Re: Coronavirus
 

Day off mate.

---------- Post added at 10:32 ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 ----------

Want some refurbished ones;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

But their mates can supply you...but they have a different definition of mates' rates. ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Nah, the problem is much deeper than that.
Quite obviously there is still a shortage of workers to pack the tests into boxes
Still a shortage of HGV drivers to get the boxes to distribution centers.
The new (apparently) shortage of postal workers to get the boxes to homes.

No shortage of the tests themselves, no way, not unless the public have been shunted into panic mode again and everyone is ord . . . . oh, hang on :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Panic ? Or perhaps the pubiic wanting to protect themselves/loved ones ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

oh, pardon me. I didn't realise a flow test protected you.

I'd still go with panic though :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Point taken, so to rephrase perhaps the British public are more considerate of others than we give them credit for.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Maybe, who knows.
If everyone is following the guidance of social distancing, wearing masks and working from home there *shouldn't* be a need for a huge demand for test kits.

Of course, if the media headlines about easier Omicron transmission and saying possibly (could be, might, up to, etc) many thousands of people could already have it without knowing, this may force the use of kits to rise . . even though they have no symptoms and not been 'pinged' by track n trace.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There’s no requirements for social distancing anymore ? It wasn’t mentioned when plan b was announced ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

One would have thought, with a virus 'expected' to affect millions of people in the next month, that social distancing would be at the forefront of ways to prevent it.

Just shows what I know doesn't it ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

You’re right, you would of thought so. However, the hospitality industry would be up in arms even more than they are now.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's true . . obviously a fine balancing act between overwhelming the NHS and keeping the economy afloat . . Christmas parties or not ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Indeed, I believe we will probably end up in another lockdown. Which could of helped to have been avoided had social distancing been brought back in.


Hope I’m wrong however

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's all the selfish people hoarding all the tests and testing themselves every day.

Re: Coronavirus
 

jfman has predicted one too. I hope you're both wrong but I certainly expect stronger measures post Christmas.

Re: Coronavirus
 

After just seeing the latest BBC article, I'm not placing any bets.

Covid: First UK death recorded with Omicron variant

Sketchy to say the least, no details yet

Re: Coronavirus
 

Boris had apparently said this morning he won’t rule out implementing further measures prior to Christmas. I don’t expect a lockdown this side of Christmas but I do think rule of six & social distancing could be back in play.

Something has got Boris, Javid & Gove seriously spooked

Re: Coronavirus
 

one person has died!..........runs to the hills with head on fire

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yup very sketchy, especially as ‘with’ != ‘of’

Re: Coronavirus
 

on 1st Nov there were 9670 people in Hospital with Covid, last week 9th Dec there were 7413.

No one was claiming the NHS was about to go under in November .Maybe there was but I didn't see much about it, there was no talk of restrictions.

on the 4th Nov there were 1034 on ventilation beds on the 9th Dec there were 900

on the 27th Oct the daily hospitalisation rate was 1150 on the 6th Dec it was 839.

I don't doubt for one second that these figures will rise, they may get back to early November levels, they may even exceed early November levels.

But the trigger wasn't pulled in early November, which means the Government were OK with those levels.

The fact they have (half) pulled the trigger without data is alarming.

We are not in the situation we were in, in 2020 and early 2021, where you could argue that being cautious and even over cautious was acceptable.

81% have had two Jabs

a further 8% have just the one (most of them will be in the 12-16 category as that was the advice)

and even an impressive 40% have had three (I need to sort mine out this week)

There's approx 9M of the population under 12, which is approx 13%.

Most (I would argue) of the unvaccinated are those that medically can't be and children under 12, that gain no benefit from it.

considering 89% of the population have had the first Jab and 13% been told they don't need it, that really makes the hard core anti-vaxxers, in reality a pretty small number.

Plus there'll be some in that hard core anti-vax that will probably have some natural immunity.

So the vaccines would have to just not work at all, to get to anything that resembles last year.

In short, I can't see how the case for any restrictions at the moment has been made.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I am assuming the concern is that we're a few weeks out from huge increases above November levels. The Government has already shown, as you point out, it is happy with the numbers to back then so presumably they think it's going to explode.

They would be projecting the cases to rise x amount, of which y% will go into hospital. Even if y is lower than Delta if X is dramatically higher it would be a problem.

