Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

”reach" does not equal usage/viewing...

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

The thing is I’m not saying streaming isn’t popular, or won’t continue to be popular. I subscribe to THREE streaming services myself.

I’m just framing it’s place alongside the other delivery models.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Maybe so, but if it's there and available then i'd suggest that people will start using it.

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Alongside everything else... Yes. Virtually every Sky/Virgin customer has a PVR. They still watch live TV despite having no good reason to.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Do they? The only live tv that i watch is sport, and mainly football, no one in our house watches live tv (apart from sport ) at the scheduled times, it's all watched by catch up, in fact, I hardly know anyone who sits down to watch a show at the advertised time. Much more convenient to watch it when it suits you.

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I think i agree with you i only lasted 13mins before i had had enough! Now in search of something else to watch!

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I agree it’s more convenient, but BARB figures show live TV viewing still happens on some level across the range of both free and subscription channels.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Unless viewers choose to watch what they want instead of what the schedulers want you to watch!

I do agree with you that it is not as straight forward as saying 'That line is pointing up and the other one down, so we will just continue to project those lines in a linear fashion'. That is precisely why I have said it is not as easy as that, and therefore fixing a date for the last channel going off air is pointless. A lot may happen to skew current projections.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Viewers can choose to watch what they want, when they want, now. Many don't, and still work around the schedule to a greater or lesser extent. It makes it easier to speak to people in the real world (I know, it's weird) in office scenarios if everyone is at the same point.

"Ah, have you seen series 2 episode 5 of..."
"Nah I'm only on episode 4"

Doesn't have the same ring to it as

"Did you see last night's..."
"Yeah it was amazing... Didn't see that ending coming"

Some people like being at the same point as everyone else to have conversations, interact with social media, etc.

Even the taboid press, morning TV shows, and websites want you to be at roughly the same spot.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

So they just go on to talk about something else then, surely you are not suggesting that the conversation just ends because they're not at the same viewing point of a tv show!

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No, not at all. However television exists as a topic of discussion, see millions of threads on thousands of internet forums. Something has to dictate the pace to facilitate this effectively.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Comcast-Owned Sky Invests In British Natural History Producer True To Nature

https://deadline.com/2019/08/comcast...re-1202663201/

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Don’t you mean “dead on their feet Comcast’s wholly owned but fledgling subsidiary Sky invests in little known content provider due to all the decent content being kept by mammoth streaming firms?” ;)

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Hardly a justification!

And, no, you cannot see what you want, when you want on scheduled TV. You can only watch one episode per week generally speaking, and if you miss the series for any reason, you have to wait for it to be repeated before you can catch up.

With streaming services, once it is there, it is there, to watch one at a time or binge the whole series as you prefer.

This water cooler chat stuff - my God!

---------- Post added at 07:59 ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 ----------

And for that reason, people will always view their favourite programmes on scheduled TV. Really? Who thinks like that?

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The vast majority l would envisage...

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Are you denying that TV forms part of human interaction? Your ability to ignore reality continues to astound.

While scheduled TV, in its own right, doesn't allow you to watch what you want when you want the availability of PVR/On demand services mean the viewers can.

Yet they don't do it in the way you expect Old Boy.

Netflix have done the one episode a week trick with some series as well, I think you will find.

---------- Post added at 09:12 ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 ----------

At the rate spoilers creep around the internet and in day to day conversation I always watch "must see" programming like Game of Thrones as close to broadcast as possible (and without the ads).

For Line of Duty, partly due to convenient timing, it was almost always the live broadcast. Why wait til the next day because I have an inherent unexplainable preference to stream it?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Game of Thrones creators ditch HBO for Netflix in big-money deal.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-r...-benioff-weiss

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A big roll of the dice considering its precarious situation. Still, as long as the shareholders sell before the crash they'll be fine.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

The Pluto tv app on Amazon devices is really good for a freebie - well worth trying out.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Overview of what Pluto offers...

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...t-is-pluto-tv/

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

There are Pluto channels on the My5 app these days (not all of them, to be clear), now they have the same parent company, and I read there are My5 ones on Pluto too now as of very recently.

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UK version is at https://www.eu-landing.corp.pluto.tv/channels

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Announced the other morning on BBC1 News.

