Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

He isn't fit to lead an aged aunt to the toilet :D

---------- Post added at 10:51 ---------- Previous post was at 10:47 ----------

They are well worth reading.

Why you shouldn’t vote for Jeremy Corbyn

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Ah yes, the Inverse Midas Touch, where everything he touches turns to <insert preferred euphemism for poo>

This power is also granted to BT...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

He stumbles from one self inflicted injury to the next and yet still has his devout followers and will likely win the leadership election although owen smith saying he'll try to block brexit has basically shown neither leadership option is very credible. It's just plain painful to watch now i keep waiting for the vet to turn up and put the lame horse out of it's and our misery.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

He meant to say Colonel Sanders of KFC not Bernie Sanders :)

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

It's quite staggering to think that the Labour party, having been wiped out in Scotland, has descended into this chaos and than none of the senior figures seem to be prepared to bite the bullet. It's quite clear that the lunatics are running the party asylum and the only way for the UK to regain an official opposition worthy of the title is now for them to split, leave Corbyn and his nutters to emulate George Galloway and get on with giving the country what it needs. The absence of any such imperative from within the massed Labour MP ranks says a great deal about the lack of leadership and conviction amongst them.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Its amazing how quiet and generally useless all the Labour "Big Beasts" are at the moment. Not a peep out of Hilary Benn for example.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I expect they're keeping their heads down waiting for the party to implode, discredit the hard left and then make their bid for a new style party of the moderate members with more "kerb appeal". I think that is likely to be a decade away at least. For the moment the mutual blood letting continues.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

They're worried the Labour brand is too strong. There is a good solid base of people that will tick the Labour box no matter what, the Tories and Labour could switch names and they would tick the Labour box.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

That'll be why Labour's been virtually wiped out in many places then. ;) The Labour brand has, IMHO, been fatally flawed and its value undermined - hence the appalling election results in Scotland and almost all other traditional Labour strongholds at a time when the incumbent Govt. was far from popular.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

It just gets better and better...

Are Corbyn and McDonnell Tory sleeper agents?

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/la...rbyn-vvkxgzjwz (behind paywall)

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Hmm Corbyn & McDonnell - now that could be a good name for a comedy due specialising in political satire... :D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Linky

Champagne socialists. :rolleyes:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

tbf, he has probably lived in the Islington house for a couple of decades, from when houses there were dirt cheap, due to it not being a very salubrious area...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

While 138k a year is a damn good wage not sure I'd put him in the rich bracket based off that and as Hugh said he's probably lived in the house for quite a while so appearence is not reflecting reality. I can't stand the man i think he's a waste of space and he hands out all the ammo you could ever need to attack him but i don't think this particular angle is wise.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

5 times the average salary, wonder how many times the average salary jailbird brooks is getting, imo one of the biggest scandals of recent years is how executive pay has rocketed whilst other employees has stagnated or been cut, let's hope the sun turn this into a campaign

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I see Corbyn's sidekick is talking about taking away Branson's knighthood now because he's a tax exile and is trying to undermine democracy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-37208527

Undermining democracy? :nutter:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Nah ,it's cos Branson had the cheek to question Corbyns version of traingate ;)

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

They wouldn't stoop to that level would they? :shrug: ;)

Anyway, it'd be interesting to know whether Labour has any tax exile/avoiding donors that McDonnell ought to feel equally uncomfortable about.

Corbyn's running of Labour reminds me of the sort of unpleasant loony left antics the student union used to employ in my days as a student. It's almost as these guys haven't ever grown up...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

you mean like this guy

Andrew Rosenfeld

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Didn't they (presumably inadvertently) call for their biggest donor to be stripped of their gong recently

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Look it's really not fair to point these things out because Corbyn is clearly the new Messiah and would certainly never allow his party to have any truck with such mortal weaknesses as hypocrisy, lies, duplcity, spin, intimidation, threats or violence...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Just shows what kind of country we would be in if they got into power.

Dare anyone question them.

Thought police are on their way.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Yes Labour has always taken a very hard line on tax avoidance:

http://order-order.com/2016/04/05/la...odging-donors/

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Well well well, wonder if heads will roll

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.t...android-h3g-gb

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Nah ,it's only Virgin policy that has been broken and the owner of the company is entitled to make new policy as he sees fit.Besides what's Corbyn going to do ? demand heads roll because they caught him lying and fabricating stuff to make a particular company look bad

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

He's doesn't own virgin trains, he's a partner in it, wonder if stagecoach are happy with him running roughshod over company policy and possibly breaking the law in the process, seems no one is coming out of this smelling particularly good

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

It seems to me that the Graun is just very, very sore that they were the ones who swallowed Jezza's fake tape in the first place and they're now frantically trying to turn the story into something else (but why bother? The news cycle has moved on, nobody else is talking about it now).

