Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36112324)

The UK used to drill its own Gas Wells if it invested in storage and did not sell it all off we would not have to buy any from anyone else. This is why I have banged my head against a brick wall with the 30+ years ago when it all got screwed up

British Gas was privatised in 1986 by that wonderful prime minister Thatcher we are in this mess imo directly due to this event in history

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36112327)

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36112328)

Another thing where we probably went wrong was not following the lead of other oil and gas producing countries and establishing a sovereign wealth fund from the profits to give us an income when the oil dollars dry up.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36112326)

It could be a government-owned British Gas would have sold the storage off as well, we just don't know.

To me, it's a failure of regulation. The regulator should have ensured a strategic gas storage facility remained and there was a funding mechanism in place to ensure this.

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36112330)

wow that is a stretch. Counter my point with speculation and fantasy

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36112331)

It's a discussion and it's not fantasy.

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36112333)

Your conjecture that BG might have sold the storage anyway is.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36112351)

Not sure the Energy Loan/Levy has been fully thought through…

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...2&d=1643987355

https://twitter.com/martinslewis/sta...235065344?s=21

Originally Posted by Inactive Digital (Post 36112361)

And what happens to those moving into their first homes in 2023 - are they expected to pay an additional £40 per year despite not getting the benefit? What if someone takes the £200 in October then closes their account and their partner/housemate etc opens a new account. There seems to be loopholes in this.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36112365)

Would have been more straightforward if they'd put Universal Credit up and removed the VAT. However, the Conservative Party placed VAT on fuel in the first place, so I think their strategy is to tax it.

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36112368)

So those on ESA would have to miss out and wait on a court case to see if they should get the UC uplift after the DWP says it is too difficult to do it

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36112369)

Universal Credit was uplifted temporarily during the pandemic. I can't see why this can't be done again.

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36112373)

Yes it was but those on legacy benefits were left worse off than those on UC as the DWP said it was too difficult to give the uplift to those on legacy benefits. There has been a court case on this matter and we are awaiting a judgement.

So as I said those on ESA would miss out on any payment if it was done through UC so not quite as simple as you seem to be making out

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36112381)

If any discount is tied to the account number, then will any change(even from PAYG meter to credit) wipe out the debt?
Power bills are per household, not per person, so using benefits wouldn't be the appropriate way to do it.
Crediting PAYG meters is easy. Just use the same mechanism as for the Warm Homes Discount. The problem comes with recovering the £200 over time. That might be best done by a surcharge on the standing charge. May be unfair to those who didn't get the £200, but not sure there is any other way. An 11p per day extra would appear large compared to the real underlying standing charge.

Other complications exist, such as bedsits or flats in a single building with a single power bill paid by the landlord. Each flat/bedsit would get the council tax reduction, but not the £200 each.

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I don't understand why they couldn't have amended the basic IS/JSA/ESA etc payment by £20, the same way as the annual increase.

Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36112395)

They don't really need to worry much in Spain imo, a good bit warmer there than here.

Originally Posted by GrimUpNorth (Post 36112328)

I think you're right about privatisation, it's always seemed fundamentally wrong to try and make a profit (for shareholders) out of a public service. Another thing where we probably went wrong was not following the lead of other oil and gas producing countries and establishing a sovereign wealth fund from the profits to give us an income when the oil dollars dry up.

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36112399)

The bigger issue is how much electricity is generated using gas. That is the problem the UK and certain other countries(eg Germany) have.

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36112381)

I don't understand why they couldn't have amended the basic IS/JSA/ESA etc payment by £20, the same way as the annual increase.

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36112381)

I don't understand why they couldn't have amended the basic IS/JSA/ESA etc payment by £20, the same way as the annual increase.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36112351)

Not sure the Energy Loan/Levy has been fully thought through…

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36112459)

I believe there will be a one-off credit on the bill, then once a year, a £40 debit will be added to the bill.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36112327)

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36112470)

£200 will deducted from EVERY bill in October then the following April £40 will be added to EVERY yearly bill for 5 years and you have no choice

And this means if in the next 5 years anyone who takes residence in a property and pays a bill for the first time will also be charged the extra £40 a year even if they did not receive the £200 deductions. Terribly unfair and a terrible idea

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36112476)

Then again if they've moved from somewhere else, they won't have to pay back the £200 they got there.
No simple solutions to any of it.
As Martin Lewis point out.

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36112475)

I think Seph is one of few Conservative supporters who really gets it. Imposing free market dogma on inappropriate sectors like energy, water, etc. could, and did, only lead to disaster. In the last year, the Big 6 energy companies made over 3 billion in profits and since 2010, the energy firms have paid £200bn to shareholders.

By having a degree of state control and/or ownership, you can do what France has done and limit the energy bill rises to 4%. Of course, the people who pick up the bill here, in this country, are the poor smucks who have no choices, and what is even more depressing, these same smucks will vote for more of the same come the next election.

