Re: Brexit
 

exactly it not legal text so cant see it making much difference at all

Re: Brexit
 

An outcome that hurts the U.K. least in the short to medium term.

Re: Brexit
 

I don't understand this comment.

You regularly say that the 17.4 million knew what they voted for but none of them were told "vote Leave and we will hurt the U.K. at least in the short term and also probably the medium term as well"?

So this scenario is definitely off the agenda then. We can only leave with No Deal if it fulfils the pledges of the Leave campaign. That is, after all, what you voted for, right?

Re: Brexit
 

Were you sleeping at the height of project fear mk1 :shrug:

Re: Brexit
 

At the end of the day, May has a little more than she did last year. Whether it's enough to sway the vote, time will tell, but she can say she's tried. Junker can also face up to his stakeholders in the event of a no-deal Brexit and say he went the extra kilometre to try and prevent it happening.

---------- Post added at 09:49 ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 ----------

I think ianch99 meant none of them were told by the Leave Campaigns.

Re: Brexit
 

Thank you Andrew ..

Re: Brexit
 

In view of the warnings about a hard brexit who is stockpiling and what are you stockpiling?

I'm not sure whether to do so as lack of space will be my issue. I just hope that the medication I'm prescribed will still be available.I'm already having trouble with one product..

Re: Brexit
 

I always stockpile tinned/preserved and dried food at this time of year ready to stock up the food cupboards on my boat so if we have shortages i'll be semi prepared,and there's
always rabbits /pigeons etc to shoot.

i think i have most of the country's supply of lamb chops in the freezer;)

Re: Brexit
 

Erm yes it was said there could be issues, it was still worth the risk because I wanted to leave the totally corrupted EU. 90% of the World Future Trade growth, sounds a lot better than a declining 10% economic bubble, that will be the EU.

However, Pierre has repeatedly stated he voted Remain. But unlike you, respects the Democratic result.

Re: Brexit
 

Article 50 will need extended even if Theresa May wins the vote.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8723281.html

Re: Brexit
 

Biggest issue with medication is the limits GPs put on renewals. I really had to fight to get one prescription renewed as I was told to take a double dose for a month, so ran out a month early.

Re: Brexit
 

l can concur with you on that as l have had several issues about some of my medications with my surgery.

Re: Brexit
 

My recollection of the Leave campaign is that they did not make it clear that a Leave vote would risk short to medium term harm to the country. As for Pierre, he does support the "mandate" that the Leave result delivered. This "mandate" does not validate the option of short to medium term harm as it was not on the table during the campaign.

So, consequently, the only deal that comes close (ish) to being validated by the Leave "mandate" is Mrs May's. Having said that, I do not recognise the result as a democratic decision for the variety of reasons I have mentioned numerous times previously in this thread.

Re: Brexit
 

I don't think that there will be a hard Brexit and I'm not hoarding anything, but this Breakfast food infographic is interesting.
https://assets.kpmg/content/dam/kpmg...nfographic.pdf

Re: Brexit
 

But despite all the lies from “Both” Leave and Remain camps. Had Remain won, you would had no problem recognising the result and we would miraculously not be having this discussion.

The fact you want yet another referendum, that would be just as bad in the first with scare stories etc and Leave won again on similar %s, should we keep going until we get the result you want, bearing in mind that there will still be people not old enough to vote etc etc.... ?

Re: Brexit
 

I've been stockpiling medication where I can and have increased my stock of tinned goods (i'm lucky in that space isn't an issue).

They say that people shouldn't stockpile as this in itself will cause shortages, but I cannot risk running out of essential medication and need food to take some of it with. I simply daren't risk not doing anything else as I don't trust this incompetent Government and their approach to Brexit.

They are now only just doing very limited tests with lorries being held up and seconding civil servants to deal with the matter, they have made promises which turned out to be lies and changed their minds at the last minute etc.

Re: Brexit
 

We're not stockpiling as there's quite enough food in the cupboards and freezers to last several months. I make the bread anyway and we don't use milk except dried for cooking.

It's only some imported fresh veg, tomatoes and brocolli have been mentioned, that might be affected. The millennials will just have to do without avocados for a while. :D

Re: Brexit
 

l read this the other day on our reliance on food and feed sourced from abroad.

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ad-study-finds

Re: Brexit
 

Planning for extra crops in the allotment this year; still self sufficient in pumpkins/leeks/parsnips and will be for some time...
Have tried stockpiling wine but it never quite works out ;)

Re: Brexit
 

... and it's fresh things that we can't stockpile.

