Re: Doctor Who
 

I think they weren't concerned about him as he technically wasn't the bad guy, but getting used by the Master. So was of no real concern.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Got got round to watching both episodes this evening.
As episodes go, they were ok I suppose, despite JW, who just ruins it for me.

At least the Master was back, and evil.

Re: Doctor Who
 

*sigh* - back to the lectures this week ....

Re: Doctor Who
 

I'd hardly call it a lecture. Just a sci-fi story using real and current events.

They way sci-fi has always done really.

I really enjoyed the episode.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Maybe we need it !

Re: Doctor Who
 

It's all part of the woke culture that has infiltrated every department at the BBC. Drama was the last to go.

Re: Doctor Who
 

It's part of art in general, this isn't sudden. Art and politics have always mixed and especially in Science fiction.

It's just everyone is more sensitive to it now, especially if they disagree with the message. (Also IMO British television writing seems to sledgehammer the message home rather just in case the audience doesn't get it)

Re: Doctor Who
 

Anything that asks a mainstream audience to look up from their smartphones and concentrate is a tough ask these days. So maybe subtle doesn't work. . The BBC1 audience are used to the Antiques Roadshow at that time, or crap like 'Strictly Come Dancing on the Celebrity Xfactor Talented Dining Ice' , or somebody slagging someone off in EastEnders... They can follow that.

I'd bung it on BBC4 and sod the ratings (and also regenerate the Dr if course. She's good actress but just doesn't have the eccentricity or believability that she's an older version of the other Drs.)

Re: Doctor Who
 

Just in case you missed the last lecture, they rammed it in again this week.

Oh, and just to tick another PC box, the married couple were of course both male.

Its getting very tiresome now.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Got bored with it towards the end of David Tenants run, interest was piqued mildly when John Hurt was in it but that soon dissipated and not really watched it since, doesn't sound like I've missed much, I thought the show in desperate need of a hiatus years ago and now by the sounds of it needs to be put out of it's misery

Re: Doctor Who
 

I don't get why some people keep sayings it's preachy and PC, or there is agendas.

It was an alien virus that just happened to use plastic to spread. Not that different to the Nestene/Autons.

Also a gay couple, no problem with that.

I enjoyed it as I always do, I am just watching a fun sci-fi show.

Re: Doctor Who
 

I hope they were of different ethnicity too,otherwise that wouldn't be diverse enough.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Well, I've enjoyed the new series of Doctor Who, far more than I have any series since David Tennant left. I've enjoyed them all, but this one the most.

Personally, where they do include couples, I have no problem with those couples being gay. I think that Dr Who has just about got the balance right this series. The fact the couple in last night's episode were gay wasn't a thing itself, they just were. As Grace and Graham (Bradley Walsh's character) were treated as just a couple, without fanfare.

Just because you don't enjoy it doesn't mean others don't. I hate Mrs Brown's Boys, but that doesn't mean I am calling for it to be axed and replaced with a decent comedy.

---------- Post added at 14:05 ---------- Previous post was at 14:04 ----------

Actually, seeing all these moans reminds me of what was apparently Viz's first letter, which just moaned the magazine wasn't as good as it used to be.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Doctor Who’s interest in topical environmental issues is just about as old as the show itself. It really is nothing new.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Re: Doctor Who
 

Three examples across 15 years ..... and pretty tame at that.
Blink and you would miss two of them, and the other was throwaway lines about Jo leaving, not the subject of the episode.
That as opposed to multiple episodes in one season (and bluntly rammed down your throat multiple times, lecture style).

---------- Post added at 02:35 ---------- Previous post was at 02:20 ----------

Seriously ? So it's ok to kill a character now, as long as they are not gay ?
Doctor Who kills characters all the time, and no one cares (Daleks are really good at it). Kill one gay and suddenly its disproportionate. FFS. :rolleyes:

[.. and I guess all these twitter idiots have completely forgotten how the show made Captain Jack Immortal :dozey:]

Re: Doctor Who
 

Three examples off the top of my head, that I could remember without doing any looking up. Pretty sure I could find plenty more, especially from the Pertwee era which was famous for it. Incidentally, the Green Death dialogue is from the beginning of part one, not Jo’s exit scene - the environmental debate was part and parcel of the entire story, and did indeed play its part in her decision to leave.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Also it's not as if it's only Doctor Who which does this. I think people notice it more in the recent Doctor Who episodes but messages within storytelling have always existed. People use the art of a certain time as a way to explore the period.

I think it's easier to spot it in scientific fiction because the created world makes it's more obvious when the writer has made an intentional choice of what to include in it. If they've created a society which has a class system for example it's clear the writer did that intentionally rather than it being a mere accident of the location it's set. It also gives the writer more scope to explore whatever issue they want since they're less limited.

