Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Where exaggeration and cock and bull stories are their watchwords....

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

As I said, it is a distraction, nothing more. What that picture does is calm people down a bit, but it is hardly intrusive, is it?

---------- Post added at 10:13 ---------- Previous post was at 10:07 ----------

No, it was sneaky peeping Tom behaviour, which you would not like if it happened to you.

---------- Post added at 10:15 ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 ----------

Boris will be PM, and he will win the next General Election. You are in the minority, I'm afraid, as will be revealed soon enough.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

If the argument started with the "get off my laptop", then they were listening and possibly recording(?) BEFORE any argument started.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

[Duplicate post]

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Perhaps these neighbours were recording all goings on in the hope something salaciuos and damaging could be delivered to the Guardian?

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

He released the photo! And it's old in a pathetic, transparent attempt to make it all go away, the fact that it's an old picture shows what he thinks of us, thickos who won't be able to work it out, he's dishonest and instead of calming people he's opened a few more eyes to how defective his character really is, I hope Hunt makes hay with this

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

So what? This argument is about a domestic incident and a subsequent photo designed to calm the nerves of snoopy-type people of nervous disposition. Pathetic!

What kind of PM would Boris be? What are his policies and are they good for the country? Will he get us out of the EU?

These are the questions we should be asking, not all this tittle-tattle. Aren't we above all that nonsense yet?

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

It's not the tittle tattle it's how he's behaving that's causing the problems, how do you not get that or are you purposely not getting it and focusing on the tittle tattle to try and excuse his somewhat farcical and dishonest management of the situation

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

I agree with you.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Totally correct. Watch his interviews back and you see he is constantly avoiding the direct questions. He is a politician, granted but he is just really bad at it.

He is also flip-flopping: last week he said 31st Oct is "do or die", today No Deal is a million to one chance. I suppose he is playing to his target audience who don't really care what he says as long as he constantly repeats the words "No Deal".

I suppose the recent addition of UKIP supporters to the Tory party membership sort of ensures his coronation but he is doing a good job of trying to blow it.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

I think that everyone has reservations about how he will conduct himself when PM, but what he does in the privacy of his (or his girl friend's home) is not my business.

Anyway, I strongly suspect that his girl friend made that picture available. And so what?

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

It's an old picture, they are deceiving you on a seemingly trivial matter and you don't seem to care, problem is if he can't handle something as pathetic as this what's he going to be like when something serious happens. That's without mentioniong the hypocrisy of demanding privacy one moment and then courting the press to release that grotty little propaganda snap the next

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Is this better

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

he one of biggest liars in UK he only cares about himself he be a absolute disaster for UK as would Corbyn so basically the country screwed either way

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Nail on the head!

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

So how about Hunt? Is he any more trustworthy? What do you think of their proposed economic strategies?

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

When there is a crisis in his ministry whatever that ministry is he tends to disappear at the most inconvenient times.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

His mr nice guy image quickly unravelled,and the country can't afford either's economic strategy,best not to promise big spends until the new chancellor gets to look at the books, Tm is as bad her legacy will be bankruptcy if the brakes aren't applied to her vanity projects.

---------- Post added at 08:44 ---------- Previous post was at 08:43 ----------

When the going gets tough the tough get gone;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Well both their strategies include Brexit, without a deal if necessary. Sorry but the lunatics have taken over the asylum, being PM is everything to them, Brexit everything to their evangelical support. Really don't know how people think their lives will be improved? It won't to the thousands that will lose their jobs, or for the rest of us as our economy collapses. However keep calm and carry on !

What we really should be concerned about of course is Climate Change, not poxy Brexit which is an irrelevance in comparison. We've got our priorities wrong.

Morning rant over ;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

He's more trustworthy but only because BoJo sets the bar so low it's actually on the ground.
Both sets of economic policies are costly and a blatant attempt to buy votes.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Boris Johnsons tax policy will benefit a certain group which is not compatible with ending austerity in public spending or spending prudently with the countrys public finances.

And Jeremy Hunts economic plan could not be done without tax rises or higher borrowing.

---------- Post added at 08:55 ---------- Previous post was at 08:53 ----------

You have got it in one Andrew...

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

So much for the Conservatives being on the side of business anymore....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...t-was-worth-it

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Labour and the Conservatives seem to be out competing one another to deliver the most hostile business environment.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Both playing to their own non-representative audiences while the people who will pay the price for this circus look on ..

