Re: Britain outside the EU
 

With potholes, dont forget all the potholes. Our roads are becoming a joke.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Very sad to see what's being allowed to happen to our seaside.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world...ac5af3d4&ei=20

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Meanwhile, in the world of facts (as opposed to holiday season Lib Dem press releases), the UK has always been - oho! - crap at maintaining bathing water quality.

While things have vastly improved since the 1980s, by 2016 we were still comfortably below the EU average, despite, err, being in the EU and subject to its regulator. Graphs a-plenty here:

https://evonews.com/life/2017/may/24...-as-excellent/

I’m sorry Andrew but you’re going to have to try a lot harder to convince me that a supra-national body fining UK organisations and then spending the proceeds in the far-flung corners of Europe is a good thing for the UK in the round. Whatever the current failings of our environmental regime, it is, as a matter of democratic principle, a matter for UK politicians who are accountable to the UK electorate.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

True, but as the EU is demanding continued fishing rights in British waters, they must like the taste? :sick:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I really don't think Andrew is trying to convince you of anything, I suspect that he knows it's a lost cause :) Your use of the extravagant vocabulary ("supra-national body", " far-flung corners of Europe") is just distraction. The essential takeaway is that before 2016 we were legally required to maintain EU water quality standards and now with our new found "democratic freedoms", we are not longer made to enforce standards and so we don't.

The ultra-sovereign dogma trotted out when anyone raises the damage leaving the EU is amusing. Before 2016, no one cared about leaving the EU:

Only 1% of Brits cared much about the EU before the 2016 Brexit vote

The con job sold to the British public was off the chart, remarkable in how so many were persuaded to vote against their best interests. Of course, we always get: "yes but ... sovereignty" wheeled out but you can't eat sovereignty or go swimming in it :)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

But you can use it to hold politicians accountable. Whether we do so or not is up to all of us. There’s nothing distracting about the phrase ‘supra-national’ - it is the very heart of the principle. The proposition was that Brexit is to blame for pollution incidents in the UK but that is obvious nonsense. As we are outside the EU it is our regulatory regime that is the sole factor at play. If our regulations are inadequate, the solution is to pester our politicians to fix it, not to abnegate responsibility in favour of a foreign bureaucracy with the power to extract money from the British economy in order to spend it on projects in Eastern Europe (or Ursula Von Der Lying’s private jet, take your pick).

Everything in the Lib Dem press release lurking behind the report in today’s ’I’ can ultimately be solved by British politicians enacting regulations with teeth, or if they won’t do so, by replacing them with ones that will. Bleating on about the ability of a foreign organisation’s willingness to swoop in and do it for us is a waste of time.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

LOL, still a bitter remainer then. ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You happy then? Guess you must be ... :dozey:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Again more deflection. I said that as part of the EU we were held to a common standard whereas now we are not. You can apply this to many sectors. Lots more double speak about "foreign bureaucracy", "extract money from the British economy", etc. The fact is for 40 years this country did very, very well from being part of a common market, yes, Thatcher's common market. Wrenching out an economy that had 40 years of free trade wiring and expecting not to lose billions is naive. Proclaiming sovereignty dogma and waving the union jack won't stump up the 40-odd billion every year or stop the decline.

You cannot complain about the Lib Dems doing what Farage & Crew did in spades in the run up to 2016. I mean he wrote the playbook. Going on about the evil EU or the miracles of blessed sovereignty won't change the historical record of the previous 40 years and the fact that no one cared about EU membership until the populist grifters turned up.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Nope. No deflection at all. I do actually know how the EU works, and EU-wide common standards are totally irrelevant here.

We have a beach pollution problem. We have the means to a solution - laws made in our parliament, by our politicians, and enforced by our regulatory bodies. That’s how the entirety of the rest of the world works. It is normal. If we do not do it, or we do not do it adequately, then it is not ‘because of Brexit’, it is because those who lead us have failed us. And we have a remedy for that at the ballot box.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That statement, right there, proves you know nothing of the workings of the EU.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The article clearly says that the action against the UK for water quality was being closed "because of Brexit – even though wastewater spills “remain too elevated”.

---------- Post added at 00:58 ---------- Previous post was at 00:32 ----------

The article is not a Lib Dem press release. Agree with the latter part of your sentence though. :D

Yes, water quality vastly improved whilst we were in the EU.

