Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have been thinking more about Judicial Reviews and Complaints to the Parliamentary Ombudsman with regards the Home Office and Information Commissioner's Office.

Judicial Review
My understanding of the guidance notes is that due to the ICO and HO both issuing public statements we may be able to question the procedures they followed in developing and delivering the statements.

Home Office
As we know the Home Office released a statement regarding Phorm and RIPA but in it they stated the statement was neither a legal or technical analysis and that no such analysis had been done. it is reasonable to assume that the general public would see a Home Office statement as one of authority, which is (I presume) why Nicholas Bohm/FIPR sent the letter to the Home Secretary asking for the statement to be withdrawn. It is my belief that the Home Office as a result of this statement have not followed adequate procedures in order to develop the statement (as in they have no investigated the matter in either a technical or legal respect), so I believe a Judicial Review may be possible.

ICO
ICO, in their statement have claimed that Phorm does not breach the Data Protection Act but have also stated that they have not carried out any investigation and have based their judgement purely on information provided to the by Phorm. It is my view that ICO have not complied with Due Dilligence (which is procedural by definition) by not carrying out an investigation. Therefore, again I believe they might be open to a Judicial Review.

Parliamentary Ombudsman
Parliamentary Ombudsman is a road I am currently heading down. I intend to fire off a letter to my MP next week once my schedule has quietened down a little and should my grievances not be satisfied I am planning to go forward with a full complaint to the Parliamentary Ombudsman with regards the lack of action by ICO, Home Office and the Police on the issue of the covert 2006/2007 trials.

I will look into the procedures some more this evening if I get a chance, but I suspect this option is one we should all consider as the more complaint the Parliamentary Ombudsman get, the more likely they are to deal with the matter in a serious fashion.

I have emailed Nicholas Bohm for some more information on the Judicial Review process and whether or not he feels it is a suitable course of action, so I will update once I hear back from him.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

OK, I agree it's unlikely to be small speculators.

It could be, as you say, someone trying to drive the price up before dumping a big holding. I've noticed that large holdings tend to be dumped after 4pm, so it will be worth looking out for.

It could also be phorm shoreing which leads to speculation of why now?

Push price up, publish phorm friendly PIA this evening after close of business and leave the weekend for people to digest the PIA in preparation for Monday's opening?

---------- Post added at 15:36 ---------- Previous post was at 15:23 ----------

Another thought.

Apart from commercial exploitation of you copyright material your fee could also cover permission to forge the cookie in your domain.

Failure to pay could then also be pursued via Fraud/Computer Misuse Acts.

i.e. try to cover as many laws as possible in your T&C's, leaving you with many options to pursue in cases of non-payment.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Okay that is fair enough. But what excuse do the other Tories (and a major section of Labour) have?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Exactly the same applies to all the Yahoo geocities sites as well - just checked. Google simply returns a 404 when asked to look for robots.txt on a google verified BTYahoo! geocities site that I just created, and for which I uploaded a robots.txt file.

Geocities is the current ISP free webspace available to BTYahoo! customers. BTOpenworld is the legacy space which older customers like me still have but is not available to new customers.
I imagine the same applies to the wider Yahoo/Geocities sites too which must number millions and are by and large, personal pages run by families.

Both sorts DON'T allow a website owner to modify robots.txt. So that is the entire BT customer base of free webspace that doesn't actually work with one of the legal workarounds they are trying to convince us about, in the Webwise/Phorm model they are promoting.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

i like the phinking ;)

http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugi...pic.php?5533.0

" felixcatuk
Lets suppose,

- Home Office and Police fail to enforce RIPA (as they have done)
- Information Commissioner fails to enforce DPA/PECR (as they have done)
- European bodies act 12 months after its too late to stop Phorm
- BT are going to steal my copright material from my web sites, whatever my T&Cs

I guess I'd be entitled to impose penal charges for unauthorised commercial use of my web site.

In my T&Cs I make it clear; BT indicate their consent to pay penal charges by setting a phorged Phorm UID.

Now what I'm thinking is this. If Phorm is detectable using client side/server side methods, I can write a script to create 'CDR' (call detail record) billing information. BT will know what CDRs are.

From that billing information I can create an invoice which totals the number of 'calls' and the price (less friends and family discounts etc). This invoice can be sent to the ISP with a demand for unpaid royalties.

