Cable Forum - Britain outside the EU

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- - Britain outside the EU (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33709659)

Hugh	06-05-2021 21:23

Re: Britain outside the E

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36078943)

Then perhaps those quotes would have been better to lead with rather than the atrocities we all know the Nazis were guilty of.

Perhaps I was highlighting the inappropriateness of using Nazis* as a standalone positive comparator, whilst ignoring the full picture…

*using the old "remember how bad the Nazis were, well, the French are worse" approach…

Sephiroth

06-05-2021 21:30

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

By Christmas 1944, electricity was no longer available. Candles became scarce, and winter evenings were spent in semi-darkness by the light of a tin can full of oil, with a bootlace for a wick..

Well, of course - we'd bombed the crap out of French Infrastructure.

Quote:

AF bombers began daylight bombing of targets in northern France. 18 RAF Boston light bombers attacked targets in northern France, targeting power stations, rail marshalling yards, and other targets of military importance.

https://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?ba...y%20importance.

---------- Post added at 21:30 ---------- Previous post was at 21:29 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36078945)

As in you got it wrong.

pip08456

06-05-2021 23:31

Re: Britain outside the E

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36078945)

Or you could also add the British invented concentration camps and were complicit in the selling of of millions of slaves, as well as many other atrocities, depends what you want as your comparator.

TheDaddy

06-05-2021 23:52

Re: Britain outside the E

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36078962)

Or you could also add the British invented concentration camps and were complicit in the selling of of millions of slaves, as well as many other atrocities, depends what you want as your comparator.

Big difference between British South African concentration camps and nazi death camps, so big as not to be comparable imo

Hugh	07-05-2021 00:27

Re: Britain outside the E

Quote:

Originally Posted by pip08456 (Post 36078962)

Or you could also add the British invented concentration camps and were complicit in the selling of of millions of slaves, as well as many other atrocities, depends what you want as your comparator.

But the topic of conversation was "Nazis in the CIs being compared to current day French actions" and I was highlighting the inappropriateness of the Government source’s comment, as relayed to me by someone who lives there.

We could, of course, have raised the point of the French taking back Normandy and Anjou in the early 1200s, but there comes a point when it’s obvious one is just trying to obfuscate and derail the debate…

Sephiroth

07-05-2021 09:34

Re: Britain outside the E

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36078966)

.... which you do rather well.

This part of the debate is all about what I've said all along: The EU wants to punish the UK for Brexit and anything we do that touches them puts the UK in the wrong from their point of view.

Their record includes:

Threat to stop vaccine exports from the EU sited plants to the UK;
Legal action over the UK's need for more time to implement the NI customs arrangements;
The latest fun& games in Jersey;
MEP ratification over the Treaty on the basis of VdL's assurance that "it comes with teeth".

1andrew1

12-05-2021 23:56

Re: Britain outside the EU

What kind of person negotiates a deal like that? Best have a word with the person who negotiated it! :D

Quote:

Brexit minister says NI Protocol operation is ‘not sustainable’

The UK's Brexit Minister Lord Frost has said it is hard to see that the way the Northern Ireland Protocol is currently operating "can be sustainable for long".

He was speaking after a visit to Northern Ireland.

The protocol is the part of the Brexit deal which creates a border in the Irish Sea.

It was agreed by the UK and EU in October 2019 and was subject to further negotiation in 2020.

It keeps NI in the EU single market for goods and means EU customs rules are enforced at its ports.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57075664

Carth

13-05-2021 11:16

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36079323)

What kind of person negotiates a deal like that? Best have a word with the person who negotiated it! :D

You're starting to sound like my wife, she sometimes asks questions where she already knows the answer. She thinks she's being clever too ;) :p:

1andrew1

13-05-2021 11:22

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36079341)

You're starting to sound like my wife, she sometimes asks questions where she already knows the answer. She thinks she's being clever too ;) :p:

I'm sure you're both clever. ;)

Carth

13-05-2021 11:23

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36079342)

I'm sure you're both clever. ;)

One of us, not saying which one :D

Hugh	13-05-2021 13:58

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonbxx (Post 36078909)

The argument the French fisherman seem to have is that the terms of the licences they have (or indeed have not) been granted was changed at the last minute. Any changes needed to be non-discriminatory, scientifically based and notified in advance and I understand that this was not done.

Apparently, the Commission is in talks with the UK and Jersey on these changes.

That said, a lot of this will blow over at, ooh, about one minute past ten tonight...

