Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I think Pearls Cafe by The Specials covers it all a heel of a lot more accurately (well at least the "it's all a load of..... " bit)

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Thank God Boris finally got us out of the EU then :D

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Wonder if that's part of it? Admit he's a crook and a charlatan over this and inevitably his rationale for brexit is then in question, still it won't last for ever and then there will be no hiding his government reeks of sleeze every bit as much as John Major's

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

He won't be able to blame the EU any longer, they were a useful fall guy.

He could always try blaming the BBC, but the link to national govt. might be tricky....

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

my heart bleeds for ya, really, it does :rolleyes:

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

That's nice for you, how quaint

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

No worries, anything to help you overcome your angst ;)

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I'd say it was more disappointment that angst, disappointed that yet again a tory government drowns itself in sleeze

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

We must be lucky that we don't get upset by a bit of painting and decorating in someone else's house, I'm so glad I'm not delicate and easily upset.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Or don’t understand it’s not about the "painting and decorating", it’s about how the funding has been obfuscated - if someone else pays for something, that gives them influence/leverage over the recipient.

It’s the fact the the country’s leader could have received an illegal payment, and then lies about it, that gets people "easily upset"…

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

You should be concerned about corruption whoever is in charge.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

:tu:

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

It's about cheap political point scoring by a bunch of desperate nobody's, with nothing better to do than watch the PM's new paint dry and try to come up with ridiculous conspiracy theories about a simple bit of decorating.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

You might be missing the point.


Boris was promoting our country, Liebour was attacking it, that's why they lost in areas that where original anti Tory.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Why is attacking corruption attacking the country? The Prime Minister and David Cameron are not the country and should be held to account.
Labour lost for many reasons, having the incompetent left-winger Corbyn in charge was foremost amongst them.

---------- Post added at 10:19 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------

Like Theresa May's redecoration of No. 10, I don't think that comment will age well. ;)

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

£88,000 of decorating, of which £58,000 was originally funded from unknown sources - but you knew that, and are just repeating the same old mantra over and over again...

It's not a conspiracy theory if it's true... :)

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

If.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

It's still cheap political point scoring though.

Mind you, it's about the oppositions limit because they have nothing else in the larder with which to cook up a good fight :D

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

We all know if he hadn't done anything wrong they wouldn't have been able to slap Keir down fast enough. The fact they've not done it speaks volumes, there's nothing a politician likes more than political point scoring. Borris being innocent would be an open goal for the Conservatives that they wouldn't go out of their way to miss.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Exactly. I advise those who still cling on to the hope that there's nothing in the stories to cancel their Sunday newspapers. ;)

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Yep that's a conspiracy theory unless you can prove otherwise.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I don’t have to - the 3 investigations underway at the moment will be doing that… ;)

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Let's be honest all leaders have parties they are beholdent to. Personally l couldn't care less who paid for what . Not so simple to think that trade union s don't ' fund " LABOUR . IF THATS THE BEST. THE NEWS CAN FIND . L will stop looking at all

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

It's not the funding, it's the hiding of where the funding is coming from.

We know that the Unions fund Labour - it's documented, so can be commented upon. We know that businesses contribute to the Tories - it's documented, so it can be queried.

If any politicians is hiding where their funds are coming from, it means they can be influenced without the knowledge of the Electorate - that is the whole point of the Members Interest Register and the Ministers Code of Conduct; transparency, openness, and the ability for other to say "hold on a minute, that group just gave you £nnnn, and now you've passed a bill/spoken in Parliament/had a meeting with Ministers about them".

Also, it can be used as leverage if it's below the radar - "hey, remember that £nnnn I gave you just before you supported a Bill that benefited my cause/business/Union? It would be a shame if that was leaked to the media...".

We know a lot of politicians are lying, cheating, dishonest poltroons - that's why we have processes and procedures to try and limit the more egregious exceptions.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

More like you don't like Boris and are desperate for some mud to stick, reality is most people just don't care. there are bigger things to worry about.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

More like you just repeat CCHQ soundbites, and are trying to get people to ignore potential corruption and lawbreaking.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

And if we do get a Labour Prime Minister in the future who does something similar, an attack from the Conservatives will be weaker as he can just cite the precedent of PM Boris Johnson. The Conservatives will be less inclined to push the issue and the country will be more corrupt as a result.

