Cable Forum - Gays can healed through counselling

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Re: Gays can healed through counselling

Quote:

Silent victims of the gay community

Nitro, you make it sound as if there is a nation-wide conspiracy by the, and I quote, "wider gay community" (does that mean the svelte ones don't participate in these activities?), to hound and victimise straights - have I missed something, as I am sure if this was happening, the red-tops would have banner headlines proclaiming this (imho) - or are the papers like the Sun, the Star, and the News of the World run by a gay cohort of owners and editors?

btw, what is your definition of "victimising", please?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling

Quote:

Originally Posted by NitroNutter (Post 34575245)

I did not state the victims might close down your world as you have so kindly tried to indicate I did. Here is the line as in my post:

As you can see that clearly implies that if all the victims of the wider gay community were to stand up to be counted then the effect of that action by all the victims could be disaterous to your happy little world. There is nothing more or nothing less in there, you are of course entitled to interpret it as you see fit but it is quite precise in its wording that there is really no reason to misinterpret it. To make that a little easier for you, if all the silent victims of the gay community that are alive today was to suddenly stand up and march on london tomorrow would you really want to hazard a guess as to what the turn out would actually be ?

Personally I believe from what I know, not just about me but about many of my friends and their assailants some of whom had also been aquaintences in my past it would probably be an unprecadented quantity, and create a record that would be nigh impossible to beat for a long time.

So looking at Iris Robinson's more personal sentiments on the matter from the viewpoint your suggesting, the ones reported to the police, which I will reiterate for you to save you looking them up:

Your saying these have no foundation to them, they do not come from anything other than her, as you call it 'bigotted opinion' which is purely based on her religous beliefs ?

If not then please enlighten me on where you believe them to have been derived from, but if it is the case please enlighten us as to how you believe her religion has managed to instill such a deeply felt and obviously quite sentimental opinions into her.

@ Xaccers please show other english dictionaries from england which are generally acceptable in britain for the purpose of challenging the most well known and most cited english dictionary in the world from england, which has a longer standing publication than most others with whats generally accepted on a global scale as containing the most concise definitions. Coming up with a pile of citations from an american dictionary site most of which bear little to no real relevance to the word itself or its definition and stating there is '10 alternative definitions' is distinclty nothing but a poorly researched twist perhaps to suit ones agenda and is to be frank worthless imo.

It would have been fair enough if there was one acceptable english (as in from great britain) sourced alternative with any stature behind it to consider them but I dont see any that fit that criteria on the page.

@Nitro In the interview I saw Mrs Robinson give she clearly stated she was "defending the word of god", now this is one sentence with the facts, no speculation about gay abuse, just the facts, here is the link, now lets see you distort that.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...cle3785912.ece

Re: Gays can healed through counselling

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogstamper (Post 34575354)

Putting the direct references to anything religous to one side for a minute, you truly believe that her faith in the word of the alleged good book or even the alleged god almighty is what makes her feel 'nauseous' and causes her to feel 'physical disgust' at the thought of acts of homosexuality and there is nothing else behind those feelings, not even that it maybe her genetic sexuality make up that could cause them, and also in this you believe that her religous beliefs is nothing more than an oversized cult contrived of twisted and bigoted human opinions generated and perpetuated to apply control over as many people as possible which is simply large enough to be recognised as an actual religion rather than a cult ?

If you dont mind me asking, does the mere thought of hetrosexual acts cause you to feel any kind of disgust or nauseous feelings ?

Re: Gays can healed through counselling

Actually, yes, depending on the participants (say Michael Winner and Anne Widdecombe).

Re: Gays can healed through counselling

Quote:

Originally Posted by NitroNutter (Post 34575505)

None whatsoever, I fail to see why it should. As regards Mrs Robinson I'm going on the facts, I'm not applying my own standards to her comments, purely what she has stated, which was she was defending god. All through this Nitro you have placed you own reasons in her mouth, that she or someone she knew "suffered at the hands of homosexuals", this is what I object to, you have absolutely no way of knowing that, it seems you are using this woman to further your own predujices when it is clearly a religious sentiment on her part. Finally I'm curious to know why you should wonder if the mere thought of hetero sex should cause me to feel nauseous, I presume its because you take it that I'm gay from my posts? While I'm sorry to disappoint you, I've been married for over twenty years and have a grandson:shocked: What I can't abide though is bigotry against any group, so I'll reverse your question and answer thus "I don't find hetero/homo or any other form of sex between two consenting adults disgusting or nauseous in anyway.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling

I'm with froggy.