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

l know Andrew and yet come the next general Election both duplicitous scheming parties will be trying to portray themselves as the party on the side of business.:rolleyes:

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

It's amazing the spending pledges they're making. Education - more funding. NHS - more funding. Northern Infrastructure - more spending. All whilst cutting our taxes!

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

That mythical magic money tree seems to appear at the most convienent times....

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Have you noticed they are both now, esp. Hunt, cementing the No Deal narrative? "Yes, I will look the failed businesses in the eye and tell them that yes, they had to fail since the country voted for pain".

They are both ramping up the No Deal excuses whilst mumbling over the prospects of getting the EU to re-open the WA. I suppose they are trying to make sure that they personally will not be blamed because the "people" wanted the pain and not them.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

We [the people] thank them for their sacrifice for the greater good.

---------- Post added at 12:41 ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 ----------

They are spending the money TM promised to the EU.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Many times over yes. This little pot, which also assume no negative consequences to economic growth, is proving very useful. Unfunded policy? EU money will cover that.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

both main parties not fit enough to run a bath nevermind a country

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

There is also the possible legal battle over the monies owed to the EU. They may insist on fighting this on principle.

---------- Post added at 14:09 ---------- Previous post was at 14:07 ----------

sacrifice: an act of slaughtering an animal or person or surrendering a possession as an offering to God or to a divine or supernatural figure.

Interesting choice of words :)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

;):tu:

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Show me a representative poll of Conservative Party members views that opposes the YouGov one. I mean if you can show us the evidence that backs your indignation then fair enough.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

The more nonsense Hunt spouts, the more BoJo's lead narrows. There's method in his madness.
You're right to highlight that the Conservative Party is no longer the natural home for business. Maggie must be turning in her grave.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Don't worry as Boris Johnsons anti-business views are just as bad.

https://www.businessgreen.com/bg/blo...which-business

https://www.ft.com/content/8075e68c-...7-1e1a0846c475

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

To be honest I am not sure it is the natural home for much nowadays. I mean, One Nation Conservatism is long dead.

In all the ramblings so far, when have they discussed the "Brexit" equivalent of the The Anti Tax Avoidance Directive? Quite the opposite in fact.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Several have said they are One Nation Conservatives in the last couple of decades but a clear analysis of their time in office would suggest very much otherwise...

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

This is so amusing. The Left is oh so happy to deride spending pledges being made by the two contenders for PM and yet don't bat an eyelid at Corbyn's ideas for a spending frenzy funded by his money tree!

I would respectfully remind everyone that it is the Conservatives who have the good reputation when it comes to the economy. If you spend more money and cut taxes, clearly the money does have to come from somewhere. Just because neither Hunt nor Johnson have explained where the money is coming from does not mean they don't have a proper plan.

Boris is considering reducing the size of the Cabinet by half, which will save billions, as well as reducing the international aid budget, for starters.

The Left have also consistently failed to understand that by reducing taxes in a managed way, you can actually increase revenues. Of course, the Left would not want to acknowledge that anyway as it would take away their 'logic' for increasing taxes on the rich. The politics of envy.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

l don't give two hoots about the dreadful Jeremy Corbyn and the left but as usual you revert to your usual default political position of failing to see quite clearly that Boris Johnsons and Jeremy Hunts sums don't add up unless of course that magical money tree suddenly reappears at the most convienent time when it suits their political ends..

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

I note that you omitted the rest of my message, which explained that, Den, you naughty boy! :D

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

A reputation they intend to throw away at the altar of Johnsons and Hunts false promises and **** business attitude....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...t-was-worth-it

https://en.brinkwire.com/news/i-say-...ship-struggle/

---------- Post added at 11:09 ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 ----------

Another load of bollocks by him as usual...

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

There are 22 members of the Cabinet (including the PM), so if it reduced by 11, they would save the ministerial part of their salary (around £70k per year, times 11, equals £770k per annum).

"Which would save billions" - not a valid interpretation of actuality, as it would take 1,300 years to save 1 billion.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Oh dear revert to the usual OB default political position!!!! as this is a Conservative leadership thread OB as there is a Labour one to use For Corbyn and the Labour party as we are discussing both candidates economic competence on this thread..

---------- Post added at 11:13 ---------- Previous post was at 11:12 ----------

No l was getting to that..;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

If you only count ministerial salaries, yes. There are other savings apart from just that, including savings on office space, Civil Service staffing costs and unnecessary spending.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

So are you saying each cabinet minister requires nearly £90 million in support costs each year?