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36112478)

France is a heavy user of Nuclear power and that limits the impact of higher gas costs. The UK uses gas for more than a third of it's electricity production. Ownership doesn't come into it.

Originally Posted by joglynne (Post 36112480)

My only silver lining is that the £200 credit this year will free up some money which can go towards other winter bills and then when I have to pay it back inflation will have whittled down it's relative buying power.

I know this isn't a true win win view but if I don't find a positive spin on what I can't change then I will probably just sit down and cry.

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36112477)

They would have to move somewhere and not have to pay a bill to get out of paying the £200 back because EVERY bill for 5 years will get the £40 levy.

IMO Already having levies on bill is irrelevant, this is a forced loan with a forced repayment plan that as said is unfair. Calling it a levy is just clouding the issue and trying to fool people into thinking we are not having our rights crapped all over

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36112483)

That's my point. They will have received the £200 previously, so it's not unreasonable for them to get the £40/year deduction at the new property.
What other way was there of doing it? Too many different scenarios to deal with simply.

You have to tie the "debt" to an individual or a property.

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36112489)

Not everyone. There will be a number over the 5 years that have not been responsible for a bill before. Someone leaving home and moving into billed accommodation and someone splitting from their partner are 2 examples where someone was not paying a bill so did not receive the £200 but will when they start paying a bill have to pay the £40

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36112490)

So how would you make the "debt" follow the household that received the £200?
Too many scenarios to cater for.

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36112501)

Quite a few of us won't be getting the £150...

(around 20%)

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36112502)

there is a good chance a fair few of that 20% can soak up the costs

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36112506)

There is a good chance a fair few of that 20% are on fixed incomes, such as pensioners…

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36112478)

Ownership doesn't come into it.

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36112507)

then they will get the winter fuel payment and if in need the WHD too...

As it is now my energy bills are 17-18% of my income after April it will be nearer 22-23% unless I go cold and cut back on electric more than I already have had too. Anyone in my position and those worse off than me are going to really struggle if this continues. I hope and pray everyone that needs support can get support

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36112510)

Really?

Not all pensioners are receiving their State Pension yet - I will receive mine in November this year, and my wife will receive hers in five and a half years time…

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36112509)

Ownership is the only reason this happened :dunce:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...d-energy-bills

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36112509)

Ownership is the only reason this happened :dunce:

https://www.theguardian.com/business...d-energy-bills

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36112520)

I do hope I'm not subsidising French people's bills

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36112501)

Quite a few of us won't be getting the £150...

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36112512)

So not nationalised, not even fully owned, not the only supplier, and not a gas supplier. So nothing to do with the status of British Gas.
How does that address the cost of gas and gas generated electricity?:confused:

Originally Posted by TheDaddy (Post 36112520)

I do hope I'm not subsidising French people's bills

Originally Posted by ianch99 (Post 36112566)

What on earth are you wittering on about? The French government have intervened, because they can, to cap rising energy bills by forcing EDF to sell electricity generated by its fleet of nuclear reactors to rival home suppliers at well below the current record high market prices. It is not a difficult concept to grasp.

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You will be if it is possible. That is the way the free market works.

Originally Posted by Mr K (Post 36112876)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...surge-pricing/

It was only a matter of time. Smart meters never were for the customers benefit. I shall protect my nice old meters with my life ! ;)

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36112923)

Meters have a finite life span before too much longer everyone will be forced to have a smart meter as dumb meters are replaced when eol

Originally Posted by joglynne (Post 36112934)

This just happened to us. Our gas meter was last changed over 19 years ago and Octopus informed us it needed replacing. As un-smart meters aren't being fitted we had to have a smart gas meter and at the same time opted to get our 18 year old Electricity meter updated as well.

The switch over was carried out by an E-on fitter and he ran into no problems and within an hour of leaving our In Home Display (Chameleon SMETS2) was working and both meter readings were showing.

This was 3 weeks ago and everything seems fine.Working on an average 24hr cost compared to last months bill the figures look OK as well.

Bonus is that neither John nor I have to crawl under the stairs any more.

Sorry for going off topic.

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36112946)

Originally Posted by Sephiroth (Post 36112946)

Originally Posted by joglynne (Post 36112949)

I find your assumption that we didn't consider, or check, what we opted to do to be a tad insulting.

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36112953)

All meters have to be "calibrated for accuracy" and some types fall out of specification quite quickly (around 5 years).

Once recalibrated, they were usually refitted at another location.

Originally Posted by Taf (Post 36112953)

All meters have to be "calibrated for accuracy" and some types fall out of specification quite quickly (around 5 years).

Once recalibrated, they were usually refitted at another location.

