Re: Brexit
 

It's not long ago that Theresa May was telling us she wouldn't hold an election, was it? Look what happened.
And it was even more recently that she was promising not to delay the vote, wasn't she? Look what happened.
The Government's got form here and you don't need to have Hawkeye to spot it! ;)

Re: Brexit
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46856149

“No Brexit more likely than No Deal” - Theresa May (to be said tomorrow).

Re: Brexit
 

the government had no plans and did not want to publish the brexit assessment documents parliament made them

Re: Brexit
 

Exactly. Parliament is taking control and the country decided to elect a Parliament of majority Remain MPs in 2017.

Re: Brexit
 

https://www.bloomberg.com/

So, there is concern that lawmakers would gain control over the laws?

Re: Brexit
 

No they did not at all.

Why do you keep making your own stuff up as you go along?!?

That is totally inaccurate.

The facts actually are: They elected for parties which stood on manifestos for leave!!!

80% of the electorate voted for leave parties in 2017 - to say otherwise is a utter lie and distortion of the truth.

---------- Post added at 00:51 ---------- Previous post was at 00:44 ----------

You're still showing you don't quite know how the legislative powers work Dave there is a difference to that and actually invoking primary legislation, but do keep up.... ;)

---------- Post added at 00:54 ---------- Previous post was at 00:51 ----------

I think it's a case of - It's 11th hour scare stories from No. 10 - to whip up support, last bid attempt and all that, for her terrible deal.

Re: Brexit
 

As obvious as night that turns to day.

Re: Brexit
 

Is see that the Remainers are having a field day. It's like vultures circling a circling a soon to be carcass.

If Parliament dares to suspend or cancel Brexit then we really do have a crisis that will spill onto the streets.

This disgraceful set of manoeuvers comes just as we could wobble the EU into concessions as they see their £39m disappearing down the toilet and they see their beloved perfidious Ireland take a serious economic hit.

But no, Corbyn is hell bent on power with no Brexit plan and the Tories could lose an election based on their performance.

Jeez - Remainers; are these intended or unintended consequences of your mission to overturn the Brexit Referendum? Either way, shame on you.

Re: Brexit
 

If those are the consequences then so be it. A price worth paying.

Re: Brexit
 

Hmmm more than a whiff of project fear about some parts of this post......:erm:

Re: Brexit
 

BBC News - Theresa May says no Brexit more likely than no deal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46856149

Re: Brexit
 

No it’s not. You are so naive if you think Brexiteers will just accept Brexit being stopped. British political spectrum will be turned upside down, division will be as strong as ever, the desire to leave a cancerous union will still be there.

Brexiteers are not going to go quietly in to the night and accept the same old status quo of being in a disgusting, corrupted EU.

We must leave the EU Dictatorship.

Democracy is being abused for your own selfish reasons because you think we cannot survive outside a corrupted entity, you are wrong.

Re: Brexit
 

You don't know this though Mick, it's pure conjecture, it's no more fact than i know that remaining would mean the country would be in the land of milk and honey.

Regardless of leaving/remaining we will still be under the control of a corrupted entity that being our current political system.

Re: Brexit
 

MPs that in the majority stood on a manifesto to leave the EU

---------- Post added at 10:20 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------

Corbyn and Labour have been totally lamentable in this whole period.

Like or dislike May, like or dislike her deal, she has at least come back with a position and a deal.

And as split as the Tories are, at least you know what they want as individuals also.

I have no idea what Labours position is. Nor do they. If Corbyn thinks this is his ticket into power, I think he will be disappointed.

Re: Brexit
 

The official labour position is to still pursue Brexit, but to attempt to renegotiate a deal with Brussels (not sure how that's going to play out considering the EU's comments)

Corbyns attempt at no confidence vote will be symbolic only as DUP etc will vote against. I agree that if Corbyn thinks he will be able to use this to gain power then it's not going to happen.

Re: Brexit
 

Boris says he know more about car manufacturing than the CEO of Jaguar Land Rover.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...n-jaguar-boss/

Re: Brexit
 

Boris should be nowhere near UK politics, the mans a simpering cretin.

---------- Post added at 10:37 ---------- Previous post was at 10:36 ----------

Baron Von Greenback currently on this morning.......