I think I feel another Dephormation script coming together.

[ Edited Fri May 09 2008, 01:38PM ]

BT/Virgin/TalkTalk customers - you don't need Webwise and Phorm, pure and simple.
Don't be a passive recipient of Phorm cookies. Find a Phorm Free ISP.
Protect your privacy. Protect your web content. Phorm must be stopped.
www.Dephormation.org.uk: Free Anti-Phorm Countermeasures for Firefox Users and Web Sites
PhormUKPRTeam/PhormUKTechTeam is a PR consultant from Citigate Dewe Rogerson.
RIPA: ISPs HAVE NO CONSENT FOR INTERCEPTION OF THIS TRANSMISSION "

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yup. Google is just following the RFC for robots.txt here. It should only look in the root of each domain. However Google also checks for meta tags on each page. This is one reason why checking robots.txt isn't good enough.


http://www.robotstxt.org/faq/shared.html

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

OK. Stock at 1800 now.

http://finance.google.com/finance?q=LON:PHRM

Something has happened or is about to happen. If phorm are driving it up, it's for a reason.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

insider trading ? do you think.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I just contacted one of my many press contacts (I seem to be collecting quite a list) who works for the Financial Times to see if she has any insight on the strange market behaviour with Phorm's stock today. Will update once I get a reply.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I like it.

They can pay a daily fee of £100 for permission to forge my identity (through redirects and cookie settings), then pay me £10 for each and every instance of commercial exploitation of my copyright web pages.

£10 is excellent value imho, as my web pages often describe enterprise grade software products like WebLogic and Oracle which sell for tens of thousands of pounds.

Pete.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Maybe watching this Forum & decided they need to invest at around 4.00pm, or though unlikely been given the go ahead for their Testing?

If the latter then some Insider Trading???

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I suspect it's phorm buying their own shares. A £57k block sold for more than the asking price!

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShareTrades.asp...re=phorm_reg_s

I'd bet my hat on this being preparation for publication of a phorm friendly PIA.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Dropping back...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes the balloon is expanding rapidly, the skin is stretching painfully thin. It's scary to watch this inflation before our very eyes... hands up who will flinch when they see the pin? ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Bang on. The thing is, although the volumes traded are up on recent days, they are nothing like when the price is really moving up or down.

This is an artificially induced blip involving not too much money being spent.

But they are doing it for a reason.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What pin?

Hold the noise down, I'm trying to aim...;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You made me jump.

I'm guessing they are trying to prop the price up over the weekend when there's no trading.

Two days when it looks like its holding its value perhaps?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Does anyone remember some oldie talent show... this particular clip is often repeated in other clip remembering shows over the years.

There is a strongman act, and the guy has a hot water bottle which he blows up before the audience... it creeks and it groans !SNIP! sorry I won't spoil the ending for anyone that hasn't seen it. :rofl:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Back to 1800, there was another buy...I think.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yup

TIME PRICE BID ASK VOLUME PRICE B/S TYPE
16:17:46 1800p 1725p 1725p 150 £2,700 BUY O


Something VERY weird is going on - why would someone buy at ABOVE the Bid and Ask Price?????? But also notice - its only 150 Shares - so a really small amount.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don't think there is much point driving it up unless they think something is going to happen to keep it up. Perception management?

If a glowing PIA is released this evening and people see the share price increase today, they will be queueing up to buy in on Monday morning.

To a large extent, the share price is all about perception. If it went down to 10p phorm would still be in business. They would have lost the ability to raise more cash, along with their business credibility though.

Interesting day (I should get out more!).

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

My contact at FT is extremely surprised too, she is doing some digging.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Could well be a director buy then, showing confidence etc.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I would be very surprised if the PIA is coming out today, I know Simon is incredibly busy this week with an issue of international significance based on an email I received from him earlier in the week. So I can't see it being the PIA as I can't honestly see him as having had time to finish it.

My FT contact suggests that maybe someone has put out a fresh buy note on it this afternoon, she is looking into the afternoon announcements to see if there is anything there.

If we are lucky Phorm PR team will be feeling a little braver and come back out from under their rocks, which would be nice, I kinda miss them.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It could be, but if a favourable PIA is published shortly, that would be insider trading I think.