Strangely enough, earlier this week...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-57068658

Quote:

Jersey has granted French fishermen more time to meet its new rules in a bid to solve a fishing licence dispute.

The extension until 1 July is a sign of "good faith" that the row over France's post-Brexit rights can be solved, the Government of Jersey said.

French authorities in Normandy have also lifted a ban on Jersey fishermen landing their catches in its ports.

Why don't the French use this? :D

Sephiroth

13-05-2021 14:54

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

1. By derogation from Articles FISH.8(1) and (3) to (7) [Access to waters], FISH.9 [Compensatory measures in case of withdrawal or reduction of access] and Annex FISH.4 [Protocol on access to waters], each Party shall grant vessels of the other Party access to fish in its waters reflecting the actual extent and nature of fishing activity that it can be demonstrated was carried out during the period beginning on 1 February 2017 and ending on 31 January 2020 by qualifying vessels of the other Party in the waters and under any treaty arrangements that existed on 31 January 2020.

Quote:

"qualifying vessel" means, in respect of fishing activity carried out in waters adjacent to the Bailiwick of Guernsey, the Bailiwick of Jersey, the Isle of Man or a Member State, any vessel which fished in the territorial sea adjacent to that territory or that Member State on more than 10 days in any of the three 12 month periods ending on 31 January on, or between, 1 February 2017 and 31 January 2020;

For certain, the "qualifying vessels" were licensed in according with the Agreement's requirements, "demonstration" being key to what has actually transpired.

From my reading, the row about the conditions of the licence hinges on the term "extent and nature". The Agreement is otherwise silent on the conditions (unless thare is something about allocation of stocks that would take the rest of my life to fathom in the Agreement).

Seems to me that the French fishermen don't like the effects of Brexit. Sod 'em. The EU should have thought of that before creating conditions that drove us out.

Hugh	13-05-2021 15:14

Re: Britain outside the EU

Here it is from the horse’s mouth (the Jersey Government)

http://www.gov.je/News/2021/Pages/FisheriesUpdate.aspx

Quote:

The UK and Jersey have defended Jersey’s new fishing licences for EU vessels. Jersey has indicated its willingness to work with the Commission and French Authorities to resolve the current concerns. Jersey has confirmed that it remains open to considering a range of evidence of a qualifying fishing vessel’s track record, and that it will amend licences if further evidence is provided.

As a sign of good faith, Jersey has offered to give recently licensed French vessels until 1 July 2021 to provide further evidence of their track record. It has been made clear that any outstanding evidence must be provided during this period.

This extension to 1 July applies only to VMS vessels now licensed under the TCA and is not an extension of the previous Bay of Granville amnesty, which provided a general extension for all VMS vessels licensed under that agreement.

The letter also confirms that Jersey is ready to act swiftly to ensure that vessels which submit the required additional evidence to demonstrate their previous fishing record in Jersey waters, will have that reflected in their licence and their activities will not be disrupted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36079355)

I can't see what the French are arguing about in the Jersey licence.
https://www.gov.je/SiteCollectionDoc...0Schedule2.pdf

There's no point in providing a selective quote as there's nothing to compare it with.

The EU/UK Cooperation agreement says the following on page 274 (my emphasis):
https://ec.europa.eu/transparency/re...X-1-PART-1.PDF

For certain, the "qualifying vessels" were licensed in according with the Agreement's requirements, "demonstration" being key to what has actually transpired.

From my reading, the row about the conditions of the licence hinges on the term "extent and nature". The Agreement is otherwise silent on the conditions (unless thare is something about allocation of stocks that would take the rest of my life to fathom in the Agreement).

Seems to me that the French fishermen don't like the effects of Brexit. Sod 'em. The EU should have thought of that before creating conditions that drove us out.

Excellent passive-aggressiveness there - we didn’t want to leave, they made us do it… ;)

Sephiroth

13-05-2021 15:48

Re: Britain outside the EU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36079356)

Here it is from the horse’s mouth (the Jersey Government)

http://www.gov.je/News/2021/Pages/FisheriesUpdate.aspx

Excellent passive-aggressiveness there - we didn’t want to leave, they made us do it… ;)

Trust you to pick on the emotional argument. But, of course, your interpretation is ridiculously flawed.

The EU had become something that the UK rejected by majority in the Referendum. That drove us out. Sod 'em.

jonbxx

13-05-2021 16:03

Re: Britain outside the EU

Who didn't see the 'Brexit is the fault of the EU' argument coming? I thought Brexit was the route to the land of opportunity and people voted leave for a brighter future, not because French people were nasty to them.

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