Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

If I search twitter for the term OFCOM and any ISP I find people wanting to complain to the communications regulator. It’s almost as if they see it as a way to get attention from the company.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

l somehow doubt it as it takes two to come to a amicable agreement that is acceptable for both as its been rumoured for weeks that a deal was very close as it was just a case of dotting the i's and crossing the t's.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Exactly. VM tried to get UKTV to accept less and it's always worth trying to get suppliers to provide things for less.

It didn't work, so VM thought that they'd push the issue and make the spat public. It's been handled appallingly and blown up in their face.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

There’s nothing obvious at all about it.

Advertisers pay ITV to reach the biggest commercial audiences. 4m homes is a sizeable portion of that. Do ITV want to go back and refund their advertisers a percentage of their fees? Probably not.

I see two companies haggling to the last minute and striking a mutually beneficial deal. Everyday capitalism really.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

....obviously.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

“You have speculated” it has blown up in their face.

---------- Post added at 11:33 ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 ----------

So you agree it’s a bad methodology to apply small sample sizes to the entire customer base?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Why do you think that ITV gave VM an ultimatum in the same week as their platform had been weakened? Why do you think that 18 months of not getting a deal regarding retransmission fees was resolved within 24 hours after a threat to further weaken the channel line up?

---------- Post added at 11:39 ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 ----------

It's true to say that ITV would have lost advertising revenue, but pretty obvious that the loss of the UKTV channels and the threat to pull the feeds within days led to VM agreeing to what ITV wanted within 24 hours.

---------- Post added at 11:41 ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 ----------

What are you talking about?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

It’s not obvious at all.

Given that UKTV will be arguing over pennies per subscriber per month if ITV proposed adverse terms Virgin would have been better dealing with UKTV and kicking the can down the road again over ITV.

The fact there is a deal with ITV so quick makes it more likely it’s on terms the parties were close to anyway. It’d have been in ITVs interest to drag it out, arguing their content is more compelling than ever on the platform.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Looking at it from another point of view, ITV could of looked at Virgins hard stance with UKTV and thought "hey we don't want our channels withdrawn from the Virgin Media platform, we'll give in to what Virgin Media want". Just my opinion guys.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

There was no ultimatum as that imaginary word is only in the pages of some newspapers who like to write banner headlines without any substantiation of proof.

---------- Post added at 11:51 ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 ----------

Retransmission fees were always part of the wider deal that ITV and Virgin signed so that was obviously not going to be announced until a full deal had been reached between the two on other matters.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Do you really think that VM could have afforded to let the ITV channels go from from the service at this particular time?

Why on Earth would ITV have wanted to drag it out, it had been dragged out for 18 months already. The argument that their content was more compelling than ever is surely a reason to encourage VM to play ball and it obviously worked.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

It’s really good news just wish itv or virgin would do into more detail

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

What VM wanted was to not start paying the retransmission fees that ITV wanted to start charging and had thus far always said that they would not pay them. The issue had been in deadlock for the past 18 months.

All things considered, I really don't think that ITV will have suddenly said, ok, you win, forget about the retransmission fees!

---------- Post added at 12:13 ---------- Previous post was at 12:07 ----------

Up until the deal was agreed, the VM stance was that they would not pay any retransmission fees point blank.

ITV gave VM an ultimatum to resolve the outstanding issues or they would switch off their feeds as early as the weekend. It can be no coincidence that this was done at this particular time.

Up until that point, VM had intended to broadcast an unauthorised feed from the Astra satellite intended for Freesat and Sky DTH customers.

---------- Post added at 12:19 ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 ----------

That's unlikely to happen for reasons of commercial confidentiality, especially as VM wouldn't want to encourage the other eligible channels to make similar demands for retransmission fees, even though I now think that they will do anyway.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

If ITV wanted to pressure VM they’d have pulled the channels full stop. That step would be unilateral.

You think the call centre is busy and discounts on the go just now are a lot, they’d be totally dwarfed by the complaints if ITV went off air.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

It would have benefited neither party to pull the ITV channels without giving VM a chance to respond.

