Cable Forum - Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

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TheDaddy

14-10-2016 22:35

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees (Post 35863626)

Alas, wouldn't work, people would be screaming that anyone accused of such an offence who are on bail should be named as a public interest to protect potential victims.

People forget we live in an innocent until guilty legal society.

---------- Post added at 16:16 ---------- Previous post was at 16:11 ----------

Just as I think you have hit rock bottom and you cannot come out with anything more stupid you come out with this utter nonsense.

You have to be joking or trolling, no one in their right mind could be so stupid as to think this.

Don't the french have a system of guilty until proven innocent...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scary (Post 35863636)

i think that this woman should be tried as there was gaping holes in her story that's why it was quashed in the first place and why he has been found not guilty.

on the second part i never said that if someone is found not guilty the claimant should go to jail, i said that anyone who makes a false claim should serve time man or woman

Tbf from what I remember she was treated as a hostile witness by the prosecution as she stuck rigidly to not being able to remember anything throughout the trial. I agree with you blatent false accusers should face prosecution but from what I've seen she isn't one of them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35863646)

I still don't see how the jury returned the original verdict..and I guess I never will.

I just hope that he takes the whole matter as a worthwhile learning experience and that other young men(sportsmen or not) take this case to heart and learn that women should be respected no matter what the circumstances.

Funnily enough I remember asking how on earth he was found guilty and was roundly jumped on by certain posters here, rape is rape I was repeatedly and helpfully informed, except in this case where it wasn't and never was. Your last line is worrying, take this case to heart and respect women or we'll throw you in prison for over 2 years and wreck your life it can be interpreted as.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35863676)

He joined Chesterfield in June, and has played 7 games this season (4 goals).

Like Damien said, hopefully he can find a club and continue with his career because I doubt he's earning much more than a few hundred quid a week and these years without earning plus the legal costs won't have been cheap. Hopefully chesterfield will get a transfer fee out of it as well though

weenie

14-10-2016 22:37

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35863646)

I just hope that he takes the whole matter as a worthwhile learning experience and that other young men(sportsmen or not) take this case to heart and learn that women should be respected no matter what the circumstances.

:tu:

Hugh	14-10-2016 22:41

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

People may find this informative - lawyer's interpretation of what the verdict meant, not the tabloids' emotive views.

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2016/...ed-evans-case/

mrmistoffelees

14-10-2016 22:46

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35863699)

Don't the french have a system of guilty until proven innocent...

</snip>

A quick search suggests not

In France, article 9 of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen 1789, which has force as constitutional law, begins: "Any man being presumed innocent until he has been declared guilty ...". The Code of Criminal Procedure states in its preliminary article that "any person suspected or prosecuted is presumed innocent for as long as their guilt has not been established""

Mr Banana

14-10-2016 23:27

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35863702)

People may find this informative - lawyer's interpretation of what the verdict meant, not the tabloids' emotive views.

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2016/...ed-evans-case/

The verdict is the verdict but I can't get my head around his girlfriends actions - one for still being supportive if him after hearing the sordid details of what went on and also the offering of rewards to help in clearing his name?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/lif...bout-high-pro/

"Ched Evans’s girlfriend offered a £50,000 “bribe” to a key witness in his rape trial to help find new evidence to clear him, it can now be reported.

Natasha Massey sent Facebook messages to Gavin Burrough, a receptionist at the Premier Inn near Rhyl.

The 27-year-old wrote: “I’m literally begging ... If you know anything please help me.”

The prosecution described her actions as “akin to bribery”.

Her first message was sent at 12.12pm on May 6 2013.

“There’s a £50,000 reward for any new evidence.

“Do you know anything that could help Ched? X,” she wrote.

Damien

14-10-2016 23:39

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 35863702)

People may find this informative - lawyer's interpretation of what the verdict meant, not the tabloids' emotive views.

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2016/...ed-evans-case/

Worth reading this:

Quote:

No. Absolutely not. A not guilty verdict in most cases is insufficient to safely infer that the jury have concluded that a complainant lied (as opposed to the jury not being sure one way or the other), but in this case the facts suggest the opposite. As the Court of Appeal made clear in its judgment allowing the appeal, X has never asserted that she was raped. She has always simply maintained that she had no memory of what happened. It was the prosecution case – the case theory of the Crown Prosecution Service – that she was raped. The defence case was based not on the “usual” he said/ she said dispute over consent, but rather he said/ she can’t remember. There is absolutely no safe basis for suggesting she has lied, or, to quell the more hysterical calls, that she should be prosecuted on the basis of Evans’ acquittal.

nomadking

15-10-2016 00:18

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35863602)

Also a not guilty verdict is not evidence the accusor was lying.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damien (Post 35863710)

Worth reading this:

On the other hand she went along with the CPS accusation that she had never said or done anything similar before. She had, and the retrial found that way. If he didn't have enough money behind him to investigate things, he wouldn't have been able to bring the case this far. Anybody else would have remained unfairly convicted.