I don't think anyone on this Forum has ever succeeded in convincing anyone to change their mind on issues like Brexit, but congratulations to anyone who has done so! The use of phrases like 'far-flung corners of Europe' rather than 'Europe' should act as a red flag to anyone who is thinking of trying to do so in this case.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I thought there might be a limit to your naïveté, but apparently not.

https://www.libdems.org.uk/press/rel...it-for-purpose

As someone who has been both a journalist and a press officer, please take my word for it: this story began with that 17 December press release. It is most likely that the Lib Dem media team had the complainant, Robert Latimer, already lined up for any newspaper that contacted them for follow-up information. That is exactly how this works, and most especially that’s how it works at times of year when press officers know papers are short of content and will gratefully received whatever they’re given.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Thanks for sharing the Lib Dem press release of 17th December.

The story evidently began a day earlier on 16th December with the press release from the OEP. Criticising a political party for responding to a press release lacks logic - they're expected to have an opinion on issues like this one.

https://www.theoep.org.uk/news/oep-f...tory-oversight

I'm sure that any journalists looking to write on the story would have their quotable contacts lined up to approach and that political parties would facilitate this if it advanced their agendas.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That is correct, it wasn't a doorstep issue until Dave called the referendum

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

As reported by Onya Doorstep of UpNorth news? :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No as discussed on here infinitum and tbh I have no real interest in revisiting except to say from memory less than 1% of voters considered the EU an important issue when Dave scrapped into power on 2010 and it still wasn't resonating right up until he called the referendum, he turned a party issue into this :Yikes:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Sorry Daddy. It was just a playful reference to the Christmas Wallace and Gromit which featured Onya Doorstep. :angel:
Well worth a watch imho.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

On a show hosted by Anton Dec IIRC :D

Sorry, carry on, I just had to mention that as I found it quite funny.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

:LOL: Also:

Ok, I'm done.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Things are going so well during this “Golden Age for Britain”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...XGZssqYkbvGIA#

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Well I haven’t noticed any difference to my life.

But Starmer’s storm troopers will ensure you suffer.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

That's up there with, "I don't know anyone who has ever been polled!" :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Here's the damage in a single take:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...6&d=1736089924

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The CEO of Waterstones, James Daunt, today highlighted the main problem the successful British retailer faces.
https://www.ft.com/content/b719ade0-...e-8b5c5422c6a2

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I see that Andy Wigmore and Arron Banks have failed to get visas to the USA. Can't think why, comrades! ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Who :confused:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Leave.EU backer, author of "The Bad Boys of Brexit", with a fondness after the invasion of the Crimea for meetings at the Russian embassy.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/29/w...ron-banks.html

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Oh, dear, you really are indoctrinated, aren’t you? You must learn to get over the people’s decision because it will make you ill.

Badenoch has already admitted that the Conservative government did nothing to tap into the benefits that could be exploited under Brexit. That ‘bonfire of regulations’ never got done, did it? That would have been a start. Now we are stuck with those EU rules for another 4.5 years because Starmer’s government will do nothing.

The two main parties never learn, do they? Reform UK is becoming more popular with both Conservative and Labour voters because the ‘natural parties of government’ are too arrogant and refuse to engage sensibly on public concerns. But just to be sure, they try to belittle Reform UK and try to load the narrative to Reform’s disadvantage. This is a mistake, because Reform UK understand and are speaking the language of normal patriotic people who love Britain.

The two main parties are due another nasty ‘surprise’ at the next General Election. And predictably, the BBC will be predicting on election day that it’s a close call between Labour and the Conservatives. And again, like on the Brexit vote, they will have got it wrong and call it ‘a major upset and complete surprise’ or words to that effect.

It’s like all the UK’s establishment figures have a complete mental block on these matters. Labour is lost, possibly forever, and the Conservatives will have a huge battle on their hands in defending as many of their seats as they can. Reform UK is now in with a chance, thanks to the collective blind spot which is so clear to the rest of us.

Make the most of this appalling government while you can. Britain will rise from the ashes of their failure.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think what makes most people ill is trade with EU countries is down 27% without it being taken up elsewhere. Also how farmers’ fields have had fruit and veg go to rot because the annual EU migrants haven’t been able to over to pick it.

Also the fact no returns-policy was set in place in Boris’ “oven ready deal” for migrants which makes it harder for us to send back the failed asylum seekers.

How about the NHS which is still waiting for it’s £350m a week?

Perhaps too is the fact people like my daughter who graduates from Uni this year has her international options massively limited and makes it harder for her to further study or work abroad.