What comes around, goes around. Corruption is bad for a country whichever colour rosette it is wearing.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

If I was in CCHQ I'd be desperate to get rid of an incompetent, corrupt, lying buffoon before the next election.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Your views are not a million miles away from the Scottish Tory leader.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56962642

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

This.

In fact, its never ending, and got tiresome long long ago.
There is always someone slinging mud to try and scrore points.
All that changes over the years is the names of the slinger and target.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

So as i have already voted by mail i can say this. As long i am able to draw breath i will never vote for a Labour party who allowed there leader to take us into a war based on a lie and a leader who fully supported the IRA. That alone makes them not worth my vote.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Trouble is if you apply this criteria to every election, you'll never vote for any but newly-formed parties. Would you vote for a Party that upheld slavery? Would you vote for a party that signed the Munich agreement? How far back do you go in the history of a political party to find a policy or action that you vehemently disagree with.

As someone who has voted for several parties (Conservative, Green, Labour, Liberal Democrat, Independent) I take a view at each election and use my vote accordingly. I don't treat political parties like football teams who get your unstinting support from cradle to grave regardless of their performance.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I also take a view at each election and have voted for Conservative, Green, Liberal Democrat, Independent however i can never forgive Labour for what they did. The biggest bad taste for me is the link to the IRA and that will never go away for me.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Looks like the writing's on the wallpaper for kier

voters want to hear about jobs – not Boris Johnson’s wallpaper

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/148341...-keir-starmer/

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Can you expand upon what you mean by this?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

He already did, above, and you already read and replied to that post :confused:

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Which leader does he mean? I'm not aware of any Labour leader who "fully supported the IRA."

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Me neither but I'm sure he will enlighten us..

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

He said link to the IRA.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

He said

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

And "and a leader who fully supported the IRA."

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Congratulations ya got me;)

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

When it comes to the IRA there was no bigger supporter than Comrade Corbyn. Labour knew that and still elected him there leader, thankfully he's a no body now. I was in NI when he was on a parade alongside Gerry Adams. He called IRA terrorists Hero's

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

You'll get no argument from me.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Do you have a link for his calling IRA terrorists heroes?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

No link,, i was part of the cordon put in place to protect him as he was a British MP. So end of the day you believe it or you don't. It was after the SAS killed 7 terrorists at Loughgall. Have you every wondered why veterans hate his guts so much.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

:tu:

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I would never vote for a Labour Party candidate when Corbyn was in charge of the Party. There's lots of very good reasons that veterans and others hate him, I've never wondered too much about which one people might pick.

But your being part of a cordon to protect Jeremy Corbyn does not mean that he fully supported the IRA. I take an evidenced-based approach on such matters hence my enquiry.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I am in agreement with that.

---------- Post added at 13:24 ---------- Previous post was at 13:22 ----------

This didn’t help his standing with the military

https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...rthern-ireland

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

If Labour loose Hartlepool to the Tories the writing is on the wall for Starmer.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Nah Starmer won't be gone if he loses Hartlepool. The Parliamentary Labour Party won't want to risk an alternative candidate and given he has only been in the post for a year it will seem rather reactionary to ditch him so soon. It will also be considered not entirely unexpected given the only reason they didn't lose it last time is the high amount of the vote for Brexit Party got.

Besides Starmer's personal ratings aren't too bad (especially compared to Corbyn) so whilst there will be pressure for Labour to rethink its approach they'll probably want to keep him as leader.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Both my dad and I have already done our postal vote, my dad is 77 and all his life voted Labour.


But no more, he like me have voted Tory.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

It's odd for people to stick with Corbyn but leave because of Starmer? Is that because Starmer is less left-wing?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Why, did you fill it in and post for him ? ;)

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Starmer is losing Hartlepool because an increasing number of traditional Labour voters think the party stands for this sort of thing, which I am seeing pop up increasingly on the social medias:

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...1&d=1620126284

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Labour stopped being the party of the working class a long time ago, I posted as much years ago on here.

