Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We left becasue more people voted to leave than remain.
I seriously doubt they all had the same reason for doing so.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Spot on! I was being sarcastic in response to this
Of course, jonbxx was able to correct this statement.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You said

implying there was "our way of thinking" and a homogeneous "their way of thinking".

And as for "we look like them", your subtext is fairly obvious…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Bad news for British exporters to Canada. And bad news for Badenoch's reputation.
https://news.sky.com/story/canada-co...dian%20farmers.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No comment, after all it is the Express.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1709911137

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Badenoch has form and her endorsement of anything is never a good thing.

This B'rexpress front page certainly had me lol-ing so a good way to end the week. Thank you, Pip. :D

You can't put lipstick on a pig whether you're May, Farage, BoJo, Truss, Sunak or even Starmer. The decline in productivity, exchange rate, recession and record high taxation speak louder than Mad Bad. ;)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I guess it is the cult members go to "news" source.

BTW, I have these wonderful soverinty beans I can sell you? :)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

You're welcome Andrew. Here's something else for you, posted by A.F. Neil.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

A Twitter comment on it made me laugh as much as the article itself. :D
https://twitter.com/MrDarcyDog/statu...64196825035105

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

:D :D :D :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Bears and honey.
https://www.ft.com/content/f027f3ec-...4-89c4ba13879f

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Remember the good old days when we had an EU-inherited trade deal with Canada? This is no 1st April joke.
https://www.ft.com/content/51f6afd3-...1-354e089d3081

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Sad to see some electors faith in politicians wiped out due to broken Brexit promises. Non-participation in elections weakens democracy.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c066r811z7ro

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Hmmm

An app, an app that just replaces logs. They’ve always had to record their catch. To move it from paper to an app, is nothing to do with Brexit, it would’ve happened anyway.

The only “new” system I am aware of is iVMS for the U12m inshore boats. All the larger boats have had VMS and AIS for a decade. Again nothing to with Brexit, if we were still in the EU iVMS would have been rolled out.

A Bit vague, but I’m sure they were inspected before

A measure introduced and then removed.

The issue here is, the fisherman thought Brexit would = increased quota, and it didn’t. The other stuff is nothing to do with Brexit.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

A good point on quotas not being increased.

Exporting to Europe has certainly resulted in more paperwork.

I don't know the detail of their other claims but doubt they would make them up.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No of course you don't know the detail of their other claims because you're not a Cornish fisherman anymore than Pierre is but if brexit taught us anything it's we're sick of experts and know better than them, besides we keep being told everyone knew what they voted for do it's hard to have much sympathy for them

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

New York Museum of modern art. Exbibit


BREXIT

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I thought it'd be a steaming turd but that'll do, not even got any fish in it :(

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Clever how they collected stuff you can only get if you’re in the EU oh hang on a minute …

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Let's hope Sir Steir can get a better deal for us here. It would, um, land well with farmers. ;)
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2657424.html

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Piss off Liz, regulations were slashed on day one, it's what we voted for and it was the easiest deal in history because we held all the cards

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Brexit is not an experiment. It was a simple directive by a majority of the U.K. population.

Government’s job is make it work to the best of our interests, not all preferable outcomes will be possible.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

A "majority of the U.K. population" would have been 23,250,001*, not 17,410,742…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1733254176

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resu...hip_referendum

*voting population of the U.K.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

i see the pain of losing is still strong

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

The majority who voted, as you well know. :rolleyes:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Unless of course a government is elected with a mandate otherwise.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Well no one will know what the 13,000,000 odd would have voted for.


They have ZERO complaints as they didn't bother to vote.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not what he said/typed…

I can only respond to what people post, not what others think they may have meant to post (as I’m not telepathic).

I even mitigated it by only including the voting population, not the actual population.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Since I dont believe you're that stupid, I know full well that you knew exactly what was meant, as I'm quite sure did everyone else.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

you have to be in it to win it

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

But we do know how people think today:

In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to vote to leave the European Union?

The EU transition period ended on Dec 31st 2020. Since then, do you think Brexit has gone well or badly?

Large majority of people think it has gone badly and we were wrong to leave.

The good thing about democracies is that they can change their minds. The evidence is compelling (£40 billion loss per year, etc.) and with the upcoming Trump Presidency, the UK will need to choose which bloc it should be aligning with. The answer is clear ...

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

This is a false dichotomy.

As an independent trading nation we are free to align wherever is in our interests and there’s no reason why we should be forced to pick one trading zone over another.