Re: Coronavirus
 

This is why they are concerned:
https://ourworldindata.org/explorers...ry=NOR~DNK~ZAF

Note Norway and Denmark are ahead of the UK for doubly-vaccinated, but behind for boosters.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's not about current or past levels, it's the issue about future levels that's concerning.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But you're looking at infections again. Which would be an issue in a very low vaccinated population.

But we're not.

---------- Post added at 13:32 ---------- Previous post was at 13:31 ----------

But that will only happen if the vaccines don't work.

---------- Post added at 13:33 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------

What's concerning about the future levels?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Nice chart . . click on the box to add Andorra ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well, they think there is a vaccine escape right? It seems early data says the booster provides 70-75% protection against asymptomatic infection which is impressively high considering it's developed against an earlier strain and even then they think the booster or the standard two jabs provide more protection against hospitalisation and death.

So encouraging so far but need to roll out that booster faster.

But as I understand it's all early numbers and the case rates are looking at getting so high that if we're wrong about that then problems could happen. If come early January those fears are misplaced then lift the restrictions again.

Re: Coronavirus
 

We should find out tonight in Johnson's announcement.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Boris is gracing us with his presence again ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

I know, I was querying the ‘Johnson’s announcement’ comment

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sorry, a colleague misinformed me, it's Javid not Johnson.

---------- Post added at 15:46 ---------- Previous post was at 15:45 ----------

He's probably up in Shropshire North galvanising his ground troops.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Oh you mean "If Labour was in power we'd do everything the Tories have done, only faster and harder. The Tories are not being authoritarian enough. We need to be fining and imprisoning the unvaccinated (even if it is a tiny %)"

I think that's what he'd say.

Oh and "none of us broke any COVID rules ever...at all. Only Tories do that."

Re: Coronavirus
 

I only wish Johnson's loyalty to you was half as strong as your loyalty is to him. He's thrown us all under the bus with one set of rules for him and his chums and another for the rest of us.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's all the same party now that starmer votes for every thing Boris puts forward.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They can't roll out the booster faster when people can't get them.


I'm already booked in, but it's not for a couple of weeks, and perhaps want it sooner. I don't really want to cancel the appointment I have and risk having to wait even longer.



The NHS site hasn't been updated yet. There are 3 walk in sites in Notts presently, 2 are in Mansfield, which I haven't looked at, and 1 is in Nottm and says it's not doing boosters. At present that says it closes some days at 3.30, which isn't really sensible for anyone who has a full time job. A city of this size needs about 5-6 walk in centres open something like 7am-10pm independently of those with booked in appointments. It would be good to see this capacity increased but this presumably needs sites and staff to do it.

---------- Post added at 16:18 ---------- Previous post was at 16:14 ----------

Hoyle is teed off with ABdPJ for announcing on TV ahead of Parliament again...

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm not loyal to anyone. My criticism of the government's handling of COVID, I thought, has been pretty clear.

My point in that post and in other previous posts is that when it comes to COVID we are in a one party state as Starmer offers nothing, other than to reinforce Tory decision making. In fact it is Starmers loyalty to Johnson you should be questioning.

---------- Post added at 16:22 ---------- Previous post was at 16:21 ----------

I booked today, and could have got it tomorrow if I wanted. Booked in for Friday.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Javid is coming across absolutely clueless here.


Has he tried to do this today?



I understand they're trying to increase capacity, but isn't that just holding back the demand?

---------- Post added at 16:25 ---------- Previous post was at 16:24 ----------

I'd rather have it this week than next. As it stands i'd be boosted this year...

---------- Post added at 16:29 ---------- Previous post was at 16:25 ----------

The guy sat behind Javid is screwing around on his phone, still a fair few aren't wearing masks...

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: Prime Minister Boris Johnson loses his working majority as 79 Tory MPs have declared they’re rebelling by voting against Covid Passports tomorrow.

https://order-order.com/2021/12/13/n...ents-majority/

Re: Coronavirus
 

Great, as I have said before, the Tory Party is the party of Government and also the party of Opposition.

Labour will vote with the government to get this through.

It's ridiculous and a total Labour own goal. They have a chance to win a vote in Parliament against Johnson and instead they'll side with him.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I’m confused, I thought the point of opposition was to hold the government accountable BUT to vote with them if they agreed. not just wholly disagree with the elected government on every issue ?

Re: Coronavirus
 

]In the past, J R-M has said that the true division in the Commons is between those with executive responsibility and those without.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So they're relying on Labour, who by all accounts don't think the measures are hard enough.