Labour are now firmly entrenched in the politics of identity: BLM, Trans-rights, me too etc etc and most of the country doesn't give a monkeys about that. The quality of politicians within their ranks is poor, and they still haven't got their head around the fact that their previous heartlands think differently and have different issues than within their Metro-Westminster-Bubble.

They managed to lose Scotland, when they had a history of great Scottish Labour politicians and leaders - that alone made winning a general election difficult.

They are now losing the North, and once they've lost the North they'll never win a general election ever again.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I think that isn't a problem Starmer introduced though rather one that he is trying to fight after Corbyn left that impression.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I don't think he stands much chance of achieving that. Labour hasn't been defined by socialist economics for decades now. Its core message has long been socially 'progressive' and what was previously a party for the working class has been hollowed out and filled in by assorted cranks and pressure groups whose aims are at such odds with society as a whole that the '****/awful' sentiment expressed by that admittedly rather blunt satire has begun to have a ring of truth about it. You can't constantly bang on about wanting to radically change everything without sounding like you hate what's already there.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

It first came apparent to the electorate how endemic the issue was with the famous G.Brown incident and the "bigoted" woman, it was further underlined with Thornberry's mocking of white van man and the Cross of St George. It was then emblazoned with massive neon lights, huge Doric columns and an amazing fireworks display, when the Brexit vote was ignored, attempted to be reversed and the voters told that they were the problem.

And if the opposition continue to shoot the messenger, they will always be the opposition.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I remember reading in Flip Chart Fairies that the sweet ground in politics which would gain most votes was being economically left wing (eg bailing out loss-making companies to retain jobs) and socially right wing (eg bring back the death sentence for some offences, don't let unskilled immigrants into the country, etc)

The Conservative Party under Johnson now ticks both boxes successfully. It has overturned previous Conservative thinking on state investment in industry. The Conservative Mayor of the Tees Valley won his seat on a promise to nationalise the local airport.

By following an interventionist approach in industry, it gives Labour less room to challenge the government and propose alternative ideas. At the moment, traditional home counties Conservative voters seem happy to go along with this approach as long as taxes don't rise but their house values do.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I think he can move it in the right direction.

He seems to have at least diagnosed the part of the problem: that you can't expect to lead a country you give the impression of disliking. He has been making moves to introduce some patriotic aspects to his campaigning even with things like ensuring there are more union jacks in their videos and party materials.

It's going to take a while but he may be able to correct the image somewhat for whoever takes over. Besides you can cloak an argument for change in patriotic terms. NHS = British institution. Renationalising Rail? Making the network British again. Higher taxes on multinational companies? Protecting British companies.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Typical Left-Wing nonsense. I am surprised you haven’t raised that old chestnut that Conservatives are just sitting back thinking of Empire!

Where has the Prime Minister said he will bring back the death penalty?

As for unskilled workers, we don’t need anymore of them if we have enough of our own. This was one of the things that Brexit was all about and it’s what people think. Politicians ignore what the public want at their peril.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I can’t see Sir Kier himself ever making Prime Minister. His views don’t align with what Labour voters think and want and he is bland and uninteresting. I hope he leads Labour for many decades to come. :D

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I don't know if there's any stats available that imply red wall voters are any more pro or anti the death penalty than anywhere else in the country?

I know the below link is not in the so called Red Wall, but I would expect that they and anyone would want less of this:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...nts-Bible.html

and perhaps if the police had been as expeditious in investigating paedophile rings as they are in arresting or investigating people like this gentleman.

It is the descent into wokeness I think people are getting sick of, when what they want is jobs, regeneration and security.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Here is the original publication. It's more about the average British voter than just the red wall subset.
https://ukandeu.ac.uk/wp-content/upl...values-gap.pdf

"The UK in a Changing Europe is an impartial and independent organisation created to make the findings of academic research easily available to the widest possible audience."

---------- Post added at 15:33 ---------- Previous post was at 15:28 ----------

What do you think of this analysis?
https://flipchartfairytales.wordpres...e-culture-war/

---------- Post added at 15:42 ---------- Previous post was at 15:33 ----------

You can't win elections by just appealing to Labour or Conservative supporters. You need some cross-over appeal.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I don't disagree with it, it's a bit simplistic. The problem now is that ALL politicians are afraid of the culture war.

