Re: Coronavirus
 

All over 70's are to imminently be instructed to self isolate for four months, even if they are not ill, by the government according to ITV in a wartime-style mobilisation effort in the next five to 20 days.

The Queen has already started after leaving Buckingham Palace just under an hour ago.

Edit: @ Nomadking I must have misunderstood about that bit, which i'm glad about. Thanks for the correction.

Re: Coronavirus
 

How would that work? Would they get priority for supermarket deliveries and the products needed for those orders? How do you distinguish between households that are all over 70 and those with younger people also there?



"The Sun" may have confused matters by describing the baby as a "victim", ie implying they had died.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Could have been misheard as another country. Not every death will be elderly and have underlying problems but of course given the evidence, the majority will. An earlier study that naturally focused on the original Chinese outbreak had something around 12,000 infected under 40 and 26 deaths.

The obvious reality is if the number drives up the chance someone seemingly healthy and under 40 will die. This is still in line with what we already know though. Basically there's still no need for a mass panic when it does happen.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But what are the mortality rates for those not elderly AND without an underlying condition? There will almost certainly be deaths in the non-elderly, but with underlying conditions, especially lung related ones.

Re: Coronavirus
 

EXACTLY what Stephen Fry recommends!

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/03/1...uHf-zxi-CBttwc

---------- Post added at 00:49 ---------- Previous post was at 00:44 ----------

The government say that they are to discuss getting food to the elderly via Uber Eats & Deliveroo! My one and only experience of Uber Eats was terrible, can't speak for Deliveroo.

A lot of our daytime customers are pensioners and they don't tend to like pizza, curry, fried chicken etc that these seem to provide, they're more likely to go for liver & onions etc.

Re: Coronavirus
 

In certain areas the elderly are "clumped" together in sheltered accomodation of one sort or another. Eg My road is a set of sheltered bungalows. Easier to make group grocery deliveries. Would be silly to have completely separate arrangements for each flat, bungalow, etc.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Experts?

Gimme a break.

They ain’t no experts, not experts qualified to give advice at the highest level, not one virologists, is recognised on there, looking at the list of names, just looks like a list of a bunch of mathematicians, students, probably greasy Corbynists, for all we know, wtf do they know about health related stuff and expert behavioural modelling when their expertise is maths, statisticians and PhD students, who btw are scientists in-waiting. They hold absolutely no qualification to give any advice on this pandemic.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Our local/neighbourhood Facebook pages are setting up "help groups" to contact aged/vulnerable people in their street, to get/drop off groceries etc. for them.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's good to hear. My next village have been talking about doing this tonight in their facebook group, so it's great that other places have had the same idea.

Re: Coronavirus
 

No. More like sheep.:D

Re: Coronavirus
 

And how will this be enforced?

Re: Coronavirus
 

I was discussing this with my friend who is 79 years old and as fit as a fiddle, i can assure you it's not going to happen without a fight,and as most old folk know they need lots of excise .ie getting outside not sofa surfing.

Re: Coronavirus
 

With flying drones: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--nN7k0Rc9U


But probably the enforcement may depend on the current load on the NHS. Old people wondering are mostly a threat to themselves (if they avoid others they will probably be fine). If they get ill and the NHS can treat them then they will, if they are at peak capacity then triage ethics usually favours the young.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Still not going to work..

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well yes, this is why Boris' plan is high risk. He is appealing to Blitz Spirit because he thinks he can be like Churchill and unify the country but that culture might no longer exist in Britain. So it may be a disaster but if you love the country you should make sure it isn't you that contributes to the disaster.

Re: Coronavirus
 

How about all those citizens under 50 staying indoors for 16 weeks in the spirit of the blitz to give older citizens a better chance of survival, V for victory and all that.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Because the plan is for the under 50s to GET THE VIRUS.

Once they pass through the illness (and hopefully survive) the country will have herd immunity and the over 50s can once again roam in security.

They may complain but they are not being treated like lab rats. This is to save THEIR LIVES not ours.

Re: Coronavirus
 

How about all the under 50s herded into large groups and infected [for the good of the elderly and the country ] and kept in quarantine indoors for 16 weeks, after that we can all roam around with security.

Re: Coronavirus
 

And what about older people who have no family at all and are generally cut off from society as who is going to help them as they are going to need help with quite a few things l would imagine.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Because enough of them will get sick enough to need medical treatment. Even within this group the infection needs to spread slowly enough not to overwhelm the NHS, and quickly enough that it’s dealt with before next winter’s flu season while the NHS is already under regular seasonal pressure.

