Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Part of the problem is that some people don’t believe there’s a problem... :(

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

So it is dualling then .. :)

---------- Post added at 13:35 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------

Are you saying that racism is one of these "smallest of things"? You will get people who overreact on both sides of the political spectrum ..

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Nope. I said it'll get worse, because the actual message just gets lost, hijacked, amplified etc etc. As seen here, everything gets argued to death and without any outcome.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Trump is ordering a database of excessive force complaints to be created so corrupt police cannot avoid tracking by switching departments.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

That's a start.

I think a big part of America's problem is guns. Every misunderstanding, every dodgy bit of policing, every difficult suspect can very quickly escalate.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

If you can find it still I'd recommend watching the episode of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver from the other week. A really powerful breakdown of why the police in the US have such a problem with race.

A bit of it is covered here:
https://www.yesmagazine.org/video/jo...dern-policing/

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b...0ce9e1d79e0c36

This link from today’s Times

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

is the problem to do with Socio-economic prospects of Black kids, the lack of stable father figures, gang culture and black on black violence........................or 200 year old statues?

I know what I would be focusing my attention on.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Here is a Bristol councilor's take on slavery.

Elfan Ap Rees claimed he was stating 'an historical fact' when he said that black slaves exported to the Americas were better off than if they had stayed in Africa

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...after-22205375

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

You know people can focus on more than one thing at a time. It's not an either / or thing.

---------- Post added at 15:16 ---------- Previous post was at 15:07 ----------

And this from the Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...le-in-lockdown

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

We need to start by educating ourselves. This list is a starter, it's not one I've created. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...OBBeHvJGw/edit

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Such figures are meaningless without other facts to give the whole picture.

For all we know they may be 10 times more likely to break the lockdown ..

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

You know, people need to think about what's important.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Don't you just love it when Guardian readers show how stupid they really are and how the Guardian words their report to suit the agenda.

92% of fixed penalty notices were issued to non-BAME ethnicity.

Yet @BenMcr you expect to use the article to prove

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

8% of fixed penalty notices - Cumbria has around 1.6% BAME.

https://www.cumbriaobservatory.org.uk/population/

And that’s just one area - the survey was the whole country.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics, it never gets old.
As a friend of mine once noted, you can "prove" almost anything with [the right] statistics.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Not a brand I am familiar with, but I bet Uncle Ben’s crapping himself. They’ll be after Levi Roots next...............

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

:Yes:

Data stays the same, it's how you present it that makes it work for you and the agenda you're pushing ;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

In which you conveniently ignore the majority of the 8% were not Cumbria residents.

I'll repeat the quote to allow it to penetrate.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

And how did they know this before they issued the ticket?

And you're ignoring the rest of the country...

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Solutions? Anyone got any?:banghead:

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I posted a wealth of links earlier - we all need to educate ourselves.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Whatever the answers are you're not going to please or satisfy everyone. Just lately I've seen more racism from black against whites but right now we (white) can't say anything. I don't quite understand what BLM UK's goals are but it seems to be having more of a negative effect and creating a bigger divide. But these are just my opinions or views and they will get pulled to bits because no one can agree on anything regardless.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Solutions? Some practical ways to ensure equality for all disenfranchised groups? Apart from a government actually insisting that everyone gets the same treatment whatever the situation,might be a start.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

There is no simple solution. Not one that can be answered here. We all have different opinions and viewpoints based on our own surroundings and experiences or what we believe based on the type of media we rely on.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Do you think some groups should get better treatment than others ?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

If you have proven examples of racism from anyone to anyone else then yes you can say something, and neither BLM or anyone else are trying to stop you.

---------- Post added at 09:25 ---------- Previous post was at 09:24 ----------

Who is suggesting that currently?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I was asking Maggy about her post.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I don't believe I even suggested it.That's the usual red herring of those who don't want to engage in a realistic discussion.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

It's still all a heart issue and that's hard to change (impossible) to do just with external changes though improving the external should still happen.