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

William Hague, the former Conservative party leader and former foreign secretary, has written a candid column (paywall) in the Daily Telegraph today about the Tory leadership contest.

There are snippets from it in this link at 09:32.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...082cc21811bd1c

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Not sure who "The Left" are .... but this is priceless :)

reminds me of:

BTW, your "politics of envy" defence of the super rich is shallow. There is no moral justification of individuals with wealth in the 100's of millions and billions not being taxed more to help improve our country and to make it a fairer place to live. The facile "trickle down economics" argument is a total con job. I mean, think about it, the people who want to gain (and retain) disproportionate wealth at the expense of their fellow citizens would say that wouldn't they? ;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

I have criticised Corbyn loads of times and never voted for him. Give it a rest.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

where did Hunt and Johnson find there magic money tree OB

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

It's a mere twig compared to corbyns money tree.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

utter nonsense and I no fan of Corbyn and never will be both bad as each other didn't the tories keep saying there is no magic money tree then the 2 leader candidates suddenly find one hypocrites cant have it both ways

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

It trickles one way and it ain't down, what that is trickling down all over us aint money or wealth it's them literally taking the piss out of us and on us

Odd that, I've never voted labour but still get smeared with that brush. I'm surprised he didn't bring Venezuela up

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Sometimes, it may be difficult to see the wood for the trees.
Hunt: a mere twig at £46.0bn
Corbyn: a huge tree at £48.6bn
Source: https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...-boris-johnson

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

The mythical magic money tree which they will use when it conveniently suits their own political agenda.

---------- Post added at 15:27 ---------- Previous post was at 15:23 ----------

Only those with political blinkers on can't see the wood for the trees Andrew as both parties are as culpable as each other.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

the money tree

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

exactly Den :clap::clap:

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

HS2 £48bn, Foreign aid £14bn, EU brexit £39bn, gov reorganisation £8bn Plenty of money if you know where to look for it. :D

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Boris Johnson thinks HS2 would be cheap at £65bn.;)

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/...alling-budget/

---------- Post added at 18:05 ---------- Previous post was at 18:02 ----------

Nothing like getting a bad reputation for not paying a countrys bills as its a bit like ones own bills as don't pay them in the hope the debt will suddenly go away which of course it won't.

---------- Post added at 18:09 ---------- Previous post was at 18:05 ----------

Another false unsubstantiated claim like many of the others unsubstantiated claims both candidates have made...

---------- Post added at 18:10 ---------- Previous post was at 18:09 ----------

Not a lot is it 0.7% of national income to help some lesser countries abroad.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

We're both on the same page on this. ;)

---------- Post added at 18:46 ---------- Previous post was at 18:43 ----------

Most of those are one-offs and will be contested by the other parties involved. The government reorganisation is pie in the sky as has been proven earlier in the thread.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Shame it's the wrong page;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Quelle surprise...;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Is that some kind of French pudding ;)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Or maybe the hard to digest English pudding Eton Mess...Bojo's speciality :)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Sky News saying that BoJo's promises total £67bn. This compares to £48.6bn for Jezza and £46bn for Hunt. It's a Godsend to Labour who can now say austerity was a political not an economic decision.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

67 billion, chicken feed....

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Not really. The spending proposals by both candidates will be funded one way or another. Jezza's plans will not be.

Which governments in recent times have left us worse off than when they came to power?

ANSWER:

1. Labour Government 1974 - 1979.
2. Labour Government 1997 - 2010.

Which governments have left us better off economically?

ANSWER:
1. Conservative Government 1979 - 1997
2. Conservative led Government: 2010 - date.

Nuff said.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Nah, pure Tory fantasy.

Who was responsible for the state of the UK finances in 2010, was bailed out to the tune of £500 billion and was the direct cause of the subsequent years of austerity?

ANSWER:

The City


.. who, BTW, both candidates are failing to focus on in their sales pitch to the faithful.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

you really need to come off fantasy island OB

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

The City was not exactly whiter than white, but we are talking gover ment performance here. The Labour Party, in both periods of office, spent all the money so it was unable to deal with the financial crisis.

The way Gordon was carrying on with his spending spree we would have ended up bankrupt one way or another even without the crash. It might have taken a couple or three years longer, but the end result would have been the same.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Historical data on public sector net debt against GDP does not support that statement (and I’m no fan of Labour) - Labour’s PSND vs GDP was lower in 2007 than when they took power in 1997 (then the crash happened).

