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Interesting report from Farmers Weekly who had a lot of members that were very keen on Brexit from what I remember:
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A straightforward analysis says we have been sold a pup. |
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No government is going to make an economic success out of Brexit it’s a poisoned chalice. Tories,Labour not even if the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster were to somehow get elected. Off topic: would you like me to touch you with my noodly appendage ? |
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I don't know if it will be any better in another 6 years, who knows what the geopolitico landscape will be then, 10years after. But 4 years is too soon, especially after the economic hit of COVID and Ukraine to make any sensible evaluation. |
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10 years to realise the benefits of Brexit is a bit late for my 18 year kid who wanted to get a summer job in Spain to reinforce her Spanish A-level she will have finished by then. It seems virtually impossible to get hotel animation jobs without an EU passport unfortunately.
It’s a shame as she was really enthusiastic about doing this before university and it would have been a great experience but there you go. She can enjoy some sovereignty instead |
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In reality it has to work within these parameters and there’s no evidence that it does. If anything, it hinders rather than assists economic recovery by killing it in red tape and trade barriers. That’s not to say it can’t work - but if the politicians are utterly devoid of ideas to make it work in the short term what makes you think they have any meaningful insight for the medium and long term? We’ve got a virtual Berlin Wall to keep us in and nothing to keep migrants out. |
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So Russia invading Ukraine(a war) is the result of Brexit. Please explain. |
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At no point did I say Russia invading Ukraine was a result of Brexit. I merely pointed out that political and economic crises are a reality of Government. Off the top of my head since the Falklands you’d have the Gulf War, Bosnia, NATO air strikes on Serbia, September 11th, Afghanistan, Iraq 2 and the 2008 financial crisis and a decade of austerity. The idea of a 7 or 10 year period “breathing space” without one crisis or another is an absolute fantasy. It’s the role of Government to manage these things. ---------- Post added at 21:14 ---------- Previous post was at 21:10 ---------- Quote:
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I also noted your acid remark, justifiable imo, that your daughter should stay in the UK and enjoy her sovereignty. I can't say much more than that in response. |
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Unlike the EU and the US, UK GDP per head has fallen since 2019. I wonder why?
Lest anyone tries to clutch at the Covid and Ukraine straws. The US and EU were impacted by those as well. https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...8&d=1708105281 |
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Tradition has it that the parents/grand parents in society did all they could to enable the success and prosperity of their children/grandchildren. What we had was the exact opposite of this. The Boomer and some Gen X decided that they know best and the wishes & aspirations of those that would follow them would count for nothing. A perverse & selfish decision if you will. As these older generations die off, they bequeath a poisoned unwanted legacy. Made all the more perverse in that these very people will expected to be looked after in their dotage by those they spited. |
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Nobody is entitled to anything on the basis of money that wasn't paid in. It's a complete lie on the part of the older generations to pretend otherwise. 2.5 trillion pounds of debt. Someone wasn't paying. |
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BB + GenX is basically anyone over 44. |
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Some have pensions sufficiently high for tax to continue being paid. |
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The average person retiring at 66, and living to 81 (UK life expectancy), will take £166,000 back out in state pension. Or about 5 times the average salary. The average earner pays £2,000 a year in national insurance. Or through their working life to "pay in" £90,000-100k even if we pretended that such a side pot did exist. The whole thing is a ponzi scheme - only without more people to pay in (by having kids, or migration) it's inevitably going to collapse. The only question is which generations that burden falls to. And we haven't even touched social care. |
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But it was away from the point of addressing Ian's spitefulness towards older people. They should not be slagged off like that. |
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The intention wasn't to make that the comparison, I was just using the "average" throughout and it seemed a reasonable way to provide context for the average salary (£33k).
Although I can see why the presentation did. |
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And don't older people have the same rights as everyone else - a fact implicitly deprecated by Ian. |
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Here's a good analysis of the position I am outlining: How baby boomers became the most selfish generation Quote:
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What I said was very accurate: the majority of 50/60/70/80+ voters wilfully denying the very obvious wishes of their children/grandchildren is not a good look. ---------- Post added at 14:45 ---------- Previous post was at 14:40 ---------- Quote:
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Your fundamental position seems to be that older people should have sacrificed their view to that of the young people. That is not what life (and democracy) is about. The younger people haven't given a thought to Brussels making our over-arching laws. And before you bleat about the older people not being wise enough to foresee the current situation, I point out that they certainly understand the long game. Quote:
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You are too bitter to see things in the right proportions. |
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You inferred it was implied - perhaps projection?
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If democracy is this hotbed of cutthroat self interest, old people can’t complain if young people overturn their decision, and indeed vote against the interests of “older people” at the soonest opportunity (if they so wish). To retain bad decisions and flawed economics out of “respect” would run counter to your overarching view. |
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It is the spite deployed by Ian that matters most to me in the Forum context. |
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The irony here is that a considerable number of the generation I am citing have defined benefit or final salary pensions and, as a result, are in far better financial position than the generations that followed. |
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I think Ian has a point to a degree a percentage of those who have lived a significant period of their lives have made a decision that will significantly those who have many many more years to live. https://www.statista.com/statistics/...-votes-by-age/ |
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I am surprised by the number of snowflakes (I think that is the correct term to use on this forum) that are offending by contrary opinions. It is the sort of thing forums do or am I missing something?