But I was thinking about social and locality and
1)Richer areas until poor families (are) settle(d) there. Then the middle class move out taking the wealth with them - race can be a factor but can just be not like us. It's harder to pull up and pull down. It doesn't even have to be bad behaviour, if say the new comers run a business from the home or other things that "disrupt".
2)Poor areas regardless of race -we encourage kids to do well so they can improve themselves, get educated, get a good job - all good but then in many cases they move out of the area.
3)In some cases wealthier people see "opportunity" in poorer areas, move in, spend money "gentrify" the area and make it more expensive so poorer people may need to move out
4)There are some in the poorer areas who don't want to see the area progress as they lose their control

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

1) Delusional to say bad behaviour isn't the main factor. If the "poor" behave well, nobody will really notice any effect.
2) Fact of life, that "doing well" means moving away from a "poor" area. Same all around the World.
3) Nice areas become more expensive to live in. If the area becomes "nicer", that must be because the "not nice" people have moved out. Harlem was "nice" until "we're not allowed to say" happened.
4) Control aka Power.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Best of luck with that when Religion rears its ugly head ;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

1)"Bad" behaviour doesn't always mean the same. It could just be having more cars, or less nice cars or driving a motor scooter.
2)Yes fact of life but if they want to improve their area they may need to stay and build up the area from the inside. Make the improvement "organic"
3)Again true but ideally it should happen more slowly and allow the current residents to also build up. The problems really happen when the richer buy don't really move in. Either they buy to rent/holiday home or they use as dorm but spend outside the area.
4)Yup, there are those who do very nicely from poverty. And this is where it can really butt up to the BLM debate. It's unfortunately true that many of these are black and so are their victims (who may have to work for them). If that's true it means the police intelligence will show this and likely target black people because there is a higher chance of a "successful" stop.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

1) Unless the "poor" cars are that dilapidated, it's unlikely to make much of a difference. If they're that poor they won't have cars to be visible in the first place.
2) The enhanced job opportunities are unlikely to be in that area. Why shouldn't they want to move?
3) The 2nd/holiday home argument is a bit of nonsense. When have the "poor" ever been able to buy properties there? Why should being "poor" give them the automatic right to live there, buy up the properties and then sell them on for a profit, and you're back to square one. The wages and job opportunities are said to be that bad, that no matter what, they couldn't afford to buy a property.

4) If an identifiable group has a higher chance of finding something, then that is exactly the reason they SHOULD be stopped. Eg Several years ago at the Notting Hill Carnival, a group of police decided NOT to search somebody, another group of police weren't so fussy and searched them, finding a gun in the process. Little point stopping little old ladies on the street.:rolleyes: Then again if little old ladies on the street were found to be involved in crime, then they too would be stopped.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I’m officially bored of the BLM Issue, Lisa Nandy and the BBC, with the absolute laughable reaction and reporting Of what Dominic Raab said today about the “taking the knee” action.

I wish Aliens would invade, or Yellowstone erupt or something.

They’re failing to take the country with them.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Uncle Ben's rice to change the box cover image...


https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/18/uncle...ices-12869101/


So do not put any black brothers on any product. The world's gone mad.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Called it.

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/show...&postcount=518

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I remember seeing this at the cinema when I was 9...


https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/18/uncle...ices-12869101/


Is this to be banned...

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

There's a train of thought that says that treating someone equally isn't the same thing as treating them the same way. This is why you, for example, get different qualifying conditions for job applications from minorities to encourage them to apply where they are under represented and to try to level out injustices of the past.

I think that doing this causes more problems than it solves though; apart from for disabled people who could need special treatment for practical reasons eg if a non disabled person asked a supermarket to carry their shopping for them to their car, they would probably be refused on the grounds that it was a cash & carry outlet. However, someone with a disability that required extra help would be legally entitled to receive this extra help.

This leads to the disabled person obtaining a superior service, but it would be appropriate to do so.

I don't think that race should lead to any more (or less) favourable treatment. It fuels and causes resentment etc and outweighs any positives that arise from such measures.

---------- Post added at 21:09 ---------- Previous post was at 21:05 ----------

We are going to end up in a situation where nobody dare represent black people on their products (in the same way that many are now too afraid to mention them in conversation for fear of saying the 'wrong' thing).

Blanking them out and pretending that they no longer exist is hardly going to help matters.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Well that's at least two of us then :tu:


. . . *slouches off to You Tube to watch some Bernard Manning . . or maybe Charlie Williams if it's still there*

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Wondering when they're going to get around denouncing the well-known slave trader, the prophet Muhammad.

Link

So the "colonial powers" were last in, and first out, yet they are the ones criticised.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1592512247

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Unfortunately, this isnt what happens.
This kind of stupidity does nothing to help race relations or racial harmony, you can imagine the "outrage" if it were reversed.


