Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36161019)

You do understand the concept of stopping distances don’t you?

Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36161025)

It's true. Let's do some sums...

I'll use metric to keep it simple, but feel free to convert to whatever units you prefer.

Firstly, 30mph (48km/h). Now I'm sure you're a sensible driver, and always leave a safe gap from the car in front so you can stop if necessary. The Highway Code tells me the typical stopping distance at that speed is 23m. And let's say a typical car is 4m long. So each car at 30mph occupies 27m of road. So each hour, 48000/27 cars can travel along the road. That's 1778 cars per hour.

Now 20mph (32km/h). The stopping distance is 12m, and cars are still 4m long, so each car occupies 16m of road. Each hour, 32000/16 cars pass. That's 2000 cars per hour.

So by reducing speed from 30 to 20mph, you've managed to get 12% more traffic down the same road.

Originally Posted by Pierre (Post 36161035)

In modern cars at 20mph the stopping distance is about 10cm, ( joking, but it’s very small) my vehicle even stops for me, taking out the feeble human reaction time.


20mph zones are bollocks, any one that supports them are sub-normal on all levels.

Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36161025)

It's true. Let's do some sums...

I'll use metric to keep it simple, but feel free to convert to whatever units you prefer.

Firstly, 30mph (48km/h). Now I'm sure you're a sensible driver, and always leave a safe gap from the car in front so you can stop if necessary. The Highway Code tells me the typical stopping distance at that speed is 23m. And let's say a typical car is 4m long. So each car at 30mph occupies 27m of road. So each hour, 48000/27 cars can travel along the road. That's 1778 cars per hour.

Now 20mph (32km/h). The stopping distance is 12m, and cars are still 4m long, so each car occupies 16m of road. Each hour, 32000/16 cars pass. That's 2000 cars per hour.

So by reducing speed from 30 to 20mph, you've managed to get 12% more traffic down the same road.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36161034)

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36161038)

The RAC disagree with you

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/l...ing-distances/

20MPH 12 metres (3 car lengths)
30MPH 23 metres (6 car lengths)

Nearly twice the distance

So you think anyone who supports a 20MPH zone outside a school is sub-normal?

Originally Posted by spiderplant (Post 36161025)

Now 20mph (32km/h). The stopping distance is 12m, and cars are still 4m long, so each car occupies 16m of road. Each hour, 32000/16 cars pass. That's 2000 cars per hour.

So by reducing speed from 30 to 20mph, you've managed to get 12% more traffic down the same road.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36161038)

So you think anyone who supports a 20MPH zone outside a school is sub-normal?

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36161040)

How do you make out that relieves congestion? Cars spaced out become cars closer together. Have you thought about how much more difficult that is to cross the road?

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36161047)

:rofl:

Scraping the barrel here now, OB. Much like your favoured political party.

I’m not sure running across roads between cars going 40 is better than cars doing 20.




Straw man alert.

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36161048)

The co parison is between 30 and 20mph. And yes, it is more difficult to cross a road even when cars are travelling slowly where they are bunched up.

As for your last 'point', I don't know how you make out it's a straw man argument. It's a balance of risk.My argument is that it's obvious that the more you reduce speed, the more accidents are prevented and lives saved, but everything we do has a measure of risk. You cannot eliminate it. 20mph on all residential roads is potty, and I think most people know that.

This issue will be Labour's Archilles heal at the next election. And they were doing so well...

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36161047)

:rofl:

Scraping the barrel here now, OB. Much like your favoured political party.

I’m not sure running across roads between cars going 40 is better than cars doing 20.




Straw man alert.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36161051)

:rofl: the word you are looking for is hope.

We will see. It's a last roll of the dice for a Government devoid of ideas.

Thus far all I can see is that the Venn diagram of GB News viewers and people "genuinely interested in the subject" that funnily enough they never raised before 2023 is broadly a circle. That's maybe a fraction of one per cent of the electorate.

A genuinely 'pro-driver' Government would reduce fuel duties and stop using drivers as a cash cow. 30mph vs 20mph in built up areas is neither here nor there. Even the Tories don't think it's a good idea, but like the Liberal Democrats they can say anything now knowing they'll never have to actually do it.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36161054)

Originally Posted by OLD BOY (Post 36161056)

Have you taken note of the public reaction in Wales? If you think blanket 20mph limits are a good idea, I don’t know what is motivating you. Are you even a motorist?

I thought we were trying to clean up the atmosphere. This does the opposite. This blanket limit is causing havoc in Wales. Journeys taking longer, congestion increasing, buses having to rework their timetables and cut services….

Yes, jfman, brilliant idea. You should stand for election one day - you have the ability to argue absolutely anything.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36161047)

:rofl:

Scraping the barrel here now, OB. Much like your favoured political party.

I’m not sure running across roads between cars going 40 is better than cars doing 20.




Straw man alert.

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36161057)

Quite.

However the idea that no-one can cross roads in 20mph zones (but can at 30 or 40) is preposterous. OB knows that, and if the Conservative Party weren't peddling this rubbish he'd be nowhere near the thread.

It also ignores the potential for local authorities to intervene by introducing crossings, or what existing crossings may exist on many roads.[COLOR="Silver"]

Originally Posted by jfman (Post 36161057)

Interestingly, someone did stand for election with this very policy in their manifesto. The Welsh Labour Party!

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36161072)

Boris was a big fan of 20MPH zones - he introduced them as London Mayor.