Company policy is not law, and Branson's personal licence to interfere in any business carrying his name, regardless of the size of his actual shareholding, is legendary. I doubt very much whether Brian Souter or anyone else at Stagecaoch is going to raise an eyebrow over this, not least because Souter is a major SNP donor and really doesn't like the Labour Party very much.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Policies are guidelines - a senior manager can over-ride policies and procedures, as long as it is signed off by Governance and Audit (for instance, protecting the company's reputation against false claims...).

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Rumour has it that the Corbynistas have just placed a large order for more straws to clutch at... :D

More seriously this does betray, just how pathetic these people are. They get caught out, again, and instead at looking at themselves and their own behaviour, they resort to nastiness and intimidation. They've been doing it for decades and have evidently learned nothing about how to conduct themselves with some dignity in the process. Either Corbyn's being dragged along by the rent a mob crew who're propping him up or he's happy for his party to conduct itself in this unpleasant manner. Either way it doesn't say much for him, his leadership qualities or his new brand of politics...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

absolutely they will ,after all as you point out it's half their company that has been dragged through the mud .


I have no problem at all with Branson exposing the official opposition to HMG for the liars they are .

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

You're right, if they have no respect for the actual law then a little thing like company policy isn't going to get in the way.

Wonder if richard has any cctv of the guy who had to stand by the bog for an hour and a half

---------- Post added at 17:35 ---------- Previous post was at 17:32 ----------

Dragged through the mud by Richard, this story would never have been more than a byline without his interference and the old adage about all publicity is good publicity isn't true in the modern age. I have no problem with people being exposed as liars either, just as long as the person exposing them isn't behaving just as bad.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

All that Branson has done is release evidence that casts Corbyns claim into doubt ,if it was my company being lied about i would do the same as anyone would ,your going on as if Branson has made up some footage to screw Corbyn

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I very much doubt that Branson would have had access to that CCTV without having had it all signed off by Virgin East Coast at a high level and, unike Corbyn, Branson has the sense to have (probably) run it past his legal team to cross the Ts and dot the Is. Personally I think the CCTV legwork was done by Virgin East Coast, and then they simply got Branson (or an aide) to tweet it on his account as it would be more effective than coming from the Virgin EC account.

As for it being "right" for Virgin East Coast or Branson to release the footage, a claim was made against them that at best could be considered mistaken, or at worst considered libellous/defamatory. They're perfectly within their rights to put their side of the story out and cast whatever doubts they wish on the sainted Jez.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Well I guess it's hard for some people to accept the unpalatable truth about their Messiah...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The simple fact is that Corbyn made a complete bodge of the entire publicity stunt. He'd got a few things right, in that he actually was on a train (rather than a bus) and had brought a freelance film maker with him, but he cocked up good and proper in a few more ways:

1: He picked the wrong line to make the point. Anyone with half a brain would have done this stunt on a Southern rail morning commuter service in to London. They're always rammed, Southern are currently in industrial dispute with their unions (making the situation worse) and he couldn't have got a seat if he'd tried.

2: He decided to do the stunt on the train he was taking to a well publicised hustings event in Newcastle. This had been planned many weeks in advance. Claiming he couldn't get a seat on that train makes him and his team look like some kind of ramshackle outfit who can't even pre-book a railway ticket with seat reservations. Either that, or they care so little about campaign/party funds they're buying short notice tickets without seat reservations.

3: When the CCTV came to light, the hilarious ways the Corbyn camp tried to tell everyone that they weren't seeing what they they were seeing were manifold and easily disproved. The story went from

Corbyn couldn't get a seat and sat on the floor all the way to the toon

to

Corbyn was helped to a seat 40 mins in to the journey by train staff

to

Corbyn had seen empty seats, but wanted two seats together so he and his wife could sit together

In the space of about 24 hours. They'd gambled that Virgin East Coast wouldn't comment on the claims, but they lost big time

and

4: They let John McDonnell sound off like a spoilt six year old about stripping knighthoods because Richard Branson is sensible enough to minimise his tax bills.