Oh yes, absolutely. The loss of the ITV channels would certainly have dwarfed the complaints about the loss of the UKTV channels, to the point where I think that it might have even threatened the continuing viability of the platform.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Richard it seems to me like you are actually bothered whether or not Virgin has paid re-transmission fees. It's probably not going to have an effect on customers whether or not they have because they have to remain competitive in terms of pricing as otherwise people will just vote with their wallet and leave. The deal covers the entire ITV suite of channels and yes maybe there are details about re-transmission in the terms but this will have probably been on the proviso that Virgin receive 4K etc that they have managed to come to an agreement on (I will highlight this is my subjective opinion before anyone comments with 'were you at the negotiation table?' or similar). In terms of the other PSBs asking for re-transmission fees, the BBC probably won't because of the license fee. Channel 4 and Viacom both have commercial agreements for other channels so it might be brought to the table when negotiating for them but who knows.

With regards to the UKTV channels yes people will leave because they've gone if they don't come back. UKTV saying on Twitter that it's unlikely that the channels will return and pointing people in the direction of other providers could just be to put pressure on Virgin to reach a deal. I don't think Virgin are in that much of a weak position though given not everyone watches UKTV and the fact that they've just signed a multi year deal for BT Sport. Let's face it are sports fans who are Virgin Media customers going to want to spend £27.99 a month and upwards on top of a Sky package?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

You are the one contending that Virgin are under pressure over a handful of minority interest channels leaving. Imagine the power that gives the UKs largest commercial broadcaster if they go off air?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

You would be saying that other providers will be queuing up to inflate their carriage costs had Virgin given into UKTV! I don't see how you make out that by letting UKTV go, this would embolden channel operators! On the contrary, it shows that VM believe that no deal is better than a bad deal. :D

Sky was a different ball game, because it was a more important issue than the UKTV issue is. This will blow over, and we will get more channels over the coming months to make up for the loss.

---------- Post added at 14:23 ---------- Previous post was at 14:20 ----------

How do you know the timing was not coincidental? This spat with ITV has been going on for a year now. It should not escape your notice that on demand provision was an important part of the dispute with UKTV. However, a deal with ITV on this has been achieved. This will improve our on demand content considerably.

---------- Post added at 14:28 ---------- Previous post was at 14:23 ----------

Customer discontent from a minority. I think Virgin would have expected that. The number of people viewing these channels on their V6 boxes will have been known to Virgin Media, so they knew there would be a limit to the number of cancellations that would occur.

Such a fuss for channels showing almost endless repeats.

---------- Post added at 14:33 ---------- Previous post was at 14:28 ----------

They were already virtually ready to sign a deal, Richard. Anyway, this is good news, not bad.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Correct.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

So it’s weak of the broadcaster to take a quick deal?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

If VM give in to UKTV it will indeed show other channel operators that they are able to put pressure on VM to make things benefit themselves. I've already explained why I think that this is now the least worse option.

I've already explained why I think that the Sky issue and the response by the previous owners was totally different.

If you think that a dispute that had been going on for so long in deadlock and had resulted in an ultimatum by ITV to threaten to weaken the platform even more within days resulted in a satisfactory outcome for ITV within 24 hours was simply a coincidence you must be extremely gullible. Obviously, VM would want as much value from these retransmission fees as possible and negotiated these extras as part of the deal.

VM claim to know how many people watch various channels, yet I was arrogantly told that I never watched them, which didn't go down well with me! Also, this would not be accurate as people often leave their STB switched on for various reasons and, when the STB is switched off, it doesn't actually switch it off, it only kills the video & audio.

In the sense that 43% is a minority and that the cancellation lines are impossible to get through to, attention from Ofcom, legal bods challenging the legalities of their contract, negative attention across the media, many disgruntled customers, the loss of any goodwill built up over the years both now and into the future think I think it realistic to say that VM management totally misjudged the whole situation and, if they could have foreseen everything that's happened, would have (hopefully) handled things totally differently.

Again, I do not believe that they were ready to sign a deal. ITV saw that VM had put themselves in a weak position and fully exploited it. This news is a double edged sword for VM, but they simply had no other option as ITV will have been well aware. This will not have gone unnoticed by the likes of Sky etc.

---------- Post added at 18:48 ---------- Previous post was at 18:45 ----------

Depends what the deal is. It was obviously acceptable to ITV whereas the previous VM stance on not paying any retransmission fees under any circumstances hadn't been. Seems obvious that VM have backed down.

---------- Post added at 19:01 ---------- Previous post was at 18:48 ----------

I don't personally think that the traditional cable companies should have to pay retransmission fees, however, my salient point is that the abysmal way that the UKTV issue has been handled has weakened the VM platform and put power into the hands of ITV and other significant channel providers to enable them to push up carriage costs & levy retransmission fees where applicable.