Re: Coronavirus
 

But surely for most of them it will be nothing more that a mild cold or flu like illness:shrug:

Re: Coronavirus
 

BTW The European plan is to lock down everyone so it will be happening either way.

Re: Coronavirus
 

"Herd immunity" ISN'T about hoping as many people as possible and as quickly as possible, get the disease.


The bigger impact in certain other countries is likely to have been because of the absence of measures such as self-isolation and taking care with hand washing in the early stages. The situation became too advanced before those measures could be recognised as necessary.




A small gathering at a hospital led to the majority of cases in South Korea.
Link

Re: Coronavirus
 

I never said as quickly as possible.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The implication is there because otherwise how long are you expecting the elderly to self-isolate? Six months, a year , two years etc.

Re: Coronavirus
 

In the absence of a vaccine the plan will be to have 60 to 70% of under 50s get the virus at the rate the NHS can deal with complications (which there will be).

They will be aiming for a fast but controlled burn.

Re: Coronavirus
 

So "fast" and "quickly" don't mean the same thing?

Re: Coronavirus
 

Imprisonment in your own home for the crime of being old,yes that sounds like a winner to me,also these months/ years may well be all the lifetime these people have left, i can't imagine anyone agreeing to this.

Re: Coronavirus
 

When the alternative is being infected and a higher probability of dying, it may seem a reasonable option - it is, of course, up to them...

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's worse than that I'm afraid, you are being imprisoned for the crimes of the Chinese and Western officials who covered up this issue until it got this bad. And they won't get punished.

Re: Coronavirus
 

THE UK Government is preparing to introduce a package of emergency laws which would give police the power to detain infected people.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18...laws-outbreak/

Re: Coronavirus
 

I was told I must self isolate for at least four months.

---------- Post added at 13:49 ---------- Previous post was at 13:46 ----------

When the government pass these emergency laws, it won't matter if people agree to it or not, note the word 'instructed' not 'asked'.

There's been talk of using the police and the army to ensure compliance.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I think Dr Michael Head of Southampton university puts it well.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You seem to be the only one using the word "instruct".
Link

The compliance aspect is aimed at those WITH the virus.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The word 'instruct' was used by Robert Peston, ITV Political Editor, after his interview with the government.

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-14/...__NxjyiWCEVesk

Re: Coronavirus
 

This guy in this video explains in laymen terms why the government is doing things different to other countries...

Re: Coronavirus
 

So nothing official then.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sainsburys U turn:

Just received an email from the Sainsburys CEO. They've now scrapped their policy of letting people buy what they want and have put restrictions in place in line with the other supermarkets.

He also makes a plea for everyone to only buy what they need, unless they are shopping for elderly or vulnerable people.

Re: Coronavirus
 

l had that email early this morning as it would have been sent to everyone on their shopping database.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Following his fall out with the BBC & Channel 4, Robert Peston is one of the few (only?) journalists that Johnson will talk to.

I imagine it's right as, if it were to be voluntary, lots would ignore it. Isn't the plan to let about 60% of under 50's get it, whilst the elderly/ill are put into a virtual bubble?

Re: Coronavirus
 

We've had the same around 3:10 this morning. Our cupboards and freezers are well stocked anyway so no need to buy any extra. Plenty of toilet rolls as well because Lidl had a half price promotion a couple of weeks ago.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's a good way of explaining it in layman's terms. The only problem I can see though is that AFAIK they still aren't sure if people can catch it again after having had it once and recovered.

If they can, what next?

Re: Coronavirus
 

You can’t catch the same virus again. If it mutates rapidly, you could catch a mutated form later, but that would technically not be the same virus. So far scientists have identified many dozens of mutated variations on the original infection but they are all essentially still the same virus. To give you some idea how far a coronavirus might have to mutate in order to become sufficiently different to cause reinfection, a Dutch laboratory has had some early success with a vaccine for SARS1, which killed around 7,000 people in 2002-2003. SARS1 and the present virus are both coronaviruses; the present one is also designated SARS2. So even though this one is sufficiently different to be a distinct virus, immunity against one does appear, at this stage, to confer immunity against the other.

In any case, the government’s present strategy would still protect against the coronavirus causing covid-19.

I also don’t believe at present there is any credible evidence that this virus exhibits rapid mutation leading to so-called re-infection. There are a couple of anecdotal reports but these are being pounced on by a global news media whose entire operation has now been given over to coronavirus coverage. They’re going to repeat anything anyone says about it, without necessarily assessing its credibility or assigning its proper significance first.