Re: Brexit
 

The company's failing and laying off thousands of workers ,the CEO aint looking that clever.

Re: Brexit
 

If Boris was in charge the company would be bankrupt.

---------- Post added at 10:42 ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 ----------

Nigel Farage 'I'm talking against my own book now, a 2nd referendum would be outrageous, but i suspect thats what will happen'

Re: Brexit
 

There are many factors involved when a company is not doing well and laying off some of their workers..

---------- Post added at 10:46 ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 ----------

l don't know who is worse him or Corbyn as PM.:rolleyes::td:

Re: Brexit
 

Farage didn't actually speak to badly on this morning, apart from one of his last sentences 'Teresa May should just go for a no deal brexit, and the country would rally round her' (not verbatim)

Uh huh Nige, course they will.....

---------- Post added at 10:57 ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 ----------

It's like comparing syphillis to gonorrhea...

Re: Brexit
 

The reported main impacts on Jaguar Land Rover are, large drop in sales in China and of diesel vehicles. Nothing to do with Brexit, which hasn't happened.

Re: Brexit
 

Companies don't plan after the fact, whilst the predominant factors are the Chinese market and Diesel sales. It would be naive to suggest that Brexit plays no part in this.

---------- Post added at 11:29 ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 ----------

BREAKING: May receives letters of reassurance from EU, however, no changes to agreement

SOURCE: The Independent via Apple News

Re: Brexit
 

Welcome to the Brexit box although each one will cost you £300.:rolleyes:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-46814527

Re: Brexit
 

It'll be £600 if you leave it till the last minute.

Re: Brexit
 

probably 2 for £500 at the supermarkets :D

Re: Brexit
 

An excerpt from TM's speech in Stoke today, where she says that when the people of Wales voted by a margin of 0.3%, on a turnout of just over 50%, to endorse the creation of the Welsh Assembly, that result was accepted by both sides and the popular legitimacy of that institution has never been seriously questioned.

Except for the fact that she* voted twice against the Government of Wales Bill's 2nd Reading (after the Welsh Referendum vote), and then the Tory Manifesto in 2005 included the proposal for a 2nd Referendum on the Welsh Assembly.

*and Liam Fox, John Redwood, Bill Cash, Bernard Jenkin, David Davis, Ian Duncan Smith

Re: Brexit
 

You need to move on and stop dwelling on the past in my opinion.

Re: Brexit
 

Et Tu Brutus.

Re: Brexit
 

So pointing out falsehoods being said today (by using evidence from previous similar occurrences) is "living in the past"?

One of your posts previously in this thread...

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/r...exit-mdvw9366d

Re: Brexit
 

Opponents of a no-deal Brexit will unveil a plan today to force Theresa May to delay or revoke Article 50 if parliament cannot unite on a way to leave the European Union.

In move to upend the “default” setting of Brexit a cross-party group of MPs will publish a draft bill this afternoon that, if passed, would reverse Britain’s automatic departure from Europe.

The bill would give the prime minister and parliament six weeks to reach a consensus on a way ahead. If no plan could be agreed by the Commons the bill would instruct the prime minister to request an extension to the Article 50 process.



Some serious 'will of the people' stuff right there . . . deserves a straight red from the ref ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Anyones guess at what Plan B might be?

Re: Brexit
 

Article 50 extension, 2nd referendum is my guess

Re: Brexit
 

Tory whip Gareth Johnson resigns from government.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-politics-live

Re: Brexit
 

Parliament has no authority, to tell May to extend A50, no matter how many times it holds a vote.

The Government of the day is the Executive and only it can revoke A50, it cannot be dictated to, to do anything. Motions and Amendments are not legally binding, the government can ignore them.

As for Bill's - Queen's consent would be required on a Bill that interferes with Royal Prerogative powers, because Parliament is trying to set a precedent by trying to steal executive powers it does not have and without her majesty's consent, can stop dead any Bill and debate put forward, it's existence provides the monarch and her government with a tool for blocking debate on certain subjects if bills are tabled by backbench rebels or the opposition.

Re: Brexit
 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...e-50-extension

Theresa May refuses to rule out Article 50 extension. As Mick correctly points out, any extension is an executive function so entirely deliverable if she takes this approach.

