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nomadking 11-08-2022 13:46
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36130955)
He's coming up with a solution to the problem which you're not. If they cannot afford it, he's offering to nationalise them. That would settle your argument conclusively.
How would nationalising them solve anything? Any nationalised business would still have to pay high prices for the energy.
Still doesn't change the FACT, that almost everybody is under the impression that the suppliers are making "massive profits". So are they or aren't they?

GrimUpNorth 11-08-2022 14:00
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36130958)
How would nationalising them solve anything? Any nationalised business would still have to pay high prices for the energy.
Still doesn't change the FACT, that almost everybody is under the impression that the suppliers are making "massive profits". So are they or aren't they?
How would YOU help people who are struggling at the moment and those who are going to struggle when the cap goes up again in October and January as it seems more than likely to do?

1andrew1 11-08-2022 14:46
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36130960)
How would YOU help people who are struggling at the moment and those who are going to struggle when the cap goes up again in October and January as it seems more than likely to do?
That's the key question.

nomadking 11-08-2022 15:33
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36130960)
How would YOU help people who are struggling at the moment and those who are going to struggle when the cap goes up again in October and January as it seems more than likely to do?
To begin with, STOP PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THE MEDIA, TELLING LIES.
People should not be under the FALSE impression, that the suppliers are making massive profits, and can therefore reduce their prices. The TRUTH seems to be an antiquated concept.
Far too late to do things such as nuclear energy and fracking.
If there is meant to be a shortage of gas, who exactly is going without?

Taf 11-08-2022 15:46
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36130936)
The clue might be in the name - Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries ;)

They are Oil/Petroleum, not Gas...
Quote:
Gas prices are largely controlled by OPEC, or the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, an organization that includes Algeria, Angola, Ecuador, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Venezuela.

1andrew1 11-08-2022 15:47
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36130973)
To begin with, STOP PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THE MEDIA, TELLING LIES.
People should not be under the FALSE impression, that the suppliers are making massive profits, and can therefore reduce their prices. The TRUTH seems to be an antiquated concept.
Far too late to do things such as nuclear energy and fracking.
If there is meant to be a shortage of gas, who exactly is going without?
I'm not sure any of the above helps the man on the Clapham Omnibus pay his bills.

Hugh 11-08-2022 16:08
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36130976)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post

The clue might be in the name - Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries

They are Oil/Petroleum, not Gas...
Quote:
Gas prices are largely controlled by OPEC, or the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, an organization that includes Algeria, Angola, Ecuador, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Venezuela.

You appear to have sourced that quote from here

https://www.wise-geek.com/how-does-o...er%20of%20OPEC.

Quote:
Americans drive three trillion miles a year, equal to 820 trips between Pluto and the sun. The United States uses 178 million gallons of gasoline a day. A spike in gas prices affects everything from the cost of bread to the amount of taxes available for community needs. A sharp rise or fall, instead of more gradual movement, can have a huge impact on the world's economy. Gas prices are largely controlled by OPEC, or the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, an organization that includes Algeria, Angola, Ecuador, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Venezuela.
They are using the US terminology for petrol…

GrimUpNorth 11-08-2022 16:10
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36130973)
To begin with, STOP PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY THE MEDIA, TELLING LIES.
People should not be under the FALSE impression, that the suppliers are making massive profits, and can therefore reduce their prices. The TRUTH seems to be an antiquated concept.
Far too late to do things such as nuclear energy and fracking.
If there is meant to be a shortage of gas, who exactly is going without?
All very nice, but I'm still wondering how would YOU help people who are struggling at the moment and those who are going to struggle when the cap goes up again in October and January as it seems more than likely to do?

nomadking 11-08-2022 16:12
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36130977)
I'm not sure any of the above helps the man on the Clapham Omnibus pay his bills.
Well nationalising the energy suppliers won't either.
So the question, unsurprisingly still remains, of what massive profits are the suppliers making that they could possibly reduce prices?
My last sentence of my previous post, poses an important question. Is anybody going without energy, because others have bought it all up at high prices?

Hugh 11-08-2022 16:20
Re: The energy crisis
 
1 Attachment(s)
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...728988673.html

Quote:
In 2015 the National Grid commissioned a study into potential effects of Brexit on Energy supply in the UK.

It was published in March 2016.

It formed the basis of their submission to the Energy and Climate Change Committee Inquiry: Leaving the EU: implications for UK energy policy.

IT says if we leave the IEM (Internal Energy Market) we get a bunch of problems to do with decreased market coupling / trading / investment an higher costs / lower energy security.

But on the bright side, it says the risks [of running out of] gas are minimal... because the UK has excess storage capacity.

They wrote this in 2015.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...0&d=1660231126

Then in 2017 the Tory Government allowed Centrica to close down 70% of the UK's gas storage capacity.

nomadking 11-08-2022 16:24
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36130981)
All very nice, but I'm still wondering how would YOU help people who are struggling at the moment and those who are going to struggle when the cap goes up again in October and January as it seems more than likely to do?
The first step to potentially solving a problem, is to actually properly understand it. That involves not allowing people to be fed fake news.

To understand it, you would have to accept that nationalising anything that moves, will not solve anything. Private companies tend to go to greater lengths to buy things at as low a price as possible. A nationalised business isn't going to magically lower costs.

1andrew1 11-08-2022 16:53
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36130982)
Well nationalising the energy suppliers won't either.
If you nationalise them then you can, as Gordon Brown has described. It should be a last case scenario.

---------- Post added at 16:53 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36130984)
It's clear market and regulatory failure here, isn't it? There was no business case for Centrica to maintain storage at the time and no strategic requirement from the regulator to fund it.

jfman 11-08-2022 17:40
Re: The energy crisis
 
A sure fire sign someone is on solid ground is capitalising the word TRUTH.

nomadking 11-08-2022 18:22
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36130986)
If you nationalise them then you can, as Gordon Brown has described. It should be a last case scenario.

---------- Post added at 16:53 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------


It's clear market and regulatory failure here, isn't it? There was no business case for Centrica to maintain storage at the time and no strategic requirement from the regulator to fund it.
How? They still have to pay the same prices for the energy.
With 28m households, £2.8bn would only reduce the cap by £100. How many suppliers are making those sorts of profits?
Germany has a lot of storage, but is still having to high prices for gas, especially to refill that storage.

---------- Post added at 18:22 ---------- Previous post was at 18:10 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36130992)
A sure fire sign someone is on solid ground is capitalising the word TRUTH.
So what have the £3bn profits of GERMAN company E.ON got to do with the UK? Split that up into the number of countries they do business in, and you're not left with much.

Taf 11-08-2022 18:42
Re: The energy crisis
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36130979)
They are using the US terminology for petrol…
Quote:
OPEC, like Russia, has a strong base in the gas industry, even though the focus of our Organization is on the oil market. Our Member Countries hold almost half the world's proven natural gas reserves, with the Islamic Republic of Iran and Qatar being second and third, respectively, to Russia, in global rankings.
Quote:
The volume of marketed production was 471 billion cubic metres (bcm), with an export share approaching 20% of the world total.
In addition, LNG exports alone were about 93 bcm. This is nearly 41% of the world total.
https://www.opec.org/opec_web/en/811...rld%20reserves.


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