I'm certainly no expert on this and I don't know where the dividing line is between shoreing your share price and insider trading.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

From my understanding they could buy as they are not in an official closed period.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think some broker ripped of the buyer or they paid a premium for buying so little.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Like the avatar serial but it is missing one important ingrediant

webwise :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Commission wouldn't show up on the share price tho would it - that would be only on the Brokers figures?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That will be interesting..oh, I've put a link to your dissertation on my backwater website. A poor thing, but mine own..;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Also don't forget there are other companies with vested interests who would not want Phorm to fail, it would definitely affect their own business profiles.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Regulator gets power to fine for data breaches

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05...on_data_fines/

"The ICO has repeatedly asked for stronger powers to investigate and fine companies which are failing to take data protection seriously."

:LOL:

As much use as giving a machine-gun to a nun.

This means if you are a small business or a school or college etc, and you don't get your bits of paper in on time, you had better really watch out!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I want powers to fine a regulator who doesn't take data protection seriously.

:naughty:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That's a bit odd in itself though don't you think? 80/20 were commissioned to produce the PIA by the end of April. Would it be acceptable to their client to hear that "we're a bit busy at the mo so you'll have to wait". Seems unlikely. It is more likely that the PIA has been delivered to schedule. It's just not been shared with anyone yet. Like the video of your interview. Indeed, after all the time it has been talked about on this forum, do Phorm have to actually share it with anyone? I mean, if you didn't like it, couldn't you just rip it up? You may have wasted the commission fee but you'll have contained the damage.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You've obviously not watched The Sound of Music recently!!!!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks, but trying to get this basic animated gif at the limit of 29.3k was hard enough :)

---------- Post added at 18:24 ---------- Previous post was at 18:21 ----------

It could be that due to changes in the system they have been given an extension, this would have clashed with Simons other work etc etc speculating etc.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

well it lets BT of the hook
The Criminal Justice and Immigration Act got Royal Assent today. Sadly the law is not retroactive, so the long list of government departments which have lost or endangered our data in recent months will not be fined.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Don't worry. Plenty of existing laws BT broke.:)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think not serial. It is a shame that Alexander logged off before giving his view especially as he is in closer contact with Simon. At the very least, the statement on the 80/20 site: "a final version of the PIA will be published by the end of April 2008" would be inaccurate.

No, I think the Assessment is with Phorm. When you buy something in business, you expect delivery on time.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

80/20 have been slow to update their site, it still said they had carried out the PIA until last weekend when someone pointed out it should say "interim" PIA and Simon popped on to say it had just been changed.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes, these little "oversights" make all the difference though don't they? I'm not sure why but the expression "more faces than a town hall clock" has just sprung into my mind.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Rubber glove time.

http://www.phorm.com/user_privacy/pr...act_report.php

End of second paragraph.

"We will work with 80/20 Thinking on an ongoing basis throughout the year to complete the assessment and ensure we confirm our leading privacy standards." (my emphasis)

Anybody know if that's a recent change?

I'm certain the PIA won't be released if it is seen to be negative to phorm, but we have had our 'expectations managed' so i'm not expecting it to be.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Not at all, as Simon has stated on here himself he has been waiting for information back from the ISPs is he supposed to sit around on his backside and neglect his other duties just because the ISPs are dragging their heals?

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No, of course not. Nicely defended.

Spot on, which is why all this 'wait to see what the PIA says' lark is a complete waste of time.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No it is not. This is a small cap, thinly traded stock with high volitility. When you buy or sell you are likely to be doing it through a market maker that needs to hold inventory to be able to make that market. Market makers don't like holding inventory that costs them money, a cost to carry and a cost or risk of price falling to less than you paid. To mitigate this latter risk the spread, the difference between buying and selling prices widens.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

More thoughts on copyrights.

In the old days when 121Media were scamming copyright pages, it was difficult for people to know that someone was ripping off their content, or discover who was doing it.

Now BT/Virgin Media/Talk Talk are doing it, its very easy. They have made announcements on their web site. They have UK registered addresses. They will (presumeably) announce to advertisers '3% of our customers have opted in to Phorm!'

So it occurs to me. Its rather like a pirate radio station going legit.

How do I get from BT statistics for 'playout'?