These increased costs, coupled with the other expenses incurred by the UKTV issue, the loss of projected revenue from downgrades/cancellations/loss of future customers is bound to leave a hole in VM finances now and for years to come.

I predict that a deal will eventually be done with UKTV for at least a partial return of the channels, so they can't even offset UKTV carriage costs from this.

I think it likely that customers who remain will be expected to plug the gap, which will further weaken the platform as some people will resist these price increases, though it's true to say that companies do tend to rely on inertia or forgetfulness from customers with regards to price increases.

Putting BT Sport into XL/Full House is certainly a plus for many customers in VM's favour, however, the whole business model relies on many people, whether sports fans or not, paying a little each month within the XL/Full House packs. If enough people downgrade, leave or fail to join, the BT Sport arrangement may become unsustainable.

If VM decided to keep it as a customer attraction tool, it would have to be subsidised, causing a further loss of revenue or price increases. If they decided to get rid of it, I think that would have a further detrimental effect on subscriber numbers as many people only pay for the top package (or are with VM at all) because of this perk.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Well, the ITV deal has been done and most of what you have observed on here is complete speculation on your part.

The issue now is UKTV, and my take on that is that unless UKTV back down, we’ve kissed their asses goodbye. New channels coming soon!

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

VM will likely not be losing anywhere near the amount of money you are predicting. They have many other revenue generating sources and will still make a profit at years end.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

As an example, there are details like this available for your perusal to back up my claims regarding the number of dissatisfied customers, the concerns about the contract being deemed to be unfair and how people cànnot even get through to cancel and Ofcom involvement.

https://twitter.com/Ofcom/status/1022136683104481282

Yes, there are new channels coming; Food Network +1 and Travel Channel +1.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Not the deal ITV was after - most likely no huge sums involved over and above what Virgin already pays and Virgin maintains its long-held position on the issue of retransmission fees.

New ITV CEO Carolyn McCall was under huge pressure from shareholders to secure a deal and she managed that without losing too much face. The promise of extra HD, 4K, box sets and catch up content should give ITV's coffers a boost (although not as much as retransmission fees) and Virgin's concession - agreeing to expand advertising and marketing of ITV programming- should help too.

All in all a good deal for both, but better for Virgin.

Next for ITV will be to secure a similar deal with Sky.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Never a truer word said - I really don't see any winners out of the current situation. VM losing customers and goodwill, UKTV losing carriage fees & advertising, customers missing out.

I guess it's all a question of who blinks first, how long it takes them, and how bad the damage gets in the meantime.

For what it's worth, I may not be cancelling or downgrading myself but I've stopped recommending Virgin to anyone who asks - and will be remaining "neutral" for quite a while yet.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Tho the retransmission issue won't affect Sky until they start their dishless service...

---------- Post added at 20:05 ---------- Previous post was at 20:03 ----------

Yep, the current position is that everyone is losing out.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

But it's been widely intimated that UKTV pulled their channels rather then Virgin chopping them. It would kinda make sense, that if new commercial terms can't be agreed.. on balance I think it's more likely to be in Virgin's interest to drag out existing contracts on borrowed time.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Once the dishless service launches I’m off to get my UKTV channels

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Two points to make on this issue/s.

1) If Sky are going to have a 'dishless' service with the full channels. Would this be stream via a computer etc.

2) IF, VM sort out the terrible business of taking off UKTV channels. And VM have replaced them with 'new' channels. What will happen when the deal is sorted out.

Do they take off the 'new' channels and cause even more problems.

I stopped promoting VM long time ago. They seem to have a motto - don't worry about the customers, we will do what we want. But still put the prices up.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

It will still be they Sky Q box but channels delivered via broadband.

No they would have to move all the channel numbers around.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Yes true but once UKTV withdrew their channels Virgin could of quickly given in to their demands and got the channels back the very next day or at least within days but they didn't, did they?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Point of order ! UKTV didn't withdraw their channels or make any demands, VM decided they didn't want to pay any longer. Same as if you and i went into a shop and decided we didn't want to pay today....

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

I said a similar deal - continued carriage of non-PSBs plus HD, 4K, box sets and catch up plus Sky agreeing to expand advertising and marketing of ITV programming.

If ITV feels Sky is not paying enough (or not doing enough to promote ITV) they can still threaten to remove content. Sky is not immune to carriage disputes, Discovery threatened to pull all its channels before Sky caved in at the 11th hour (unlike Virgin who told UKTV to shove it, same as they did with Sky in 2007 - the same Sky who eventually came crawling back telling Virgin to name their price).