Re: Brexit
 

Civil war?

Re: Brexit
 

Unusual version of democracy- if someone doesn’t get their way, they’ll resort to violence?

Re: Brexit
 

Within the conservative party obviously.

Re: Brexit
 

Do you mean like there has been since the mid-70's, with peaks in the 90s?

Not much change there, then...

Re: Brexit
 

Democracy? If you want that then respect the democratic vote of the referendum.

Re: Brexit
 

NO

Re: Brexit
 

It could all have been avoided if those perfidious Brexiteers hadn’t used it as an audition for Conservative Party leader and bottomed out our preferred option for leaving before the referendum.

Re: Brexit
 

Democracy is a one time thing now, is it? Hmmmm, interesting

Re: Brexit
 

Around 25% of their sales were to China and then that figure halved. The China sales figures also dropped for other manufacturers.


90% of their vehicles run on diesel, so the diesel debacle will have a disproportionate effect.


So production is going to be the least affected.


The removal of the "backstop" is still in the one-sided gift of the EU. "Temporary" can still mean "Indefinite", EG the Barnett formula was only supposed to be temporary, but more than 40 years on it is still in place with NO legal basis. Probably more examples out there.

---------- Post added at 18:05 ---------- Previous post was at 17:59 ----------

It there's only one vote on an issue, then yes. Any trampling on the democratic vote is being done NOW and is extremely scary and sinister in it's manifestations.

---------- Post added at 18:08 ---------- Previous post was at 18:05 ----------

The underlying problem is the overwhelming weak leadership from TM, which meant the EU can get away with whatever it wants.

Re: Brexit
 

Nah, no chance. All you will get are a few "oldflakes" uploading angry videos to YouTube saying that they were "betrayed".

Now back to the real world ..

Re: Brexit
 

And that seems to justify trampling over democracy? IE because they can get away with it?

Re: Brexit
 

I'm watching a program about a bloke who did that in the 1940's;)

Re: Brexit
 

Would it be undemocratic if people voted by a majority for a no deal Brexit?

What we are being offered by this government does not seem to be what the majority voted for, how democratic is that?

No one seems to care about the lies told in order to sway the electorate. Is that democracy or undue outside influence, who knows? It does feel like some are just putting their fingers in their ears, singing "la la la, I can't hear you" because they don't want to hear any dissent.

Re: Brexit
 

When the referendum was held there was no mention of Hokey Kokey "deals" just a simple stay or leave. It's May muddying the waters that's created so much grief. If planning was underway with a transition over the last 2 1/2 years for a clean break we'd not be in the state we're now in.

Re: Brexit
 

Parliament consists of a majority of Remain MPs and all were elected. It's entirely correct.
That's also correct, except of course for the smaller parties.
No one is saying otherwise least of all you or me.

My key point is that we have a Parliament of Remain MPs. The electorate can reasonably expect them to pass a reasonable Brexit deal. It absolutely cannot and does not want them to pass a no-deal Brexit.

Re: Brexit
 

We just disagree on the definition of Democracy. You will have to get used to this I am afraid ...

Re: Brexit
 

I hope we don't have a general election.

I will NEVER vote for labour while JC is involved with them.

He's seems only interested in blocking brexit so he can try and get an election.

Plus my Tory MP is a remainer so again going against what my town voted which was to leave.

Re: Brexit
 

Is he the chap who, at best, misled and, at worst, brainwashed the electorate to believe the people responsible for his nation's woes were in fact innocent of these accusations.

He is also the chap who controlled the media that over a period of years, fed constant lies and propaganda to the public to make them think what was best for them was, it turned out, the worse of all decisions.

:)

Re: Brexit
 

So which democratic vote did he ignore? It was the German Parliament that gave him any powers.

Re: Brexit
 

How many definitions are there?

Re: Brexit
 

Great article here on the difficulties that countries have in concluding trade deals. Google "Brexiters’ delusions on trade die hard"
These include the US insistence on opening up the NHS, its current protectionist President and requirements to reduce food standards; China's security issues; India's requirement to ease visa restrictions to work or study in the UK and Australia's tough stance and ability to spot weakness.
https://www.ft.com/content/d543bdd4-...e-f4351a53f1c3

---------- Post added at 19:29 ---------- Previous post was at 19:27 ----------

There's clearly more than one as your exchange with jfman shows. How much does it matter to you?