Almost half of households have access to at least 1 stream provider.

However, 66% of all programmes watched are via linear channels.

Conclusion, people are dabbling with streamers but continue to watch 2/3 of their tv on linear channels.

Hardly the death of linear channels at present.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Correct as most tend to have streaming as a add on to their normal TV viewing.

---------- Post added at 17:30 ---------- Previous post was at 17:29 ----------

And unlikely to change well into the future.

---------- Post added at 17:32 ---------- Previous post was at 17:30 ----------

Correct..

And that will remain the case as the streaming boom flatlines.

---------- Post added at 17:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:32 ----------

Not a chance of it...

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

There are probably numerous reasons why some people prefer to stream/catch up a show, workers on different shifts spring to mind, we ain't all slaves to the tv schedules!

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I’m not saying everyone will. Of course, having broadcast, on demand/streaming options and a PVR gives maximum flexibility. :)

In my example 9pm Sunday is convenient timing.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Nobody has said anywhere that linear channels will die off right now. If you look at the trends in viewing streaming, which is increasing fast, and viewing traditional channels, which is reducing rapidly, you can see where this is leading. But the whole process is likely to take more than a decade.

---------- Post added at 19:12 ---------- Previous post was at 19:09 ----------

Look at the trend, Den, and tell me why you think this is insignificant. The truth is, people are turning to streaming in big numbers while traditional channels are in decline. You cannot, with any credibility, ignore that.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

You’re not really one to throw the credibility accusation around Old Boy.

You’ve not demonstrated how streaming gets to 100%, or at least so high linear ceases to be viable (bearing in mind it’s the content that costs money, not the broadcast itself).

People who “turn to streaming” still watch linear television. In their droves. People with the technology to abandon linear still watch it. If PVRs can’t kill linear, why will streaming?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I think most other companies would die for Netflix's "precarious" situation of having over 151m customers.

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I don't think they'd die for the debt. Maybe with it though.

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You are full of quotes about economics, but the reality is 151 million customers, i'm sure the big business guys know a wee bit more than you do about how to run their business!

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

This was a giant in its day but father time decided to call on it so never say it won't happen because things do happen as history shows us that it can happen..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockbuster_LLC

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I’m sure the guys at Enron knew more than me too.

151 million customers is a lot, but they’re low value, highly price elastic customers. It’s a low cost add on for many. As Old Boy is always keen to point out many big players are about to enter this space and Netflix capability to withstand this is entirely untested.

With $20bn of debt, or about three years of revenue alone, I’d not be hugely enthusiastic at the minute and the recent dip in their share price reflects lower confidence among investors.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Loads of companies have debt. AT&T has tons of it, but like Netflix, has the revenues to service that debt otherwise the markets wouldn't lend.

We've discussed this before, the critical point for the company is probably in around two years time when they start pivoting away from pumping money into content and start to balance their books. At the moment, that debt is helping to fund more content which in turn is helping to fund growth and there is no sign, yet, that growth is slowing, at least internationally.

---------- Post added at 21:40 ---------- Previous post was at 21:32 ----------

The whole market was down and may go down more, substantially more, but that is short term.

On low value customers, they're about to get more! They're launching a mobile only tier in India for a few dollars, so that's very low value. But add up how many Indian mobile customers there are.... the pennies add up.

On other streamers, again been through this all before. As far as internationally, most of these services won't be launching for at least a year and then it will take at least another year before we see what kind of impact, if any, the new streamers have on Netflix. At that time Netflix will likely then have 200m+ customers.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Impact “if any”? I think given how this content is supposed to revolutionise the market it’s impossible to say it’ll have no impact on Netflix.

Only Disney and others will have a major benefit of their own huge back catalogues at their disposal. Content owners can field at a price point that doesn’t have to service $20bn of debt as well.

Even if the technology works, Netflix fundamentally doesn’t in the long term. Optimistic growth forecasts will go unrealised and how to monetise a customer base who don’t particularly value your product anyway will be a massive challenge.