Re: Brexit
 

Get a goat Richard , milk, cheese, little space needed and will keep the weeds, and everything else down. I'm tempted to get one !

Re: Brexit
 

������

On films about dystopian societies, they often have people pinching things from allotments or petrol for generators etc I hope we don't end up like that:(

---------- Post added at 14:57 ---------- Previous post was at 14:56 ----------

Haha now that's an idea. I'll swap you some milk for some of your leeks :D

Re: Brexit
 

And its the perishables which could be in short supply and if that happens then the price is highly likely to shoot up.

Re: Brexit
 

Well, the weather last year has apparently affected crops, so vegetables are due to go up in price anyway. Another reason i've been stockpiling tinned stuff.

Re: Brexit
 

Had one they stink and upset the neighbours.

---------- Post added at 15:27 ---------- Previous post was at 15:25 ----------

Potatoes are quite small this year.

---------- Post added at 15:28 ---------- Previous post was at 15:27 ----------

I gave up my allotment because we are already there.

Re: Brexit
 

Stockpiling cash in dollars and euro preparing for the collapse of the pound on the currency markets.

Re: Brexit
 

Not all your pocket money surely ;):D:D:D:)

Re: Brexit
 

People were already digging your vegetables up :shocked:

Re: Brexit
 

Yellow Vests face Yellow Vests: Fights erupt between anti-Brexit and pro-Brexit supporters

Eyewitness Ed Crawford, a photojournalist, has told The Express: "Both sides met at Trafalgar Square and there were several fights that broke out between UK antifa.

"Multiple people arrested and both sides screaming Nazi at each other.

"Owen Jones was questioned by A pro Brexit campaigner Danny Tommo and things got heated with him being escorted away.

"He claimed the pro Brexit protester was being rude and other pro Brexit protesters were spitting at him.

"A huge entourage of left wing activists escorted him away and loads of people were chasing after him.


https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/10...xit-pro-brexit

Re: Brexit
 

30% of a tenner is nearly £3 ;)

Re: Brexit
 

You’re a Nazi!

No, you’re a Nazi!

Yeah well my dad says you’re a Nazi and my dad could beat up your dad so there!

:rolleyes:

It really has gone the full Python ...

Re: Brexit
 

It’s all rather depressing.

Referenda aren’t really helpful where they aren’t clearly won or lost by decisive majorities. The division in the country is huge and is unlikely to be healed regardless of the outcome.

Switzerland does hold many, but this results in shorter campaigns, less entrenched views and a more mature response to losing. Looking at the results for the last ten years in that country most are settled 60-40 or greater. A number of issues, tax, family income, have been raised in different forms many times, so ongoing results inform policy development going forward. None of the issues are as wholesale or wide-ranging as a black/white question of leaving the EU.

Re: Brexit
 

Belated move by the Met.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46849939

Re: Brexit
 

He can count his blessing he didn’t speak with an Irish accent while carrying a table leg.

Re: Brexit
 

No deal will obviously cause issues in the short and possible medium term. But many think a price worth paying

Re: Brexit
 

Without any ideas “many” would be well advised to avoid speculation, or sheer guesswork, on what future may look like.

Re: Brexit
 

Nothing as it is all scaremongering bollocks, and any one that does is very impressionable.

Re: Brexit
 

Switzerland has an utterly different political culture to the UK. Referendums (not referenda, the Latin word is a verb, not a noun ;) ) are a fundamental part of their process and the top of their government doesn’t even have a president - there’s a committee with a rotating chair.

Referendums are alien to the U.K., and we never held one before the original EU referendum. It is unfortunate that they now have clear precedent when, despite all appearances, the maturity of our own political system is in Parliament.

The one thing nobody’s talking about right now, but which I predict will define the next generation of our politics, is the opportunity Parliament has had here to exert influence. Admittedly it’s doing so when the executive is at a historic low point in its own power and competence, but I believe that once the dust has long settled on Brexit, Parliament will not easily lose its voice.

Re: Brexit
 

It’s called faith in the country. You should try it sometime.

Re: Brexit
 

Faith is for belief in deities, the supernatural, mythology or similar. I suppose appropriate to a fiction like a glorious Brexit.

Re: Brexit
 

I'm sure your faith in the EU will see you through your crisis.

Re: Brexit
 

I think we would be having this discussion ;)

Early on in the campaign before it became clear how well Leave were doing it was hardly a secret than some Eurosceptics were looking to keep the 'loss' over 40% to order to maintain momentum for a future referendum. Remainers were discussing how big the win would need to be in order to 'kill the issue for a generation' and the question of a 2nd Scottish referendum was being discussed too. I think even some members on here were talking about what would be required in order to have another vote.