Re: Brexit
 

With a lot of intimidation and arresting of members of that parliament. Hitler wasn’t keen on democracy...

Re: Brexit
 

The Night of the Long Knives.

Re: Brexit
 

you do know he a very big brexiteer pretending to be a remainer right

Re: Brexit
 

Is he even pretending???;)

Re: Brexit
 

The trouble with JC is he just cannot back May because she is a tory.

Re: Brexit
 

Do you mean the Enabling Act, which was enacted by the Reichstag where non-Nazi members were surrounded and threatened by members of Sturmabteilung and the SS, and the Communists and some Social Democrats were not allowed to be present or to vote?

Democratic vote?

Re: Brexit
 

Corbyn doesn't want to back Brexit and alienate Remainers or get the blame if it goes wrong. He doesn't want to overturn Brexit and deal with the backlash of Leavers, and ideologically he supports it anyway. He wants it to all go wrong and the Tories get the blame so he wins an election.

Re: Brexit
 

JC and TM should job swap until April.

Re: Brexit
 

Ha ha. They both probably secretly wish they could! Often, what people don't say is more informative than what they do say.
How many times has Theresa May said her deal is better than no deal? Quite a few.
But, how many times has May said her deal is better than no Brexit? Never.
No further questions milord.

Re: Brexit
 

We would end up a 3rd world country within a matter of weeks no thanks

Re: Brexit
 

But JC may be unable to implement Brexit either. ;)

---------- Post added at 22:37 ---------- Previous post was at 22:35 ----------

House of Lords have rejected Theresa May’s deal by 321 votes to 152.

Re: Brexit
 

BREAKING: Theresa May's Brexit agreement has suffered its first official parliamentary defeat as peers registered their opposition to it by 321 votes to 152 with a majority of 169

Re: Brexit
 

second will be tomorrow for sure then no one has any idea what happens next

Re: Brexit
 

Exciting times, we are living through a key part of British history.

Wish I was watching from a position of retirement, no mortgage and an index-linked pension though! Hey, ho back to the grind in a few hours...

Re: Brexit
 

I’m bizarrely coming round to Theresa May’s deal. It’s not really Brexit, keeps us economically tied to the EU and for the xenophobes it ends freedom of movement.

While nobody thinks it’s great it gives everyone something. Probably just enough to end Brexit debates going forward and put a line under it. Remaining, extensions or leaving with no deal will keep the issue rumbling on for years.

Being “stuck in the backstop” keeps us in the customs union without paying into the EU which bizarrely is the best of both worlds if we accept that favourable the trade deals are unlikely.

Re: Brexit
 

I can see the point you make but there are two problems with your logic:

1. this validates the decades of right wing media anti-EU propaganda and xenophobia that underwrote the 2016 result.
2. this deal is forcing a future on a generation that overwhelmingly does not want it. Moreover, now the actual deal is known, they are denied a voice in approving (or denying) it.

Re: Brexit
 

I’m not disagreeing with you, it does have it’s flaws. All of your concerns would equally apply to “no deal”.

On the tightrope it doesn’t really please anyone entirely.

Re: Brexit
 

Just like I was, and millions of others back in the 70s. That’s life. You cannot keep having the same Referendum, just because people are not old enough to vote during it.

You go on about the younger generation not wanting this, many young people I know want to leave the EU.

What propaganda are you talking about?

I saw no propaganda to realise how damaging the EU has been to the UK. I hate the EU and all it stands for and make my own judgements on my own volition.

And just how many people were duped to vote Remain during the lies the Remain camp told and dire tactics?

The argument for another referendum is that people now know more, this is a fallacy.

Several key arguments about the need to Remain are that we would lose all EU Grants. This is actually our money they are giving back but telling us what to spend it on, so we are not losing a thing by leaving. We are net contributors. It is a con job membership fee for measly benefits, mainly being able to trade but that is achievable outside the EU. Japan manages it, Australia does.

It is not Xenophobic or racist to be concerned with the amount of migration that has occurred over the last few decades in Europe.

Re: Brexit
 

The small number of young people you may know do not form a representative sample I am afraid.