Even if it’s two years before the squeeze - Netflix are still going to be under a huge mountain of debt as they increase their costs due to the competition threat.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Ok. I get it that you think Netflix's future is dire. Somewhere earlier in this thread, that was my opinion too, but their customers and share price kept rising and that changed my opinion. When/if the facts change, so will my opinion. So for now, I disagree with you that their growth forecasts will go unrealised. That has not been the case up to now and I don't think it will be for years to come.

To use Netflix's own quote, "we have to become HBO faster than HBO can become us," and that is exactly what Netflix is doing. Of course Disney (and the others) has an inbuilt advantage. It owns 30-40% of all Hollywood content and why is that? Why did Murdoch sell off to Disney? It was because of Netflix and the fact that they've turned an entire industry upside down.

None of us will know what will happen in the next few years, perhaps Netflix will collapse, perhaps they'll stay king. Perhaps they'll be bought out by someone like Apple, or perhaps they'll be the buyer of someone like Lionsgate, but with a still growing customer base, it will take Disney and others many years to catch them and thus I think predictions of Netflix's demise are premature.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

How would a PVR ever kill it ? You need the broadcast for the PVR to be able to record it - kill the broadcast and your PVR is just a large paper weight.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

However the viewer doesn’t have to work to the schedule. They can series link, binge, timeshift, use catch up and on demand until their heart is content.

The evidence suggests people use all different types of consuming content - and I don’t see why that won’t continue.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Very good post.....:tu:

---------- Post added at 22:53 ---------- Previous post was at 22:52 ----------

That's exactly what you have been saying about streaming, Den!

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

He leaves out who was responsible for the death of Blockbuster in the first place.... :)

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Of course they do.
You could not record something until it was actually broadcast, which relies on the schedule.
PVRs will never kill scheduled broadcasts, and were never designed to (rather obviously really).

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Well l thought l would leave that to the great and the good on here to work that one out.;)

---------- Post added at 05:22 ---------- Previous post was at 05:10 ----------

If you have read my posts MM ;) my points have always been that the greatly predicted complete takeover of peoples viewing by streaming companies by some on here was a figment of their great imagination and that broadcast linear TV viewing was always going to remain for many the main outlet of their TV viewing.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

The difference between Netflix and it's competitors are the fact Netflix is a one trick pony , all it's competitors have other business units with which to monetise its investment in content with things like retail stores , theme parks plus much more.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

And one trick ponies inevitably get found out sooner rather then later...

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I'm enjoying on netflix. Using netflix app in my mobile. I'm watching Four Weddings and a Funeral.
Just awesome movie.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

To the end user they can watch what they want, when they want (subject to it being broadcast). I don't see how that's any different from watching what they want, when they want, subject to it being uploaded by the streamer.

It's another form of delivery, that is all.

Of course it couldn't kill off broadcast television (in my view nothing will in the medium to long term) but the flexibility to the viewer is fundamentally the same.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I think you have a mental block with this. Once a programme is broadcast, it's lost if you haven't recorded it. Whereas once a programme is on Netflix, it's there for a long time and you can see every programme in the series.

A lot of people don't have recorders, and even those that do fail to record much. Those that do can run out of space and it can be a constant juggle to ensure there is room left for new stuff coming through.

Streaming does not require recording space and all the programmes you identify as worth watching are just there, waiting to be viewed.

Having to record everything in advance is just a pain, and the sooner everything is there on demand, the better, as far as I am concerned.

To be talking about the end of Netfix when it is the most popular streamer in the world is your fantasy.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Popular doesn't equal profit, or a business model Old Boy. I thought you'd have known that by now.

Far from me having the mental block it is you. People continue to watch live TV (and adverts) despite having the technology at their fingertips to never have to do such a thing ever again.

If it isn't important to see things "live" or "near live" they could save up entire series and binge watch at their leisure. On demand, an excellent example of where viewers can presently deviate from linear, further increases the flexibility around this.

Yet people continue to watch live TV as part of the mix. I ask again, what makes streaming so special as a delivery model to achieve what PVRs and On Demand cannot?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

God you 2 are like a broken record, we get it you both disagree with each other and that will never change.

My watching habits are, even though i have a V6 99.99% of my viewing is done via streaming, on Kodi or Amazon Prime.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Disney in particular is a well rounded media company which is why I like them so much, so agree these are fair points, but...

