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heero_yuy 25-09-2020 10:26
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Quote from The Sun: A NEW “game-changing” coronavirus swab test could tell if you have the bug within 15 minutes.

Developed by British scientists, the £1.50 tests works on saliva or blood and is able to detect particles of the coronavirus.

Project leader Stephen Bustin, Professor of molecular medicine at Anglia Ruskin University, is a leading expert in quantitative polymerase chain reaction (qPCR).

He said the throat and nose swab could give a "robust and reliable" response on whether a patient has the virus.

Prof Bustin said: "The test works on nucleic acid, so any biological sample will do. SARS is usually detected in nose or throat swabs.

"So that is what we have used for its validation. But it also works with saliva samples and would work with blood - although blood is not used for Covid testing."
A simple saliva test with results in 20 minutes, cheap and (so far) is 100% reliable.

Definitely a game changer.

Taf 25-09-2020 15:53
Re: Coronavirus
 
Lockdown for our city from Sunday evening.

And they sneaked out a new rule that has not yet appeared on websites "All places that sell alcohol have to cease at 10pm". That includes shops and supermarkets.

denphone 25-09-2020 16:06
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36051428)
Lockdown for our city from Sunday evening.

And they sneaked out a new rule that has not yet appeared on websites "All places that sell alcohol have to cease at 10pm". That includes shops and supermarkets.
One third of the country now under lockdown with no doubt more to follow.

Mad Max 25-09-2020 16:41
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36051430)
One third of the country now under lockdown with no doubt more to follow.
Madness imo.

1andrew1 25-09-2020 16:58
Re: Coronavirus
 
Bosch has just launched a reliable test that takes 39 minutes.
Quote:
The world’s fastest PCR test for SARS-CoV-2
Rapid test is particularly suited to decentralized use in mobile test centers.
Bosch CEO Dr. Volkmar Denner: “We can put people’s minds at ease even more quickly.”
Bosch test has a sensitivity of 98 percent and a specificity of 100 percent.
Simultaneous testing of five people with one test cartridge will also be possible as of early October.
Bosch is working to further reduce time to result.
https://www.bosch-presse.de/presspor...es-219392.html

Mad Max 25-09-2020 17:01
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36051433)
Bosch has just launched a reliable test that takes 39 minutes.


https://www.bosch-presse.de/presspor...es-219392.html
That could be a real game-changer.

1andrew1 25-09-2020 17:24
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36051434)
That could be a real game-changer.
It sounds really good. It uses the most accurate method of testing for the presence of coronavirus, polymerase chain reaction technology.
Its test has a sensitivity of 98% (ie the ability to avoid false negatives) and a specificity of 100%( ie the ability to avoid false positives).

papa smurf 25-09-2020 18:14
Re: Coronavirus
 
ooh another game changer.

jfman 25-09-2020 18:31
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36051443)
ooh another game changer.
I don't often àgree with papa... But...

RichardCoulter 25-09-2020 19:03
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenMcr (Post 36051361)
It's generally for any device that's 5 years old or newer as it needed active development from Apple and Google to add in the tracking mechanism.

---------- Post added at 14:08 ---------- Previous post was at 13:48 ----------

Realised I should have said devices with an OS 5 years old or newer!

For Android it's on Android 6 and above with the Play Store installed
For iOS it's iOS 13.5 or newer - so that's on the iPhone 6S or later
I'm on Android 7 (Kernel) and it says it's not compatible with my device :confused:

Carth 25-09-2020 19:10
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36051432)
Madness imo.
Agree, it's all madness now, fed up with all the crap . . :(

Pierre 25-09-2020 19:24
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36051443)
ooh another game changer.
Yeah, bullshi.....I mean moonshot.

BenMcr 25-09-2020 22:38
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36051454)
I'm on Android 7 (Kernel) and it says it's not compatible with my device :confused:
No idea on that. The requirements come straight from Google

https://support.google.com/android/a...88358?hl=en-GB

1andrew1 26-09-2020 00:00
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Study suggests few Americans have Covid-19 antibodies
Survey indicates vast majority may not have an immune response despite high infection numbers
Fewer than 10 per cent of Americans have antibodies that could protect them from developing Covid-19, according to the first nationally representative survey that shows the vast majority still have not developed an immune response to the virus.

The serological survey, published in the medical journal The Lancet on Friday, also found that black and Hispanic communities had two to four times higher rates of antibodies to Sars-Cov-2, the virus that causes Covid-19, after they were hit harder by outbreaks earlier this year.

Julie Parsonnet, a professor of medicine at Stanford University and author of the study, said vulnerable populations would need to be protected until an effective vaccine is approved...

The study, conducted in July, comes as US public health leaders are pushing back against an argument from some allies of President Donald Trump that certain communities could be near herd immunity, the point at which a virus has difficulty spreading because so many people are immune.
https://www.ft.com/content/99c23624-...8-eef341464588

Paul 26-09-2020 01:47
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36051432)
Madness imo.
Paranoia wins again.

Im constantly having to follow ridiculous & inconsistant rules for a virus no one I know has ever seen evidence of.

Between myself, and my family (several of who work in schools, so know a lot of people) and other contacts, we know a fair portion of our town and surrounding area. Plus we have a couple of local FB groups Im a member of.

Do you know how many cases of CV19 we know of ?
Zero, not a single one.

No one I know, or anyone they know, no one in any of our groups.

I had to visit the dentist the other week, and answer all the contact questions about do you have, know of ... blah.
I asked them how many cases they know of .... yep, you guessed it, Zero.