They, like anyone in the public domain, are afraid to speak out on issues for fear of being labelled racist, anti-trans, homophobic, islamaphobic etc.

Your report is correct in this but the Left put across the view that we are more racist society, that we are a more oppressive to minorities society when the fact just don't support that view.

The recent report into race is a perfect example, where because it didn't fit in with the narrative, the report itself was branded racist.

If the Left (and Labour along with it) continues to move down the Culture War/ Identity Politics route it will become a fringe organisation.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Is that report just not a good example of the Right stirring up the Culture Wars, knowing that the reaction of the Left will jar with the average voter?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

The reason we've improved in these areas is that people have had these fights already. Britain didn't wake up one day and decide that women should have the vote, that racism needs to be rooted out and that homosexuality should not be illegal. People argued and protested against a wider society that did not believe these things to be true. People campaigning on racist slogans and homosexuality being illegal was mainstream within many people's lifetimes.

I am not saying that every point made by people fighting a culture war is valid nor that this is the prime concern of most voters. However, it's worth remembering that when someone is arguing against racism or for trans-rights that history does something vindicate the minorities who at the time were pushing unpopular opinions.

That said I think the Labour Party needs to focus on people's material concerns. Getting too lost in social media battles as if that reflects the day to day concerns of people of all races and genders is a big mistake.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

No. The recent report on racism was a perfect example of the right (Incumbent Government) commissioning an independent report, a report that negates many of the assertions the left puts forward in the “culture wars”.

The left therefore reject the report and brand it racist.

So who on that evidence is “stirring” up the culture wars?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

The Government set the agenda by commissioning and leaking sections of the report, knowing they would be focused on and would get a reaction. If you failed to see the media management taking place then perhaps the government spin doctors have done their jobs particularly well.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56578839

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

From the authors of the report…

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-b1826273.html

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I’ve read the report Hugh so quote away. What the report negates is the lefts assertion that the country is institutionally racist and that the system is stacked against black or ethnic minorities. It does not say that racism does not exist.

In fact your quote captures it very well.

What it found was that the defining points around the success of an individual, for example, depended more on their social surroundings more than their skin colour, and that every ethnic group performed better than white working class ( I prefer white under class because most of their parents haven’t worked a day in their lives) kids, apart from those of Caribbean descent.

Black Africans being in the top percentile.

So to pin in it all on race is bollocks, but then everyone with half a brain over the past decade and a half has known that, but the left won’t accept it, as it destroys their narrative that everything is based on race when anyone with half a brain knows it based on economic, cultural and social structures.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

No one has ever said but people have said "race is a major factor" (these are two different things, but some people, in an attempt to twist things, try to use them interchangeably).

So, to say it has nothing to do with race is bollocks, but then anyone with half a brain over the past decade and a half has known that, but the right won’t accept it, as it destroys their narrative that everything is simplistic when anyone with half a brain knows it based on a mixture of race, economic, cultural and social structures.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

are you sure about that?

Robin DeAngelo and her institutional followers may disagree with you!

Who said that? I didn’t, and the report didn’t “, so where did you get that from? .............or did you make it up to suit your narrative?

Btw the rest of your post as I’m sure you thought was an oh so clever way to turn it around and use the same argument against me.........wasn’t. It was pretty lame and didn’t work.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Funny, I thought the Report was about the U.K.?

RDe’A is American, and she argues that racism is embedded throughout America's political systems and culture - we’re talking about Britain…

You stated an absolute No one pinned it all on race - I made up no more than you did…

To be clear, I think the U.K. has made progress over the last 30-40 years in the areas of Equality (Racial, Sexual, etc.), but we still have work to do…

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

There's still a lot of racism in this country. In many ways we've gone backwards over the last few years.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

In which ways?

---------- Post added at 09:33 ---------- Previous post was at 09:17 ----------

It is about about Britain, I cited RDe'A as a very widely known proponent of Critical Race Theory, which is the current foundation of pretty much all the Left's anti-racist rhetoric. Which cites white supremacy and the "whiteness" of society being the cause of all Black oppression.

It has been imported from the USA, much like BLM, into UK academia and more worryingly into corporate thinking.