Perhaps, unless they become thoroughbred stallions faster and better than anyone else.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

You could say that about half the threads on here SnoopZ.;)

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Popular gets subscribers, so popular does equal profit. Of course people are still viewing scheduled tv - I never said they were not. What I am saying is that the trend is pointing very much towards what I have been saying will happen for some time now.

Scheduled TV is restrictive. It is nothing like as convenient as on demand viewing. However, I get that you are happy with the status quo.

---------- Post added at 12:38 ---------- Previous post was at 12:37 ----------

And your responses are just as predictable, Den!:D

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

They are only so many that become the thoroughbred stallions of this world like your Dubawi's and Galileo's and their prices are very premium indeed.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

From mid-August Now TV is joining Tesco Club Card as one of their reward partners. Your club card vouchers will be worth triple the value in Now TV credit.

Nice little perk if you are a Tesco club card user.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Popular doesn't equal profit. The free newspapers handed out in train stations are popular. Ask the public to spend 50p and see who goes out their way to buy it.

I don't know why you insist on personalising it that "I prefer the status quo. I'm an utter irrelevance and macroeconomic level. I'm asking you to demonstrate how the market substantially shifts and you cannot.

---------- Post added at 13:04 ---------- Previous post was at 13:04 ----------

In fairness if Old Boy starts seven threads on the same thing what can you do?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Carry on arguing or just ignore. Your choice.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

If I ignore then I'm tacitly approving of the spread of misinformation on the internet. I couldn't possibly do that.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

You may wish to inform Uber of that... ;)

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

In other words based on opinion it goes on and on and on! lol

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Forums from my experiences are about opinions , debate and advice and always have been.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Yes they're but there are a few on here including yourself that go on and on and on... ;)

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

You could use the ignore button?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

l am honoured by your compliments SnoopZ.:D

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

You're very welcome and someone gave me rep suggesting you guys need a bigger record. :D

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Anyway back to Netlix and a interesting article here about them.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/netf...ion-fatigue-uk

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

The subscription ceiling is quite apt to be honest. With economic data today indicating we are very likely heading towards a technical recession how well/badly does the whole market hold up?

In 2008 pay-tv did well, arguably benefitting from lower cost ADSL broadband from LLU operators moving in (the “whole package” was coming down in price for many).

There’s no windfall in waiting now.

Do people ditch their bread and butter premium Sky subscription with premier league football or do they ditch their nice little add on of Friends box sets? ;)

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Whereas I have 2 V6 boxes, I rarely watch things live. Preferring to watch when I want to - sounds like I am an obvious target for streaming - however I have never watched a streamed program in my life.

Each to his/her own.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

You should try it some time, I just watched a series called 'The Boys' on Amazon Prime in only 2 days, imagine having to wait 10 weeks to watch all that, also great not having to skip commercials.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Well, no, you are not. You could maintain a dignified silence.

I don't know what 'misinformation' you are referring to. If you are saying that the decline in viewing traditional channels and the increase in numbers subscribing to VOD services is incorrect, please say so. And if you can support your statements with links proving that to be wrong, please do so.

As I see it, you just disagree with everything that shows the way this is all going without providing a shred of evidence to support your views.

We all get that you want things to stay the same. But you are completely incapable of recognising the evidence that shows otherwise.

Prove me wrong, if you can..

---------- Post added at 00:57 ---------- Previous post was at 00:53 ----------

Maybe you should try it, to see how easy and convenient it is.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

At no point have I ever suggested linear viewing is not declining. This is, once again, your classic straw man you put up where you argue against a point I didn’t actually make. The dispute is if it levels off before zero.

However, it’s a huge leap to get from where we are now to 100% of all viewing which is your flawed yet persistent message across multiple threads on this, and other, forums. Streamers are dealing with the low hanging fruit - existing pay-tv customers who are willing to pay slightly more and those that can’t afford/don’t see value in traditional subscriptions. Netflix are already between the rock and hard place of slowing growth and price rises.

The average viewer doesn’t feel as strongly as you do about delivery methods and this backed up by statistics released just the other day. People continue to watch linear regardless of how irrational you perceive it to be.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Don't have access to Amazon prime (or any other stream for that matter) so unlikely to happen.