Pointing to Trump as a reason not to pursue good trading relations with the USA is also to fundamentally misunderstand the deep strategic and cultural ties between the UK and the USA that are on an entirely different level than anything a president who will be on the scene for no more than the next 4 years can undo.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

of course, we live in a democracy

---------- Post added at 12:42 ---------- Previous post was at 12:41 ----------

You think I meant Under 5's? or something?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Age or iQ?

just asking for a friend

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I disagree. Being a small nation when compared to these trading blocs, we need to ensure our strategic and economic interests are aligned with the trading partner that best meets our needs and best fits our values.

A trade deal with a US on a Trump trajectory that diverges from the need to trade efficiently with the EU requires a clear choice of alignment.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Can you illustrate why you believe these two things are fundamentally incompatible?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

One example is if a US trade mandates changes in food standards e.g. hormone-treated beef, etc. then these could compromise our food exports to the EU.

To my mind if you seek to harmonise regulatory alignment with the EU to reduce the ongoing costs of Brexit then you would find it very difficult to make changes due to US trade demands and still square the circle.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

No - your assumptions are based on a mindset that’s still within the EU, and we are not. When we were in, then we were obliged to harmonise regulations such that they affected every business whether it was an exporter or not. But we are not in the EU any more. When you sign a trade deal with another country or bloc external to your own, you do so either on the basis of mutual recognition of standards, or else you accept that goods exported to that bloc must meet their standards. You do not, however, have to align your non-exported goods and services with that bloc. So it is entirely possible to sign trade deals in parallel with both the USA and the EU, even for exactly the same goods and services. It is then up to exporters to decide who to sell to.

And this is why your assumptions are faulty - you’re not thinking in terms of trade deals, you’re thinking in terms of realignment in such a way as to make the UK a semi-detached member of the single market, along some variation of thr EEA model perhaps.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It's unlikely the US would demand we only sell hormone treated beef, they may demand we buy it though.

in any event let's take that argument at face value.

Do you think it is beyond the capability of our farmers to produce beef for both markets?

And it may be that the US market for hormone-treated beef eclipses the EU market, so we may not care if it compromised our EU exports.

Many positions can be held.

Markets decide.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It's true, we don't have to follow their regulations, that's why our bottle caps aren't tethered to the bottle like their's...

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

if it was in the shops and labled as hormone treated and cheap i think many would be interested in buying it ,it's not as if we live off beef, it's a luxury for many.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

In many cases ours aren’t, because we’re not in the EU, and the directive that banned them from 3 July 2024 in all EU member states doesn’t apply here - rather neatly making my point, thank you ;)

Of course many manufacturers will use the EU approved caps anyway out of simple efficiency, but because we’re not in the EU, if there is sufficient customer resistance to them, they’re free not to.

I happen to think in this case they’re a pretty good idea.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think that your assumptions are faulty - based on a mindset derived from dogma. You assume that our current position is permanent. It is not, it depends on the needs of the economy and the desires of the electorate in future elections.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Now you’re sidestepping the question.

Whether or not there’s a move to rejoin the EU in future, that is not in view now. All that is on the table for the next 5-10 years is the question of improved trading relations with the EU and the US. Given that we are not going to rejoin the EU during this parliament (or the next - convince me otherwise) then the question is, what form of trade deal could we make with either EU or the US that would necessarily involve us pivoting away from one of them?

The only form of trade deal that would necessitate that would be a wholly self-defeating regulatory alignment that committed us to adopting regulations on domestic production even on goods that were not for export, and/or restricted us from importing into our market goods that would be banned in another. And the only way that state of affairs could possibly come about would be if we were looking to sign up for some version of association with the EEA that most likely dropped us back in a customs union with the EU.

Sorry but you still haven’t come close to defending your assertion that we have a choice to make, per your earlier statement that a “trade deal with a US on a Trump trajectory that diverges from the need to trade efficiently with the EU requires a clear choice of alignment.”

No trade deal requires such a choice to be made - only negotiations for membership of the EEA would cause that. And it is not necessary to join the EEA in order to work out a sensible trading arrangement with the EU. Which is just as well, because that’s clearly not on the table.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

If the UK wants to mitigate the GDP impact of Brexit, it needs to harmonise, to the best it can, the trade alignment with the EU. Doing this will preclude certain concessions that may be asked by a new US trade deal e.g. food standards. To pretend a ¨cake and eat approach" is possible is disingenuous. Here's a Trump aide saying the same thing:

Britain should align with US on trade rather than pursue EU, says Trump aide

You are also ignoring the facts .. the reality where, as time passes, people who wanting Brexit (for what ever reason) move on and are replaced by those who were disenfranchised in 2016 and have desires to align with the EU (and not the US).