Face it, it was a plan that could have gone well, if it hadn't been organised by a bunch of political half-wits who make the Chuckle Brothers look like the Kennedy clan.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

He only needed to try a train to Victoria on the Southern coastline in rush hour. Sardines were never packed this tight.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Exposing full trains at peak times isn't exactly a revelation is it. During the years my wife and I spent suffering at the hands of BR, the trains and the service in general was far, far worse, as was the attitude of an awful lot of the staff we came across who were rude and unhelpful.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Nationalised railways were simply appalling. How anybody could think that they would be a better proposition to what we have now shows the shocking level of their ignorance

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Yup bizarre. Can anyone seriously imagine the mess Corbyn and Co. would make of running the railways or the NHS? They can't even run their own party... :D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Nationalised industry (with added Tony Benn!) gave us the Austin Allegro and Morris Marina

Private enterprise gave us the Vauxhall Astra.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Austin Allegro ,couldn't even make a Steering wheel round :D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The early ones were so flexible that the rear window could pop out when you jacked them up. Nationalisation at it's best. Like British steel loosing £3m a day. Corbyn and Smith would have us back in the seventies at full throttle.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Ahhh yes, bring back the good old days of Red Robbo, Scargill, Jack Dash, Jack Jones and all the other troublemakers who succeeded in ruining their own industries.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The Labour industrial policy of the 60s and 70s was basically this:

Take an industry, in this case car making (but the same applied to IT, aerospace and others) and "encourage" various firms in that industry to merge to become one large company. In our case BMC (who owned Austin, Morris, MG, Wolsley, Riley and built some tractors and light vans and were racking up serious losses) were "encouraged" to merge with Leyland Motors, who at the time were making profits selling trucks and busses around the world, to create British Leyland.

The idea was that these British "super firms" would be more able to compete internationally than individual firms. However, what happened was that unlike the hostile takeovers that had created BMC and Leyland in the first place, there was no competitive drive to push the company in to developing better products. British Leyland knew it didn't have to build world beating trucks and busses as the government (through local bus companies and nationalised haulage businesses) would always buy whatever it built.

This loss of competitiveness caused serious operational issues, with money from profitable parts of the business being used to shore up loss making divisions, because pulling out of those areas of business and closing factories was politically impossible.

Also, your average Red Robbo knew that strikes would always lead to what they were asking for, because the Government had, essentially, a bottomless pit of money and didn't want to lose political points.

However the worst idea was that of Tony Benn, who decided that the Unions should be given a direct say in how British Leyland was run. The problem was that while Ford considered itself in business to make money by making cars, BL, according to the unions, was there to provide employment, and profitability was not a pressing concern...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Err no I'm not, I'm going on as if Branson or who ever has broken the law and if it's found that they have then they should be punished, that's all that's been done, just a little bit of illegal activity, possibly

---------- Post added at 19:28 ---------- Previous post was at 19:25 ----------

Or the good old days of a several months ago when a nationalised railway was making money for the country and since it's been private fares have gone up twice, cheap ticket use has been altered for the worse and staff cut

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Company policies aren't law. The Guardian article doesn't (As far as I can tell) claim any laws have been broken.

There are laws regarding the release of this kind of thing under the Data Protection Act, but most sources seem to agree that Virgin were in the clear with regards to that.

Face it, Corbyn's had his bright red socialist backside handed to him on a plate by a bearded pullover enthusiast...

---------- Post added at 19:32 ---------- Previous post was at 19:28 ----------

Everyone apparently raves about "East Coast", however it was run on very strict commercial lines, and the fact the government was the shareholder didn't make much difference.

Also, what is the actual benefit of Nationalisation? Except possibly the warm, fuzzy feeling in the heart of a few 70s throwbacks and Unions salavting at the prospect of being able to strike without ever actually putting their employer out of business.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Who claimed company policy was law? and from what I've read there are data protection issues that need to be answered.

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_57...b042aee74dca3e

Oh and face up to what, I couldn't give a toss about corbyn and I think the whole episode isn't worth the time devoted to it so far.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Directly Operated Railways (DOR) had a remit to keep the service ticking over until a new private operator could be found. No money was being set aside for innovation or investment. Theirs was a temporary business model, unsustainable in the long term.

Virgin, however, has a strategy to develop the line and to invest in it. That may require the line's customers to pay more.

In time, we will see how well Virgin runs the line and how well used it is. Only then will we see whether DOR's management of the line was as good as nostalgic lefties have been claiming.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

To be fair his Brand, is his business, and he should defend it where applicable.