So if you wonder why large parts of the public are starting to get pissed off, you know why.
Im constantly following stupid rules to fight something that may as well be on another planet.

nomadking 26-09-2020 02:28
Re: Coronavirus
 
A lot of people are asymptomatic and aren't aware that they've had it. That is how it was able to spread unnoticed.
Doesn't that show that the social distancing, lockdowns, closing of events/venues has to some extent been successful?

Pierre 26-09-2020 09:06
Re: Coronavirus
 
Vitamin D helps fight and avoid infection

http://news.sky.com/story/coronaviru...-find-12081132

But we knew that over 4 months ago, so why hasn’t it been publicised more?

https://youtu.be/GFKuE_1cR-M

---------- Post added at 09:06 ---------- Previous post was at 08:56 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36051488)
Paranoia wins again.

Im constantly having to follow ridiculous & inconsistant rules for a virus no one I know has ever seen evidence of.

Between myself, and my family (several of who work in schools, so know a lot of people) and other contacts, we know a fair portion of our town and surrounding area. Plus we have a couple of local FB groups Im a member of.

Do you know how many cases of CV19 we know of ?
Zero, not a single one.

No one I know, or anyone they know, no one in any of our groups.

I had to visit the dentist the other week, and answer all the contact questions about do you have, know of ... blah.
I asked them how many cases they know of .... yep, you guessed it, Zero.

So if you wonder why large parts of the public are starting to get pissed off, you know why.
Im constantly following stupid rules to fight something that may as well be on another planet.
I know of only two people that have had it, and they caught it in a lift full of Chinese tourists in Belgium. The both had a dry cough & sore chest. Symptoms lasted a few days and both were fine. I know of no one in my family, friend, work or extended circle that has had it or heard of anyone who has had it, apart from those two.

I’m not denying it’s existence, 40 odd thousand people have died, but I think the country is going mad.

As I’ve always maintained, shield the vulnerable, everybody else get on with life.

Hugh 26-09-2020 10:33
Re: Coronavirus
 
On that note...

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....17.20196436v1
Quote:
Comparison of COVID-19 outcomes among shielded and non-shielded populations: A general population cohort study of 1.3 million

Conclusions: Shielding has not been effective at preventing deaths in those with highest risk. To be effective as a population strategy, shielding criteria would need to be widely expanded to include other criteria, such as the elderly.

1andrew1 26-09-2020 11:54
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36051499)
I guess political parties will always consider the demographics of their voters. For example, banning over 60s from shops, restaurants and pubs might medical but not electoral sense.

Hugh 26-09-2020 12:41
Re: Coronavirus
 
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavir...ggest-12082178
Quote:
Coronavirus: Third of tests in England 'not linked' to new NHS app, developers suggest

The developers of the new NHS coronavirus tracing app have suggested that more than 60,000 tests carried out in England yesterday - just under a third of the total - cannot be linked to its systems.

The admission appears to undermine the central role of the software, which is to warn people when they have come into contact with anyone who subsequently tests positive.

The long-awaited NHS coronavirus contact-tracing app launched two days ago across England and Wales.

However, in a response to a tweet by a user who said they had been tested but could not upload the result, the app's developers said it is not linked to test results processed in a Public Health England lab or NHS hospital.

"If your test took place in a Public Health England lab or NHS hospital, or as part of national surveillance testing conducted by the Office for National Statistics, test results cannot currently be linked with the app whether they're positive or negative," they wrote.

Hom3r 26-09-2020 13:22
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36051389)
At least one Supermarket has decided to stop the panic buyers early ;



---------- Post added at 19:43 ---------- Previous post was at 19:41 ----------



If the Government want to buy me a new "smart" phone, they are more than welcome. Otherwise, I'll stick with my trusty little J700.
My local Sainsbury's has been limiting certain items since the last panic buying.

papa smurf 26-09-2020 13:22
Re: Coronavirus
 
RULE OF 600 Hundreds of boozers spill out of pubs into street ‘party’ and packed Tubes after ‘fun police’ enforce 10pm curfews


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/127743...urfew-boozers/

Mad Max 26-09-2020 13:41
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36051513)
RULE OF 600 Hundreds of boozers spill out of pubs into street ‘party’ and packed Tubes after ‘fun police’ enforce 10pm curfews


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/127743...urfew-boozers/

They will close the pubs very soon imo.

Hom3r 26-09-2020 14:18
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36051516)
They will close the pubs very soon imo.
Better still, dish out a few £1,000 fines

1andrew1 26-09-2020 14:42
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36051516)
They will close the pubs very soon imo.
In parts of central London, many pubs haven't re-opened since March as their customers are all working from home.

Unfortunately, closing the pubs and restaurants in London at 10pm compresses all those who would normally have left at 10pm, 11pm and midnight onto the same trains and buses, so social distancing becomes weakened.

Pierre 26-09-2020 15:24
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36051499)
But I would consider the elderly an “ at risk” group?

In any event shielding should
Quote:
Stratified shielding will need to be combined with other measures and should be recognised as a population health strategy.
https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m2063

papa smurf 26-09-2020 15:29
Re: Coronavirus
 
What if the elderly don't want shielding and just want to live out there lives as they wish to.

Pierre 26-09-2020 16:07
Re: Coronavirus
 
The bottom line is ......” is the NHS at risk of being overwhelmed”?

Ev3n at the height of the pandemic everyone that needed a bed had one, everyone that needed a ventilator had one.