The vote always had the prospect of a second referendum in the background it was just people thought it was be if Remain won a narrow victory. If it was Remain 52% I am almost certain we would be discussing it.

Doesn't mean it's right. I would be arguing against it. I don't feel as strongly against a second referendum now obviously :D although I still don't really support it.

Re: Brexit
 

Faith doesn’t solve problems, planning does.

Re: Brexit
 

The Pro-Brexit "yellow vests" were handing out these fliers in London today showing a list of the things they, the U.K. Yellow Vests, stand for - I think they meant "against" rather "for" most of the items.

Re: Brexit
 

Well I have faith in myself, my family, my co-workers, our citizens and our nation.

I don’t believe anyone has pre-fixed Brexit with “Glorious”, except you, just then.

It will not be glorious, it will be messy and painful. But that does not mean that ultimately it cannot be successful.

I’ve always been a glass half full kind of person.

---------- Post added at 19:38 ---------- Previous post was at 19:35 ----------

Why call them Pro-Brexit demonstrators? Brexit was only one thing on there, why not call them anti-greedy bankers demonstrators?

Re: Brexit
 

It’s very easy to say if you’re either a) not one of the ones who will be affected or B) one of the ones who don’t understand how you will be affected

Nb not aimed specifically at you, rather a generalisation

Re: Brexit
 

Yes, Referenda :)

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/referenda

Seems either are fine ..

Re: Brexit
 

I'm not sure if I'm an 'A' or a 'B' :erm:

Could you please post some examples of 'A' for me to browse through, just in case I am a 'B' :D

Re: Brexit
 

What about 'referendi'? (Sorry, I'll get my coat.....) :)

Re: Brexit
 

A)
Financially secure
Working in an indemand industry or industry that’s furthest away from the ripples
Etc

B)
financially insecure
Manufacturing industry employee or within supply chain
Lacking in political nouse


The affluent are ultimately not going to be ones who suffer the hardest of shocks

Re: Brexit
 

Because their protests so far have largely been about Brexit and their incoherent list of things they stand for doesn't really add much.

Re: Brexit
 

Whip up a poll we can referenderate the situation:)

Re: Brexit
 

Surely, if Brexit is to be successful in the longer term and not short/medium term then taking the time to get it right is more important than doing it as quickly as possible?

If the plan is to leave on WTO terms surely making sure we are as ready as we can be is more important than adhering to a date decided two years ago when all the discussion was around “how good the deal will be”.

---------- Post added at 20:18 ---------- Previous post was at 20:17 ----------

Can we use the single transferable vote to ensure a decisive outcome ;)

Re: Brexit
 

Well, I don't trust this Government and their muddled approach to Brexit and can't afford to take any chances as, without my medication, I would probably die.

I usually stockpile canned foodstuff in case there are any problems with supply or delivery, but I must admit i've got more than usual.

If Brexit doesn't go ahead, a deal is reached or there doesn't turn out to be any problems I won't have lost anything as it will all still get used eventually.

---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 20:25 ----------

As is usually the case. If things start to go wrong I genuinely fear there could be riots. Whilst I do have sympathy with people who are poor or are in insecure jobs, I wouldn't want any problems at any domestic or commercial premises of mine or anyone else's.

Re: Brexit
 

Whatever happened to we’re all in this together.

Brexit appealed to the lowest common denominator in society so it can’t be considered a surprise that when it doesn’t deliver to expectations they will kick out.

It’d be preferable for any riots or looting to be larger, sending the country further into crisis. It’d focus the minds of our politicians and we’d maybe see some honesty for a change.

Re: Brexit
 

Riots? Looting? I think we underestimate the apathy of the masses..... As long as Strictly is on, and they can still order pizza, they'll keep their heads down and descend into a diabetic coma.

Re: Brexit
 

Some one's probably at home right now banging their head against the wall saying oops :banghead:

Re: Brexit
 

l hope l am not included in your description of the masses as l don't watch Strictly and l don't order pizza.;)

Re: Brexit
 

Then you'll be the one rioting Den ;)

Re: Brexit
 

An American English online dictionary without any discussion or etymology? No thanks ...

The Oxford English Dictionary says no, but seeing as it’s behind a paywall the closest we can get to its wisdom is sadly via a discussion of it at Wikipedia ...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum

In short, because it is coined in English as an English noun, and not according to its Latin usage, it should be pluralised according to English grammatical rules, not Latin ones. Hence referendums, not referenda.