---------- Post added at 21:35 ---------- Previous post was at 21:30 ----------

It shouldn't be a byline.

The leader of the opposition fabricates a situation and outright lies to the nation.

Not spin, not bending the truth. Outright, thought out deception.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

May require customers to pay more, iirc virgin have increased prices twice already, cut staff and messed about with the times you can book a cheaper ticket. Just because things were bad before most of us were born there's no reason nationalisation today has to echo the bad old days.

---------- Post added at 22:28 ---------- Previous post was at 22:26 ----------

It's means nothing in the big scheme of things, what's been done about all the lies told during brexit or the illegal wars liars have led us into but sit down on the floor of a train and all hell breaks loose, Corbyn's a liar, big deal, he's in good company with the rest of them then

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Sorry, but as a regular user of the west coast mainline since the very earliest days of privatisation, I have had a chance to see, up close and personal, what state BR left it in and how Virgin has turned it round. They didn't mess about with the WCML; they rescued it. They are in rail to develop sustainable business models for the long run (unlike the last two companies that took on the ECML who greedily over-bid for a franchise arrangement that carried very little risks if/when it failed to come off). Yes, if that costs more, then those who use the service are going to have to pay for it. If it was over-manned (a common problem in state-run concerns) then some people are going to lose their jobs. If the concession tickets are excessively generous, then there will be fewer of them. The railways have a social purpose but they must pay their way as far as possible, and my experience of Virgin on the west coast is that they are going to be able to deliver that.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

it does if he's a potential Prime Minister. that's not what we're talking about. They're separate, but valid, issues.

he's supposed to be the alternative...... The man of the people.........anti-establishment.....a man you can trust........believe in.........

But no, as agreed by you he is just another self serving, lying ( proven), gravy train politician.........so what is the frolicking point?

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

It's the second fare rise this year!

http://m.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/...nd_fares_hike/

Let's not even go into their franchise agreement either which saw them bid over a third more than their competitors, who is going to end up paying for that in the end.

---------- Post added at 03:07 ---------- Previous post was at 02:56 ----------

He's not, he's turned labour into a protest movement, there's more there's more chance of you becoming next pm



Darn right they're separate issues, they're actually big issues rather than this nonsense. I forgot about hunt, he's told some massive lies and is in court very soon where they'll be exposed, I wonder what the backlash will be for messing with the health service but I fear it'll slip under the radar without pictures for us all to look at

Yep that's pretty much what he is sadly, when he first got labour's top job I really did have high hopes for him and thought he could do a lot of good but he's just out of his depth, as a constituency mp and activist I have no doubt he's very good but this was beyond him, anyone that was clinging on to the belief he was anything but after all these months deserves all they get and they really should purchase these magic beans from me.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Please form an orderly queue thank you.:D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Polls show Jeremy Corbyn will win the Labour leadership with higher numbers than before – Smith only has himself to blame

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a7218016.html

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Of course he will, the Corbynistas will see to it. They're just as deluded as Corbyn is.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I think that if Virgin Trains have put there prices up again. Havent VM put there prices up THREE TIMES since last year.

AND are going to do it again, after we received an email from VM recently. At least Virgin Trains are moving with the times - get the pun.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

It's fitting that the sort of behaviour and tactics which so many militant unions perfected and through which managed to ruin their own industries is now being employed by those of similar mindset to destroy their own party. Well done guys, well done... :clap: :clap: :clap:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I can see from Twitter, that JK Rawlings is being heckled for saying things about Corbyn. This no longer about Politics.
This is now turning nasty.

The Labour Party is about the working class. All this fighting with the guys who have paid money to get Corbyn elected.

Its is totally wrong

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

jk who????????????????????????????????????

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I think he did a book on fly fishing...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

There was a time, many years ago, when the Labour party championed the working class. They don't any more, they are the party of the non-working class, immigrants, union bosses, benefit claimants, etc. They hate people who have jobs, work hard, pay their taxes and get on in life.

Having lost touch with their roots they are becoming increasingly irrelevant to most people.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The Labour Party is now all about the obsessions of the metropolitan liberal left. Any similarity between their views and those of the British working class is entirely coincidental.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Yep, what Rhodri Morgan (ex Welsh First Minister) described as "Guacamole Labour". Working class Labour is "Mushy Peas Labour".