And before you ask, married, two kids (from this marriage, and two from the previous), never performed any homosexual acts (even when in the RAF).

Physical love between two (or more) people is a celebration, not something that is nauseating or physically disgusting (imho).

Re: Gays can healed through counselling

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogstamper (Post 34571372)

I Wouldn't Think Any Party In England Would Want This Bigot As An Mp, Thankfully In Mainstream Politics In England Bigotry Like This Wouldn't Be Tolerated Anymore. In All Honesty Though Would Anyone Expect Anything Different From The Dup, I Expect Her Views Are Prominent In This Party.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogstamper (Post 34572203)

The Age Old Cry Of The Oppressor, "i'm Defending The Word Of God", Another Example, If We Need It, To Show These Manic Religious Nuts Should Have No Place In Power, Hopefully The Electorate Will Remember Her Comments Next Time Shes Up For Re-election.

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogstamper (Post 34572745)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rizzyking (Post 34572377)

I Wonder What A Government Minister Responsible For Faith Matters Would Have To Say On This Matter As Some Want In Another Thread. This Woman Whatever Your Personal View Of Her Is Expressing Views That She And A Lot Of Other People In Many Faiths Have So Can She Really Be Condemned. It Is This Sort Of Thing For Me That Is The Perfect Example Of Not Mixing Politics And Religion, Though It Could Be Said Religion And Politics Are More Closely Linked Then Some Of Us Think As One Is Based On Fairy Tales And The Other Based On Telling Fairy Tales To The Electorate.

As You Say Rizzy A Perfect Example Of Why Politics And Religion Should Be Kept Apart, If This Woman Can't Separate Real Life From Her, Imo, Bigoted Beliefs She Should Stand Down. It Always Strikes Me As Odd That These Fringe Nutters Get So Worked Up About Sex, From What I Remember And Have Been Told The Bible Doesn't Spend A Lot Of Time Or Effort Banging On About Gay Sex, It Appears To Be A Subject All Extreme Religious Headbangers Are Infatuated With....i Wonder Why.?

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogstamper (Post 34575354)

@nitro In The Interview I Saw Mrs Robinson Give She Clearly Stated She Was "defending The Word Of God", Now This Is One Sentence With The Facts, No Speculation About Gay Abuse, Just The Facts, Here Is The Link, Now Lets See You Distort That.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...cle3785912.ece

Quote:

Originally Posted by frogstamper (Post 34575520)

None Whatsoever, I Fail To See Why It Should. As Regards Mrs Robinson I'm Going On The Facts, I'm Not Applying My Own Standards To Her Comments, Purely What She Has Stated, Which Was She Was Defending God. All Through This Nitro You Have Placed You Own Reasons In Her Mouth, That She Or Someone She Knew "suffered At The Hands Of Homosexuals", This Is What I Object To, You Have Absolutely No Way Of Knowing That, It Seems You Are Using This Woman To Further Your Own Predujices When It Is Clearly A Religious Sentiment On Her Part. Finally I'm Curious To Know Why You Should Wonder If The Mere Thought Of Hetero Sex Should Cause Me To Feel Nauseous, I Presume Its Because You Take It That I'm Gay From My Posts? While I'm Sorry To Disappoint You, I've Been Married For Over Twenty Years And Have A Grandsonhttp://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/.....es/shocked.gif What I Can't Abide Though Is Bigotry Against any Group, So I'll Reverse Your Question And Answer Thus "i Don't Find Hetero/homo Or Any Other Form Of Sex Between Two Consenting Adults Disgusting Or Nauseous In Anyway.

And going by the facts she has while openly and honestly stating her religous convictions on the subject also declared interests in the subject at both a personal level via some associate who has by their own choice changed from a homosexual lifestyle to one of a hetrosexual nature and a professional level via a work colleage who is specialising in this particular field as a counsellor by offering counsel to those who desire to recieve it.

Are you acusing her of making these people up solely to support her religous convictions ?

The very fact that you openly and publicly choose to disregard anything beyond her openly stated religous convictions on the subject surely can only be described as one thing ?
Should it also be taken that because there is a religous background to a supporter of this counselling service you would deny this treatment being available to people even if they should desire it ?