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A. Being able to afford to buy a house B. Being in a place where good quality affordable social housing was available |
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I think what we've learned here is it's OK to have a strong opinion about something (anything) as long as it typed in blue.
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Btw, the younger generation are not strong on politics and history and did not know how Germany rigged the Euro and how France rigged the farming regulations. ---------- Post added at 20:20 ---------- Previous post was at 20:18 ---------- Quote:
It seems now also, certain Remainers. |
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I’ve worked, and am working, to do the exact opposite, i’m working to give my kids a better start than i had. As do all parents. If you think the way you do, I can only assume you have no children. |
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Or that the grifters informed them there would no downsides, only upsides. ---------- Post added at 21:10 ---------- Previous post was at 21:04 ---------- Quote:
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Ian hates Brexit, dislikes people who voted for it and he suggests that they might have voted differently had they used Google. There it is folks. |
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What it has been is a unmitigated disaster for this country. The seven years since have proved that unequivocally. |
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I think that if you are going to change the country you live in, you should do at least a little research first. Seems fair to me. You think the opposite. |
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Btw, have you ever directly answered the question (which I'm now putting) as to whether or not you approve of a single country, Europe, with overarching law coming from Brussels? ---------- Post added at 11:13 ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 ---------- Quote:
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There was aleays going to be a period of business adjustment in the various sectors. Our government failed to make the UK attractive to investors through incentives. |
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There was an opportunity after the Brexit vote to engage all parties and reach some kind of consensus on the way forward following the result. I feel that this opportunity was not really taken. Saying ‘you lost, get over it’ is not constructive. Insinuating that people who didn’t want to leave the EU were tantamount to traitors who hated the UK is pretty insulting.
I voted remain but I accept the result. Do I think leaving is a bad idea now? Very much so. Do I think the reality of what we have now matched the promises of the Leave campaign? Definitely not. As is often the case, political dogma does not last long when reality hits |
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Instead, fearful of Farage, under Johnson and his Covid-busting chums we got the divisive rhetoric of we won, you lost, get over it, the only true Brexit is a hard Brexit. The government's been throwing subsidies to business that would make even Tony Benn blush. Money is not the answer and the Northern Ireland protocol limits what we can do anyway. Instead, Britain needs to be more productive to make it worthwhile to invest here. Brexit red tape worsens UK productivity and the government is introducing yet more of it from April. Hence why Tesla and BYD ruled out the UK as a car factory site. |
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You need to drop the pearl clutching faux outage and just accept the facts as they stand. You, and others, turn a specific point into a generic attack and then kick off on some pretend offence. You need to grow up. |
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1. Leave won the Brexit referendum. 2. The UK has exited the EU. 3. The government has incompetently handled the economy since then. Your generic attacks on Brexit are worthless. |
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The deal we negotiated was a hard Brexit that did not represent the country's feeling. It's not just about the spectrum of views of the 52% it's about the 100%. Norway had a similar outcome so decided not to join the EU but went for the very close relationship instead. I'm not saying we should have copied Norway but finding something that was more representative of the desire of the UK population as a whole and not of the more extreme right wing of the Conservative Party would have been beneficial. As it is, we'll move that way over time but at a higher economic cost than being there in the first place. https://www.norway.no/en/missions/eu...ical-overview/ |
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I don't believe that for one moment. A breach by the UK of the NI agreement (NIA) was an entirely confected argument. Article 50 didn't stop us from leaving the EU - in other words it was notwithstanding the NIA. Had we walked away from the EU, closing the border with Eire would have ben an act of the EU, who were not a party to the NIA except possibly by association with Eire. This onus is what frightened the hell out of Varadkar and we caved. |
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Are you talking about the Northern Ireland Protocol or the Good Friday Agreement?
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The EU, having competence over things like customs and standards (again, with the agreement of the nation state of Ireland) paid due regard to Irelands position as a signator of the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement, hence the fudge of the Northern Ireland protocol agreed by all parties |
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The EU would have forced Eire to apply a border had we walked away. |
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No trap - they are two separate things, and I’m not sure which you are referring to… |
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Luckily it didn’t come to it but Ireland had a stark choice - leaving the EU or risking the peace process in the North. I am not 100% convinced that peace in another country trumps EU membership. Any Irish politician suggesting leaving the EU wouldn’t be around that long |
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The revisionists would have you believe there was a consensus for a hard Brexit but there was not. There was a consensus for nothing. "Leave the EU" was a smorgasbord of political options, a pick & mix if you will. What was definitive was the prediction of economic suicide which played out as predicted. Imposing economic sanctions on yourself is not a good option given the proximity of your major trading partner and the intricacies of global trade. |
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https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres.../speech_24_564 A selected paragraph from the 2024 WDL speech follows. Quote:
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https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres...speech_19_4230 Selected paragraphs (and VDL's bold text, not mine): Quote:
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Of course the European Commission can propose ever closer union as much as it likes but it has no direct power to do this. Except in very limited technical areas, legislation would require the consent of the Parliament and Council. There would possibly be a need to update the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union which is a huge deal.
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Oh and don’t forget the thankless work of COREPER I and II who represent the nation states at committee level |
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We look like them but don't think like them. ---------- Post added at 17:45 ---------- Previous post was at 17:37 ---------- Quote:
That's your best shot? A definition of "inaugural" as distinct from the VDL words that prove my point? |
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Are you trying to say that Danes think like Italians, and the Spanish think like Germans, and the Portuguese think like the Irish? |
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