Unless hospital admissions look like they’re heading to those levels There should not be extra restrictions ( I hate the term lockdown, as we’re not in lockdown in any way).

That is in the government’s 5 point plan, that they’re ignoring.

1andrew1 26-09-2020 17:39
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36051534)
What if the elderly don't want shielding and just want to live out there lives as they wish to.
That same arguement can be made for any group who think the same way. But not every group costs the NHS the same if it doesn't comply.

Sephiroth 26-09-2020 19:16
Re: Coronavirus
 
Sod the bloody NHS. All we hear about is the NHS, NHS, NHS.

What is the point of an NHS that cannot provide the service element in its name? Cancer? Kidneys? Hip replacements, etc. The NHS isn't exactly overwhelmed with CV vases now plus they have the Nightingale capacity.

Barbed wire round the doctors' surgery; Gestapo surgery front desk only capable of saying "No".

My mask shields me from other emitted particles; my plain galss spectacles reduces particle ingress to my eyes; hand gel galore. What's the big problem?

If the younger proportion run wild, they're not affecting the more vulnerable people who protect themselves sensibly.

And the Guvmin hasn't a clue what do do.

Damien 26-09-2020 19:28
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36051493)
Vitamin D helps fight and avoid infection

http://news.sky.com/story/coronaviru...-find-12081132

But we knew that over 4 months ago, so why hasn’t it been publicised more?
I think there was a strong suspicion that it might but also concerns over if the data really told that story. People with vitamin D deficiencies were doing worse than those without but those with vitamin D deficiencies are also people who may not go out such as the elderly who were already susceptible to COVID. So it was a correlation does not imply causation thing. Remember at the start of this there was also the suspicion that ibuprofen would make COVID worse which turned out not to be true.

So they do a study and it turns out that, at least this time, there is evidence their suspicion is correct. Public Health authorities though are rightly wary of promoting health advice they aren't entirely convinced by.

papa smurf 26-09-2020 19:38
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36051551)
Sod the bloody NHS. All we hear about is the NHS, NHS, NHS.

What is the point of an NHS that cannot provide the service element in its name? Cancer? Kidneys? Hip replacements, etc. The NHS isn't exactly overwhelmed with CV vases now plus they have the Nightingale capacity.

Barbed wire round the doctors' surgery; Gestapo surgery front desk only capable of saying "No".

My mask shields me from other emitted particles; my plain galss spectacles reduces particle ingress to my eyes; hand gel galore. What's the big problem?

If the younger proportion run wild, they're not affecting the more vulnerable people who protect themselves sensibly.

And the Guvmin hasn't a clue what do do.
You won't get many old folk clapping for the Nhs who have abandoned them.

Mad Max 26-09-2020 19:41
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36051551)
Sod the bloody NHS. All we hear about is the NHS, NHS, NHS.

What is the point of an NHS that cannot provide the service element in its name? Cancer? Kidneys? Hip replacements, etc. The NHS isn't exactly overwhelmed with CV vases now plus they have the Nightingale capacity.

Barbed wire round the doctors' surgery; Gestapo surgery front desk only capable of saying "No".

My mask shields me from other emitted particles; my plain galss spectacles reduces particle ingress to my eyes; hand gel galore. What's the big problem?

If the younger proportion run wild, they're not affecting the more vulnerable people who protect themselves sensibly.

And the Guvmin hasn't a clue what do do.
Totally agree with that, it's an absolute joke now, bloody sick of all this shit.

downquark1 26-09-2020 19:42
Re: Coronavirus
 
Vitamin D is a vitamin, there is no downside from promoting it. Yes topping up your vitamin d levels ensures your immune system is at 100% but it won't boost it beyond that

Pierre 26-09-2020 19:50
Re: Coronavirus
 
Love this from the police today in London.

https://twitter.com/MetPoliceEvents/...87897802280967

Quote:
We continue to urge crowds to disperse. This protest is no longer exempt from the regulations.
.
Oh because it’s not about BLM, or extinction rebellion it’s not exempt from the regulations.

nomadking 26-09-2020 19:56
Re: Coronavirus
 
Even with Vitamin D, the immune system takes time to build it's immunity. In that intervening time, damage is done to cells.

The required specialist surgeons(eg orthopaedic for joint replacements) can't be magicked out of thin air, Then there is the physiotherapists etc.

Wearing a mask isn't 100% effective.

Not quite sure how having potentially infected people gathering in GP surgeries is a good idea.

The younger generation go home, work in shops, visit people etc. That makes their behaviour a potential risk.

---------- Post added at 19:56 ---------- Previous post was at 19:56 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36051558)
Love this from the police today in London.

https://twitter.com/MetPoliceEvents/...87897802280967

.
Oh because it’s not about BLM, or extinction rebellion it’s not exempt from the regulations.
Different time with different regulations?

Pierre 26-09-2020 20:01
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36051560)
Different time with different regulations?
Absolute bollocks.

The BLM protests occurred when we were still in full national lockdown, you know when Cummings was getting his eyes tested.

This is double standards and hypocrisy of a gold standard.

Mad Max 26-09-2020 20:11
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36051563)
Absolute bollocks.

The BLM protests occurred when we were still in full national lockdown, you know when Cummings was getting his eyes tested.

This is double standards and hypocrisy of a gold standard.
Spot on :clap:

jfman 26-09-2020 20:19
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36051563)
Absolute bollocks.

The BLM protests occurred when we were still in full national lockdown, you know when Cummings was getting his eyes tested.