Further more you go on to claim that due to her religous convictions she is unfit to retain her current position while branding her without evidence or qualified foundation a 'manic religous nut'.
Would you also recomend people be removed from their office because they live a gay lifestyle ?

There is bound to be some grounds for 'conflicts of interest' in just about any position held by any one, therefore everyone by your standing should actually not go into work tomorrow because they will be somewhere and somehow unfit for that position.

If measuring something on a scale of degrees I would have to say I think you have attained a level in the crime well above that of what you origionally pointed your finger for with wild accusations in your first post in the thread. Could you therefore be a 'non-religous manic nut' with a prejudice lack of respect for any one who is religous, Perhaps you to should be removed from your office ?

It would be unlikely for you to personally feel any of the more specific sentiments that has also been declared by her during her interview on the matter unless you have actually physically experienced them or are conveying the physical experience as described by another who you are in close contact with, they are common feelings felt by victims and victims only regardless of ones own sexual orientation or the sexual orientation of an attack, easy to condemn such acts, but only possible to try to imagine the after effects of the trauma.

I hold no cross to my convictions, I speak on personal experience alone and I echo Iris Robinsons sentiments with the religous parts removed without regret or fear because it is experience alone that leads me to them. I also hold that there are many people out there that may well be living a gay lifestyle while not being specifically genetically gay, I also do not let that fact detract from the possibility there are going to be some out there who indeed are genetically gay but this in my experience does not count for the entire gay population, in fact it is those who are truly genetically gay that are the ones most likely to suffer because there are others using this as an excuse to do as they please without conscience. They will go so far as to create a myth that then legitemises anyone as a target for sexual harrasment or worse and again without conscience.

It is with that reason I believe the counselling service she is claiming to know of could be of benefit to many and should not be dismissed based purely on prejudice against religion of a supporter of the service, and so concurs to some degree with the thread title

The myth created by and for those who like excuses of conscience is: "Everyone is gay, they either choose to remain in the closet or are simply living in denial".

This myth is nothing short of an abonimation in its own right as it is beneath contempt due to the path it inevitably leads to.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling

Ok Nitro we get it trust me you don't like gays for whatever reason but constantly banging on is not helping you so it is time to let it lie. Also as you raised a point i made having a faith doesn't and shouldn't exclude anyone from a public office but that faith as far as i am concerned has no place in the official role of that public office and thats what i was saying and what Froggies was agreeing with.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling

Quote:

Originally Posted by NitroNutter (Post 34575791)

....snippety snip..
, I also do not let that fact detract from the possibility there are going to be some out there who indeed are genetically gay but this in my experience does not count for the entire gay population, in fact it is those who are truly genetically gay that are the ones most likely to suffer because there are others using this as an excuse to do as they please without conscience. They will go so far as to create a myth that then legitemises anyone as a target for sexual harrasment or worse and again without conscience....snip

Please supply evidence to back up your outrageous claim.

This so-called myth, which no one except you appears to know about, appears to give you the right to make extremely derogatory comments about a section of society - shame on you.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling

Quote:

Originally Posted by RizzyKing (Post 34575806)

And surely that should then apply to any cult or scene (7) that could swing a bias affecting personal opinions in varying directions that would affect others ?

You should remember she has not declared any kind of religous condemnation of gay people themselves, she simply dislikes the act itself in her personal opinion, an opinion reinforced by her religous stance on the act, meanwhile personally knowing people and counsellors offering aid to those who desire it, which can give support to any who feel they may not have entered into the correct sexual orientated choice for themselves, and for this she has no rights to her office ?

Personally I dont think you have the capability to make an unbiased choice on any who should be in office, if her comments are sufficient grounds for a resignation plee then I pity the rest of the world's population, 6 odd billion people may as well throw a noose around their necks now.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling

Seeing that some people on here are quite fond of reference sites, I've found one that seems particularly relevant:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

Re: Gays can healed through counselling

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34575872)

http://www.metro.co.uk/travel/articl...2&in_page_id=5

http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/celebri...ado-10735.html

posted 13 July 1999 08:32 PM

Quote:

The whole inane business brings to mind a homosexual acquaintance of
mine. Between detox sessions and suicide attempts he is fond of arguing
that everyone who is of any consequence is gay. In his cups, he will
contend that everyone is gay; they simply don't all realize it yet.

http://www.theworldaccordingto.com/f...0&#entry134810

In fact google will return several thousand results for the phrase which you use the first three words, many of which are relevant to the entire context, the last section, which is often dropped as its not entirely required for the same result, like any phrase can and does change some just as any phrase would in a game of chinese whispers, however it really does mount to the same twisted concept each and every time.