The polling slowly moves away from the promised sunlit uplands and towards pragmatic reality. The promises have not been delivered but the harm has. People will start to ask why are we poorer and, after the trauma of 2016 fades, will demand a return to normality?

Dogma does not drive change in the end .. reality & pragmatism does. As the saying goes: ¨Its the economy, stupid¨*

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_the_economy,_stupid#:~:text=%22The%20econom y%2C%20stupid%22%20is,Bush

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Endlessly repeating the same flawed argument doesn’t improve it. ;)

You still haven’t demonstrated why the UK would have to adopt regulations affecting domestic production and consumption in order to forge a better trade treaty with the EU. The only form of trade deal that would impose some or all of the EU rule book on British producers making goods that aren’t destined for the EU, or British consumers buying goods made anywhere except the EU, would be an EEA/customs union type agreement. And that isn’t a trade deal, it’s membership of an EU-adjacent supranational organisation that isn’t on the table. And such membership wouldn’t just preclude trade deals with the US, it would kill all of them, for the same reasons we weren’t able to make deals with anyone else in the world while we were in the EU.

Whether people have changed their minds about Brexit is neither here nor there at this point. Keir Starmer has already called it, correctly in my view. When pursuing trade deals, it is not necessary to make an either-or choice between the US and the EU. Those that do so are, typically, confusing the US with Donald Trump. Trump may be awful, but he isn’t America, and he won’t be around after 2028, assuming he even lasts that long.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Dream on, I still want to remain outside of the corrupted EU & I’m not poorer, speak for yourself.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Have to agree being outside it has done me no harm , saying that had no problem with common market. It's the likes of Hungary * telling the UK what it can or cannot do. Perhaps via its courts etc. Don't forget UK would have no hope of rejoining with joining the euro, in my view :p: * or any other European country can be placed here.:dozey:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Won't be easy for Sir Kier.

https://www.ft.com/content/327d7bd9-...a-68fe89b1c105

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'd happily throw that on the negotiating table in return for a proper crack down on small boats.


I'd welcome any Poles back with open arms, rather than a boat load of jihadi islamists.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

‘No cherry-picking’ insists the EU, as it attempts to pick the cherry that is UK territorial waters and exclusive economic zone. Yet any trade deal is cherry picking by its very definition, as it attempts to give each side something it really wants while avoiding stuff it really doesn’t.

The europhiliac parts of our news media are, I see, still gleefully reporting what the EU wants and demands and expects as if they’re going to be the only ones around the table when it comes time to negotiate. That item is so tilted towards the assumption that the almighty EU must get what it wants it might as well have been written by the greatest Europhile of the lot, Katya Adler of the BBC. Gosh, I almost miss her breathless dispatches from Brussels, for the sheer artistry of her regime apologetics.

The UK is not going to join the EEA, it is not going to rejoin the customs union and it is not going to submit to free movement. Even discussing any one of those things would be politically explosive and would dominate the debate all the way to the Great Labour Wipeout of 2029. They might find some way of oiling the wheels and improving the deal but until the EU stops trying to use the UK as a way of threatening any other member state that might think about leaving, and starts thinking in terms of making a decent, workable trade deal with an important third party, nothing very much is going to change.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Cherry picking is OK when the UK is the destination of those who claim to be fleeing war torn zones.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

At some point - and it won’t be 2029 - someone will credibly float rejoining. The question then is whether it hits a critical mass to become politically palatable by the later end of the 2030s by which time the last referendum will have been almost 25 years earlier.

None of this tinkering round the edges is going to provide a palatable outcome for anyone in the interim.

Leaving was very much a niche political position only 10 years before the referendum. So things can move (relatively) fast.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not sure what the relevance of that comment is, as the refugees/asylum seekers aren’t EU citizens…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I agree. Whilst polling still favours rejoining the EU last time I saw the polls, it's too divisive an issue for any mainstream party to advocate for at the next election.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Eventually the population will tire of discussing how we “reset” our relationship with the EU - as we speak those conversations are now almost 8 years old. So we either end up out under terms the EU permit or in.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Who knows what the EU, or the wider Geo-political landscape, will look like in the late 2030’s

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Despite the predictions on here of countries like the Netherlands and Ireland leaving, the EU has proved pretty resilient. I don't see its membership changing much over the next ten years, maybe a couple of small additions. As for the geopolitical landscape, that's somewhat harder to tie down than a trade deal with the US.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

you didn't see the UK leaving but we did:)

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

It was even Stevens. Not sure who 'we' is but if there's royalty in the house, mine's a pint! :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

We British

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Maybe no change, or little change, in membership. I was thinking more about who call the tune. Germany and France in decline, Eastern European countries getting stronger, refuting mass migration and the issues that brings.