I notice Liam Fox in the list, who is a former GP.



Really don't see the point in the covid passports, especially when the studies seem to suggest someone with 2xAZ has 0% protection against symptoms with Omicron. What is that even going to achieve if they haven't had a booster?

Re: Coronavirus
 

If they didn't the accusation would be they've put party politics ahead of the country.

Besides, politically it's not exactly unhelpful for Labour to have Johnson in the position of passing a bill unpopular with his party using their votes. Labour get to look bipartisan and Johnson has to face a disquiet within his own party. Labour supporting the bill also gives Tory MPs on the fence a reason to safely rebel against the bill pushing that awkwardness higher.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I took the twins to the "Pfizer MVC" the other side of the city. The car park was closed and very poor signage sent us on a tour of the local area, to end up in a new, muddy car park.

40 minutes later, they came out after having the "Moderna Spikevax" jabs.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Responsible behaviour is seen as getting vaccinated and covid passports encourage this behaviour.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Responsible people shouldn't need encouraged to get vaccinated.

Re: Coronavirus
 

From some, but I would hope they would have the shoulders to bear that accusation.

A 4 year old could punch holes through the governments COVID measures, Starmer obviously not willing to, because of this………..

That’s actually a very insightful observation that I can agree with, by relying on Labour to push it through will infuriate Tories and definitely weaken an already punch drunk Johnson.

I don’t see him making it through 2022.

---------- Post added at 19:26 ---------- Previous post was at 19:24 ----------

They’re not required because…….as per an earlier post from myself………..it is clear that the unvaccinated (the actual anti-vax brigade) is a tiny percentage of the population.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The passport will be updated to require a booster:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/p...r-b971716.html

Re: Coronavirus
 

But not for a while, until people have had chance to get their 3rd jabs.


Plan B expires at the end of January unless it's renewed (or revoked earlier if the situation calms down).

Re: Coronavirus
 

They wont do that. They just spent the last few days ramping up the fear factor.
They are not going to turn around in a few weeks and say "it was all for nothing", carry on.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If Omicron turns out to be a damp squib, the science will have changed, so the reaction shall certainly change.

And the only fear I feel at the moment is about what Putin is playing at on the Ukraine border.

Re: Coronavirus
 

They shouldn't be bullied into it by that kind of language either.

Re: Coronavirus
 

What anybody decides about their own health is OK. As long as they don't affect anyone else.

No vaccine then no holiday, pub, restaurant, cinema etc. It would be a fair enough rule imo, and the way its going. Their choice, and our choice. Each to their own.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You’re falling for it. The numbers of unvaccinated are tiny. Vaccine “passports” are not about encouraging vaccinations. The overwhelming majority of people are vaccinated. Hard core anti-vaxxers are a tiny number.

I don’t know what vaccine passports are for, but they’re not for safety or encouraging vaccinations………..so who knows?

Re: Coronavirus
 

You should goose step down to the allotment and chillax.

Re: Coronavirus
 

As far as I can tell . .

The digital passports give you unlimited entry to many large gatherings for at least 30 days.

If you get a 'paper' passport instead of a digital one, it isn't time limited.

After day 2 you *could* catch Covid, have no symptoms, and merrily spread it for the next 28 days or more ;)

Hope this helps

Re: Coronavirus
 

The passport in the app expires 30 days from whenever you refresh it.
When I download the PDF from the website, its limited to 30 days from when I downloaded it.


I download it, and then print the PDF, but the whole 30 day thing has me baffled.
Its not like Im going to magically be unjabbed in 29 days time, whats the point of the expiry. :confused:

Re: Coronavirus
 

It all baffles me.

It's like watching them perform that magic trick with 3 cups and a ball . . . but when they lift the cups, all 3 have a ball underneath them and I'm left asking myself why they bothered shuffling the cups :shrug:

Re: Coronavirus
 

It is probably to stop people getting hold of someone else's QR code and using it though 30 days is long enough if say someone generated a code/PDF from the app for themselves and then straight away gave it to their friend who wasn't vaccinated at all to use. The only way of course you know the QR code is that person is a secondary photo ID check such as a photo driving licence or a passport anyway.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I know little about him but I thought Tobias Ellwood MP spoke well on sky news this morning

Re: Coronavirus
 

Unlike Raab who said there were no plans for further restrictions, 250 people in hospital, then later said it was nine people before officials said it was 10. Confused.com!
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...round-12495367

Re: Coronavirus
 

If/when the rules for the passport change (e.g needing a third dose), it stops you perpetually using an old 2-dose certificate.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I could of stopped reading at Raab and still known what you were going to say, the man’s an utter balloon knot.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Good News from South Africa!

https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/stat...88952491425792

Re: Coronavirus
 

this would be the day after our World King Spaffer says we need to stop thinking this...


