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-   -   U.S President: Donald Trump (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33704412)

TheDaddy 25-03-2017 21:27
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35891717)
Kinda was , it was his bill of choice to replace Obamacare ,makes him responsible .Given the threat to 24 million people if i was an American i would hope he had done every thing possible to ensure it was going to be better than what it was meant to replace
And at least read it...

Mick 25-03-2017 21:33
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35891716)
This is an example of argument, not discussion:

"Care to show..." is a leading and inflammatory statement
Good grief you think that is inflammatory? :erm:

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
Adding a put-down to the poster "or is this more of your negative agenda working overtime?" is what people do in arguments, not discussions. It is irrelevant to the debate.
What do you expect when you make silly comments that he 'Should have read the bill instead of spending time at his golf course' and then another that his 'tax reforms will only benefit billionaires', when he has stated his intentions for lowering tax is for all. I was making an assertion that you were just being negative and or having a negative agenda. I could say this is not debating for debating sake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
I've provided what I know, as has Maggie. Trump did seem to be unaware that the bill contradicted his election promises until his opponents pointed this out to him.
No you both haven't, you have provided opinions, opinions is not evidence, as I said in my last post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
What do you think is more likely?
That Obamacare is to continue on and get worse. Premiums will rise again this year and lots of Americans will be even more out of pocket, cannot really call it the Affordable Care Act, when it's not affordable, when premiums shoot up by $900 - $1,500 extra on top of what Americans are already paying per month for an average size family!

1andrew1 25-03-2017 21:46
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35891722)
No you both haven't, you have provided opinions, opinions is not evidence, as I said in my last post.
It's not an opinion that Trump promised to protect entitlements, including Medicaid. And it's also not an opinion that Trumpcare/Ryancare would not have kept these promises.

Hugh 25-03-2017 23:42
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35891722)
Good grief you think that is inflammatory? :erm:



What do you expect when you make silly comments that he 'Should have read the bill instead of spending time at his golf course' and then another that his 'tax reforms will only benefit billionaires', when he has stated his intentions for lowering tax is for all. I was making an assertion that you were just being negative and or having a negative agenda. I could say this is not debating for debating sake.



No you both haven't, you have provided opinions, opinions is not evidence, as I said in my last post.



That Obamacare is to continue on and get worse. Premiums will rise again this year and lots of Americans will be even more out of pocket, cannot really call it the Affordable Care Act, when it's not affordable, when premiums shoot up by $900 - $1,500 extra on top of what Americans are already paying per month for an average size family!
And if they are on lower incomes, they get refunds on those premiums.

Obamacare is so awful, 20 million more people have health cover than before it's creation...

And the AHCA was so good that 24 million people were forecast to lose cover under it.

1andrew1 26-03-2017 00:54
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35891733)
And if they are on lower incomes, they get refunds on those premiums.

Obamacare is so awful, 20 million more people have health cover than before it's creation...

And the AHCA was so good that 24 million people were forecast to lose cover under it.
Spot on.
Some Trump fans have taken to comparing the NHS to Obamacare and finding the NHS better.
But the US was only given the choice between Obamacare and Trumpcare. Trumpcare was set to leave 24m people uninsured. That can't be an improvement, it just looks like an easy slash-and-burn-solution. And that's exactly what it was.

passingbat 26-03-2017 09:03
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 35891735)
Spot on.
Some Trump fans have taken to comparing the NHS to Obamacare and finding the NHS better
.
I really don't know what your point is. The NHS funding model is better than any American health care system.


The Americans have a different philosophy re health care provision; as much free market privatisation as possible from the Republicans, and some government intervention from the Democrats.


We, in the UK believe in free at the point of delivery, funded by taxation. No matter what your financial status, you will get healthcare in the UK.


The American health Insurance model is an anathema to people in the UK, But it is their country and they have a right to choose how healthcare is funded.


I believe Trump does want to make sure everyone is covered and that bill wouldn't have done it. The encouraging thing is that Trump has invited Democrat input, to try to get a more consensus policy. Maybe Trump should have stood as an independent? :)

Hugh 26-03-2017 09:30
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Pity he didn't ask the first time around - I thought he was a deal-maker?

martyh 26-03-2017 09:44
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35891740)

I believe Trump does want to make sure everyone is covered and that bill wouldn't have done it. The encouraging thing is that Trump has invited Democrat input, to try to get a more consensus policy. Maybe Trump should have stood as an independent? :)
Or maybe Trump has been told in no uncertain terms that is the only way he will pass a health care bill .Something as important as healthcare should have involved both sides from the get go and Trump being a 'different type' of politician,one that doesn't bow to convention should have done that ,instead he's shown he's worse than the politicians he promised to better .