Don't know why the fact that he is a footballer is relevant to the case. What is relevant is that the woman had sex with at least 4 random men whilst too drunk. Only one of the 4 ended up being convicted. Women do go out with the express intention, formed whilst sober, of going out and getting drunk and having sex with a complete stranger. This woman did so on at least 3 separate occasions.

Maggy

15-10-2016 00:23

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35863699)

No it doesn't. It merely means that just because you can doesn't mean you should. Ched Evans and the other defendant were definitely no gentleman..Taking advantage of a drunk is beyond the pale.

---------- Post added at 23:23 ---------- Previous post was at 23:19 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35863713)

FFS! Is that how you really think?

Arthurgray50@blu

15-10-2016 00:26

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

This case proves to me several things.

All the hypocrites who slagged him off. Clubs that were against him, sponsors who withdrew there sponsor ship dosh should be ashamed of themselves.

The case relied mainly on the evidence of the case. I have been on a rape case on a jury.

Rape is a very serious offence. It relies on the evidence put to the court, times, and what is stated by the victim.

The Victim was a willing partner in the first instance with the first player. Then the second player joins in and the victim accepted this.

Its only rape 'at point of entry' and the victim accepted the activity. IF, the victim had said NO, then that is rape.

And also the words that 'were used' l like it 'rough'

The idea that a 'bribe' was used l think is wrong.

I think that most of this case has been hidden from the press. I read some of the of the case on my phone via Sky News.

Rape, should be in the same legal line as Murder. Its a very serious crime. But at the end of the day, it all comes down to the evidence at the time.

I feel for the victim.

---------- Post added at 23:26 ---------- Previous post was at 23:24 ----------

And also, the vitim said that she hadn't taken any drugs, which would hve made her 'docile'. But she said that she hadn't taken drugs, But in urine tests that she had taken. There were traces of drugs in her urine/

Paul	15-10-2016 00:34

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35863714)

FFS! Is that how you really think?

Are you trying to imply he is wrong ? because he's not - some girls/women do that.

nomadking

15-10-2016 00:35

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35863714)

By your definition, the 2 others ALSO took advantage. How many other occasions are there where women have drunken sex with a random bloke? Yet all those are not classed as rape.

techguyone

15-10-2016 00:53

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

Quote:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 35863713)

If he didn't have enough money behind him to investigate things, he wouldn't have been able to bring the case this far. Anybody else would have remained unfairly convicted.

This. Is worrying, guess poor people just have to suck it up.

martyh

15-10-2016 10:37

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J (Post 35863714)

No it doesn't. It merely means that just because you can doesn't mean you should. Ched Evans and the other defendant were definitely no gentleman..Taking advantage of a drunk is beyond the pale.

They didn't ,she gave consent ,the evidence said so

TD's post below is about right ,both parties to blame .He put himself in a vulnerable position and she's just a tramp

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 35863599)

Might be best to just draw a line under it, I can understand him feeling bitter, it has wrecked his career but at the end of the day if he hadn't been there, behaving grubby this whole sordid mess would never have happened. You can only hope this serves as a warning and a lesson to other young footballers and certain types of women for that matter about the consequences of their actions, I won't hold my breath though.

---------- Post added at 09:37 ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by techguyone (Post 35863724)

This. Is worrying, guess poor people just have to suck it up.

Possibly ,but the only reason she was with them in the first place was because they had money and where famous .Poor people tend not to be hunted by things like her

Maggy

15-10-2016 11:15

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M (Post 35863720)

Are you trying to imply he is wrong ? because he's not - some girls/women do that.

Then maybe steering clear of anyone you think is behaving like that is surely the most sensible option? Not getting stuck in.

Mr Banana

15-10-2016 13:02

Re: Footballer rape trial: Ched Evans cleared, Clayton McDonald cleared

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyh (Post 35863745)

They didn't ,she gave consent ,the evidence said so

TD's post below is about right ,both parties to blame .He put himself in a vulnerable position and she's just a tramp

---------- Post added at 09:37 ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 ----------

Possibly ,but the only reason she was with them in the first place was because they had money and where famous .Poor people tend not to be hunted by things like her

Things like her? Really

Seems to be a lot of discontent in the way this trial was conducted

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37666228

All times are GMT +1. The time now is 13:25.

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