Or maybe what makes us ill is the fact so many of those who voted Leave refuse to admit they were sold a lie and have not experienced one single legitimate benefit of Brexit.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

JFYI, In the 6 years between 2016 & 2022, the NHS budget increased by roughly £35 Billion, which is about £675m per week.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So no sign of the promised extra £350m that should have kicked in from 2020.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Well it appears that between 2020 & 2021, it increased by over £900m per week.
However a large part of that has basically been classed as "extra spending due to covid".

Excluding covid, its also incrceased by £440m per week between 2022 & 2023 (so more than the fabled 350).

The only thing you can factually state is its increased by more £350m per week since 2016 (or indeed, since 2020).
Its impossible to define "extra" as there is no way to know what the budget would have been, its simply increased.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...chmentid=31263

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I mean, you’re obviously deranged.

I can’t wait until 2029, when the country is totally in the shitter, and you’ve got no one to blame but your own team. No doubt ideological gymnastics worthy of Olga Corbett will ensue.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Yet there’s still nothing to suggest any of that spending was due to Brexit. Such relative increases in spending have historically been nothing new:

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/what-has-brexi...t-for-the-nhs/

---------- Post added at 06:40 ---------- Previous post was at 06:39 ----------

Seriously, grow up.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

There isnt anything to prove it isnt either, no one can definitivly say one way or the other.
As I said, the only solid fact is that its increased by more, since either 2016 or 2020.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So not out of the bounds of possibility that such increases were planned with the intention of saying/BS’ing that the extra money is the £350m from Brexit?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The Brexit Bus is not a hill to die on. The consequences of Brexit dwarf this figure.

If you want someone who has done a lot of detailed research in this area, follow Chris Grey: https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Of course its possible, but its also just unprovable speculation.

---------- Post added at 21:28 ---------- Previous post was at 21:28 ----------

Apparently the IMF thinks we are going to do better in the next 2 years.

It also confirms we didnt do so well last year.
All part of this article about the possible effects of Trump and his tariff plans : https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cglyynp44g4o

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Unprovable yes but given the pro-Leave’s propensity for lying (led by their bullshitter-in-chief Bullshitting Boris) I think there’s more chance of it being all part of their ruse than not.

I mean, the other points I made being overlooked notwithstanding

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Remainers were not exactly totally wedded to the truth! Pot, kettle, black....

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Oooo examples please?

Shall we compare?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We’ve been there, done that and got the tea shirt. Why do we have to go around in endless circles on this subject?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Forgive me but I don’t recall a like-for-like comparison of bullshit between Leave and Remain on CF before, are you sure we did that?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

2016 wants to have a few words with you. The words are “get the F over it” it’s been nearly a decade. It’s boring.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I cant believe I'm starting to agree with Pierre. :erm:

The vote was 8.5 years ago - this is just going in circles again.
Seems time to move on unless there is something new or useful to add.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Eventually, everybody does……….

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Yeah the vote was 8 years ago but nobody knew what would the actual outcomes would be until several years later when bullshitting Boris gave us a crap deal. None of the promised benefits materialised (“Food, clothing and footwear will be cheaper” etc) yet plenty of the negatives are with us.

2 people I know had businesses that exported specifically to Europe, both closed down due to the extra costs and paperwork as a result of Brexit.

My daughter graduates this year and an ideal large multinational company has already provisionally offered her a job in the autumn but have made it clear her options for progression are limited due to Brexit. There will be other jobs out there naturally but this would have been ideal as a long term career.

Now she views it as just a stop-gap.

So yeah, I’m pretty pissed off with Brexit.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Yeah, I'm getting pretty pissed off with the whole "everyone who voted leave fell for lies" nonsense.

These days it seems every post you make is either a rant on Brexit, or Boris, or the last government (often more than one of them).
Its starting to get very [very] tiresome. We know what you think of them by now, it doesnt need to be repeated day in day out. Give it rest.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

This should be interesting. I'm with the UK on this.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknew...486ab5b9&ei=15

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

UK in a Changing Europe promotes rigorous, high‑quality and independent research into the complex and ever changing relationship between the UK and the EU. It is funded by the UK Government's Economic and Social Research Council and based at King’s College London.

It has published report into the UK post Brexit.