Dictionary.com is simply recording the fact that the word is used in that way, not necessarily that it is correct to do so.

But we digress. :)

Re: Brexit
 

Not for me Mr K as l don't fancy spending a night in the cell and having a criminal record at the end of it all.:)

Re: Brexit
 

I said it’d be preferable in the event of leaving.

However yes, I agree with your point about general apathy.

Re: Brexit
 

I have just found out that the Tory MP leavers want to build a wall straight up the middle of the English channel.:D

Re: Brexit
 

There's always the Cambridge English Dictionary as a falllback.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...ish/referendum

Or even Oxford Living Distionaries.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/referendum

From example sentences.

Re: Brexit
 

Interesting side debate. :) Annoying we can't see the OED.
Side point: ianch99's link referenced Collins (a UK publisher not US) and it has referenda available as a plural. My preference is referendums for as you say, referendum has been brought into the English language.
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/di...ish/referendum

Re: Brexit
 

If a word is used incorrectly enough it gets defined that way.

It literally kills me when it happens.

Re: Brexit
 

Lol, thank you for your contribution from the next world. :)

Meanwhile, Theresa May could be facing a coup if she loses the vote on Tuesday. The Sunday Times reports that a cross-party group of backbenchers are planning to take control of exit talks if her plan falls through.
https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2019/01/8.jpg

Re: Brexit
 

I did spot a link to that on Twitter, wasn’t 100% sure how to link to the image. A genuinely interesting article that frames the difficulty of our ‘unwritten’ constitution.

It’s based on norms and common practice. It doesn’t specify an arbiter or ultimate decision maker.

The supremacy of the Commons over the Lords is in statute in the Parliament Act.

The belief is that the will of Government and Parliament can’t be too far apart. In normal times that would be true, a Government would be free to drop a policy it viewed as too contentious, or to make a deal in common ground. Generally a Government wouldn’t be able to be held to ransom by the DUP, or even a jilted ex-Minister and a few friends.

We’ve got a Chancellor who is in the role because May can’t remove him

These are truly uncharted waters.

The Government is presently in contempt of Parliament, a situation that can only embolden the Speaker. If the Government seeks to remove Bercow that only increases the crisis.

Our political system wasn’t designed for a situation where a Government pushes a policy that the majority of MPs oppose, yet it could very well win a vote of confidence.

Re: Brexit
 

I watch Strictly but don't order pizza. A better analogy would be BB or Love Island (neither of which I watch). Strictly is frightfully middle class don't you know?

Would rather see A50 extended and an acceptable deal worked out, than dropping of a cliff edge into no deal.

Before the referendum was called, I suspect no thought whatsoever was given to the NI border issues relating to the GFA. May getting into bed with the DUP has hampered negotiations ever since, but the election results meant to govern she needed other support.

Adversarial politics mean we are where we are.

Re: Brexit
 

Final word is to be had by the formidable Betty Boothroyd :)

UK Politics: News Referendums or referenda?

Re: Brexit
 

Hilarious in a twisted kind of way.
They don't seem to have learnt from the populists with their more memorable (albeit undeliverable) slogans of "lock her up", "take back control", "build the wall".

---------- Post added at 09:54 ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 ----------

Don't think the EU is keen on an extension just for more negotiations but it knows that a no-deal is not good for anyone. Due to the delay in negotiations, there are now two things to sort out and not one.
1) Withdrawal Agreement. This is meant to be a fairly quick agreement around costs due etc. Theresa May laid down her red lines so the options open should be relatively straightforward.
2) Free trade agreement. This is where the negotiations really begin eg fishing rights, degree of commons standards, access to each other's markets, etc. The EU is saving its energies for this as it will be a long-term situation.

The NI border was flagged up but derided as Project Fear. I think some on here even mentioned it as a non-issue invented by Remainers.

Re: Brexit
 

They love their 'plots' these unimaginative headline writers. Also.'traitors' and 'saboteurs' are favourite ones.
The Fail has.maged to get 2 of them into one headline, well done !

Re: Brexit
 

No one is a traitor and no one is a saboteur as some in this country need to get a grip as that language helps no one at the end of the day..

Re: Brexit
 

Well that's certainly an opinion den but clearly one that is not shared by many members of the public or voters as they like to be called.

Re: Brexit
 

True

No. MPs were selected by the majority of voters in their respective constituencies. Claiming they are traitors for looking out for what they see as the best interests of their constituents is typical DM/Express tension stirring.

Re: Brexit
 

Guy Fawkes was the only decent 'plotter'. Country might rue the day he failed....