We need a PRS for web content creators;

"The Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 means that if you use copyright music in public, you must first obtain permission from every writer or composer whose music you intend to play. In the UK, we represent these copyright owners, so a PRS Music Licence gives you the legal permission to play just about any copyright music in the world repertoire. A PRS Music Licence is required regardless of the ownership of any other type of licence"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sounds like you might know a bit more about this stocky sharey thingy than most of us. :tu:

What's you take on todays events?

Given it is thinly traded, it does not take much to drive the price up. But, there is not much point in doing so if it's just going to come back down again, you just loose your money.

Someone decided that today, the shares would rise and there must be a reason. Any ideas?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You could be right there before there was noone like phorm trying to legit steal your work or customers now thye are just like the music industry you need protection from the vulchers.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

They did another buy at 4:29 if I've read it right..smelly.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I have to admit I have been wondering a lot about that issue lately. Not just in relation to the PIA but also the mysterious case of the vanishing video. Not sure what I think on it yet but it is on my mind.

Phorm do seem to be playing a wiser tactical game these days. They have reigned in the PR team (I bizarrely miss them too, how messed up is that? LOL) and do seem to have upped their game some.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

OK I had a reply from Nicholas Bohm. He pointed out that whereas a Judicial Review might be possible the risk is high since the loser may be liable for the other side's costs. Obviously if a litigant in person wins and the authority lose, the cost liability to the authority is going to be minor and gets paid for out of tax payers money anyway; the reverse however is a much heavier liability should the litigant lose as the authority are likely to have a legal team of barristers and Queen's Counsel.

He does agree that Parliamentary Ombudsman would be a reasonable avenue to pursue but warns that it is a very slow process.

I will therefore be pushing forward on that route and will have to forget the Judicial Review route.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

them wise! never they conmen

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

And i'm sure a WCCRS licence would have to be very expensive. :angel:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

This may be an old idea but keeping in mind "6 degrees of separation" if all the folk who use Facebook, Myspace, etc explained the Phorm/Webwise situation to all their friends and asked them to pass it along we might reach out to lots of people who are as yet unaware of the threat and who otherwise might opt-in out of ignorance of the true facts.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I didn't say they were wise I said they were using wiser tactics. Not difficult, though, considering they started off incredibly stupidly.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Just to recap, I'm awaiting replies from BT management on the following:

1 - The ISPA statements in October 2007 about how they "cannot monitor or record the type of information passed over their network. ISPs are no more able to inspect and filter every single packet passing across their network than the Post Office is able to open every envelope... data protection legislation actually prevents ISPs from looking at the content of the packets sent " and whether that has application to the current situation with webwise/phorm.

2 - The Struan Robertson article that points out the contradiction between statements that Phorm can be instructed by an OIX partner to send ads to an individual based on what they viewed 2 days previously, and the statement that Phorm "never knows who you are, it can't find out and it has no record of where you've been"

3 - The "Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008" which result in an automatic DPA breach (with the need for ICO action) if other legislation has been breached (even the "technical breaches" that Struan Robertson thinks don't matter).

4 - The fact that the robots.txt method of excluding Webwise/Phorm, promoted and recommended by Phorm and by BT, won't work on the BT hosted customer websites, whether on BTOpenworld or on BTYahoo!/Geocities because webmasters do not have access to the toplevel domain where robots.txt is stored, and which NOT include any exclusion clauses such as those which would exclude Google or Phorm.

I'll either post the replies here or the gist of them if there is not consent to publish exact text.
Have a good weekend everyone.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Keep in mind the comments here; robots is a method of exclusion not a method of inclusion.

In other words robots is the same old opt out idiocy. You can't follow an opt out model of copyright abuse, violation of privacy, communication interception etc.

---------- Post added at 23:53 ---------- Previous post was at 23:47 ----------

And speaking of copyright abuse I've coded up a CDR generator.

If you're feeling kind, please help me test by clicking here;

http://www.dephormation.org.uk:8080/..._cdr/usage.php

If you're feeling very generous, please try the following link too (sets a temporary Phorm UID alike cookie);

http://www.dephormation.org.uk:8080/...ge.php?debug=y

No invoices will follow. :)

Please feel free to click a few times. You'll either see CDR LOGGED or NO CDR LOGGED according to the copyright risk/RIPA risk identified by the code. If you're with a Phorming ISP or you present a Phorm UID (by using the debug link) then you'll be classed a high risk (and a log entry will be created). If you're on a non-Phorm ISP you'll be classed a low risk (and no log is created).