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...nt-debt-to-gdp

https://www.cableforum.uk/board/atta...4&d=1562160224

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

True, except the incoming Labour government in 1997 committed to sticking to Tory spending plans until 1999. You’ll see on your graph that those Tory spending plans significantly reduced the net debt, right up to the point when Gordon Brown abandoned them. From 1999 until the crash, when a Labour chancellor pursued a Labour economic policy, it increased year on year. It is this year on year increase, at a time when the economy was booming and conventional wisdom said the chancellor should have continued to pay down the debt, not increase it, that Labour was rightly pilloried for in the 2010 election campaign.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Update - no, he isn’t...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/j...TM_1Imag_CR1_2

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Clearly, the press were a bit premature there! However, Boris has plenty of alternative ideas to offset the giveaways, including his idea for six tax-free zones. This is the kind of fresh outlook we need to reinvigorate this country post Brexit.- and it is the kind of example I drew attention to earlier that the economic forecasters would not have taken into account.

I see a bright new future ahead, and those that have been trying to reverse the democratic decision of this country will scarcely be able to comprehend what has happened.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...-zones-around/

Half a dozen Singapore-style tax-free zones could be established around Britain to drive forward the economy after Brexit under proposals being considered by Boris Johnson.

The Conservative leadership favourite confirmed that creating tax-free zones in ports - where goods can be landed in the UK but not be subject to any duties - was part of his vision for the country after Britain leaves in October.

Ports on the UK’s east coast including Teesside, Aberdeen and Peterhead could become economic zones, considered independent for customs purposes, that charge no taxes or tariffs on imports.

Singapore is considered a tax haven because of its low personal and corporate tax rates and other incentives for foreign investors.

Mr Johnson said: "That's the sort of thing we can do. But first we've got leave the EU. We could do free ports, we could get a massive boost for this economy, but only once we've come out.

"I want to have about six of them. We should definitely be doing free ports and tax free zones. They have delivered around the world, there are about 130 countries who have them. We don't because of our membership of the EU.

"There are plainly areas that would benefit from them. We will build them all over the place, particularly Northern Ireland."

The proposal - also backed by Mr Johnson's rival Jeremy Hunt - was welcomed by the Federation of Small Businesses, which said it “would be transformational for this society, whether you are a unionist, nationalist or neither”.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

"Premature"?

What scoundrels, actually reporting what Boris and his cohorts said, without giving them time to backtrack...

Nice to see you’re following the BJ mantra of "I didn’t actually say that" (even though there is recorded video evidence of him saying it), and the old faithful "it has been taken out of context"...

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

:clap::clap::clap:

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

The Labour government was borrowing on a massive scale long before 2008(ie 2002), and was doing it when the economy was supposedly in such good shape that there shouldn't have been a need for any borrowing. THAT was the reason for austerity.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

BoJo has the strength of personality such that less critical minds will simply accept as the truth what he says even if they heard him saying the exact opposite the day before.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Boris Johnson is like Jeremy Corbyn where both parties have become ideological sects where they cannot be challenged and the most ridiculous thinking prevails as gospel.

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

I haven't ...

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Good point :)

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

It wasn't due to political dogma then seeing as the two leadership candidates seem determined to unravel the cuts by hiring more police, increasing nhs spending etc etc etc

No of course he isn't entitled to a say in who is the next pm

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

I think they both suspect they'll be unable to deliver on any of this stuff anyway as an election is coming....

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

They're both counting on no-deal being blocked and the blocking side are coming together.
Philip Hammond leads 30 Tory MPs in plot to stop no-deal Brexit in October

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Too late, we have already left.

When our second extension was agreed, the EU made a mistake in Article 2 in the document they passed as law. This states:

“This decision shall cease to apply on 31 May 2019 in the event that the United Kingdom has not held elections to the European Parliament in accordance with applicable Union law and has notratified the Withdrawal Agreement by 22 May 2019.”

We did the first but not the second. So we're out!

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/0...eady-happened/

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

That’s good - I’m sure a Speccy columnist is completely au fait with international law and treaties.

I can’t seem to find him on the Law Society rolls, but I am sure he has extensive legal experience specialising in international treaties (he probably thinks we can invoke Article 24 as well, even if the EU don’t agree...).

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Have you looked under internet know it all?

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

DUP to demand some of the magic money tree cash from whoever becomes leader

https://news.sky.com/story/dup-to-de...snt-sf-twitter

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Is that what you recommend ?

Re: Leadership who is the next PM?
 

Well maybe so, or may be not. However, your response to the actual question is what?
Don't worry yourself. Breath not being held :D