Here's a few:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2019/01/10.jpg

Some more:

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2019/01/11.jpg

Not a mistaken belief, just a clear and self-evident proposition. The facts we have now have superseded the claims made in 2016.

You are quite correct. However, when the right wing media are exaggerating the impact of migration plus blaming migrants for problems not of their making then this is xenophobic.

Our Governments (past & current) have had the means to control & limit EU migration for years and have ignored these powers.

They also have chosen not to intervene in the (free) market to protect the areas of the country that were disproportionately impacted by the change in our manufacturing base.

Re: Brexit
 

What Representative sample are you working with to decide the younger generation don’t want to leave, how do you know?



Great, now what about the lies and tactics, falsehoods described by the Remain establishment, that includes campaigns and the pro-EU media???

And what makes you think a second referendum won’t be the same misinformation, scare stories and general lies by both sides?

Another referendum would be just as divisive and just prolong business uncertainty. The country has already decided, I know it’s not the result you desired or recognise but you would have miraculously recognised a Remain result, despite all the lies and falsehoods told by their camp.

Re: Brexit
 

BREAKING: JUST IN: German Foreign Minister Maas says if May's Brexit deal is rejected by parliament today there could be new talks with the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

That Mr Gove has been ear worming you.

TBH, I'm not against May's deal. It's a compromise deal, as all deals are.

It's a start and moves us on.

We are still a sovereign nation, if something happens further along by the EU that is abhorrent to us, we can still cut ties if we need to.

I think the sticking point for many is the money, with no guarantee of what the future relationship will be.

You have to use the word you don't like, and take a leap of faith.

Re: Brexit
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8728521.html

Re: Brexit
 

The world turns, things are ever changing, what was good to eat last week can now apparently kill you this week, etc etc.

I voted no back in the 70's and had to follow everyone else into the land of milk and honey (and butter mountains, wine lakes) because that's how things are done.

The 'EU' I voted against back then is totally different to the 'EU' I voted against this time, and I wonder if people knew back then what they know now, would they have voted differently?

The world turns, things change, and the time of change is here again :Yes:

Re: Brexit
 

I voted against originally. However I voted to stay this time mainly because my children wanted to stay.

Re: Brexit
 

Does anybody think Theresa May will resign if she loses the vote this evening?

Re: Brexit
 

If you offer good odds you might have some takers on that.;)

Re: Brexit
 

Nah

Re: Brexit
 

no she wont

Re: Brexit
 

No she's not a quitter.

Re: Brexit
 

Only way she' ll go if her cabinet colleagues stick the knife in ( wouldn't turn her back on Oily snake Gove if I was her).

I predict a 6 month delay, more negotiations with the EU, which won't really be negotiations as they won't change the agreement. Another vote which she'll lose again. Then another referendum which will overwhelming choose remain. She'll still try and stay though as she is a Remainer, and the alternatives are too terrible and talentless to contemplate.

Meanwhile every other bit of Govt. goes on hold, and the economy tanks, and the country becomes more divided than ever. All an utter unneeded, self inflicted waste of time. Well done Brexiteers !

Re: Brexit
 

Great to get such agreement across the forum! Maybe a first for this thread. :)

Re: Brexit
 

Indeed, she'll go on and on and on....

Now where have I heard that before? :erm:

They'll have to drag her from office with fingernails scratching across the floor.

Re: Brexit
 

European Union to rob us of Big Macs

https://www.theguardian.com/business...ttle-supermacs

Re: Brexit
 

Pathetic ruling, not that I am a regular McDonalds diner, have not been for a long time - but typical of the EU to rule against something so bloody trivial.

Big Mac / Super Mac - don't see how they clash.

The people of the UK will gladly ignore such a stupid mundane ruling and just carry on calling it a Big Mac, just adds to many many reasons to leave the cancerous and corrupted EU.

Re: Brexit
 

Only because McDonalds tried to rob europe of the Supermac. Serves them right.

Re: Brexit
 

voting started on Mays deal

lost by 230 majority

Re: Brexit
 

A brutal defeat in any language for her.

Re: Brexit
 

Corbyn calls no confidence vote

Re: Brexit
 

Utterly predictable.

Re: Brexit
 

yes and it gonna fail too DUP all ready said they vote with government on that