This is double standards and hypocrisy of a gold standard.
Far from being “bollocks” it’s fairly obvious outside the right wing echo chamber that morons were out to cause bother and the police adjusted to the situation. Morons at a time Covid cases are spiking. Hard to see the sense in supporting them.

nomadking 26-09-2020 20:21
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36051563)
Absolute bollocks.

The BLM protests occurred when we were still in full national lockdown, you know when Cummings was getting his eyes tested.

This is double standards and hypocrisy of a gold standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36051564)
Spot on :clap:
Really? I did put a ? at the end of the sentence, because I hadn't checked.
Covid: Clashes as police shut down protest over new rules
Quote:
The Met Police said the protest was being shut down because the crowd was not social distancing.
Thousands had gathered in central London to protest against the latest government rules, with very few wearing masks.
Protests are exempt from the rule-of-six restrictions, but demonstrators must social distance; organisers must also submit a risk assessment.
Link

Quote:
Each UK nation is advising people to stay 2m (6ft) away from anyone they don't live with. However, there are some differences:
  • In England, if you can't stay 2m away, you can stay "1m plus" apart. The "plus" means doing something else to limit possible exposure - like wearing a face covering
So indeed it is a case of different time, different rules.

jfman 26-09-2020 20:25
Re: Coronavirus
 
It’s a bad day when Nomadking can shoot you down with copying and pasting from two sources.

Pierre 26-09-2020 20:26
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051566)
Far from being “bollocks” it’s fairly obvious outside the right wing echo chamber that morons were out to cause bother and the police adjusted to the situation. Morons at a time Covid cases are spiking. Hard to see the sense in supporting them.
They didn’t “adjust” for BLM, they just let them vandalise what they want.

I don’t “support” them, I support the right to protest on an equal footing to other causes and be policed in the same manner.

nomadking 26-09-2020 20:28
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051568)
It’s a bad day when Nomadking can shoot you down with copying and pasting from two sources.
Unfortunately, I would say it's more of a normal day.:D

Pierre 26-09-2020 20:30
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36051567)
Really? I did put a ? at the end of the sentence, because I hadn't checked.
Covid: Clashes as police shut down protest over new rules
Link

So indeed it is a case of different time, different rules.
Did the BLM protestors socially distance? Did the extinction rebellion protestors socially distance - when, I might add we were in full national lockdown.

The answer if you are unsure, is absolutely no, and I might add again that this type of totalitarian bollocks is partly the reason they are protesting.

It seems that some protests are more equal than others.

Such is the way of things these times.

Damien 26-09-2020 20:31
Re: Coronavirus
 
An anti-mask protest is probably going to break the rules on wearing masks tbf.

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:30 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36051572)
Did the BLM protestors socially distance? Did the extinction rebellion protestors socially distance - when, I might add we were in full national lockdown.
The national lock down had easied to be 'exercise as much as you want, go to work if you must, you can drive to wherever you like' by then. It wasn't quite the full national lockdown.

Pierre 26-09-2020 20:33
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051568)
It’s a bad day when Nomadking can shoot you down with copying and pasting from two sources.
?, I see you’re Still the model citizen, government lackey.

Remember!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Also.jfman
It’s somewhat naive of you to simply take everything Government says at face value

Mad Max 26-09-2020 20:33
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36051573)
An anti-mask protest is probably going to break the rules on wearing masks tbf.

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:30 ----------



The national lock down had easied to be 'exercise as much as you want, go to work if you must, you can drive to wherever you like' by then. It wasn't quite the full national lockdown.
It's not a full national lockdown now, so what's your point?

Damien 26-09-2020 20:34
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36051579)
It's not a full national lockdown now, so what's your point?
I was replying to Pierre's point that we were in full national lockdown.

The quote was actually in my post.

Pierre 26-09-2020 20:35
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36051570)
Unfortunately, I would say it's more of a normal day.:D
In your world, no one else’s.

jfman 26-09-2020 20:36
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36051572)
Did the BLM protestors socially distance? Did the extinction rebellion protestors socially distance - when, I might add we were in full national lockdown.

The answer if you are unsure, is absolutely no, and I might add again that this type of totalitarian bollocks is partly the reason they are protesting.

It seems that some protests are more equal than others.

Such is the way of things these times.
You’re having a nightmare here Pierre. Clearly the Covid situation is more precarious now, and Covid conspiracy theorists represent a far greater risk to public health than the other protests.

I suspect your judgement is being clouded by your view of the political motives behind each protest rather than being objective from a health perspective.

downquark1 26-09-2020 20:36
Re: Coronavirus
 
There were mass gatherings that resulted in criminal damage that didn't get prosecuted. While a guy who protested to save the statues got two weeks in prison for public urination after he turned himself over.

jfman 26-09-2020 20:38
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36051578)
?, I see you’re Still the model citizen, government lackey.

Remember!
A contradiction in a single post. A government lackey at the start and telling you that you lack the insight/ability to critically analyse government disinformation on the other.

A record, by your own standards of contradiction.

Pierre 26-09-2020 20:38
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36051573)
An anti-mask protest is probably going to break the rules on wearing masks tbf.

---------- Post added at 20:31 ---------- Previous post was at 20:30 ----------



The national lock down had easied to be 'exercise as much as you want, go to work if you must, you can drive to wherever you like' by then. It wasn't quite the full national lockdown.
No, the George Floyd BLM protests started on 25th May. PM announced ease of Lockdown restrictions on 23rd June.

jfman 26-09-2020 20:44
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36051586)
No, the George Floyd BLM protests started on 25th May. PM announced ease of Lockdown restrictions on 23rd June.
When were the VE Day parties?