Re: Doctor Who
 

It is gender discrimination and a protected characteristic so if you are gay it means everyone can die as long as it is not you

Re: Doctor Who
 

It's all got too complicated, Daleks exterminating everyone I could understand. I sort of see where they were coming from now...

Re: Doctor Who
 

Re: Doctor Who
 

I was being sarcastic. It was the best thing I could come up with because I couldn't find all the posts to quote where Paul said "you moan a lot" and "if you don't like don't watch it" :)

Re: Doctor Who
 

Perhaps because they dont exist .... :erm:

.. and this weeks lesson was ?
(not that hard a question, they even gave the phone number out at the end, just in case you were not paying attention at all :rolleyes:)

Re: Doctor Who
 

At last, a decent episode, not trying to be Preachy or PC. :)

Still confused what the side story with the policeman is about, but even so, a good entertaining episode, lets hope the final one is as good.

Re: Doctor Who
 

That was proper edge of the seat stuff there.

I have a feeling that the Irish folk will be or something to do with the timeless children and they are either the origins of the Timelords, or at least where the Timelords, learned about regeneration from. The 4th and 10th doctors both joked about Gallifrey being in Ireland.

The Cybermen are finally scary again.

Re: Doctor Who
 

It hasn't been doing too well on the ratings front but I doubt it isn't going to stop them. The PC & inclusivity machine seem to be given carte blanche these days just so they can make a point.

https://deadline.com/2020/02/bbc-doc...ed-1202866816/

Re: Doctor Who
 

With the way British tv is now, ratings aren't really a good way of seeing how well a show is liked or watched. When you look at other statistics it's still doing great. On Sunday it had a 19% share of tv viewers and was the 8th was watch show on tv that day.

So while viewers have fallen it's still very popular. It's still getting ratings higher than some of Capsldi's tenure.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Not really, its average is much the same as Capaldis final season, and generally on a downward trend.
Its lost 50% of viewers since the first episode of Season 11, and around 25% just this season [since episode 1].

Re: Doctor Who
 

don't hold your breath, you are going to be tortured for many years to come

https://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/d...sci-fi-series/

Re: Doctor Who
 

Who saw that ending coming, the space police?

Re: Doctor Who
 

Feel free not to watch it..

Re: Doctor Who
 

I dont, i stay well away from it. I think it is an abomination to general tv viewing and an insult to scifi.

Re: Doctor Who
 

I don't think it's really ever appealed to sci fi purists. It's always had a much wider audience hence it's success. Not a fan of this latest incarnation, but the beauty of the programme is that it can 'regenerate' itself quite quickly.

Re: Doctor Who
 

It’s science fantasy, aimed at families and accessible to primary school age children. It has never been what the black tee shirt brigade frequently say they remember it to be. If you want technical manuals, stick to Star Trek.

I just got a chance to see the finale and loved it.

The show has been at best ambivalent towards Gallifrey since the 2005 revival. The way they have dealt with it is rather good, in every way as vast as what the team behind the New Adventures novels tried to do in the 1990s but in my view rather more faithful to the spirit of the show.

The NAs tried to make the Doctor more mysterious by hugely expanding the lore of Gallifrey in a way you couldn’t comprehend without thoroughly understanding a whole pile of backstory in addition to fresh snippets often buried within dense, not always well-written original novels, produced while the show was off the air with no obvious means of revival. The TV series has done it by offering an accessible summary of the lore of Gallifrey (without any of the loombollox), then sterilising it and leaving us with a deeper mystery. If the Doctor is the alien child whose genetic code gave the Time Lords the ability to regenerate, but was found abandoned at the mouth of a gateway to some unknown corner of the universe, who is the Doctor really? What is her home planet? What race is she?

Re: Doctor Who
 

...... Plus if she is the child whose existence enabled the Time Lord's ability to regenerate she will presumably be not affected by the restrictions built into the Time Lords DNA regarding the number of times they can regenerated. Or, at least, that was one of the issues that I thought had explained the Master's bitter hatred of the Dr.

Of course I could well be wrong.

Re: Doctor Who
 

It’s intriguing isn’t it. Would the Doctor actually have died at the end of The Time of the Doctor? Did the massive pulse of regeneration energy sent from Gallifrey really renew the Doctor’s life cycle, or simply kick-start a regeneration that would have happened anyway, had the doctor not been resisting his ‘death’?

I could be reading in a bit here, as I don’t know how intimately acquainted Chris Chibnall is with the deep continuity of the show, but his solution, especially with the snippets of buried memory in ‘Ireland’ also explains a couple of bits and pieces from the early days of the show (for example, Pat Troughton’s second doctor saying that barring accidents a Time Lord could live forever, and the appearance of faces earlier than William Hartnell in the Doctor’s mental regression battle In The Brain of Morbius - both of these can now plausibly be explained in-universe as similar buried memories briefly surfacing, rather than a production team making it up as they went along and only respecting continuity when they could remember what it was).