I suppose it's still early days and in a sense he is right.


But let's consider that first one, that means that it leads to that number fewer hospitalisations. It will still presumably make people ill like flu or a bad cold which is still unpleasant enough.


Even with that drop off it is going to still cause plenty of hospitalisations.


I also saw earlier that there is the possibility it isn't much more transmissible than Delta, but that the immune escape makes it appear that way, as it will be able to infect more people than Delta is. I guess that one is going to take a while to back up.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not what I'd call good news. Previous reports suggested it was something like 90% milder.

The Norwegian party incident suggests it is much more transmissible.
https://sciencenorway.no/covid19/at-...n-oslo/1949790

I don't remember anything close to that happening in the early days of the pandemic (e.g the Chinese bus study)
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2770172

Re: Coronavirus
 

Now PCR tests RUN OUT too: Chaos as government website says no drive through and walk in swabs are available in England on last day someone can catch Covid and be out of isolation for Christmas after lateral flow test delivery problems


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...st-online.html

Re: Coronavirus
 

No tests available in three cities and one town has limited availability (Stockton on tees) Apart from that back to normal according to the BBC

Re: Coronavirus
 

But there are still none listed as available in Hertfordshire, Suffolk, the Isle of Wight, Bristol, and Mendip - while there are "very few" in Stockton-on-Tees.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just ordered Lateral Flow Tests, they're available again.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yup - me, too.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I managed to order lateral flow test late last night approx 10:30

Re: Coronavirus
 

As long as you don't get paranoid about testing yourselves;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

As long as you don't get paranoid about not testing yourselves ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sick of reading misinformation and crap posted like this - if you have ALL the vaccines, you CAN still pass it on, it is a medical and scientific fact, I don't want to see comebacks of, well the vaccine helps to stop transmission, or it lowers the chances of it being passed on, Utter nonsense!- no it does not in any significant way, you can still get covid, vaccine or no vaccine, so this bullshit about the unvaccinated being the risk and we need to curb their freedoms, it is nothing but pure fanciful authoritarian bullshit.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not nonsense at all old chap. This is still pretty hot off the presses but vaccination clearly does reduce transmission in a significant way.

This is the killer table showing the risk on transmission if vaccinated and the risk of infection if vaccinated;

https://www.cableforum.uk/images/local/2021/12/3.gif

Best case, if you are vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine, you reduce the risk of transmission by 70% (that is with the Alpha variant, it's 50% with Delta)

Vaccines seem to speed up virus clearance - it looks like the amount of virus in a vaccinated and unvaccinated infected person is the same at their peaks but vaccinated people clear the virus quicker. Basically, they are not infectious as long as unvaccinated.

So, to turn it around, unvaccinated people are more likely to infect others. Plus of course, there's the whole hospitalisation and death thing that vaccines handily protect you from

Re: Coronavirus
 

Here's another article that backs you up:

How much less likely are you to spread covid-19 if you're vaccinated?

Re: Coronavirus
 

One would wonder if vaccinated people are also more likely to follow other guidelines and so reduce transmission by other mechanisms.

Re: Coronavirus
 

More nonsense & claptrap. I’m sticking to vaccines do not stop transmission. Utter rubbish it stops transmission by 70%. That table is incorrect.

At the end of the day, you’re vaccinated so if you feel so damn safe, then your apparent risk is small from either unvaccinated or vaccinated persons because being either, does not stop you catching Covid. Stop going on about stupid percentages and misinformation, it is a correct fact that being vaccinated does not stop transmission, there is no sugar coating it with irrelevant and fabricated data.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There were, at one time in the not so distance past, quite a few stories/reports of hospital beds being taken by 'double jabbed' Covid patients . . . I wonder if they were on normal wards due the the reduced risk of transmission? :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

I wonder if they carry other diseases, I've heard they live like animals and eat babies.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Yet you have disgraceful liberal lefties on here, being discriminatory on health grounds by calling for freedoms to be curbed, but they’re basing their fears on fabricated and irrelevant data, they will sleep walk in to catching Covid thinking they are safe from catching it from other vaccinated persons. :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Liberals by definition are against things like vaccination passports.