Might try it in December (using the free month offer) - assuming they don't want a card to pay for further subs which I have no intention of taking up.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Take up the free trials of streaming services then cancel, but it sounds like you have no intention of wanting to see how great advert free streaming is.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

He's got a V6. If he never wanted to watch an advert ever again he could.

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Absolutely spot on, OB

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Absolute nonsense.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

You come across as a knowall, at least OB is supplying links from various sources which suggest he isn't too far off the mark as regards streaming, you haven't produced anything of note to suggest otherwise!

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Thanks, Max.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Various sources that are fundamentally opinion pieces. I linked only last week at how linear remains the most popular viewing type in the UK, despite the vast, vast majority of homes never having to view television in this way if they choose to not.

I'm not sure how you suggest I come across as a know-all. If Old Boy makes a claim he should be able to back it up, all too often it is the case that he cannot and instead links to opinion pieces from digital marketing companies.

Fundamentally people want to watch content and care little for the delivery model. It's a radical transition for the low cost streamers to take the step up - indeed as I've often pointed out Amazon made no meaningful bids in the first round of Premier League rights last time around.

Anyone being objective, rather than having a blinkered fundamentalist view in favour of one delivery model, would see that viewers enjoy the vast range of options available now.

If I modelled iPhone sales in their first five years and that rate of growth was sustainable every single person on the planet would have bought an iPhone in the year 2017. They didn't. Growth reached a plateau.

Another straw man. I subscribe to two streaming services and watch minimal television as scheduled. But hey, it's easier to misrepresent my argument and personalise it than realise you're talking about the economic behaviour of 27 million homes in this country and hundreds of millions across the globe. :)

It's not the conclusion of the 'industry' at all. You've got the BBC 'planning' to do one thing, whether that is realisable on the back of consumer behaviour is another.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Oh come on you know what i meant. :dunce:

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Why, because I disagree with you and provide links to support my views?

You just disagree for the sake of it. I really wonder if it is worth responding to your posts, you just misrepresent everything your detractors say.

I don't mind if people disagree with my views, that is their right. But to simply respond that you know about economics so you must be right is unconvincing without supporting evidence and a good argument.

Until the bitter end, people like you probably will stick with the scheduled channels, but you ignore the fact that this will not be worthwhile for the broadcasters when the audience levels make it all unviable.

It is only time that will prove me right on this, which I am sure it will (and it is also the conclusion of the media industry) so maybe I should just let you prattle on and the rest of us will draw oir own conclusions.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Who's to say that they wont in the future?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

The twaddle you come out with! Of course I provide links, which is more than you do. You are trapped in a time warp and appear totally incapable of separating the present from the future.

Mind you, you're not the only one! :D

---------- Post added at 19:13 ---------- Previous post was at 19:11 ----------

Precisely. They have to start somewhere.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Besides, even the media companies themselves don't know how things will play out over the next few years, but at least it gives us something to talk about, as media has been pretty static until the rise of Netflix.

As I see things currently, with the (old) media companies, it's still business as usual apart from they're all trying to get bigger. They don't seem to understand how to "do" streaming yet.

Netflix has shown them how to "do" streaming, so my assumption was everyone else was going to copy them. I assumed wrong. All the old media cos are trying to replicate in the streaming world what they've always had, which is mulitple services, mulitple prices and a whole spaghetti western of third party licensing deals. Weren't we meant to be in a new age of doing things?

They shouldn't all be launching mulitple streamers each, but they are. They also should be keeping all their own new content on their own services, but it looks like in many cases, that won't be the case either. A good example is the Jack Ryan series. It's been great for Amazon, but its made by Viacom. It should be on Viacom's service.

CBS and Viacom will likely announce their re-merger on Monday (or soon afterwards) and then find someone else to join up with, so the original Hollywood Big 6 companies will probably be no more than four in the end, but they still don't seem to understand how Netflix has changed their industry or what they need to do to adapt to the new reality.

So, until they figure it out, I think we're quite entitled to debate the ins and outs of it too because no one can predict what will happen over the next few years, but we can all take take a good guess though. :)

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

No actually, I don't.