The UK report pushed back against this ideology as skin colour the being the only factor in the success or failure in the UK and highlighted a whole spectrum of factors, including class, locality, family structure, culture etc.

This report was immediately rubbished by the Left and their proponents of CRT, and they branded the report itself as racist, as they can only see the world in the terms of skin colour, which is ironically quite racist.

Attached is an excellent paper on how CRT has permeated across the Atlantic. into the UK

http://wrap.warwick.ac.uk/111393/3/W...ngton-2018.pdf

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

This is a massive part of the problem, imo we should never get tired of rooting out corruption and dishonest practice, it should never be about liking someone as to excuse their malpractice, they need to be shamed everytime dodgy practice is uncovered whilst in and after they leave office and if the public find it tiresome, tough, it's to important to ignore and they need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law to and if the law isn't robust enough then change it

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I think part of it the selective outrage, people are angry when the 'other' side do it and will forgive their side.

But I also wonder if the MPs expensive scandal just means people don't care now. They don't really care if Johnson takes undeclared donations or if Government contracts go to their mates. 'They' are all at it and so on.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Probably spot on.

Does anyone on here vote for a party with the understanding that they (the party) will never, ever, take part in anything underhand, corrupt or involve telling the odd lie occasionally?

Come on, own up . . who believes their party of choice is whiter than white (ooooh am I allowed to say that? )

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

That's exactly what I expect of all of them, I will never accept the cop out of they're all at it, I expect it but when they're exposed I want them kicked out of office never to return. One of the politicians I most admire is John Profumo, not for what he did obviously but for the way he conducted himself afterwards and when he died I hope he felt he'd redeemed himself and his reputation

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

I most admire Christine Keeler.:D

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Well exactly. You can vote for a party on that assumption but you can still then criticise them for the things you don't like. I can understand people thinking the Tories are corrupt but they believe Labour/others are worse. It's when people go further than that and personally defend them as if they were their family that I can't understand.

Politicians going for power can screw you whoever you vote for and at any time and they won't give a flying toss if you've been loyal to them.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Corruption is now OK, that's what we're saying. Standards in public life have never been lower. Maybe its because our own standards have never been lower? We reap what we sow...

The biggest crook is running the country and laughing at us all, whether we voted for him or not. What jolly japes for him.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

The human race is naturally corrupt.

In the words of Mr Bridger, “ Camp Freddie, everybody in the world is bent”

It’s a matter of degrees.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

His lawyers have got a lot more to worry about !
Whether they'll get paid for starters, or be reliant on Boris to get a loan....

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

No, it isn’t- but a reasonable percentage is.

But the more people accept that view, the more it will be.

The old "why bother, everyone’s doing it" excuse, put forward by those who want excuse their own corruption (and I don’t mean you when I say this, I mean as a general "get out of jail" card).

As a race, we aspire to improve (abolishing slavery, trying for equal rights, the NHS, etc.), but there are always those who say "nah, why bother, it will just be abused/misused".

JFK said it best - "Some men see things as they are and ask 'Why?

' I dream things that never were and ask, 'Why not? '”

Robert Browning - "Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, Or what's a heaven for?"

If we can’t try to be better, what’s the point?

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Yes, getting caught lying to the House of Commons, thought it was well known

QFT :tu:

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

It’s official the Labour Party is screwed. If they can’t hold a seat that has always been Labour, after two years of Boris..........

Was is Teesside or around there, where is was said you could pin a rosette on a monkey and it would win? Well not any more.

Now that Labour have officially lost the working class what do they stand for? They could always rename themselves the Anti-curtains party. But don’t limit themselves to curtains they can fight against all forms of haberdashery.

Re: Sir Keir Starmer elected as new Labour leader
 

Labour didn't lose because they're going after the Tories for being corrupt. People don't care but it's a mistake to think they like that Johnson is doing these kinds of things. It's just they hate Labour more.

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

A problem will be, and always been, that the Left see any loss as being from Labour not being Hard Left enough. As if Labour voters turn to the Conservatives or even the Lib Dems, because Labour aren't far enough to the Left,:confused:

Re: Sir Keir’s Kerfuffle
 

Fundamentally bland centrism has had its day, and did a decent job at the time of holding together the left with enough Tory voters to win few elections society is more polarised now.