Mad Max 26-09-2020 20:45
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051589)
When were the VE Day parties?
Obviously on a day when you wouldn't like them!

Pierre 26-09-2020 20:48
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051582)
You’re having a nightmare here Pierre. Clearly the Covid situation is more precarious now,
You’re Hilarious, the Covid situation is worse now, when 30 people a day are dying as opposed to the BLM protests in May when 130 people a day were dying!

Whose having the nightmare?

Quote:
and Covid conspiracy theorists represent a far greater risk to public health than the other protests.
Are they all “conspiracy theorists” ? Most May just have concerns on how the authorities are dealing with it. Concerns many people have, based on this response genuine concerns.

Quote:
I suspect your judgement is being clouded by your view of the political motives behind each protest rather than being objective from a health perspective.
My judgement is on the Political response to the protests

---------- Post added at 20:48 ---------- Previous post was at 20:45 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051589)
When were the VE Day parties?
Point?

Damien 26-09-2020 20:48
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36051586)
No, the George Floyd BLM protests started on 25th May. PM announced ease of Lockdown restrictions on 23rd June.
The restrictions I am taking about (exercise as much as you like, drive where you want, work if you cannot work from home) were on the 10th May.

23rd of June is when he said pubs and restaurants were allowed to open on the 4th July. By then shops were already open.

jfman 26-09-2020 20:51
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36051592)
You’re Hilarious, the Covid situation is worse now, when 30 people a day are dying as opposed to the BLM protests in May when 130 people a day were dying!

Whose having the nightmare?
As I’m sure you are aware they have changed the measure for that statistic. Also those deaths, where they were directly linked to Covid, will have related hospitalisation, and contracting Covid, at an earlier date.

Quote:
Are they all “conspiracy theorists” ? Most May just have concerns on how the authorities are dealing with it. Concerns many people have, based on this response genuine concerns.

My judgement is on the Political response to the protests
Hmmm.

Quote:
Point?
I don’t see you frothing at the mouth with anger over those, or questioning how appropriate they were.

---------- Post added at 19:51 ---------- Previous post was at 19:51 ----------



Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36051595)
The restrictions I am taking about (exercise as much as you like, drive where you want, work if you cannot work from home) were on the 10th May.

23rd of June is when he said pubs and restaurants were allowed to open on the 4th July. By then shops were already open.
Pierre is, as ever, being very selective.

nomadking 26-09-2020 20:52
Re: Coronavirus
 
The difference is that there are now regulations on social distancing, whereas before there wasn't. They weren't arrested for simply gathering, they were arrested for not social distancing.
Whether a previous group of protesters were causing damage, and not being arrested is a separate issue.


As my previous link/quote pointed out, protests ARE allowed, but they have to socially distance and submit a risk assessment.

Mad Max 26-09-2020 20:55
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36051598)
The difference is that there are now regulations on social distancing, whereas before there wasn't. They weren't arrested for simply gathering, they were arrested for not social distancing.
Whether a previous group of protesters were causing damage, and not being arrested is a separate issue.
Funny that, afaik, no one was arrested when the pubs were emptied at ten pm last night in London.

Pierre 26-09-2020 20:58
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36051595)
The restrictions I am taking about (exercise as much as you like, drive where you want, work if you cannot work from home) were on the 10th May.
Which you can do now.

Quote:
23rd of June is when he said pubs and restaurants were allowed to open on the 4th July. By then shops were already open.
So pub/ restaurants were still on lockdown then, but they are not now.

Either way you cut it, the restrictions were tighter during the BLM protests, that they are now.

Therefore the police response is not proportionate.

downquark1 26-09-2020 21:01
Re: Coronavirus
 
Also the deaths were higher which I would consider the "realist" factor

jfman 26-09-2020 21:05
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36051599)
Funny that, afaik, no one was arrested when the pubs were emptied at ten pm last night in London.
Is there room for Pierre on the end of that straw?

Pierre 26-09-2020 21:05
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051596)
As I’m sure you are aware they have changed the measure for that statistic. Also those deaths, where they were directly linked to Covid, will have related hospitalisation, and contracting Covid, at an earlier date.
Sorry all I can hear is “this vehicle is reversing”

Quote:
I don’t see you frothing at the mouth with anger over those, or questioning how appropriate they were
well they weren’t protesting in central London or other cities for that matter.

Also my point is not about appropriateness, or about the protest. My point is very simply about the same conditions and response being afforded to those protesting this issue, as was afforded to those protesting previous issues. That’s all

Quote:
Pierre is, as ever, being very selective.
Factual, the word is factual.

jfman 26-09-2020 21:07
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36051605)
Sorry all I can hear is “this vehicle is reversing”

well they weren’t protesting in central London or other cities for that matter.

Also my point is not about appropriateness, or about the protest. My point is very simply about the same conditions and response being afforded to those protesting this issue, as was afforded to those protesting previous issues. That’s all


Factual, the word is factual.
I didn’t realise Covid only spread in major cities. Apologies.

Damien 26-09-2020 21:15
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36051601)
Which you can do now.



So pub/ restaurants were still on lockdown then, but they are not now.

Either way you cut it, the restrictions were tighter during the BLM protests, that they are now.

Therefore the police response is not proportionate.
That's fine. I was only saying we weren't in Full lockdown at that point.

I don't think the restrictions now are more than they were then. I don't actually know why the police stopped this protest but as I said since they were protesting the rules on COVID I wouldn't be surprised they broke the rules on COVID.