Sadly, people who share the same IP address range as Phorm in Delaware or Moscow may see the words 'Sorry!'.

This is a known fault. :angel:

I'll release the code once I'm happy its doing what was intended.

If you think the code hasn't classified your request correctly, please can you drop me a PM (ideally with your IP/ISP details).

Pete.

UPDATE; thanks for your test clicks, its made/making a huge difference to the code, please keep clicking, thank you!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Can I suggest a clear distinction is made between the 2006 and 2007 trials as the technology did differ considerably e.g. PageSense parsing pages with Javascript, and ProxySense being server-based (and therefore more like Webwise).

IANAL and I don't know whether this is significant legally but perhaps it is?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'd get that fixed PDQ if I was you. You know what people are like if they feel they are being discriminated against. :shocked:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes - I am bearing that in mind and I agree, hence the caveats in my post and in my email to BT about the fact that webmaster opt-OUT is no substitute for explicit informed consent.

But nevertheless my aim is to create maximum confusion and embarrassment and extra work for my own ISP by criticising the method they are suggesting, not just on legal grounds, but because it doesn't even work practically - it lowers their general credibility when the explanations they give about website opt-OUT don't even apply to their own customer-base ISP hosted webspace.

What about VM customer webspace? Does that work the same way?
What have VM said about webmaster opt-out and robots.txt? Can it be used on VM customer webspace? Has anyone asked VM about it?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Spotted by Peter N over on the BT forum. Insider trading?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/mai...xmktrep110.xml

"Online advertising technology group Phorm soared 425p to £17.62½ on speculation that it was close to sealing a large new contract"

IF that's true, expect a new influx of anti-Phorm forum members.

Mind you - it's all rumours - another take -

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/47be7fde-1...nclick_check=1

"
Phorm , internet advertising group, surged 32 per cent to £17.62 on rumours BT was set to start trialing its WebWise ad-serving system."

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yep, it was in my reply from my local Labour MP. She is a parliamentary private secretary. She explained that EDMs are a way "To put pressure on the Government"

To BadPhormula's point, my take on this is that some Labour MPs might still sign it (but that makes them "rebels" and is a career limiting decision!). However, I don't see why any Tory or other flavour MP would not be able to sign (unless they had cross party discussions and used it as part of a bargaining point to get something else on their agenda forward...)

So keep asking your MP - and why not ask even if they are a Labour one, nothing to lose? If they are not in a big job for the current Government, they might sign it.

Hank

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Vm just ignore everything i e-mail them r-jones im writing to CEO this week and telling them this amongst other things (i.e Secret Trials), sick of the standard we havent implemented webwise blah,blah crap then ignore my 2 follow up's stating they have not answered my questions.

The first reply i got didnt even have my correct name on it dont forget a guy admitted to me on the phone that trials were on the ex ntl platform i pointed this out to them also and the silence i have had is a sign of guilt in my eyes, all i asked for was a written or e-mailed reply stating that as a concerned custormer of long standing i was no part of a trial in 2007.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I heard an industry leader called 'Berk' (or something like that) had described a concept called 'Net Neutrality' as being rather like testicles.

I didn't understand that comparison, it sort of suggests a confusion between technology and biology.

Anyway. There are two ends to the pipe. His end. And my end. With a single cut/paste I can block the pipe to him.

I'm pleased to say I have discovered the fault may be fixable, but I put the cost of fixing it at around £2.5M. If anyone from Virgin/BT/TalkTalk/Phorm would like to cover the cost of fixing please send me a PM and a cheque marked "urgent".

Pete.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

vm webspace doesnt allow anything other than static html pages (not including a small subset of the old companys network that did see fit to use a real webserver package)no bin dir,nothing, so its assumed robots etc wont work eather.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think someone with half a brain in their PR machine realised at some point that "engaging" with technically savvy customers was a waste of time precisely because we do understand how their system will work. So the decision was made to disengage from an informed debate that they knew they couldn't win, and go into silent-running mode.

The only people they'll talk to now are potential clients (ISPs, advertisers) and, if they're absolutely forced to, regulators and legislators.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've been reading the BT forums for updates on Phormware and came across an interesting discussion.