Yep, the insanity continues :dozey:

Look out Paul & Stevie, they'll be banning Ebony & Ivory at this rate. :erm:

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Bringing religion into it always works well...
https://www.churchofengland.org/more...se-over-racism

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

apologise for unconscious racism ? They really have lost the plot.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

The thing is, I believe, British people are tolerant, accepting, just want to get along, don’t like fuss, don’t like being pushed around, are quiet in public but have strong views in private.

The longer this bollocks goes on the weaker The BLM / antifa, Call them what you will, Position will become.

I accept all the arguments of colonialism, slave trading. But in the UK.

We did not have slaves. (Arguably the white working class were not far removed)

We did not have the KKK and lynch mobs going around killing black people

We do not have a scandal of police killing black people.

Racism exists, of course it does, but inequality exists at all levels against all ethnicities, and should be tackled together with no one group given priority- surely that is equality?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Unconscious bias is a well known thing, it isn't a specific to racism.

https://royalsociety.org/topics-poli...onscious-bias/

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I never said it cant exist. Apologising for it however is just nuts.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

This seems one of the conscious ones:

Black Durham trainee vicar denied job at 'white' church

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Absolutely, and it's too easy to forget (or dismiss) the others when one (the largest? ) is in the headlines :Yes:

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Like there aren't a whole bunch of black only churches.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

There are black majority churches yes, but I'd be interested in any examples you can find of where a white person was excluded from them.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Which ones?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Reality and truth are strange concepts to some.:rolleyes:


To suggest they don't exist is just delusional.

In the Real World.
List of Black Churches on "Operation Black Vote" Website.
Link

Link

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

If you're bored talking about racism, imagine how exhausted the people who are experiencing it must feel.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

As I referred to already, it says:
Not 'Black exclusive churches'.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

White people stating they are bored of black lives matter is a curious one. As a white, heterosexual, Christian, male there’s a huge vast of equality based rights campaigns that I personally have no affinity to. Would I go out my way to say that lesbian rights bored me? I’d probably wish them well in principle and continue on with my day oblivious.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

And the other link which refers to "Black churches"?

Any examples of White exclusive churches?

How many White vicars working in Black [majority] churches? They wouldn't even bother applying.


There's even a Council of Black Led Churches.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I see nothing in any of the links that still work to say they exclude anyone from any background.
That doesn't mean that the churches would exclude them if they did, and I wouldn't agree if they did purely on the basis of race either.
Again not an indication of exclusion, but a co-ordination of a minority element of society to increase their voice
https://birmingham.cylex-uk.co.uk/co...-19209942.html
Many other minorities in the UK will co-ordinate through similar umbrella groups to speak with 'one voice' on issues that affect them.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Depends how often it's shoved down your throat. ;)

An obviously intelligent chap like yourself must surely be aware that, when you're bombarded with the same information over and over again, it simply becomes a monotonous drone.
I've been hearing about racism all my life, it was around before I was born, and will be around when I've turned to dust.

That's the human species (and nature) for you I'm afraid, we're all still just Primates at the end of the day, with the 'unconscious' traits of tribalism and territoriality still there in our biological makeup.

Given another 50 years you might reduce it to a minimal acceptable level, but with the threats of Global Warming (another monotonous drone), ever increasing population, food/water shortages, and madmen with red buttons, it could all come back very quickly with loud bangs and mushroom clouds :erm:



. . . or of course a meteor strike, Yellowstone eruption, another Krakatoa etc :p:

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

:tu: Some sense at last.

---------- Post added at 09:18 ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 ----------

So we needn't bother doing anything.Apathy should be our watchword.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

As for "The Camptown Ladies" :erm:

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

1) I've lived in areas where the "poor" where the ones with multiple cars, satellite TV etc as they weren't paying for their accommodation. Those who did work were sometimes worse off.
2) First you don't need to live and work in the same area and also you could remain in your community and work to improve it, spend your money there.
3)In some areas people could afford properties on wages available in that area and property prices reflected the area. But that (and the fact it's often a pretty area) made properties of interest to people outside the area who could offer more. The 2nd/holiday home is of relevance if it removes properties from the local housing stock.
4)Yup and it becomes a vicious circle.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I wouldn't know, i wouldn't be so woke as to suppose to speak for them.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I've had people try to "out woke" me on things that happened to my own family.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

If you're 'bored' the thread mate, you shouldn't have started it ! Maybe it isn't going the way you hoped ? See you managed to get the 'woke' word in though, so that must make you feel better ;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

"so woke as to suppose to speak for them"?