Sky also needs to secure a renewed deal if it wants to match the ITV content and ITV services that Virgin will now be able to offer.

---------- Post added at 21:40 ---------- Previous post was at 21:13 ----------

Oh, but they did.
Virgin offered a revised deal (lower price) for UKTVs pay channels due to customers now viewing more and more content on demand (Netflix is now the most popular pay tv channel in Virgin TV homes), due to UKTV putting pay tv content on its FTA channels and due to what Virgin considers to be a poor UKTV Catch Up/VOD offering. UKTV turned them down and also pulled the FTA channels as well.

UKTV pays to have its FTA channels & services on both FTA and subscription platforms, but refused to give Virgin access to the FTA channels unless it also pays (pays more) for its pay tv output.
Same as if you and i went to pick up a free copy of The Metro, but told sorry, you can't have a free copy today unless you also agree to buy the Daily Mail.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

“Sky also needs to secure a renewed deal if it wants to match the ITV content and ITV services that Virgin will now be able to offer.” what does the changes mean

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Muse’s Song

@musesong
·
1h


So it’s official then? Parting of ways.




Official UKTV

@UKTV


Replying to @musesong, @tonksy84, and @virginmedia
It appears that way sadly.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

This is what happened last weekend.

Because the contract for the UKTV channels expired without a new agreement being made, it was VM who prevented their customers from viewing the channels. Not doing so would have left them open to the threat of legal action by UKTV for showing unauthorised material.

The UKTV feeds continued and remained on new two digit numbers on the EPG.

The reason that they looked to have disappeared is because they were flagged to be in hidden mode, meaning that domestic set top boxes could no longer see them.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

I'm glad ITV and VM came to an understanding in the end, the combo of Coronation Street lovers and ITV4 sport lovers would have destroyed VM and they knew it. It would have been UKTV channels what UKTV channels. :D

---------- Post added at 00:27 ---------- Previous post was at 00:19 ----------

I've looked up BTSport4K, Women's Hockey in 4K not bad! ;) The OH wanted to know if they do Weightlifting or Swimming in 4K, I said no but there is Speedway, Helmets and all. :D

On a more serious note after looking up the schedule there's going to be more 4K to watch than I expected.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

If ITV and Sky had a spat over contracts and ITV channels were removed,imagine the loss of revenue ITV would suffer through lost advertising! Sky have a massive TV customer base,much larger than Virgin,so it would really be suicidal for ITV to ever contemplate it.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

You could say that in respect of UKTV's premium channels, but UKTV definitely pulled the free channels. VM were quite happy to continue making those channels available.

Anyway, it's all a bit academic really.

---------- Post added at 10:38 ---------- Previous post was at 10:29 ----------

The truth is, both companies stood to lose too much without a deal and they stepped back from the brink. A very wise move.

It's a completely different situation with UKTV. All their channels put together have much lower ratings than ITV's main channel.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Stretching a bit calling them new channels!

Minority interest and off-set by an hour - totally unnecessary.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

I agree, and as Richard knows full well, these are not the channels I was talking about.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

How have you watched BTSport4K? I can't find it in the epg.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

It launches tomorrow. I think he just means he's looked up the listings.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

I only have a vhd box.will that get the 4k channel or is that reserved only for v6 boxes?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

V6 only.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

You will also need to be on the Full House or VIP packages to get it.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

...or pay for BT Sports as an add-on if you are on a lower TV tier.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Ok, so it's the same as going into a shop, seeing a 'buy one get one free offer', and asking if we can just have the free one ! :D

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

But this example would mean you get 10 pay channels for the price of five...

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Well, ITV can't ask for retransmission fees from Sky on satellite, only when their dishless service starts.

Any dispute about carriage fees would only affect the HD versions of ITV2, ITV3 and ITV4. Even then, there would be nothing to stop ITV making them available FTA.

---------- Post added at 15:13 ---------- Previous post was at 15:08 ----------

I've explained what actually happened in post #538; none of the channels were actually pulled by either party on the weekend in question. It was VM who made the channels invisible to domestic STB's because they had no choice.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

It seems both sides are becoming, publicly at least, quite entrenched - not good but not entirely unexpected.

In the blue corner, we have Virgin who may well have undervalued the UKTV portfolio and will only be persuaded otherwise by cancellations, downgrades and lower new customer numbers.