Damien 26-03-2017 09:49
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Trump left most of the detail to the Republicans in Congress. He doesn't appear to have been actively involved or that interested, in interviews he hasn't shown an in-depth knowledge of the bill. His comments have largely been rather superficial ('it's a great bill, you're gonna be so happy with this deal' etc).

Maybe if he said what he actually wanted. The broad promise of a bill being better than Obamacare, no one losing coverage and cheaper isn't a policy. If it were that easy it would have been done already. This bill would have hit his voters the hardest and lost a lot of people their healthcare.

Mr Banana 26-03-2017 10:31
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
the gift that keep on giving

https://twitter.com/ThePoke/status/845559353117696000

1andrew1 26-03-2017 10:40
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35891742)
Pity he didn't ask the first time around - I thought he was a deal-maker?
Trump only started to think about asking the Democrats when he had pulled the bill. I can't really see what's in it for them. They've got a proven, workable system in place and unless that changes then I can't see them needing to come to the table. Trump may have convinced some of his more diehard followers it is not working but not the public at large; only 17% agreed with his bill.
I think Trump's issue is that he is trying to run the Presidency like a businessman. This doesn't work and we've seen him stumble at Muslim Ban #1, Muslim Ban #2 and Trumpcare/Ryancare. Rather than taking the time to sort each thing out properly, he just moves on to the next thing. That might, though, be his approach given his term of four years.

---------- Post added at 10:40 ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35891747)
Lol! I imagine a few Trumpites are spluttering on their French toasts and Golden Grahams after seeing that! :D

passingbat 26-03-2017 12:16
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35891742)
Pity he didn't ask the first time around - I thought he was a deal-maker?
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35891745)
Or maybe Trump has been told in no uncertain terms that is the only way he will pass a health care bill .Something as important as healthcare should have involved both sides from the get go and Trump being a 'different type' of politician,one that doesn't bow to convention should have done that ,instead he's shown he's worse than the politicians he promised to better .

Have any of you guy's not made mistakes in new job; how great it must be to be to be that perfect.


Trump will learn. The end of the world hasn't happened because this bill didn't pass. In fact it was a good thing, as a better bill will hopefully materialise. But any bill based on private insurance health care, from any side of the house will never meet the coverage we expect in the UK.

nomadking 26-03-2017 12:27
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Not sure what people are going on about, when Obamacare went through so smoothly:rolleyes:, it had to be introduced by a back door method and involve the Supreme Court.

Mick 26-03-2017 12:29
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Banana (Post 35891747)
But not really, he has not lied. He immediately attempted to get Obamacare repealed but that was down to congress. If he could change legislation as big as this is, on his own accord he would have done it.

Within 64 days the Republicans have tried to push this through and too many concessions were made to attempt to please the pathetic democrats, to get them on side, bit difficult when they are still crying over losing the election, pity, maybe they should have backed Sanders.

Granted Republicans own both chambers but too many Republicans backed off in the end and Trump did right thing to pull the vote.

This is just like here recently, where the chancellor announced increases to national insurance for the self employed. Tory rebellion was growing, not to mention they broke a promise in their 2015 Tory manifesto. So they did a U-Turn. It happens in politics.

martyh 26-03-2017 13:50
Re: U.S President: Donald Trump
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat (Post 35891757)
Have any of you guy's not made mistakes in new job; how great it must be to be to be that perfect.


Trump will learn. The end of the world hasn't happened because this bill didn't pass. In fact it was a good thing, as a better bill will hopefully materialise. But any bill based on private insurance health care, from any side of the house will never meet the coverage we expect in the UK.
That's a bit like excusing a brain surgeon because it's his first day when the patient wakes a vegetable .Trump had all the time and all the expertise at his disposal he needed to make it work


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick (Post 35891759)
too many concessions were made to attempt to please the pathetic democrats, to get them on side,
Rubbish, that's a pathetic excuse .The Republicans control both houses they did not need one single vote from the Democrats to pass this .The reason it failed was because even a lot of Republicans saw what an awful piece of legislation it was .If Trump wasn't so big headed and gung ho he would have taken his time and formulated a piece of legislation that would actually work and his own party would have voted for


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