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Not liberal left. Liberalism is a dirty word among the Corbynista/SWP types because it runs counter to the idea of a collective. In fact they probably hate the liberal left more than they hate the right. The right are just their opposition but liberals are traitors, the enemy within, who undermine the socialist utopia. They've seen the light but rejected it.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Spot on. The Liberals are those evil Blairite capitalists in Progress, and of course the traitorous Liberal Democrats who compromised their ideological purity.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Maybe he means the guy who invented those DIY plastic wall plugs... :shrug:



:D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

ln the traditional sense do we actually have a working class anymore ? is Labour so far removed from reality that they haven't yet realised that the traditional working class man is more like middle class with 2 cars and a couple of kids at university

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Don't worry. Cornyn's got a great plan to get back the UKIP vote: http://www.itv.com/news/2016-09-02/j...ainst-mothers/

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

After work drinks culture?

Never heard of it.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Really, Jeremy? In my experience women rather like the time away, and I can't say I like the implication that men specifically would rather be at the boozer than with their kids.

21st century paging Mr Corbyn.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

So Jeremy attends an early evening,male dominated networking drinks party at CBI HQ and promptly tells everyone else it's a bad thing to do.....seriously couldn't make this stuff up :rolleyes:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Back to PMQs today. Corbyn's performance was abysmal as always, reciting written down questions, not reacting appropriately to May's responses, which were poor, and producing a topic that is not news worthy and will achieve nothing.

The week of a rather uncomfortable G20 meeting for the UK where the USA told us we were nuts for Brexit and Japan listed a variety of warnings for their future investment, amongst other things, he has the chance to really get at the apparent complete lack of progress towards Brexit and show up the lack of a plan.

He asks canned questions on housing, important but there's a time and a place, and doesn't react when the PM comes out with a response that's simply inaccurate.

He is a joke. He is such a joke it's impacting on May's performance, she's nothing to work with.

The opposition came, again, from the SNP today, asking relevant and timely questions.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

As I've said before, Corbyn really doesn't care about the day-to-day work of being the leader of HM loyal opposition. Neither is he skilled at debating or arguing why his plans are the right ones.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

So what's the point of him ?

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Your guess is as good as mine...

But to be serious, his job is to let the really nasty Marxist/Trotskyite types, which were thrown out of the party 30 years ago, back in and let them take over the machinery of the Labour party so they can take their rightful place in government.

Unfortunately, they don't seem to realise that the public don't really care for them...

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

A Lightning rod for militant tendency. Labour to become the party of protest, not government. Much like the discredited Lib Dems.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37329153

More bad news for Corbyn and his nasty cronies.

It says a great deal about those who're so desperate to back him that they continue to see a completely out of touch idiot as a useful tool, let alone the inspirational leader who'll take them and their delusional politics into power.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

but the alternative is this numpty who clearly hates democracy and would probably spark off a civil war
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/709...me-minister-eu

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

You do have to wonder how Labour has 'evolved' into a party in which the only serious challenger to an out of touch lefty dinosaur is a total tool. Is the rose tinted cupboard really that bare? Where are the 'heavweights' who not too long ago would have been or seen themselves as cabinet members? FGS just look at Corbyn's shadow cabinet. Who'd have thought things could be so bad that Miliband and Balls would seem almost credible when compared to the current incumbents.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The USA is trying; we're blazing the trail, though.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Another seriously high calibre Labour cabinet member:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37332287

:D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Well they have been sidelined. Miliband opened up the membership to try and dilute the power of the union bosses over the party. The UK however doesn't have mass membership of political parties so this new membership system saw a committed bunch of activists come in and take over the party.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I always said that he was a fool. Can you imagine where we'd be if he'd been PM? Ah well... it's a lot more entertaining than a good deal of comedy on TV anyway. :)

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

You what?

Milliband was a Union puppet, put in place by the unions because they knew his brother would truly keep power away from them.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

One man's puppet is another man's Corbyn.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Linky

Just which part of brexit does he not understand? :rolleyes:

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Presumably the flip side of the campaigns after the vote to remain 40 years ago that eventually led to our voting to leave in June.

Getting kinda boring now the whinging about even the slightest bit of dissent to the Brexit mantra that we will be a glorious, free nation outside of the evil EU's shackles, any negative news is absolutely nothing to do with Brexit and to suggest otherwise is traitorous and a sign of stupidity.