Originally Posted by Tinky (Post 36113146)

I've just had an email from Octopus energy to tell me that I have not sent them a meter reading for 4 months. I have already told them I am not one of their customers and I am still awaiting from them a refund of the credit I had with Avro. :rolleyes: :banghead:

Originally Posted by Tinky (Post 36113146)

I've just had an email from Octopus energy to tell me that I have not sent them a meter reading for 4 months. I have already told them I am not one of their customers and I am still awaiting from them a refund of the credit I had with Avro. :rolleyes: :banghead:

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36113151)

Did you move from Octopus after Avro went bust and you moved to them then ? I had my refund sorted ages ago it is shocking that some still have not had theirs. Did you get the final bill ?

Originally Posted by Tinky (Post 36113157)

I moved to Bulb before Octopus contacted me to say they would be our new supplier. I replied back that I didn't want to be their customer as I had moved to Bulb and could they please send final bill and refund my credit. I heard no more until today.

Originally Posted by Tinky (Post 36113157)

I moved to Bulb before Octopus contacted me to say they would be our new supplier. I replied back that I didn't want to be their customer as I had moved to Bulb and could they please send final bill and refund my credit. I heard no more until today.

Originally Posted by Tinky (Post 36114712)

Up until September last year we paid £71.00 per month for dual with Avro Energy and were £62.39 in credit. When we were advised they were going bust I searched on line for a new supplier. We were told Octopus was taking over and they wanted £136 per month. We swapped to Bulb instead for £107 pm only to be told shortly after it was to be increased to £115pm, fair enough. But today not only do we find that Octopus require us to pay the interim time of one month between swaps of £23.61 but Bulb has now told us payments will increase to £168 pm as from April! Meaning we will now be expected to pay £1164 per year more. As OAP's on a fixed income who feel the cold badly, where are we going find this extra money, on top of TV licence charges and cost of living increases? :mad:

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36114714)

We got our good news from Bulb today as well (electricity only in our case). What’s particularly irksome is that they have near doubled the standing charge (from 27p to 50p per day) which seems calculated to ensure their customers find it harder to reduce their bills by switching appliances off.

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36114716)

if others are less I would switch if possible for that alone

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36114714)

We got our good news from Bulb today as well (electricity only in our case). What’s particularly irksome is that they have near doubled the standing charge (from 27p to 50p per day) which seems calculated to ensure their customers find it harder to reduce their bills by switching appliances off.

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36114718)

Yes, while everyone is going to be expensive this year, if there’s scope for improved energy efficiency in the home, then a supplier with a lower standing charge is a tempting prospect. However as we’re going to be moving house this summer I can’t be bothered :D

Originally Posted by Paul (Post 36114728)

I looked at Octopus [ briefly ].
While their standing charge was smaller, their kwh charges were way higher (like 25%+ more).
You would need a hell of a lot of improved efficiency for it to work out cheaper. :td:

My bills from April this year are going to be about 2.5x last year (when I was on a good fixed rate). :sleep:

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36114727)

Ofgem are responsible for that. Changing the standing charge price cap for electricity from 25p to 45p.
Link

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36114735)

Standing charges vary around the country because (in theory at least) they reflect the differing costs levied by the regional DNOs. Mine is SSE, whose northern Scottish network is unsurprisingly one of the most expensive ones. The price cap on the standing charge must be variable seeing as ours is going well north of 45p.

(Edit) the rates on the Ofgem website are averages, not absolute, and do indeed vary by DNO and meter type.

Originally Posted by nomadking (Post 36114738)

Nevertheless the increase in standing charges is down to Ofgem, and of course that the distribution charges to the suppliers has gone up.

Originally Posted by Chris (Post 36114718)

Yes, while everyone is going to be expensive this year, if there’s scope for improved energy efficiency in the home, then a supplier with a lower standing charge is a tempting prospect. However as we’re going to be moving house this summer I can’t be bothered :D

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter (Post 36114741)

Unless you're prepared to go onto a fixed rate that's higher than the price cap, I think you'll find that no other company will be willing to take you on as they would be losing money on your account (that's what I found anyway).

Maybe moving house changes this, as what would people do if they moved to an area that their old supplier doesn't serve? Surely they couldn't leave them with no energy supplier!

Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36114813)

What we need is a permanent warm summer :D Ok you still need electricity but you'd save a shed load on heating bills if you use gas.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36115041)

Just move to England - warmer temperatures,

Originally Posted by 1andrew1 (Post 36115041)

Just move to England - warmer temperatures, cheaper energy distribution costs and a better rugby team! :D

Originally Posted by Mad Max (Post 36115112)

Is that the same team that lost to Scotland recently? ;)

Originally Posted by Jaymoss (Post 36115227)

The increase in the electric standing charge is a massive screw you to us all

Originally Posted by Carth (Post 36115279)

Isn't it strange that everything designed to 'save you money' ends up costing you more . . one way or another

Originally Posted by Hugh (Post 36115288)

Aye, lad - I remember the good old days, when we had things we don’t have now.

You know, like Ricketts, Polio, Diptheria, Smallpox, windows frozen on the inside, outside toilets, houses without bathrooms, rationing… ;)