Now that VM have made it clear that they never signed any contract to use Webwise, if it is established that Phorm deliberately misrepresented the potential value of the company, thereby effectively conning the stock market and share buyers into believing that they had an extremely valuable contract with a huge company, Phorm could be in serious trouble, their shares could be suspended and they could face fines and possible prison sentences for any individual who is proven to have been involved in what is effectively fraud.

It was also suggested that an investigation into this matter is already underway but there is no confirmation of this from any source.

Do you or anyone else have any information on this?


I also read somewhere that Amazon maybe close to signing up to the OIX

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Where did you read this? It could certainly account for the sudden hike in the Phorm share price yesterday...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've been vigorously searching but can't find the source :erm: If it turns out to be true, we'll hear about it soon i'd imagine.

What about the latest on the ICO's new powers to 'fine for data breaches'?.
Sadly the law is not retroactive, so maybe he can't try them out on Phorm?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Pete

I've just been looking at your post on the new system over on Badphorm.

Might I suggest you offer the ISP's 60 days payment terms if they wish to pass on the costs to their users? This will give them a chance to collect the money.

Of course, if they are to do this, they should warn all users to check the T&C's of all sites they visit as they may now be liable for billing by visiting certain sites.

No doubt when the system is finalised you will have a download and description page. When that appears I am sure we will all want to reference it and demand to know from our ISP's if they will be passing on the costs to us.

:D

The system needs a name. How about ContentWise?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hands up who is still reading this thread from start to end. and have just got to this post.

6271 posts in total.
If you were to read 100 posts a day it would take you about 2 months to find out that your T&Cs have been altered :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If you have then well done. How long did it take?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'm up to #56

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

See you in July then.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I started reading this thread when it had 29 pages. Glad I check it regularly, reading over 400 pages would be very daunting! :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don't know if this has already been mentioned, as I didn't feel like reading the whole thread. From this bit of their FAQ, it seems their system relies on cookies:
In which case it should be fairly simple to block. People using Firefox should get this extension:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1247 [Cookie Button]

Then in Firefox's privacy options, turn off the option to accept cookies from sites. When you visit a site that uses cookies, Cookie Button's icon in the toolbar will show whether the site you're currently viewing has had its cookies blocked or not [red X = blocked, green tick = allowed]. If you use a site for which you want to allow cookies [e.g. staying logged in to CF] then you can click on the Cookie Button & set it to "Allow cookies from <site addy>".

Unfortunately I don't know of an equivalent tool for Maxthon [or IE], though you can achieve a similar result by going to Control Panel -> Internet Options -> Privacy tab. Then click the advanced button, & set the various options as follows:
Override automatic cookie handling: on
First party cookies: either prompt or block, though if you set it to block you'll have to go back & set it to prompt if you come across a a site that you want to allow but haven't previously.
Third party cookies: block
Always allow session cookies: off.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The investigation is good news as it will prove one way or another which is not telling the truth between Kent and VM which ever loses this will reflect badly on their companies.

As for amazon I have just sent this email off to Esther who has been replying to my emails on the terms and conditions. Maybe if others sent in similar emails, if this does happen then Amazon cookies will be removed as wil my details on their website. I will find other places to buy from I used Amazon as I trusted them with my privacy if/once signed upto phorm I would lose trust in them.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The most effective way to stop Phorm affecting any aspect of your web traffic (including stuff you read in Outlook, OpenOffice, Instant Messenger apps too btw) is simply to drop your ISP like a brick.

I wrote an add on for Firefox that forces your 'opt out' preference, but its pretty ineffective as a privacy & security measure, because you are effectively at the mercy of a company with a history of writing spyware and rootkits.

<--- So now I'm with Aquiss, and loving it.

So, feeling lucky?

Pete.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Worked for me. I am a serious risk since I am with BT and I am therefore at risk of being a carrier of the now well known infection "Phormitis" :shocked:

Yes it said "CDR Logged" for both my clicks.

Hank

---------- Post added at 14:16 ---------- Previous post was at 14:12 ----------

:smokin:I am phortunately a regular reader and started in March - phew!

Welcome anyone new who has just got to this page :welcome:

Hank

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Haven't used OE in ages, I use Thunderbird for email. OO only gets used for reading downloaded documents & occasionally creating some, so not sure how that 1 could be an issue, & I haven't done any IMing in ages, & when I did I was using Trillian.