Re: Coronavirus
 

BREAKING: Spain's COVID-19 death toll has more than doubled overnight, the countries health minister stated that Spain has recorded 288 deaths since the start of the pandemic, up from 136 yesterday. In 24 hours, it saw 7,753 confirmed infections, up from 5,700 the day before with around half of them concentrated in the capital of Madrid. Souce: Associated Press.

---------- Post added at 15:22 ---------- Previous post was at 15:07 ----------

Germany reportedly closing borders to France, Switzerland, Austria tomorrow.

The EU's main legacy, Freedom of Movement comes to an abrubt end, albeit for now.

Re: Coronavirus
 

About four weeks too late.

Re: Coronavirus
 

[QUOTE=Mick;36027418]BREAKING: Spain's COVID-19 death toll has more than doubled overnight, the countries health minister stated that Spain has recorded 288 deaths since the start of the pandemic, up from 136 yesterday. In 24 hours, it saw 7,753 confirmed infections, up from 5,700 the day before with around half of them concentrated in the capital of Madrid. Souce: Associated Press.

---------- Post added at 15:22 ---------- Previous post was at 15:07 ----------

Germany reportedly closing borders to France, Switzerland, Austria tomorrow.

The EU's main legacy, Freedom of Movement comes to an abrubt end, albeit for now.[/QUOTE

Isn't it strange, Freedom of Movement was, up until now, sacrosanct by the EU. Now, when it suits them, it's simply thrown out of the window! How can EU countries close their borders and remain within EU law? Perhaps there's a clause in the legislation to allow for this sort of thing, I don't know.

Pandemics are now another reason why I don't agree with Freedom of Movement.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There were always legal provisions for emergencies, the sacrosanct nature was the reason it wasn't closed sooner.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A update from the Department of Health and Social Care.


https://twitter.com/DHSCgovuk/status...14816860016640

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...onavirus-cases

Re: Coronavirus
 

Died of what though ?
The fact they tested positive doesnt necessarily mean the virus was the cause of their death, its rather vague on that.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s statistically unlikely that it wasn’t a factor in the vast, vast majority of them.

Re: Coronavirus
 

l cannot answer that but l agree it is rather vague.

---------- Post added at 16:51 ---------- Previous post was at 16:41 ----------

Here is more just released from NHS Trusts.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Some might have died anyway due to their underlying condition and the fact that they had the virus was neither here nor there (but it won't have exactly helped the situation).

I suspect though that the overwhelming majority died because the virus exacerbated their underlying condition or that they died because the virus itself effectively suffocated them.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If you take it to the extreme we're all dying anyway.

Re: Coronavirus
 

That is taking it to the extreme.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It’s not going to be enforced, it is asking over 70’s for their own good.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I took the use of the word 'instructed' to mean that over 70's won't have a choice, but that's only what Robert Peston has relayed ie nothing official has been announced by the government.

I wonder why the govt is relaying via the media; why not make a Prime Ministerial announcement directly to the nation? I'm sure it will happen at some stage.

I also wouldn't be surprised if the Queen spoke to the nation (she might have even pre recorded this prior to her going into quarantine).

A request from the PM & the Queen might also be enough to make the majority of the over 70's compliant.

If the over 70's choose to disobey this request or instruction, will the government get heavy handed with them? The Conservative party rely on the grey vote and so they won't want to alienate them.

On the other hand, if they end up losing their life through going outside, It's a cold heartless fact that the government will save a lot through reduced expenditure on pensions and future health costs from people that are likely to no longer be economically active. Are they really that bothered if such people become infected?

Re: Coronavirus
 

people were fighting in my local Aldi this morning 5 mins after it opened stripping the shelves of all tinned goods except mushy peas.

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's more likely to effect men, apparently they think that this is because more men are likely to smoke and this helps Covid-19 finish them off through respiratory issues.

Re: Coronavirus
 

l saw the same type pictures from some other supermarkets as well as why can't they behave like civil human beings.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The local paper showed many pictures of empty supermarket shelves prompting panic buying they neglected to point out it was only toilet paper and hand sanitizer that was in short supply ,maybe the government should get the press under control,the papers are full of rubbish.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Why toilet paper?

There's plenty of red tops on sale. :D

Re: Coronavirus
 

Some supermarkets are just crap at stocking the shelves at the best of times. Go into my local ASDA on any given day and it's like being time warped back to the Soviet Union in the 1970s.

Fun fact for the loony stockpilers regarding pasta: With some basic culinary skills and a little elbow grease it's actually quite easy to make and it can be stored in something called a freezer for a couple of months or more.