If the view of the people changes, perhaps due to it becoming clear they were sold their vote based on lies it's perfectly reasonable to reflect those views. If a party wins an election with a key part of their manifesto being to rejoin the EU they've a mandate to do so.

Which part of that democracy allows people to continue making the case and debate even after a vote don't you understand?

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Well that's the way to negotiate effectively isn't it. Bit like Corbyn telling the world he'd never use our nuclear deterrent...

---------- Post added at 17:57 ---------- Previous post was at 15:57 ----------

Corbyn's seat could be abolished:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37342828

In the past I'd have expected howls of outrage to the effect that it's all a nasty Tory plot against the Labour 'messiah' but I have a feeling they'll be delighted to have Corbyn 'running' the circus for as long as possible. :D

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

I'm getting bored of some people constantly acting like everyone that voted for brexit only did so because of the leave campaign nothing at all to do with experience of 40+ years in the euro club. Clearly every brexit voter is such a moron that they couldn't possibly vote for brexit because they genuinely felt it was the right thing to do or because their experience wasn't pro EU no only remainers did that because they are so much smarter then brexit voters.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Just as well no-one on here has done that, at least that I've read for a while.

The experience thing is getting boring, too. Very few of us were actually qualified to make an educated decision on this, regardless of 'experience'. I certainly wasn't. For better or worse it's been a while since many of us blindly deferred to those older and more 'experienced'.

---------- Post added at 23:47 ---------- Previous post was at 23:41 ----------

So here's your 'experience'.

Wonder who you're planning on blaming for the problems when migration is lower again? Perhaps you should look more closely at the failure to build adequate numbers of houses when 300,000 a year was quite doable in the past, or not properly funding the health service in the face of an ageing population. Many of the issues your kids are facing are nothing to do with immigrants and everything to do with the policies adopted by Conservatives and, then, to a lesser but still present extent, Labour.

Our immigration rate is way lower than other places, including some with the points based immigration so craved by many. They manage. We have grossly mismanaged as a country.

You're neither a git or a nasty piece of work, although the comment about people 'looking to have a better life handed on a plate to them' isn't exactly pleasant, but the blame for the issues your kids are facing, and I fear for my own also, belongs elsewhere.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Yeah we can keep taking hundreds of thousands hell why not a few more million like the last decade it doesn't create any problems does it.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Iirc he's seat is being amalgamated with diane abbot's and another female labour mps seat, again iirc if a female labour mp stands down an all female shortlist is required to replace her, bit more bad luck for jeremy if that's so

---------- Post added at 06:46 ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 ----------


Indeed most of what was said about the EU was more to do with successive government's and their policies. I remember, well I don't, I've heard about the halcyon days when labour and conservative government's used to try and out do each other with social housing building programmes

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The migrants from the EU were unquestionably a net positive. If the governments of the day didn't see fit to properly invest the financial returns from their working and paying their taxes here that was their failing.

EU migrants were, for the most part, young, healthy and childless. They worked, paid taxes, drew relatively little out.

The same can't be said for large groups of migrants from Southern Asia, emigrating here as hangovers from the Empire days. They're the ones who you alluded to as demanding that the country accommodate them. The most Polish tended to want was a sklep that sold their exotic sausages and Tyskie to wash them down.

Guess which group Brexit doesn't impact?

Oops.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

It's what I said. The changes to the membership were on of the measures he took after the Falkirk scandal to curtail union leaders.

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

You raise an interesting point. Brexit was partly won by people who wanted zero or much reduced net migration. The EU was the target for this ill but, looking at the figures on MigrationWatch:


Net Migration Statistics

This "other" net migration was not discussed, from memory, but as you point out is likely to be a bigger issue for the UK. The irony ..

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

it was also won on the 350 million a week to the NHS

I am getting more confident each day that this will not happen, either through 2nd vote, vote on the deal or an all but name Eu membership

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

The "other" migration could be controlled with enough political will ,Eu migration could not .Having the ability to control migration from the EU is what matters and the only reason why some voted to leave

Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
 

Yes, with the political will (clearly still lacking) there's a lot which could and is needs to be done to control non EU migration and the abuses of it. The virtually unfettered right of EU citizens to travel and work anywhere they choose (including any of the countless thousands of migrants who'll sooner or later be given citizenship of other EU states) was and still is a major issue, just not the only one. Non EU migration was irrelevant to the Brexit debate but it's certainly just as big a problem to those of us who believe that we ought to be able to control both the number and nature of people allowed to come, work, reside and remain in the UK.