Well done, you have won the Brendan O'Neill award for "straw man argument of the day for stating others are doing something they are not as a defence for what you previously posted"... ;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

So what's your stupid excuse for asking him to do exactly that?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Thanks for your participation.

I was bored of The Walking Dead, but still continued to watch it for several seasons in the hope that something new and interesting might happen.

Same thing here.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Sounds like a made up story to stoke outrage, as "Swing Low Sweet Chariot" was used during the Civil Rights marches in the USA in the 1960s.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Good Lord no, we should carry on destroying everything around us, and making everyones life a misery so we can all be on an equal footing :rolleyes:


I see they got to Penny Lane too (can't be bothered to link)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

One statue...

Mr. Hyperbole appears to be busting your posts. ;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Being reported on numerous press web sites including BBC news. I think it's unlikely that the BBC would run a story that wasn't authentic?

But then the standards at the BBC are in terminal decline.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Let's hope they get rid of rap and hip hop and all that related rubbish;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

go for a drive, test your eyes ;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Latest BBC article : https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53096584

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

No one is really calling on the RFU to ban it though, they seem to have taken on the reviews themselves.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Right so either:
a) they are scared of potential scrutiny
b) they are using it get attention

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Yes, they're just being thoughtful and reflective.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

I think it's just organisations are proactively trying to consider these things and occasionally missing the mark, or even just getting too much attention for what they assume are just cautious steps.

There now seems to be an attempt to put some of the more frivolous issues front and centre as opposed to issues such as if they are inequalities in the justice system, if there is systematic racism in society and has Britain confronted the issue of it's past sufficiently. You could argue that song might fall under the last bracket but really it's not something people have paid attention too. Instead, they've been focusing on more obvious examples such as the Rhodes statue.

Outside of Twitter has anyone seen any real campaign to change Uncle Ben's rice or Swing Low, Sweet Chariot? It's manufactured outrage. People want silly examples to get outraged about rather than serious ones.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

This is not a attempt to put frivolous things forward. This is a scapegoat response from people who don't know how to wash the sin away. They look at the systems and either cannot see a way to reduce racism or are prohibited someway.

Truth is the definition of systemic racism is so flexible that it cannot be solved meaningfully.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

It keeps the woke warriors happy.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

It also allows some people to call people they disagree with "woke", which some people think is an insult.

Better "woke" than "broke"... ;)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

It's the ones that are not "woke" that are being fired or forced to resign, and therefore ending up broke.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Who's been fired?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Any examples of where not being "woke" or not supporting BLM and they are still in the job?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

:tu:

---------- Post added at 19:16 ---------- Previous post was at 19:10 ----------

So is it insurmountable to actually sort out discrimination? Is it something we have to live with because we can't deal with it?Is it easier to bring up stuff about statues,certain ads,certain songs/nursery rhymes rather than attempt to actually deal with the issue of actually making sure that equality is for everyone. Do we have to avoid finger wagging to actually move forwards?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Well at this point a normal activist organisation would present some proposals which rightly or wrongly would be implemented. But they don't. Instead we turn on each other and tear down the culture, during an international crisis. Which is the point.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Rob Liddle, Alexandra Phillips, Sam Ashworth-Hayes, Tom Slater, Toby Young, Brendan O’Neill, Guido Fawkes, et al, and others working for the Daily Mail, Telegraph, Spiked, Spectator, Times, etc.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Toby Young was sacked from several positions. How many of those people are not self employed or employed by explicitly anti woke companies.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

All depends on how much their employers support their right to say things. They and their employers constantly face a barrage of abuse because of it.

Try saying "All Lives Matter", and see where it gets you.

Just look at all the flak recently aimed at JK Rowling. If she wasn't already successful, how do you think it would go? Would and will the BBC still be interested in anything she creates?

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Didnt he get executed about 400 years ago. :D

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

It was you who made a contentious statement that not being woke got you fired... without any apparent evidence. I would suggest a few people on this forum aren't woke and haven't been fired for it.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

If you have an opinion that the woke folk don't like you get hounded out by the wokerazzi,that's why people have to quickly issue a statement saying they support a load of stuff that they don't really give a damn about.

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Ain’t that the truth.

The level of corporate virtue signalling has been breathtaking

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_Fawkes_(website)

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

Nice try Maggy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Fawkes

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

OK clever clogs try this..https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/lobby...fawkes-tweets/

Re: Black Lives Matter
 

How? The original reference (post 590) was obviously referring to the Guido Fawkes website (order-order.com) and I think Paul’s reply was fairly clearly marked as a joke by the use of a :D ...