Fairly, yes. :p: Reason being that I don't just rely on the measures I mentioned. I've actually been called paranoid for the lengths I do go to with some things. Aside from the aforementioned browser security measures, I also use Proxomitron, DNSKong [I swiped the domains from your code to add to my block list ;)], Kaspersky Anti Virus, & Comodo firewall. I rarely see adverts at all when surfing the net, & when I do I block them [unless it's a site's own special offer or something & I can't be bothered]. I just wish Firefox had a regular expression filter as elegant as Maxthon's. It's kind of like the Remove It Permanently extension, but uses regular expressions instead of XPaths.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:D I don't care what the ISP does when it gets the royalties bill.

I don't see why my creative efforts should be used to subsidise free network access for people too tight fisted to pay for their internet connection, or fund ISP network upgrades so they can offer a bogus 'unlimited connection' without shame or embarrasment, or even simply line the pockets of their investors [which is the most likely outcome IMHO].

I like the name :D " This domain name is already registered" :(

www.make-easy-money-from-content-thieves.com is still available, perhaps I should register that one instead.

Pete

---------- Post added at 14:57 ---------- Previous post was at 14:37 ----------

Sounds like you're well tooled up.

But this might intrigue you...
Thunderbird User Agent Analysis on BadPhorm.

If you open a mail in Thunderbird on Windows with remote embedded content (images, Javascripts or iframes etc) then the resulting web request user-agents fields are identical to Internet Explorer.

That means Phorms wonder user-agent filter no one has seen would fail to protect you... and they would know what newsletters you had viewed, when you viewed them, which domain they came from, what IP address/Phorm UID they were served to, what keywords were in the URL request, and any content returned.

:erm:

Sorry.

Would you like the number for Aquiss? 01746 708090 ;)

Pete

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Both clicks I had no cdr on first one and cdr logged on second if you get cdr logged on both I would be worried and check for cookies this could be that BT are again running tests without informed consent would be good if we can catch them actually doing it live now....


I dread having to go back looking for things I know we covered but needed the info again.

Welcome to all new members.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I get CDR logged on both. I think it checks whether you are on a POTENTIALLY phormed ISP (BT, VM, t'other one) OR have a Webwise phorged cookie.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi All, Many thanks again for all the hard work you are all putting in to this fight! Slightly off topic I am a bit worried about when I clicked on the link to the video of the Phorm meeting the other day. I am not too computer literate but my AVG free edition picked up a virus which I put in the Virus Vault and I then cleared it, I also cleared my temporary internet files. The next day when AVG did a scan it picked a "HTML/Framer" as a threat, I think that this was in the temporary internet files again and I cleared them again. AVG has never found anything before and it seems ok now?. I do not undrestand the Russian hacking business and I would be very pleased if one of you brainier ones could put my mind at rest! Thanks again to all of you for the tremendous effort that you are all putting in to this fight.

davethejag.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

There is

• contentwise.org.uk available 2 years - £5.58
  contentwise.co.uk available 2 years - £5.58
  contentwise.info available 2 years - £17.98
  

That made me laugh Pete placed it in bold incase it was missed first time round cannot fault this company I left VM for Aquiss and my speeds went from -4meg to plus 6 meg and haven't seen anymore needs to refresh a website to see the content or speeds below 1meg in the evening...

---------- Post added at 15:14 ---------- Previous post was at 15:12 ----------


After 8 years loyal customer to VM have to say the other side isnt bad you just have to get a decent router and go with a decent ISP.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yep that's right.

With a view to two methods of charging;

Either (assuming UIDs leak)

1) Listing specific evidence of RIPA/Copyright violation by UID

or

2) Listing all evidence of access from a Phorm ISP allowing you to make a statistical royalty claim against BT/ Virgin/ TalkTalk on the basis of number of Phormed users as a % of their audience.

No doubt they'll publish stats to convince advertisers "Huge numbers have signed up to Webwise, as many as 0.02% of our customers are keen to sacrifice their privacy and security just to see your advertising on their monitor".

0.02% * hits * £100 per page for commercial exploitation = my holiday to The Bahamas

Pete.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi Dave

When did this happen was it the first time that the website was hacked or is it now since?

Clear tempory files and make sure the recycle bin is empty reboot and run AV again without connecting to the internet first.