One of the key findings is the likely 10% reduction in investment, discussed in this extract.
https://media.ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-conte...m-to-reset.pdf

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No surprise here:

Number of Britons who think Brexit was right decision hits new low, new YouGov poll shows

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No surprise but I don't see us rejoining in the next Parliament.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

They might not want us back :)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

They need us more than we need them. ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Didnt they say as much at one point ?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

i think they did, we were a pain in the arse especially with UKIP in the parliament

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Agreed, I am guessing in 5 or 6 years time ...

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

When Farage is PM :shocked: i don't think so.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Happy Brexit day :woot::woot::woot:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Fantastic that we've taken back control of our borders with immigration at an all-time low, reduced NHS waiting lists and have signed free trade deals signed with the USA and India. :clap:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Brexit hit their economy too. If we wanted to then they would have us I think.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Especially as we will almost definitely be a net contributor.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

And here’s where Dan Hannon forecast we’d be by this time.

https://www.reaction.life/p/britain-looks-like-brexit

A few selections…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I love my local 3D printing factory.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I do find it strangely amusing, and worrying, of those that seem to genuinely get off when the country isn’t doing so well and then they try to tie it into Brexit.

I mean, I would say try porn, but if you can get off on Dan Hannon’s failed Brexit predictions then you have a more fertile imagination Han me. Just remember to delete your browsing history.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

None exists & never will for the leavers. :rolleyes:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

BoJo's deal as we know was more half-baked than oven-ready. Good to see it being improved. Hope the pro-Brexit doom-mongers are happy but suspect that's an impossible ask.
https://news.sky.com/story/politics-...isons-12593360

And good news for NI
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cx2jkz3d0drt

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If they've eased the checks on our goods going into the EU that would be a pretty big boost. Not sure if that's part of the agreement yet

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Lefty! :D He makes Laura K look like Corbyn.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Full details of the deal: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czdy3r6q9mgo

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Typical of the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation to choose a fishing boat and not a plate of sausages. This would have illustrated the far bigger benefits of enabling the UK to resume EU sales of raw burgers and sausages, but I guess it does not tick the Corporation's Farage-fawning tendencies.

Still, a good deal is a good deal whatever picture the BBC chooses to use.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Well I suppose it'll now be sausage and chips instead of fish and chips from now on.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

From the bottom of the barrel ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If only! Goes back to when Farage was on Question Time more than Dimbleby!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Are we taking about the same Nick Robinson at the BBC who was privately educated, studied PPE at Oxford, was chair of the Oxford University Conservative Association, founder of the Macclesfield Young Conservatives and national chair of the Young Conservatives?

Not a particularly left wing background to be fair!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Indeed. :D

Anyone to the left of Nick Candy or Richard Tice seems to tick the "lefty" box for Seph. Unfortunately, that's quite a big field of runners so most media organisations save GB News and the Telegraph become lefty-dominated using this methodology.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

This video made me laugh - it's looking at the predictions Lord Hannan made in June 2016 about how life in the sunlit uplands of post Brexit Britain would be in 9 years time - so about now.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Cant say I have heard of Lord Hannan, but the very first prediction told me he was clearly in his own fantasy world.
We were never going to be celebrating our own "Indepenence Day" with fireworks etc.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Telegraph belatedly telling it straight on Brexit
https://archive.ph/JUwbC#selection-3161.0-3185.72

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Good luck with re-joining

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Too soon for that now but give it 10 years or so.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think it was 52% of those who voted, not 52% of those who could vote, which seems to be what this poll is quoting.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The poll was conducted for a pro-EU lobby group called More In Common. Phrasing of questions in polls like this is crucial, as is controlling for likelihood to vote. As Paul has noted, there is a big difference between an entire electorate, and the sub-group of electors who are likely to use their vote.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Yes,

Looking forward to joining the United European Islamic Caliphate in ten years or so.

sharia or bust!

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Bring on using Euro and more open borders than the one we don't have now. I blame John Major and his cronies.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Leaving the EU has meant a switch in largely Christian immigrants from the EU to largely Muslim immigrants from Middle East and North Africa.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Of course, all the European Countries aren't awash with them are they.

Or do you only read news about the UK?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Do you have evidence to support this statement ?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Well, under the Dublin Regulation, we could have returned them…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

How many did we return before Brexit?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I understand the Brexit-led immigration is such that they're hoping to build a mosque in Wokingham but the first attempt failed due to parking concerns. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd7v07yennpo.amp

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

A couple of hundred a year, but that’s because, when we were part of the Dublin Agreement, there were very few boat people crossing the Channel - it was a deterrent.

After we left it, though…

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u...n-small-boats/

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...7&d=1754588949

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1754589003