I think a lot of the times it's about how much the people 'push it'. The police would have turned a blind-eye to some rule breaking as it's not fesible or sensible to arrest everyone who isn't social distancing or wearing a mask but if you have mass rule breaking then that can only go so far.

I don't have a strong opinion on the BLM marches or this one breaking the rules though. They both seemed pretty risky.

jfman 26-09-2020 21:20
Re: Coronavirus
 
I think that’s the difference. Pierre has such strong opinions on BLM he literally started the thread.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...php?t=33709106

Hom3r 26-09-2020 21:28
Re: Coronavirus
 
My mum has been taking Vitamin D3 for years, it didn't stop her catching Coronavirus and ending up paralysed.

Pierre 26-09-2020 21:35
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36051598)
The difference is that there are now regulations on social distancing, whereas before there wasn't. They weren't arrested for simply gathering, they were arrested for not social distancing.
Well, the issue we have here is a massive one, and that is that legislation has gone through it under the guise of the:

The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) Regulations 2020

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/684

Which basically removes your right to protest, en mass, in a seemingly free society. The people protesting in London are right to protest.

If you didn’t know about this, you should and you should be concerned.

This is bordering on Orwellian. I’m pretty sure this was never debated in Parliament. Which is why I’m sure MP’ are now demanding that.

Government is stepping beyond what is acceptable to a free society.



Whether a previous group of protesters were causing damage, and not being arrested is a separate issue.


As my previous link/quote pointed out, protests ARE allowed, but they have to socially distance and submit a risk assessment.[/QUOTE]

---------- Post added at 21:35 ---------- Previous post was at 21:33 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051608)
I think that’s the difference. Pierre has such strong opinions on BLM he literally started the thread.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...php?t=33709106
I do have strong opinions on it, so did many others,................. point?

denphone 26-09-2020 21:35
Re: Coronavirus
 
It seems Boris Johnson's honeymoon period has well and truly ended..

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...covid-measures

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ch-in-fortunes

Pierre 26-09-2020 21:42
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien (Post 36051607)

I don't have a strong opinion on the BLM marches or this one breaking the rules though. They both seemed pretty risky.
My point was, which I made earlier on in the thread.

I have no issue with the BLM protests (I have major reservations on BLM as a political entity) but they can protest all they want. If they want to vandalise stuff and attack police....fine.

I also have no issue with the protestors that have current concerns with how the government are handling COVID, sure there are wackos amongst them, but also intelligent concerned people.

What I do have an issue with is the difference in police response.

---------- Post added at 21:42 ---------- Previous post was at 21:41 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051616)
That if they were white and causing damage/ignoring coronavirus guidance you’d not feel as strongly.
Well that my man is total bollocks, made without any foundation or evidence, care to back that up or remove it ?

jfman 26-09-2020 21:51
Re: Coronavirus
 
It’s you that’s twisting against one set of protests and sticking up for another. I’m unsure really why to be honest. I think in the current climate, as we all live under greater restrictions they should equally be discouraged.

I don’t think you fully appreciate the concerns behind BLM, but that’s for another thread (that you started). I think your political bias is showing here.

Pierre 26-09-2020 21:55
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051621)
It’s you that’s twisting against one set of protests and sticking up for another. I’m unsure really why to be honest. I think in the current climate, as we all live under greater restrictions they should equally be discouraged.

I don’t think you fully appreciate the concerns behind BLM, but that’s for another thread (that you started). I think your political bias is showing here.
I invite you to remove your earlier statement.

Mr K 26-09-2020 21:57
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36051615)
Tbh Den it has been a nightmare for him and he can't wait to quit. Only £150k a year, no fun to be had, and Brexit turns out to be a crap to idea with his name on it. Plus his Mrs turns out to be a namby pamby green liberal who thinks he should change the nappies occasionally... Poor Bozza, I genuinely feel for him...

jfman 26-09-2020 21:58
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36051622)
I invite you to remove your earlier statement.
I’ve removed it since you’ve taken such offence from it and asked.

I do think you are demonstrating bias, perhaps unconsciously, against BLM. However as I said that’s for another thread. A gathering is a gathering in my book.

Damien 26-09-2020 22:07
Re: Coronavirus
 
Let's keep the topic of BLM out of this thread, other than discussing protests

Pierre 26-09-2020 22:07
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051625)
I’ve removed it since you’ve taken such offence from it and asked.

I do think you are demonstrating bias, perhaps unconsciously, against BLM. However as I said that’s for another thread. A gathering is a gathering in my book.
Thank you.

I’ve been consistent with my view on BLM on this forum.

I agree with the message of BLM.

I argued against the death of George Floyd and against those on this forum that attempted to mitigate it.

I have always drawn a distinction between BLM the message and BLM the political entity/ideology.

There is a difference.

jfman 26-09-2020 23:28
Re: Coronavirus
 
https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-to-you-and-me

Let’s adopt the Sweden model. 50% working from home. Make employers pay levies for social security payments at sizeable percentages of wages.

Sounds amazing.

Mad Max 26-09-2020 23:55
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051604)
Is there room for Pierre on the end of that straw?
Well let me ask you this question, smart arse, were there any reports of any arrests?

jfman 27-09-2020 00:12
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36051643)
Well let me ask you this question, smart arse, were there any reports of any arrests?
No need for insults, Max.

Dad anyone get arrested at the VE Day street parties? They looked closer than 2 metres to me. Many of them looked high risk too.