If streaming content doesn't appeal that's a problem for the streamer - not the viewer. Trying to apply arguments in favour, that are fundamentally incorrect, isn't helpful to the debate.

---------- Post added at 18:17 ---------- Previous post was at 18:14 ----------

You have now resorted to baseless insults.

I don't know how in any capitalist system challenging you to justify your arguments based on economics and consumer behaviour is flawed.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

You did indeed, but I don't see how that is pertinent to 2035. We are not in dispute about what is happening now. Linear TV reducing rapidly, on demand viewing increasing rapidly....

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

They probably want to find out how to do it without $20bn of debt though.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

What about justifying yours?

---------- Post added at 19:21 ---------- Previous post was at 19:20 ----------

You just cannot see beyond that, can you?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Yes, and as I said above if you applied that logic to iPhone sales 2007-11 every single person on the planet would have bought one in 2017.

That's not how consumer behaviour works in practice.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Ah, back to that old chestnut again.;)

As said before, they're testing the waters and if the waters are warm, I think they'll jump in, but we won't know for a couple of years until various rights come up for renewal. As an aside, I noticed Amazon has yet another Twitter account:

https://twitter.com/primevideosport?lang=en-gb

I think Amazon will get very serious about sports, but we'll see.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Except that I didn't.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

I fail to see how that is not pertinent - you yourself see a glorious future of multiple streaming options, consumers opting in for a month at a time, binging on content and moving on.

$20bn is a lot of £8.99s a month. Especially when they're having to heavily increase their spend on content due to the studios planning their own options and keeping their own content.

You portray this as a threat to Sky, but bizarrely not Netflix?

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

As you know full well, the old media cos don't need to fuel their growth with debt, because they have massive archives of content that they can monetise in the streaming world.

Netflix doesn't have that option.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

It's hardly an 'old chestnut'. Funding £5bn of rights and making a profit on it is a challenging task for anyone.

If you're the biggest retail company in the world that being the most effective use of £5bn in terms of a return on investment is another question altogether.

---------- Post added at 18:27 ---------- Previous post was at 18:25 ----------

I do know this, which is why the incumbents aren't in as bad a position as some would portray on this forum.

Netflix on the other hand has to pay for it's content and service the debt. A higher price point than similar services will leave it a soft target in the market.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

On the maths, you work out what 151 million customers paying $10 is worth. A lot of wonga.

And I just mentioned about the studios keeping their own content and it appears that doesn't look like it will be the case according to recent interviews all the companies have done, apart from perhaps Disney. Viacom/CBS, AT&T and Comcast all seem keen on keeping some third party licensing deals in place, rather bizarrely.

That's a gamble. They get guaranteed revenues, but lose the opportunities to monetise off all their own content. But this may all change when the services actually launch.

Giving Amazon the international rights to the new Star Trek Picard show, seem bonkers to me, but that's exactly what CBS has done.

---------- Post added at 19:40 ---------- Previous post was at 19:33 ----------

Or Apple, with their massive customer base. Or Microsoft, they seem to still have a few customers.

I can't speak for what others may or may not have said, but Netflix are servicing that debt and banks are still happy to give them more. Again, 151 million customers and rising.

Disney + has zero customers because it doesn't exist yet, neither does HBO Max or the others. Netflix has a massive advantage here, can you not see that?? And if Amazon, Apple, Microsoft or even the Chinese (they're starting, Tencent bought some of Universal Music Group the other day) if these companies get serious about streaming whether it be drama or sport or everything, that is a major threat to the incumbents.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Very good post, Horizon.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

YouTube Premium , Apple TV bet the incumbents are worried sick.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

They do need a card, but cancelling is very straightforward. I have no interest in streaming, but I sign up for Prime when I want free next-day delivery.

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Not a chance..

Re: Netflix/Streaming Services
 

Except it isn’t that straightforward. Sales taxes apply to that figure, and it’s not the same price in every country. In Turkey it falls to about £2.50 a month (currency fluctuations apply). Plus there’s the actual operating costs of Netflix itself.

Every company that collapses services debt at some point until there’s a trigger, and creditors pull the plug. Ability to service debt in the short term does not equal ability to do so in the long term. Especially in a competitive market with an easily disposable product.

And presumably a major threat to Netflix, if so?