In the red corner, UKTV who have overvalued their channels or are indeed not offering OD sufficient to "replace" the BBC archive. They will only be persuaded otherwise, by advertisers reducing spend etc or the total loss of VM's carriage fees starting to hit.

And in the meantime, UKTV say "we're probably not coming back" & VM carrying on with reallocating the EPG slots :-( Not good..

I'm beginning to lose confidence in this being resolved soon, maybe it might take a month or longer for the financial figures to start being hit. Or maybe the EPG slot threat might do it, hmmm....

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Yes, I looked up what's on BTSport4K over the next week or two because I know it's launching tomorrow.

And as I said there will be a fair amount to watch on there.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

To be honest, I think Virgin have walked away in exasperation. Unless UKTV can come up with an acceptable offer, I don't think any further talks will be arranged.

So my advice to UKTV is to stop winding up Virgin's customers by Tweet and start talking to the BBC about their ludicrous stance on OD content. Only that and/or a reduction in price is going to move these talks on now.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

looking more likely this wont get resolved

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Another forum member has posted this:

Must admit i'd not yet considered this point.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Not a chance at the moment Dave.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Yeah. UKTV have said that they are working on getting the rest of their channels added to Now TV.

This would be an ideal solution as those being held to their contracts could still downgrade to the lowest Player pack, get their TiVo fee subsidised by VM and record the vast majority of programmes watched.

Now TV could then be used without contract for accessing UKTV and other pay channels lost from VM both live and on demand; with the addition that Sky Atlantic would become available.

A decision on what to do long term could then be taken upon the expiration of the VM contract.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

let hope VM can come up with something they need too

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

That really wouldn't surprise me. And I must admit, I directed a few pointed Tweets myself at UKTV, it wasn't going to change anything of course but I was curious at what kind of response I got. I was left with an impression of "finger-in-ears" on some awkward points.

Both sides really are as bad as each other, in their own way.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Actually, Dave, this has been resolved. UKTV repeat channels have gone.

---------- Post added at 20:57 ---------- Previous post was at 20:55 ----------

Yes, but do Now TV want to devalue their offering with a whole bunch of channels showing little other than repeats?

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Repeats that some people like watching and not all of the programming is repeats Inside the Ambulance, 999 Rescue squad, Inside the Fire, John Bishop in conversation with, Murder on the Blackpool Express, Rebel, Marleys Ghost, Dinnerladies diaries, Blackadders most cunning moments were new.

Granted the last two were talking about repeats :-)

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

You do know that 99% of cable TV are repeats OB? Expensive American trash, or cheap British classics, your choice, or used to be ;)

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Is that meant to inspire anyone? :rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Just because you dont like those shows does not mean nobody else does either. Horses for courses etc.

I do like the shows I mentioned yes. Would you be happy if channels that had the programming you enjoy were removed??

The list is not intended to inspire it is purely an example of new shows that UKTV have shown.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Not the programmes I watch, old chap.

Hopefully, VM are now starting to aim higher. I have been drawing attention to the deteriorating quality of pay tv programmes and the vastly sperior offerings of Netflix and Amazon for some time.

Clearly, Virgin Media are responding to the challenge, and good on them for that. Unless they do something now, people will opt for streaming and ignore the cable offering.

Virgin need to be cognisant of that, improve the quality of their pay tv channels and increase the number of apps on their service.

They cannot afford to fall behind.

---------- Post added at 22:25 ---------- Previous post was at 22:21 ----------

I am all for Virgin having a comprehensive choice of programming, of course. But not at any price. UKTV are just rip-off merchants.

Also, I would say that most people taking out a pay tv subscription for the first time expect to get rather more than endless repeats of old programmes they have seen before. They can get those already on BBC1 in summer time!

We all deserve better.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Anyone got any ideas for new channels or streaming services for channels we have lost? They need to be of better quality!

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

GOLD is already on Now TV. It would be an ideal time for them to pick up VM customers past or present, which is presumably why negotiations are taking place to add the UKTV channels.