Mad Max 27-09-2020 00:24
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051647)
No need for insults, Max.

Dad anyone get arrested at the VE Day street parties? They looked closer than 2 metres to me. Many of them looked high risk too.
I have no idea, did you witness or see any? What's your real objective here, jfman? you seem to have a bee in your bonnet against anything British, hence your quote about the VE Day street celebrations, which did not attract the same volume of people as those involved in leaving pubs or at mass demonstrations.

jfman 27-09-2020 00:44
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36051649)
I have no idea, did you witness or see any? What's your real objective here, jfman? you seem to have a bee in your bonnet against anything British, hence your quote about the VE Day street celebrations, which did not attract the same volume of people as those involved in leaving pubs or at mass demonstrations.
Whoa that’s a leap.

Can you evidence that less people attended VE Day street parties than these so called “mass demonstrations”. The BBC certainly found one easy enough to join them for singing those tedious wartime ditties.

What’s my “real objective” here? I’m not a spy, Max. I’m fairly transparent in this thread on the fact I’d like to see the virus dealt with effectively by the Govermment, which in turn promotes economic recovery.

Mad Max 27-09-2020 00:52
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051652)
Whoa that’s a leap.

Can you evidence that less people attended VE Day street parties than these so called “mass demonstrations”. The BBC certainly found one easy enough to join them for singing those tedious wartime ditties.

What’s my “real objective” here? I’m not a spy, Max. I’m fairly transparent in this thread on the fact I’d like to see the virus dealt with effectively by the Govermment, which in turn promotes economic recovery.
Are you really saying that the street parties were attended by more people than the demonstrations? Maybe they were if you counted the numbers throughout the country, but they weren't all as close together as the demonstrations were but, no doubt you'll come up with the answer.

jfman 27-09-2020 00:56
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36051654)
Are you really saying that the street parties were attended by more people than the demonstrations? Maybe they were if you counted the numbers throughout the country, but they weren't all as close together as the demonstrations were but, no doubt you'll come up with the answer.
That’s exactly what I’m saying. The vomit inducing BBC coverage certainly didn’t show much 2 metre distancing or a lack of household mixing when I looked.

The virus doesn’t care if you’re one large mass gathering or thousands of smaller ones. It takes its opportunities when it can.

Mad Max 27-09-2020 01:05
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36051655)
That’s exactly what I’m saying. The vomit inducing BBC coverage certainly didn’t show much 2 metre distancing or a lack of household mixing when I looked.

The virus doesn’t care if you’re one large mass gathering or thousands of smaller ones. It takes its opportunities when it can.
Why is that vomit-inducing to you? Kinda sums up what I said earlier about your dislike ( and I'm being kind here) to anything British.

Paul 27-09-2020 05:03
Re: Coronavirus
 
Back to the topic please.

---------- Post added at 05:03 ---------- Previous post was at 04:38 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone (Post 36051615)
It seems Boris Johnson's honeymoon period has well and truly ended.
His recent actions and dictatorship imposition of endless rules are killing the support of everyone I knew that once supported him.

I supported the early decisions, I grugingly supported the lockdown.

But over the last few weeks its just been one knee jerk reaction after another, and as per previous post, a lot of the general public (that I know of, and myself as well) are getting pretty cheesed off with all these constant (and inconsistant) rules for something none of us have see any evidence of (other than on TV).

I went out for a meal tonight. The rules forced me to wear a mask to walk 20 or so feet from the door to my table, and the same when I left.
A trip of about 10 seconds each way, Im sure it made all the difference (esp as its almost a certainty there is no CV19 anywhere near the place).

I had to keep asking staff to repeat what they were saying to me because their masks muffled their voice so much I could not make it out (a noisy environment).

I happened upon the official government site on masks, which states ;
Quote:
The best available scientific evidence is that, when used correctly, wearing a face covering may reduce the spread of coronavirus droplets in certain circumstances...
Not exactly a ringing endorsment of their usefulness (and presumably thats real masks, not the homemade/makshift ones many people use).

nomadking 27-09-2020 06:40
Re: Coronavirus
 
There is a difference between what was in the past, just advice or guidance, and what has now been enshrined in law. There is a legal difference between "should" and "must".
26 June

Quote:
Current guidance says that “where possible, you should maintain 2m between people”. The guidance should change to state that 2m or 1m with risk mitigation (where 2m is not viable) are acceptable, and that businesses should set out the mitigations that they will introduce in their risk assessment.

Any measures are introduced at the "last minute" in response to an ever-changing situation. Not really a situation suitable for endless debates that delay things. The alternative would have to be even harsher rules, because of the delay in being able to introduce them. They would have to be entirely speculative and possibly over the top, because they wouldn't know what the situation would be by the time anything was debated and approved.

Pierre 27-09-2020 08:35
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36051660)
But over the last few weeks its just been one knee jerk reaction after another, and as per previous post, a lot of the general public (that I know of, and myself as well) are getting pretty cheesed off with all these constant (and inconsistant) rules for something none of us have see any evidence of (other than on TV).
The scary thing is Paul, is that these “ knee jerk” rules are no actual law.

Read it , click on the link.


The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) Regulations 2020

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/684

It’s no longer a case of being asked nicely to do something, it’s do it or be sanctioned by the state.

That is complete overkill for this situation.

Mr K 27-09-2020 10:24
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36051664)
The scary thing is Paul, is that these “ knee jerk” rules are no actual law.

Read it , click on the link.


