Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

Well there was the Sharpeville Massacre that I mentioned before and sparked the start of the ANC turning to violence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharpeville_massacre

Other than that it wasn't uncommon for lesser killings to take place. Although they would tend to individual instances. This is an example:

http://www.sahistory.org.za/topic/po...ment-1961-1989

Although it depends what you define as innocent. I define it as anyone who didn't take up violence but still were hit by violence, however most of them including the Sharpeville massacre involved people who were protesting which some on here might not class as innocent.

Botha was found to have ordered the bombing of a church too:

http://content.time.com/time/magazin...,11300,00.html

Besides I think we're all agreed apartheid was a horrific thing we're all glad to see the back of. Even without the violence it was a gross abuse of mankind.


No because apartheid is pretty central to this whole discussion. People are trying to strip the context from Mandela's bombing campaign because it's much worse that way. It's like that post earlier where someone posted that Mandela refused this offer to be released if he 'unconditionally' renounce violence and left out the part where it also involved him shutting up and stop challenging apartheid!

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

That was done during WWII. That can't really be compared to a terrorist act of such scale as the Twin Towers.

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

It wasn't a terrorist act, war had been declared & Germany bombed London first. However, on a scale of destruction it was as devastating as the twin towers. Both incidents bore unacceptable losses. There are also many definitions of the word "Terrorist".

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

Actually the first deliberate bombing of civilian urban areas was committed by us in Berlin and the blitz was the result and with hindsight lucky us, it kept us in the war. Make no mistake Dresden was a war crime, why else did it take so long to commemorate the bomber crews with a memorial, even bloody animals got one before they did and that's scandalous imo it wasn't their fault we were so desperate to impress the Russians and their sacrifice throughout the war should've been acknowledged sooner imo.

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

You are quite right M8, I didn't mention the word deliberate! London was the first city hit by the Germans, albeit non intentional. I don't believe Dresden was a war crime, the Jerries razed Coventry. Dresden was blown to hell (burnt) by superior aircraft & sheer numbers, make no mistake, had Hitler possessed such power, he would have used it to destroy London.

The Bomber crews & various organisations were commemorated late, far too late in my opinion. Many people said Harris was wrong, but hindsight only helps future decisions, & this was, total war.

The Merchant navy, also played a massive role in WW2, were commemorated after Bomber command, again far too late, half the poor buggers were already dead. The Russians paid a terrible price, & its not well known either. I believe Germany got what it deserved, they also paid a terrible price, but I believe when you deliberately start killing civilians, your past the point of no return.

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

Some may have deserved it, most suffered and endured with no more guilt than anyone else, it's always been that way and apartheid.south Africa was no different really, the majority suffered on the ideology of a few.

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

It was interesting watching the news programmes & documentary about Mandela, my wife commented how closely the film followed the facts

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...110100006.html

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2006...es.southafrica

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

South Africa's security services are in for a hard time:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...nelson-mandela

Re: RIP Nelson Mandela
 

Turns out the guy doing the sign language at the memorial was fake.
LOL

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...e-8997486.html

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

Well as does The Telegraph:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/pe...ndela-was-one/

I don't know the context of the BBC Interview but taking a question and making the editorial line of the BBC and the opinion of the interviewer is a bit unfair. He could have been referencing the previous comparisons.

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

Turns out the fake sign language guy is mentally ill and was suffering a schizophrenia attack at the time of signing.

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

Indeed ,and obviously the best place for someone having a schizophrenia episode is a stage full of world leaders :)

Re: Nelson Mandela ,freedom fighter or terrorist
 

I know. can you imagine if he did anything to hurt Dave? :)