---------- Post added at 03:40 ---------- Previous post was at 03:38 ----------

The profit that the BBC make from UKTV goes to help keep the TV Licence fee down and invest in new programming.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

What programs of superiority do you mean that's on Amazon and Netflix? I've looked at the offers and not been impressed enough to sub to them.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Both Netflix and Amazon have good stuff that said they also have lots of junk as well.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

lets hope VM got something up there sleeves as UKTV channel aint coming back

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

I wouldn't rule it out as Ofcom are now meeting with both parties.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

uktv saying it even more unlikely now with the channel slots out for bids they are even less happy now so cant see it being resolved but hope it can be just cant see it sadly

Official UKTV
‏
Verified account

@UKTV
2m
2 minutes ago


More
Replying to @Skynet_TX @SkyUK @virginmedia
If it helps, we've heard from Virgin Media, but they are now asking other broadcasters to buy our slots - so our channels coming back is looking ever unlikely, sadly

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

What do you think OFCOM can do Richard? VM is a private company and can't be forced to take channels if it isn't prepared to pay the amount requested by UKTV.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

In terms of the commercial side, absolutely right. There's been intimations on here and some other threads about the whole FTA thing, carriage fees on one platform but not another etc. I should imagine Ofcom would want a level playing field with that.

Otherwise I suspect restoration depends on which company is getting hurt the most at the moment, and therefore who is more likely to want an escape route.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Virgin are still using the statement below as a reply and said it to me on Twitter 2 hours ago I said to them and UKTV the following in response to the slots being put up for auction.

Perhaps they are asking other broadcasters as a tactic to encourage a deal between yourselves before its to late. If only those at the top of UKTV and VM would sort this out put the customer first

Hi Steve. We’re still talking to UKTV and have offered to restore UKTV’s free channels for our customers immediately with their permission. We’re ready when they are. Read more here:

So who knows maybe the channels will return? Hopefully they will but I wont hold my breath.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Haven't missed them at all, personally.

I hope this new content is going to be UK sourced not even more Crap from the USA.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Well, the decision to auction off the EPG slots so soon is nothing short of inflammatory and will do nothing to help negotiations.

---------- Post added at 17:25 ---------- Previous post was at 17:21 ----------

They say that they are to mediate between the two sides and have expressed concern on the fairness of the VM customer contract. If either side refuse to take part, I imagine that they will make this public. This would have the effect of influencing public perception, rightly or wrongly, as to who is to blame.

Ofcom can't force VM to restore the channels, but if no agreement is made, I suspect that they will refer the matter to a more appropriate body with regards to the contract issue.

---------- Post added at 17:31 ---------- Previous post was at 17:25 ----------

What normally happens with companies in these situations is that it becomes a matter of pride and either side not wanting to be seen with egg on their face. Often the guy/s at the top 'go on to do other thing's, resign 'to spend more time with their family' etc.

It took a change of personnel before the Sky basics dispute was settled.

You're right, as always, money will certainly play a major part in getting this sorted out. Then we can expect a gushing statements from both companies about how pleased they are to continue building on their partnership into the future etc etc.

VM have yet to feel the full financial effects of the situation because they are forcing customers to stay with them, but they must surely realise that, as contracts expire, people will want to move to another provider to regain the channels or out of pure resentment for the way they've been treated.

This whole incident (and the realisation that ITV could have been removed) has also had the effect of putting off new potential customers. Many people have stated that they have effectively lost confidence in the platform to continue to provide the channels that they signed up for, whether these include the actual channels involved or not.

For the majority of channels, as a closed platform, it's entirely up to VM and successful carriage negotiations which channels are carried. This isn't the same with satellite or even Freeview and I think it was very unwise of VM to highlight this fact to the public.

They clearly didn't look at the bigger picture when embarking on this course of action.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

same could be said about uktv telling everyone to switch providers

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

UKTV telling Virgin Media customers to switch suppliers is just childish and reeks of desperation.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Indeed it could.

Indidently, I have also learnt that Sky are proactively contacting those who complained on social media with very decent offers to switch.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Yep. The twitter feed has loads of VM customers they are trying to sign up

https://twitter.com/SkyUK/with_replies

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Well, VM can't be expected to hold the channel numbers open forever, Richard. The two sides cannot agree. The negotiations are over and relationships have broken down.