The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (No. 2) (England) Regulations 2020

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/684

It’s no longer a case of being asked nicely to do something, it’s do it or be sanctioned by the state.

That is complete overkill for this situation.
The problem is a lot of the public are stupid, self-centred, and think they know better. Hence the need for laws.

In Sweden most comply without the need for legislation. They have a sense of community which we lost long ago.

papa smurf 27-09-2020 10:34
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36051680)
The problem is a lot of the public are stupid, self-centred, and think they know better. Hence the need for laws.

In Sweden most comply without the need for legislation. They have a sense of community which we lost long ago.
No no no don't bring yourself down like that,look in the mirror and say i am worth it,i am not stupid,i love myself just as i am.;)

OLD BOY 27-09-2020 13:37
Re: Coronavirus
 
[Post deleted]

nomadking 27-09-2020 13:41
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36051719)
You have totally ignored the point about the different treatment of these twogroups, which is the point being made.
The LAW was different between the 2 events.

1andrew1 27-09-2020 13:42
Re: Coronavirus
 
Extract from a lengthy article comparing different countries success in fighting Covid.
Quote:
So why – in so far as we can find answers – are we back in such a mess? Many scientists believe that, having got numbers down in the summer, we failed to finish the job off and reduce them to a low enough level before easing restrictions. We moved too fast, too early. And when the restrictions were removed, there is a consensus emerging that the easing was done unsystematically, instead of individual restrictions being lifted one by one at different times.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...k-in-this-mess

OLD BOY 27-09-2020 13:48
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36051660)
Back to the topic please.

---------- Post added at 05:03 ---------- Previous post was at 04:38 ----------


His recent actions and dictatorship imposition of endless rules are killing the support of everyone I knew that once supported him.

I supported the early decisions, I grugingly supported the lockdown.

But over the last few weeks its just been one knee jerk reaction after another, and as per previous post, a lot of the general public (that I know of, and myself as well) are getting pretty cheesed off with all these constant (and inconsistant) rules for something none of us have see any evidence of (other than on TV).

I went out for a meal tonight. The rules forced me to wear a mask to walk 20 or so feet from the door to my table, and the same when I left.
A trip of about 10 seconds each way, Im sure it made all the difference (esp as its almost a certainty there is no CV19 anywhere near the place).

I had to keep asking staff to repeat what they were saying to me because their masks muffled their voice so much I could not make it out (a noisy environment).

I happened upon the official government site on masks, which states ;

Not exactly a ringing endorsment of their usefulness (and presumably thats real masks, not the homemade/makshift ones many people use).
The PM is reacting to the way the virus is spreading. If he did not react, the measures taken up until that point would have been inadequate to achieve the required results.

However, I must agree that enough is enough. There is growing pressure now for a different approach - one that I have been advocating for sometime now. Protect the vulnerable and let the rest of the population to go about their business.

Hopefully,the Commons debate on 6 October will achieve just that. I just hope they don’t force the older population to shield, because many of them are still hail and hearty. Some of us are even healthier than some people in their 30s and so it would be massively unfair to subject them to such restrictions.

nomadking 27-09-2020 13:54
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36051721)
Extract from a lengthy article comparing different countries success in fighting Covid.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...k-in-this-mess
You can't know in advance how any easing of restrictions would turn out. If it could've been known, that would've made things easy.
Which countries HAVEN'T been caught out by easing of restrictions? Just look at the list of countries, where you are required to quarantine upon return to the UK.

OLD BOY 27-09-2020 14:16
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36051725)
You can't know in advance how any easing of restrictions would turn out. If it could've been known, that would've made things easy.
Which countries HAVEN'T been caught out by easing of restrictions? Just look at the list of countries, where you are required to quarantine upon return to the UK.
I think we can safely say that lockdowns and quarantines are not working. It’s time to get real.

nomadking 27-09-2020 14:22
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36051735)
I think we can safely say that lockdowns and quarantines are not working. It’s time to get real.
Surely it's easing of any measures that is the problem? The infection rate spirals upwards when restrictions are eased.

1andrew1 27-09-2020 14:36
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36051737)
Surely it's easing of any measures that is the problem? The infection rate spirals upwards when restrictions are eased.
Agreed. This should be an uncontroversial statement.

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:34 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36051725)
You can't know in advance how any easing of restrictions would turn out. If it could've been known, that would've made things easy.
Which countries HAVEN'T been caught out by easing of restrictions? Just look at the list of countries, where you are required to quarantine upon return to the UK.
That's the whole point - ease the restrictions more gradually to establish the impact each one has.

nomadking 27-09-2020 14:50
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36051743)
Agreed. This should be an uncontroversial statement.

---------- Post added at 14:36 ---------- Previous post was at 14:34 ----------


That's the whole point - ease the restrictions more gradually to establish the impact each one has.
There is no known single source of the problem. You don't know where it is going to originate. All the the activities are potentially a problem, it all depends on which activities any infected people take part in.

RichardCoulter 27-09-2020 17:58
Re: Coronavirus
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf (Post 36051513)
RULE OF 600 Hundreds of boozers spill out of pubs into street ‘party’ and packed Tubes after ‘fun police’ enforce 10pm curfews


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/127743...urfew-boozers/
One of our pubs had a visit from the police at 22:04. Without getting into whether the 10pm curfew is right or not, it's odd that they have the resources for this. After years of austerity cuts the police have complained that they don't have the manpower to deal with even serious crimes like child sex abuse, burglary etc, yet they have the resources to visit pubs with Environmental Health Officers to check compliance of the smoking ban and the curfew :confused:


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