This isnt a virus or trojan as such it is an HTML exploit similar to what Phorm plan to use on people no doubt to use their cookies...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Heh, just thought. They can't do this. They can't pass the cost on to their customers for one simple reason.

You know why not? Its a cracker...


I think I'm going to have to change my trousers. I'm laughing so much I'm in danger of needing to put them the washing machine.

Lets go to the pub.

:drunk:

Pete.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The Report I got is this:

Hmm shud I be worried? :shocked:

[edit] Edited IP :)
[edit] URL lengh being to long ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Many thanks for your reply Florence. I am pretty sure it was the first time that the link was posted on the forum, I have been trying to keep up to date with what has been going on and I have not clicked on any other link since. The HTML/Framer threat is dated 30th April in the AVG results. Thanks for the swift reply Florence. I will take your advice regarding a scan etc.

Kind Regards to all,

davethejag

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You might want to edit your IP in the post.;)

I don't think you need to worry about anything, it's just being tested at the moment.

(@Popper above - I don't think there is anything in here, i've checked nothing is going off the screen)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

and edit the url as the display just scrolled off the right hand side of my screen due to (i asume) the unbroken url lengh being to long.

although i didnt notice it until marks's reply so perhaps theres something hidden in there! that needs checking too.

thanks, that edit worked, and i can now see the whole page in screen again ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

VM's change of Terms and conditions has me worried now. All i am waiting for now is that god dam letter saying the Phorm Spyware system is about to be rolled out.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

its usually a good idea to * your cust***.midd bit too.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Done

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

As previously posted...
I was of the impression that you cannot have a requirement that is against the law in any contract conditions, therefore they CANNOT rely on acceptance of terms and conditions to give explicit consent.

I was also of the impression that any changes to T&Cs must be notifed IN WRITING (Not simply posted on a web page) to those that it affects.

Any clarification on this would be appreciated.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

No problems Pete, you don't have to mention the secret anony UID just the IP/Date-Time/and Pages that you have collected for your invoicing. This way keeps eveyone happy, except the end-user of course.

Another thought with your new found wealth as a hyper-parasite, you should join OIX as a partner. This will have two main benefits
1) Phormscum will be promoting your site for the unlucky Phormited user and therefore will give greater gravitational pull for your hits.
2) As well as your ContentWise income you will be able to add extra pennies from the OIX deal.

Double whammy!


It think this effect is known as 'thermal runaway' lookup laws of entropy and thermodynamics.


Any chance get a weekend trip for two on your yacht for this helpful tip?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I don't think the ISP's will be very happy with anyone making money out of the browsing habits of their customers.:dozey:

They might not like anyone demonstrating how easy it is for a 3rd party to link phorm UID to IP either.

When ContentWise goes global, if the various partners (CIX?) pooled data they would have IP, date/time, Phorm UID and URL. They could think about branching out into, say, behavioural targetted advertising.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi Dave,

I can't give you comfort words but I can at least give it you straight. Russia is run by two factions, the guberment and the mafia. Russia is quite unstable really, they have the authoritarian state terror machine who will ruthlessly surpress genuine progress towards a stable democracy and then they have a twisted form of capitalism run by gangsters, crooks and the mafia. Russia does not abide by international treaties or global laws so they have become a safe haven for cyber-criminals and malicious hackers. There is a lot of money to be made by the criminal elements in Russia by exploiting the rest of the world through the interconnected wires. They know they will never get prosecuted and so they have no incentive to stop until the Russian guberment sorts itself out and abides by international norms. (USA, FBI has managed a few high profile arrests of Russian cyber-criminals but that is unlikely to happen over here as the UK government is inept)

Kent Ertugrul the criminal entrepreneur picked Russia as a base because he knew his kind of business operations (deception/theft/trespass) would only work from the rotten core of deprived immoral like minded bandits that he likes to associate with. (Hi Stratis!).

As you have gathered from reading this forum, the UK was not the easy pushover that Kent the criminal was counting on in order to setup his despicable parasitic business. In order to find some comfort from the Russian attacks you will have to continue to read forums like this to keep abreast of events and news as it happens, pickup good technical advice, and share our siege mentality and comradery.

Good luck, keep your head down. :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Only big difference is he can get more out of his scripting without rusian hackers help in one day than phorm can in a year.

Well done