I guess as I am the only one who knows of it, I must have created all the pages, posts etc it exists on, just for this particular topic as I must have know it was one that would arrive for me one day ?

It has even been branded about these forums by some here who profess they are, either they have been removed by staff or the search function is not acting as one would normally expect for vbulletin.

Throw this phrase in with a stock of mind and/or body altering intoxicants and I can asure you you can easily convince all sorts of people it is true.

I would say 'each to their own' 'live and let live' yadda yadda, but having been there and done and got t-shirts that was not requested it unfortunately does not work that way, the two worlds cannot co-exist together when it is subjected to such wide spread human distortion, which it would appear it is incapable of refraining from.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling

You are using single points of evidence to back up sweeping statements (Tel Aviv gays, Nelly Furtado, etc).

btw, you get 110,000 with google for "everyone is gay"; you get 40,000 for "everyone is green", and 71,00 for "everyone is dead". So, according to your logic, it is equally valid that everyone is either dead or green..... (if you type in "everyone" in google, you get 656,000,000 hits - I think you may find "everyone" is a very popular word - if you type in "all men are gay", google returns about 9000 hits; but I don't suppose that would support your conspiracy theory).

Also according to your logic (things that are reported on the IntraWeeb), all white men are inherently rapists and xenophobics, and are in denial if they disagree. :dozey:

Xenophobia1

Xenophobia2

Rape 1

Rape 2

Nitro, it would appear that you have undergone a traumatic incident in your past, which has skewed (imho) your view on others. To me, it appears you are then escalating this viewpoint into a one-size fits all proposition.

To put it another way, here at two examples -
I had some colleagues injured by Provo terrorists, who were Irish - I didn't/still don't think all Irish people are trying to kill me and others.

I was hit by Vauxhall Viva who ignored a red traffic light, causing me to fly like a bird (luckily, only bruised and contused) - I don't think that all cars, or even the GM subset, have an agenda to run over anyone crossing the road.

I find your vast generalisations offensive, and I am still awaiting evidence on your assertion that there are hordes of gay men roaming the United Kingdom molesting and harassing straight men at all times of the day and night, unreported in the national press.

Edit - just out of interest, I googled certain phrases on googles uk pages, and got the following returns -
"gay molestation" 9 returns
"homosexual molestation", 48 returns
"gay assault" 82 returns
"homosexual assault" 220 returns
"assault" - 595,000 returns
"molestation" 97,000 returns

obviously, google is in denial.

Re: Gays can healed through counselling

In the end I can stand up and say the words "I AM GAY"....

But where does that get me...no-where, and why should it!

To me being gay is purely about my choice of a partner, nothing to do with others and apart from that one choice I'm a normal human being who just wants to live thier life with the same freedom that anyone else has.

As for intolerance that's upto whoever has the intollerance, as long as it doesnt effect my life then I don;t really care what they think as they're welcome to have thier own opinion.

As far as the original news article which this thread is based on well that's her own personal feelings and it's a shame that her feeling are being brought out in a political situation. Surely an MP should be putting thier constituants feelings forward in any political context and not purely thier own :(

Kymmy

---------- Post added at 14:51 ---------- Previous post was at 14:50 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by foreverwar (Post 34575921)

I was hit by Vauxhall Viva who ignored a red traffic light, causing me to fly like a bird (luckily, only bruised and contused) - I don't think that all cars, or even the GM subset, have an agenda to run over anyone crossing the road..

Try saying that to a bike rider about volvos...

Must make me an enigma as I am a long time biker who drives a volvo when she's not on the bike ;)

Kymmy

Re: Gays can healed through counselling

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kymmy (Post 34575928)

...snip...
Try saying that to a bike rider about volvos...

Must make me an enigma as I am a long time biker who drives a volvo when she's not on the bike ;)

Kymmy

So do you get annoyed with yourself? :D