There comes a point when you have to move on.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Why ? It's practical advice if the customer wants to watch UKTV channels. Many may not be aware some are on Freeview and may review their need for VM. I see this hurting VM more in the long run, than UKTV, other providers are now going to highlight the channels VM don't provide.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Very much doubt that this will hurt virgin, in the long run l think the big loser will be UKTV.loss of viewers, and the cut in advertising revenue.Plus the cost savings of not paying them carriage charges.:rolleyes:

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

I really cannot see that, only a very small proportion of VM customers are going to move else where for a few repeat channels.
Whereas UKTV loose access to 4 million customers and advertisers will be looking for a reduction in fees, plus they will be getting nothing from VM.
Meanwhile VM have saved money.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

The real losers of course are the Virgin Media customers who WANT to watch UK Gold,W,Alibi but now have to seek other ways of seeing them.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

That depends on how many customers they lose, and discounts they have to give to retain others.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

The more I consider the course of events the more I believe VM knew what was going to happen (ie UKTV programmes would leave VM) and had weighed up in advance the costs and risks involved. I believe this because all of a sudden replacement channels were available, something which by past experience takes months or even years to negotiate. Rather than ITV holding VM to ransom, perhaps it was the other way round. By standing firm to UKTV, VM were showing they were not going to be messed about by ITV who have much to lose if they are not on VM. Only those in the room where negotiations take place really know. I doubt they are contributing to this forum.

VM know that many people are in a similar position to me. That is that money is limited and to get good broadband speed as well as adequate TV is going to cost more away from VM. I watched a lot on Drama in particular but it is not the end of the world! There is more in life than TV.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

This pretty close to my view except for the money part . Broadband is the reason l choose to stay.can always work around the few programs not available now. Can't says the new ones bring anything to my table.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Personally I think Virgin Media's broadband is too expensive.. They offer massive speeds that the average household doesn't need nor want then charge an arm and a leg for.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Not after a week though, at best it's been done to put pressure on UKTV , at worst to be downright antagonistic.

Slot 106 was dormant for a long time before it was auctioned off to Channel 4.

---------- Post added at 00:42 ---------- Previous post was at 00:39 ----------

The postings on various internet sites and complaints to Ofcom about people not being able to get through to cancel suggest otherwise.

---------- Post added at 00:51 ---------- Previous post was at 00:42 ----------

The new channels were either timed to launch on the weekend the UKTV channels were removed eg Paramount started late and Quest HD started early (which they had to take back down!) or negotiated at the last minute as per VM themselves.

I do think though, that it does question the mantra that VM always say about these things always taking a long time to sort out.

I think it's pretty clear that VM is superior for BB and Sky superior for channel choice. I always assumed that this would be an expensive way to do it as you would lose the triple play discounts but, apparently, this isn't always the case. I've seen posts where people have cancelled all VM services because of the removal of the UKTV channels, but VM have given them a good deal to remain with them for BB. Couple this with the financial incentives that Sky are offering to try and poach VM customers and it can actually work out cheaper!

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Well it's certainly deliberate for some reason. I'd have thought VM would want to leave the door open for a period of time and the announcement last week did seem rather soon.

Forcing the issue possibly. Make a point maybe. Dunno.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

Well, we can big this up to our hearts content, but the fact is that the UKTV channels are unlikely to come back, which Virgin recognise, and some viewers will be lost.

Then we get some more channels, some of which will be in UHD, possibly putting Virgin ahead of the game again, encouraging new subscribers.

It's business, and customers pays their money and takes their choice. It has always been thus.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

from the vm forum

Had a call from VM Complaints Department today (in response to my letter re lost UKTV channels) and he told me they are close to agreement on restoring SOME of the lost channels and an official announcement will be made in the next few days, as soon as details finalised. When I rang Customer Services to check they confirmed that it is true.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

So by some that's likely to be the freeview ones.

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

I would guess so

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

uktv still saying unlikely

Official UKTV
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@UKTV
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22 minutes ago


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Replying to @mrsp1974 @virginmedia
Hi, at the moment it's looking unlikely that we'll be retuning to Virgin Media. We are truly sorry that this has happened.

---------- Post added at 15:08 ---------- Previous post was at 15:05 ----------

Official UKTV
‏
Verified account

@UKTV
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21 minutes ago


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Replying to @evcarmike @SkyUK and 2 others
Hi Mike, we know there's a lot of information flying around which is frustrating. We can’t give our channels away for free to a company that charges our viewers to watch but not does not pass any of that back to us to invest in more shows. We're sorry that his has happened

Re: Virgin Media & UKTV+ITV Channels
 

That at least would be something. Although I can get Freeview, having recordings in one place is more convenient. However theres no such suggestion from UKTV. Surely VM wouldn't just be saying anything to stop customers cancelling , would they ? ;)

---------- Post added at 15:17 ---------- Previous post was at 15:15 ----------

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