight more knowledge than you do about what's happening with streaming services, it does look like you just want to cause an argument for the sake of it, without really having any evidence to back up your comments.

jfman 25-09-2019 00:41
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36011634)
Isn't that what OB has been doing, with his links to streaming over the past few months? You continually knock him for supplying links to people in the industry, who probably have a damn sight more knowledge than you do about what's happening with streaming services, it does look like you just want to cause an argument for the sake of it, without really having any evidence to back up your comments.
They aren’t in the industry - they’re digital marketing blogs promoting their own work.

I think links to financial analysis in publications like Forbes would count as suitable analysis - which I do provide. Other general principles about economics - e.g. how markets operating in oligopoly trend to monopoly pricing - are widely accepted in that field and there’s a massive amount of academic literature out there anyone is free to pursue.

Whether these blogs have more knowledge than me is subjective, and I would contend that they do not about wider economic matters. They certainly have gone quiet on Netflix and I’ve not seen any consider the collapse of Eleven Sports.

OLD BOY 25-09-2019 07:36
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36011579)
They revised down their forecasts at their last quarterly results.

I'm not sure why people on this forum seem to take criticism of Netflix personally? :confused: It's only TV.

It's hardly a "pot, kettle..." issue. I'm reacting to new information, giving new analysis and new insight. Others on this forum have been saying the same thing for five years without adjusting for reality - indeed offering often contradictory insight.
I don't see anyone getting personal about Netflix. However, I do find it necessary to comment when some are merrily talking about Netflix going down when they are the most successful streamer of the lot.

I agree that they will face major challenges when they face growing competition, particularly with the launch of Disney +, but to be talking about them going under or being in big trouble is one hell of a stretch.

Their audiences are still growing and will continue to do so as they roll out and extend their services across the globe. As some are pointing out, they still have an additional advertising option they can consider to attract even more subscribers, although the CEO has stated in the past and also fairly recently that Netflix will not do commercials. I don't think he would be so adamant about that if he was concerned about the financial position of the company, do you?

jfman 25-09-2019 08:58
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
30% fall in share price Old Boy. A supporter of unregulated free market capitalism such as yourself must agree that the market doesn't see the projections from last year being fulfilled.

The thing with CEOs is that they come and go, strategies change. Their words now don't constitute medium to long term views of what will happen in an ever changing market.

Success now doesn't equate to long term success - you only need to look at Thomas Cook to see that.

Legendkiller2k 25-09-2019 13:47
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Interesting article here for those who think streaming isn't the future. https://www.cordcuttersnews.com/cabl...ting-the-cord/

Beld Internet is shutting down it’s cable TV service due to the high costs of operation.”It’s true, replacing cable can cut your bills by 100 bucks or more each month. Stream your favorite shows and content while saving money,” their website now says. Formerly Beld Broadband, the Braintree Mass. based company announced their decision Monday September 23.

“As of December 2, 2019, BELD will no longer offer cable television service due to costs beyond our control,” Beld GM Bill Bottiggi said in a statement. “So for any Braintree … resident thinking about cutting the cord, now’s the time and we’ll coach you through it with straightforward, step-by-step guidance.”

It’s true – their website now has a section dedicated on how to cut the cord with FAQs, a list of suggested streaming providers, devices and more.

jfman 25-09-2019 14:26
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
An independent supplier to 34 000 people. Little wonder with little economies of scale they'll have struggled in negotiations with content providers.

$99 a month 1Gbps broadband though, easy money if you've got the cable in the ground.

Also I don't think you'll find anyone denying that streaming will be a significant part of the market in the future. I've three streaming services myself. :)

OLD BOY 26-09-2019 19:27
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Looks like TV Player will be getting a revamp soon.

https://tbivision.com/2019/09/26/con...vice-tvplayer/

Horizon 26-09-2019 19:41
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
TV player lost rights to most channels, so despite the takeover, I don't see this service lasting long.

OLD BOY 27-09-2019 09:15
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
I agree that the present line-up of channels is disappointing, but reports suggest that Alchimie is set on restructuring the channel offering. I guess we will need to wait and see just how compelling this is.

denphone 27-09-2019 09:19
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011924)
I agree that the present line-up of channels is disappointing, but reports suggest that Alchimie is set on restructuring the channel offering. I guess we will need to wait and see just how compelling this is.
Personally l agree with Horizon as l can see them struggling to survive now.

OLD BOY 27-09-2019 14:48
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Britbox announces new distribution deal. No confirmation about it being on STBs yet, though, although I would be surprised if it didn't appear on Sky, Virgin and BT at launch.

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2019...ibution-deals/

denphone 27-09-2019 15:32
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011971)
Britbox announces new distribution deal. No confirmation about it being on STBs yet, though, although I would be surprised if it didn't appear on Sky, Virgin and BT at launch.

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2019...ibution-deals/
Rank stupidity if they don't get deals with Sky, Virgin and BT at launch.

OLD BOY 27-09-2019 17:31
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36011975)
Rank stupidity if they don't get deals with Sky, Virgin and BT at launch.
On that, we are as one! :)

denphone 27-09-2019 17:41
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011990)
On that, we are as one! :)
:beer::beer:

muppetman11 27-09-2019 17:42
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
I doubt many people will subscribe especially those who already have pay TV with access to the UKTV channels.

ozsat 28-09-2019 05:14
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
BT use 'Youview' boxes so should be on thier platform.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36011971)
Britbox announces new distribution deal. No confirmation about it being on STBs yet, though, although I would be surprised if it didn't appear on Sky, Virgin and BT at launch.

https://www.digitaltveurope.com/2019...ibution-deals/

OLD BOY 28-09-2019 11:11
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetman11 (Post 36011998)
I doubt many people will subscribe especially those who already have pay TV with access to the UKTV channels.
Assuming the UKTV channels and ITV3 and 4 continue to exist, maybe. But we have been promised a lot more archive material than we are already getting on Britbox when it is launched, plus originals and content from other sources as well. So I guess we will soon see.

denphone 28-09-2019 11:16
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36012040)
Assuming the UKTV channels and ITV3 and 4 continue to exist, maybe. But we have been promised a lot more archive material than we are already getting on Britbox when it is launched, plus originals and content from other sources as well. So I guess we will soon see.
The question is how much archive content as quite a bit of it the BBC don't own those rights.

muppetman11 28-09-2019 12:20
Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 
The BBC have said the two will coexist , most people have seen the oldies to death and many have DVD Boxsets of them. Britbox is a great idea in other countries for those who don't get to see all the BBC content but I can't see much interest here.


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