Who knows what it will all look like?

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

A bureaucratic nightmare like it is now

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I'd agree with this thinking. The demographics make rejoining inevitable - see: https://yorkshirebylines.co.uk/news/...hics-of-rejoin.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Reminds me of the Disco Stu sketch in The Simpsons.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So true:D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I think the EU is still accepting Klingons if any of you want to live there

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I fear your dislike for our country's European allies may blind you to the facts. The UK is the 77th least bureaucratic country in the World, well behind many EU countries like Ireland, Spain, Netherlands, Belgium, Italy and France.
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...oogle_vignette

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

1 i was referring to the EU as a bureaucratic nightmare
2 i have no dislike of Europeans the mother of my children is half Italian and moved here from Denmark just before i met her

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Surely you are just confirming that the EU is a bureaucratic nightmare:D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

proving remain didn't know what they where voting for

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Oh, the irony…

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not sure you've understood the rankings. We're only 77th best. Most EU countries are far less bureaucratic than us. That includes Spain, Portugal, France, Italy, etc.

---------- Post added at 18:20 ---------- Previous post was at 18:17 ----------

One born every minute, bless 'em. :batty:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Misread the quote , must be good being so god like:dozey: still I am quite happy with all my lights on and the heating at a constant 22 c 24 hrs a day so I take batty over sad any time. :shocked:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

In other news the amazing new CPTPP trade deal is about to begin. Can’t wait for this bro meet or exceed the deal we had the EU:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b2664101.html

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Have you noticed how all the old Vote Leave gang have gone oh so quiet on how well our new "Global Britain" trade deals have done :)

What is very funny is that even Chatham House, a think tank funded by the UK Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, says:

https://www.chathamhouse.org/2023/03...ptpp-strategic

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Welcome to Bullshitting Boris’ Golden Age for Britain.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

This'll cheer you poor little darlings up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg3sEE18WsE

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Aw Russ, Boris is yesterday, the Cons are yesterday, the EU is yesterday.
All our troubles are so far away.
Now that Labour are here to stay....

....you're not gonna bang the old "it was them mammy; it's all their fault :bigcry:" for the next 5 years are you?

Strewth.
:xmas:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not at all. I blame whoever put us in this position, sorry it wasn’t Labour. Do keep up.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Hahaaaaaaar! It gives me great pleasure to see you paraphrasing me. Cut deep did it Russ? :D

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Not really, I said it to you several months ago to which you replied. Impressed that I live in your head rent free

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I love a good bromance it's so heart-warming:hugs:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

:zzz:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Or, for a slightly more balanced piece of work that isn’t an obvious lobbying position ahead of next year’s UK-EU negotiations, here’s a piece from the House of Commons Library charting the UK’s total EU and non-EU exports, adjusted for inflation.

https://researchbriefings.files.parl...1/CBP-7851.pdf

It includes this useful cautionary note on pages 10-11:

Graph from page 10:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1734535555

It’s quite clear that the UK’s export fortunes to the EU and elsewhere, while not moving in lockstep, generally go hand in hand. Almost as if things other than Brexit affect it all. Funny that.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Useful report from the OBR on the subject: https://obr.uk/box/the-latest-eviden...t-on-uk-trade/

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2024/12/2.jpg

As always, a case of damage limitation with no sunlit uplands.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

:tu:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

:tu:

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Pretty sure the Telegraph is just trolling it’s readers now…

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...-relationship/

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

I would rather shit in my hands and clap than become part of yankland

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

Clickbait, obvs. Once you price that in, this could have been an interesting and slightly lighthearted piece of fluff of the sort papers fill their pages with at times of year when not a lot is happening, but this is just dreary, negative dross. It’s entirely possible to make an entertaining (if ultimately futile) argument for accession based on common history, legal principles and values. It’s just a pity the Telegraph newsroom is such a dull, pessimistic, contrarian place that such a feat was apparently beyond them.

Re: Britain outside the EU
 

So much better to be levelled down to a 4th rate , socialist, sewage infested, backwater.