Re: Brexit
 

Once again that's an interesting opinion that you have, but i think it's the way many people feel and that's why the papers print it .

Re: Brexit
 

Wrong papa as the papers print it to stir it up hate and dissent with their irresponsible front page banner headlines.

Re: Brexit
 

People buy papers that reflect their politics/views .

You can't just dismiss my comments as wrong just because it makes you feel uncomfortable because you buy a paper with a different political bias.

Re: Brexit
 

Which came first, the papers printing the claims, or the agreement with those particular papers?

Re: Brexit
 

l am not dismissing anybody's comments as l am just stating that many of the headlines we have seen in these past two years have been irresponsible front page grabbing headlines.

l don't buy newspapers as they have basically gone too far away from what a newspaper should be printing and have basically become nothing more then their owners own political vehicle.

Re: Brexit
 

Think it's more a case of some people buy papers to tell them what to think ( to save themselves the bother). Their circulation continues to fall though.

Re: Brexit
 

Yes the Guardian and the independent have a lot to answer for.

Re: Brexit
 

Along with many of the others...

Re: Brexit
 

Re: Brexit
 

We weren't all in it together when austerity started and we won't be in it together with any fallout from Brexit.

Re: Brexit
 

Technical extension until July likely.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...-at-least-july

Re: Brexit
 

The EU cannot delay anything, it is not up to them - the UK has passed a law, we leave on 29th March 2019 and as previously said, Statute can only be changed with another Statute.

From Dominic Grieve himself:

"Govt should immediately remove Brexit date from domestic law if it loses on Tuesday - without doing that there is no point in going to the EU and asking for an extension."

Re: Brexit
 

The mechanics are irrelevant. We aren’t in a position to leave on 29th March, so it’s a matter of when we ask, not if. There’s no way Parliament wouldn’t vote to extend (given they want to remain anyway).

It’s good to know the EU have their finger on the pulse though.

Re: Brexit
 

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

The Mechanics are not irrelevant!!!

I trust the word of the former Attorney General, who knows a thing or two about law than you will ever know.

We leave on 29th March 2019, nothing you say alters that!!! :rolleyes:

Re: Brexit
 

I’m not being deliberately obtuse.

There’s no need to be disrespectful either because you don’t agree.

When May’s deal goes down there’s no chance that she will actually go through with no deal on 29th March. We need six Bills passed and a few hundred statutory instruments to facilitate Brexit and don’t have the time to do it.

At that point the Government and Parliament agree on one narrow point (to amend the existing or replace legislation). I’m not actually disagreeing with Dominic Grieve.

Re: Brexit
 

Yes you are!

I am not being disrespectful, it's just you keep saying the same factually inaccurate things.

Saying the mechanics are irrelevant when they are actually not.

I repeat - The date is set - we leave on 29th March, 2019, unless a new Statute is passed and it's the government of the day, who actually puts forward this change.

Re: Brexit
 

Yes we are.

Re: Brexit
 

The mechanics don’t matter when Government and Parliament agree.

The Government has to ask the EU for an extension, if it does, and the EU agree as suggested in the linked article then Parliament won’t stand in the way.

Re: Brexit
 

We shall see? Particularly now the government has to come up with an alternative within 3 days, as May's current deal on the table seems likely to be rejected.

Delay in having a vote has given us less time to sort things out.

Re: Brexit
 

Between now and leaving Parliament needs to pass:

Trade Bill
Agriculture Bill
Fisheries Bill
Healthcare Bill
Immigration Bill
Financial services Bill
Withdrawal Agreement

Re: Brexit
 

The Government has no plans and has repeatedly ruled out extending A50. So as I said... The mechanics do matter. The sooner you accept that, the better.

Re: Brexit
 

If you are right, which I don’t believe you are, my acceptance or otherwise is an irrelevance.

We will see what happens after Tuesday. The can is getting kicked. They all deep down want to, they just want to blame someone else for it.

You are pinning your hopes on people you can’t trust to deliver what you want. The sooner you accept that, the better.

Re: Brexit
 

Can we keep this thread to facts please. Not your own personal presumptions.

You have clearly no clue what you’re talking about and try not to profess to know what I am hoping on, for a start, I don’t do “hope”.

Re: Brexit
 

We’ll see.

The facts are Parliament is majority Remainers and Theresa May is good at saying one thing and doing another when it’s advantageous (the 2017 election she ruled out so often being just one example).

I get that you really don’t want it to happen but that really has no bearing on the likelihood once she loses the vote on Tuesday.