Re: Coronavirus
 

You forget you're dealing with the woke generation. They have absolutely no idea how to do anything that isn't on facebook or instagram. :rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

There's also no shortage of bars of soap what's the deal with hand sanitizer.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I wonder how many people have died of the flu so far this winter? I'm guessing that it's in the thousands but no panic over that so far.......:/

Re: Coronavirus
 

Hard to find figures for this year, but I did come across this for the previous 4 years ;

Strangly, we did not see mass panic in those previous four years, esp in 2015 ....

Re: Coronavirus
 

It's because those at risk of dying can receive a vaccination, to help stop them getting flu in the first place.

With this thing there is no vaccination yet, so the elderly/disabled/ill are at it's mercy.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The mortality rate is judged to be more than 10 times the normal rate. Plus you have those that are severely affected but don't die.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The vaccination that you speak of is minimally effective but I suppose that it makes people feel better. I get many a patient who says "I won't get the flu as I've been vaccinated" :D

---------- Post added at 19:06 ---------- Previous post was at 19:06 ----------

Indeed......

Re: Coronavirus
 

Its not as effective as you seem to think. My Mum was vaccinated, but still got the flu anyway (fortunately, not a serious case).

While its probably higher than flu, the actual rate is just a guess atm, since they have no idea how many mild cases go unreported, and therefore not counted.

Re: Coronavirus
 

If you are young and in good health and have nothing to do for two weeks. I recommend you go snog someone with the virus now. In a month you will be able to walk through the hellish landscape with immunity like superman. You can earn a hell of an overtime salary.

Re: Coronavirus
 

As I understand it, the vaccine is made up of the strain that they think will most likely be doing the rounds in a given year. If they get this wrong, or the strain mutates, a person can still get the flu, despite having had the flu jab.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Just because the UK Government has no idea how many cases, and indeed are opting not to test symptomatic people, doesn't mean other countries haven't scaled up Coronavirus testing in an effort to stem the outbreak.

South Korea for example will have much more accurate figures.

---------- Post added at 19:26 ---------- Previous post was at 19:26 ----------

Or more than one strain is on the go.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I don't think that there will be a problem keeping the over 70's inside, they seem to already be doing it according to this pub report from today:

"Understandably, all OAPs have stopped going in, who often also come in with family. Theres no longer an upsurge in trade for people coming in to watch football and even regulars have stopped going in. The place is dead as are all the other pubs in the area which are split into 3 distinct groups - those that show football and actively promote it, those that don't and are just drinkers and social community pubs and those that sell menu food. All 3 have been impacted badly and the future situation and outlook doesn't look good."

Re: Coronavirus
 

Went to a local (ish) Pub for our Sunday meal this afternoon - it was pretty much business as usual.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Been told by a relative who lives in the ROI that all pubs have been ordered to close at midnight and that this will last for at least two weeks.

On a lighter note the bars in Lanzarote were closed at midnight last night/this morning: An entertainer friend told me this:

Getting chucked out of a pub cause your now on lockdown,
dressed as a f****ng Dalmatian...
defo a thing going in my timeline 😂😂

Re: Coronavirus
 

If the government implement all 70+ years are to remain at home for 4 months.

How will it effect people like me who live at home, would I be expected to join them and what about my job. I cannot see my job being happy with that.

Though personally screw my job, family first everytime.

Re: Coronavirus
 

This is from an hour ago, it now says that over 70's will be told to stay inside for a long time:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873

It doesn't specifically mention your situation, but it does say that you can still visit older people if you have no symptoms, but that you must keep six feet apart at all times.

Would you practically and emotionally be able to keep your distance from your parents? If not, you might have to think about temporarily moving out (particularly as you will be moving amongst the outer world) in order to secure their welfare.

Re: Coronavirus
 

And in the next sentence.
Later on.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'm sure the thread could do without the excitement of the different between tell and ask.

Re: Coronavirus
 

A Public Health England document has revealed the UK coronavirus crisis is to last until spring 2021 and could see 7.9m hospitalised.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...e_iOSApp_Other

Re: Coronavirus
 

Wow. Are you now self isolating Den?

Re: Coronavirus
 

You have to laugh at the replacement for the news of the world.....:rolleyes:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Given my underlying medical conditions and being only a few years from 60 l have for the last week self isolated and given the scenario's being talked about in government l will be doing it for a long period yet.

My parents are aged 70 plus and talking to them on the phone they know that a long period of self isolation for them both is inevitable now.

Their words were to me we will cope as many had to cope with 2 world wars and their sacrifices that were made there.