Re: Coronavirus
 

To be fair, I guess the chances of catching Covid are slim while hugging a tree or gluing your head to the road ;)

Re: Coronavirus
 

Are you sure?

Your so called liberal buddies, 99Balloons, sorry Ianch99 and Mr K, calling for the unvaccinated to lose their freedoms. This is discriminatory on health grounds and absolutely not liberal in the slightest.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The missus has her second eye op on 5th January next year.

The letter says she has to go for a PCR test on 1st Jan, then the entire household MUST self-isolate at home from that same morning until after she returns home on the 5th Jan. "THE ENTIRE HOUSEHOLD SHOULD NOT GO TO WORK, OR MEET WITH PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE HOME".

It also says that if her PCR is positive, or if anyone in the home tests positive before her op, the entire household must self-isolate for 10 days. The op will then be rescheduled for a later date.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Liberals are against things like proroguing Parliament, ID cards, banning protests and vaccination passports.

I think your terminology for the above esteemed forum members may be slightly adrift. For starters, Mr K is a share-owning capitalist so not a liberal leftie.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But it's not black and white.

You're right that vaccines don't stop transmission. However, there is a lot of evidence they reduce transmission. It's lower for the Delta variant but the studies on it did show a reduction. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...690-3/fulltext

As far as I am aware there is no scientific evidence it stops transmission, we can see that in numbers already, but even amongst sceptics it's accepted it reduces it. There is just an argument on how much it does.

After all if it didn't reduce transmission then the numbers never would have gone down.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Apparently there was some tool on GBNews claiming that:

Here's a Full Fact rebuttal:

https://fullfact.org/online/neil-oli...ccines-effect/

Re: Coronavirus
 

That table is so "Hot off the press" it is irrelevant as the current concern is about the Omicron variant which is more transmissable and has built in vaccine evasion. That means that covid passports are a complete and utter waste of time and vaccines do not reduce transmission by anywhere near 70%.

Thankfully it appears to be less deadly and no-one has yet reported to have died from it anywhere in the world.

There is a vast difference between someone dying with the Omicron variant and dying from it. Project fear yet again.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You are making statements based on no evidence. There are studies that backup the assertion that a booster jab is effective in reducing transmission:

Omicron: Three vaccine doses key for protection against variant

Please share the research that backs up your assertion that vaccines do not reduce transmission.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That practically nearly every colleague of mine in my healthcare setting, who have recently had their vaccines & boosters have caught Covid two weeks later. Go figure FFS.

---------- Post added at 18:25 ---------- Previous post was at 18:20 ----------

The next person to refer or use incorrect names for news outlets will be banned from debating in this thread. Grow up.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So what? If you work in the medical sector, you should know that science is not based on anecdotal small data sets :dunce:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Vaccination does not stop transmission. Nothing you say alters this fact whatsoever.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But that's an unrepresentative demographic to choose as these people will be around very infectious people all day, every day. In the outside world, fewer people should have COVID and those that do will have less serious symptoms and therefore lower infectivity.

All the people that didn't have the vaccine, that caught it despite the vaccine and had worse symptoms despite the vaccine is going to the hospital. It's ground zero for the virus.

Re: Coronavirus
 

In terms of omicron we’re still missing a key piece of information and that is how much more transmissible it is compared to previous variants. Imho anything over 3x more transmissible and we will have an issue for the health service.

There has been one study in Japan not peer reviewed or confirmed which believes that it’s 4.2 times more transmissible. That would be bad news even with the 30% drop in hospitalisations.

TL:DR we still don’t have enough information, South Africa’s statements can’t be taken as 100% applicable to the U.K.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That is not what you are claiming, is it? You are claiming that it does not significantly reduce transmission.

Re: Coronavirus
 

How many times do I have to repeat the line?

Vaccination does not stop transmission?

I’m not interested in, likely, could be, maybe…. Vaccinations only stop serious illness. Nothing more. Vaccinated are still carriers and can still pass on Covid. “Less likely”, is rubbish mantra.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But they don’t, they significantly reduce the chances of you getting seriously ill

Re: Coronavirus
 

Not sure we’re not disagreeing with each other here?