Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

hi mant1s,nice to see you come out of the shadows, what was your question(s) to david, and what was Cameron's reply?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What if the problem turns out to be the profiler leaking your data, I believe Phorm has gifted that to the ISP.

So the ISP would be responsible not Phorm?

Don't forget Steve Gibson should be commenting on Phorm & similar technologies tomorrow.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Still doing the same thing. Closed browser and started a new window. Odd. It loads the top left eyes image, the navigation tabs, the right hand navi (donations button, calendar etc) but nothing in the big white space in the centre (under the "Where will you be on July 16th" banner)

It just hangs with "Waiting for https://nodpi..." in the status bar and the green progress bar hardly moving at all.

This page loads no problem (all the text - absolutely fine - no delay): https://nodpi.org/2008/06/17/
This page does not load the body text at all, just hangs: https://nodpi.org/2008/06/18/

Anyone on BT Broadband not having this issue? Using IE 7.0 browser - Vista.

:(

Alex: Great article on ISPreview :)

All: I got my letter back from the Home Office this week (my MP sent it on to Stephen Timms)

It looks very similar to the one already received by another member here - from the same Baroness Shriti Vadera, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business & Competitiveness. Not very reassuring at all and it repeats the Phorm spin...

"Many web pages, including for example search engine results pages, include advertising which may or may not be of interest to the customer. Phorm enables the ISP to replace these advertisements with others that are relevant to the customer's recent web browsing. This potentially means less irrelevant advertisements for the user and better targeting of their advertisements for the advertisers, for which opportunity they would pay their ISP."

(Clearly this is a standard reply as it does not answer the questions I posed in any detail at all)

"[We] can assure you that the Government is committed to ensuring that people's privacy is fully protected."

(By doing sod all when a national telecomms company interecpts their communication without their permission and without a warrant from any courts or legally permitted agency?)

"The ICO has published its view on Phorm on its website and I enclose a copy here."

(version 1.3 18/4/08)

She goes on to say that the HO has advised ISPs on how the use of Phorm might be affected by the RIPA. She says:

"RIPA does not in itself mean that all applications of Phorm necessarily contravene the act."

Now I think I agree on that. Not ALL applications of Phorm would necessarily contravene the act. No - quite right...

Phorm could write some nice little spyware type program which users would have to install. That would not break RIPA would it...

Go back where many think you came from K*nt, back to your "roots" LOL. Then we can all get back to our day jobs and I can finish decorating my house instead of this. Until you do, my house can wait!

NO to interception; interception using Phorm IS illegal under RIPA.

Hank

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ok something else to look into here - if Phorm is implemented, and you are a victim of a phishing site; Then I am sure that they MUST take FULL responsibility.

Ok guys - Anyone with better legal knowledge regarding this, in regards of which legislations would cover. I would not image the Fraud Act, unless it can be established that Phorm would be part of the Fraud. However, your views on liability in regards of cases where Phorm could be conceivably negligent under the law; and how would this be dealt with under the Act, or relating Acts.

I think this is another part of the preparation we need in place, to provide as much support to the public.

I will look up what I can over the next few days, but laws regarding fraud are not my strong point.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hank , go grab a Slax LiveCD, Burn and boot that CD on your PC to see if its the OS or a problem with your BT connection.

at least that should give you some clues without need to re-install anything on the HD.

http://www.slax.org/

works for most generic PC hardware using Ethernet iv used, although iv not tryed it on BT kit or NoDPI Https

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

All seem to be back on Gyron but as stated on BT Forum, probably left Web site mirrors at netcraft.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I believe in the covert surveillance world it's called tradecraft. :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hank just used IE7 and works but i am using XP pro

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'm still here, been here since post no 1..
Its been a fantastic read and an education, I am spreading the word and have educated many people on this subject.

Thanks to all of you, keep up the good work.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Apols for the cross posting, but this is important, I think...

Please can someone else confirm this analysis.

I've been accessing www.webwise.com from the PSInet server 38.105.138.154 (using a modified hosts file) and comparing the results with the Gyron server 89.145.112.32 (using standard DNS).

The results are really interesting.

I think someone is taking the PIIs (personally identifiable information)..

Here's why.

If I connect direct to the Gyron server (89.145.112.32), and capture the traffic I see this (note the date and last modified fields);

GET htt p://www.webwise.com/style.css HTTP/1.1
<snip irrelevant headers>

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 06:25:21 GMT << EXACT SAME DATE AS BELOW
Server: Apache/2.2.3 (Red Hat)
Last-Modified: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 06:25:21 GMT << EXACT SAME DATE AS ABOVE
<snip irrelevant headers>

Now if I request the same document from the PSInet server (38.105.138.154) I get this;

GET htt p://www.webwise.com/style.css HTTP/1.1
<snip irrelevant headers>

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:03:02 GMT << CURRENT DATE, DIFFERENT TO DATE BELOW
Server: Apache/2.2.3 (Red Hat)
Last-Modified: Sun, 27 Apr 2008 21:33:39 GMT << HISTORIC DATE, DIFFERENT TO DATE ABOVE
<snip irrelevant headers>

The date header is used to indicate the server's current system time. The last-modified header should indicate when the file was last changed (to facilitate browser caching etc).

What I suspect is going on here is this. First the date header indicates the server at Gyron is set to a date in November 2007. If so, that's just an amateurish schoolboy type error.

But second, I believe the machine at Gyron may be acting at as proxy for the server in PSInet... Why? Because the last modified date exactly matches the server date when the file is requested from Gyron. In other words, I suspect it is a proxy server that knows nothing about the creation date of the original file. It is simply reporting the server local date/time for current date AND last modified date.

This is most important, because if my analysis is correct, it would obviously be deceptive to claim that data was being handled in the UK (because it was being proxied to the USA).

So please, can anyone confirm the analysis?

Or BT if you're reading this, please explain?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks! No, I sing in a barbershop quartet and love close vocal harmony -- hence the name funchords.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Here's a letter I'm drafting to Ian Livingston. Any suggestions for improvement would be welcome.

So ... Comments?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If this is true then Kent is still upto something and trying to make it look legal he must think that people in England are thick wonder where he got that from... Oh yes BT since they think it is impossible to explain about phorm as it is too technical for customers and shareholders....

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Err, more PIIs taking.

I repeated the test above for webwise.bt.com.

From Gyron servers (no modification to hosts file);

GET http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/css/global.css HTTP/1.1
<snip irrelevant headers>

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:16:54 GMT << SAME DATE TIME AS BELOW
Server: Apache/2.2.3 (Red Hat)
Last-Modified: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 12:16:54 GMT << SAME DATE TIME AS ABOVE
<snip irrelevant headers>

Using PSInet address (38.105.138.154)

GET http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/css/global.css HTTP/1.1
<snip irrelevant headers>

HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:03:43 GMT << CURRENT DATE
Server: Apache/2.2.3 (Red Hat)
Last-Modified: Fri, 23 May 2008 14:09:47 GMT << HISTORIC DATE
<snip irrelevant headers>

Looks a lot like the Gyron server is a proxy to me.

Please anyone able to confirm my analysis and opinion?

If I'm right this is worse than very bad. Its more bad than a bad thing on a bad day in a bad year.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

deleted :)