Re: Coronavirus
 

apparently people in china who had originally contracted the illness and recovered have now got the illness again but didnt spread it the second time but still felt ill. So it doesnt look likethey become immune

Re: Coronavirus
 

Boris' plan rests on immunity and these reports being a mistake.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Sound advice; one of those that recently died in the UK was only 59!

It's been said that those most at risk are over 50 (40 in some reports), especially those over 80, so I can't understand why those between 40/50 and 69 aren't being targeted in the same way with this advice. Maybe it's because we would stop functioning as a country altogether if this group also temporarily withdrew from life outside.

I've just seen a woman dying from it on the BBC1 news and it's rather upset me. Apparently, it's an agonising death and like drowning without water, so It's well worth taking precautions.

Around one out of every six of those who get Covid-19 becomes seriously ill and develops difficulty breathing, according to the WHO.

---------- Post added at 22:43 ---------- Previous post was at 22:40 ----------

[/COLOR]This was my fear earlier on. Chris had this to say:

'You can’t catch the same virus again. If it mutates rapidly, you could catch a mutated form later, but that would technically not be the same virus. So far scientists have identified many dozens of mutated variations on the original infection but they are all essentially still the same virus. To give you some idea how far a coronavirus might have to mutate in order to become sufficiently different to cause reinfection, a Dutch laboratory has had some early success with a vaccine for SARS1, which killed around 7,000 people in 2002-2003. SARS1 and the present virus are both coronaviruses; the present one is also designated SARS2. So even though this one is sufficiently different to be a distinct virus, immunity against one does appear, at this stage, to confer immunity against the other.

In any case, the government’s present strategy would still protect against the coronavirus causing covid-19.

I also don’t believe at present there is any credible evidence that this virus exhibits rapid mutation leading to so-called re-infection. There are a couple of anecdotal reports but these are being pounced on by a global news media whose entire operation has now been given over to coronavirus coverage. They’re going to repeat anything anyone says about it, without necessarily assessing its credibility or assigning its proper significance first.'

Re: Coronavirus
 

With our strategy seemingly out on it’s own should other countries get the situation contained we could find ourselves quarantined by the rest of the world for months, potentially years. The economic consequences would be catastrophic.

I expect us to move back to containment (belatedly) should our European neighbours have success. Army on the streets. It’ll be loads of fun.

Re: Coronavirus
 

I'd love to know how they plan to enfore that. :erm:

Re: Coronavirus
 

Well, they can't really enforce it can they, but it's sensible to adhere to it if you don't wish to do harm to older people.

Where they might prosecute people will be where this hasn't been complied with and someone becomes seriously ill or dies.

Re: Coronavirus
 

l see the government has changed its media strategy as the prime minister or one of his ministers will be holding daily televised press conferences to update the public on the fight against coronavirus.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51901818

Re: Coronavirus
 

What part of, “this virus can not be contained” do you not understand?

Re: Coronavirus
 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

Re: Coronavirus
 

That's, of course, an opinion. Efforts in China and South Korea indicate otherwise. The rest of the world, including the United States, is at least trying.

---------- Post added at 07:42 ---------- Previous post was at 07:35 ----------

Little wonder. It's been fairly embarrassing to date.

That said, standing there every single day saying we aren't trying and we aren't counting won't last long. The public expects the state to protect it.

Re: Coronavirus
 

There are 53 cases in Hampshire, out of a local population of 1,376,316.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

Re: Coronavirus
 

Called my mum yesterday (in her 80's). She is well but concerned with the elderlies group she helps with and those who would normally attend being OK.
My brother is self-isolating (with mum) as folk in his office have gone ill (can't recall if tested positive).
Wife just back from the weekly Aldi shop and couldn't get to car park (she went down just gone 8) so went to Waitrose instead. So people are still going bonkers. I prefer Waitrose as you can taste and see on the deli so choose what's nice that day.
---
For information
https://www.who.int/docs/default-sou...rsn=e2bfc9c0_2

Re: Coronavirus
 

China didn't lock down their whole country. They didn't need to as it was relatively contained to certain areas and the people there would comply with Government instructions.


South Korea didn't have a complete lockdown. They relied on self-isolation and very thorough and what might be seen by some draconian, tracing of contacts.
Link

The issue has NEVER been about WHETHER further restrictions are put in place, but WHEN.


Different countries have different approaches, and not all US states are taking the same measures.

Re: Coronavirus
 

The figure could be out by an unknown factor.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-testing

Re: Coronavirus
 

Wife just looked at changing Sainsbury delivery time but all slots for next 3 weeks are taken so this week we are OK, next week it will have to be joining the scrum in store.

Re: Coronavirus
 

Rep Nunes.