Re: Doctor Who
 

Yeah does kind of make your think Doctor Who? They lost a lot of the mystery in recent years.

Re: Doctor Who
 

The last script editor of the show’s classic era, Andrew Cartmel, had come to the same conclusion and had developed a multi-season story arc that was designed to reintroduce the mystery. It bore certain similarities with what they have now done - the Doctor was to be revealed as one of the founders of Time Lord society, and not on his first cycle of regenerations. They never got to implement it beyond a few lines of dialogue thrown in to McCoy’s second and third seasons, and in the end it was only finally revealed in the New Adventures novels, mostly in the final NA, a badly plotted, navel-gazing mess called Lungbarrow. I much prefer Chris Chibnall’s solution.

It’s kind of amusing though, on the dedicated Who forums there are people who still insist the Cartmel Master Plan is part of the show’s official canon because it was conceived and began during the classic tv run and concluded by writers who had been involved with the classic series. Until now it was just about possible to accommodate it into everything we’ve seen on tv in the classic and revival series, but last weekend explicitly trod on the same ground and there’s no longer room for both. There has been a bit of dummy-spitting. :D

Re: Doctor Who
 

Dr Who has made an emergency transmission to talk about the coronavirus:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/25/e...rnd/index.html

Re: Doctor Who
 

Get with it Richard, it's 'The Doctor', not 'Dr Who'. ;)

Re: Doctor Who
 

Hmm, ok.

So as specials go, this years wasnt bad, better than many.

(Seems like we get NY specials now, rather than christmas).

The 'special' announcement at the end was strange.

So John Bishop is going to star in the next series .... and ... ?

Interesting I guess, but whats the big deal with that ?

Does it mean he will be the 14th doctor ? Now that would be worth a 'special' announcement.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Maybe he will be Captain Jack's love interest?

Re: Doctor Who
 

I 5hinl Bishop will be a new companion. He was already spotted on set running from some Sontarans.

Re: Doctor Who
 

I don’t watch it anymore, I gave up midway through Capaldi. Although I did catch 10mins of it to see Captain Jack attacked by a face hugger Dalek, and I thought the design of the new Daleks wasn’t bad. But I kept surfing as I’m afraid it just doesn’t hold my attention anymore .

Re: Doctor Who
 

TBH, I think the fact it had less Jodie and more of the others improved it.

Its a real shame Bradley Walsh is leaving, we are left with a poor excuse of a doctor, and a weak companion.

I'll no doubt watch Season 13, just to see how it goes, but unlike years ago, I no longer look forward to the start of a new season, nor do I miss it.

Re: Doctor Who
 

I thought it was OK, nothing special though. I thought the prison section would of played more of a part of the story but it was just a means for her to be away from everyone.

Not sure if anyone else agrees but the directing did seem a bit crap?

Re: Doctor Who
 

I think the entire series is crap :D

Re: Doctor Who
 

Get woke, go broke.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Well I hope the rumours are true, and shes quitting. It will be good riddance.

Re: Doctor Who
 

It's fairly standard for a Doctor to go after 3 seasons. It's sometimes called 'Troughton's Law' as that's the advice he is reputed to have given Peter Davison, who had taken the role intending to go three years but when it came time to decide whether to commit to a regeneration story at the end of the upcoming season 21 he was losing his resolve to quit while he was riding high.

Re: Doctor Who
 

I'd rather Chris Chibnall quit. She may not be the best Doctor, but he's the one ruining the show.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Yeah, it's not her from what I can see.

I think the main reason it's struggling is that it's been going on too long now. It should take a longer break. The show seems plodding and monotonous as if they just need to crank out episodes by a deadline to a formula, a problem that hits most long-running shows. There doesn't seem any underlying passion and creativity for what they could do with the show.

Re: Doctor Who
 

I think cimt is partly right.
IMO, Chibnall has done a lot to ruin it, including the last Doctor appointment, which was done purely on a PC basis, not picking the best person for the job.

I laughed at the last report I read which stated "Doctor who fans will be devestated to hear Jodie is leaving".

I can assure that reporter I will not, nor will any of my family, who think shes rubbish as well (all of them are female btw).

Re: Doctor Who
 

This may come as a surprise coming from a white, working class , male.

But making the Master, and then the Doctor female, killed it. It was in decline anyway, but that really killed it. It was unnecessary and attacked the very essence of who the doctor was.

I am looking forward to the new Bond film with the same trepidation, they’re so intent on emasculating Bond they’re killing the reason he exists.

Re: Doctor Who
 

fret not, I have every confidence that when he is recast to make that he will be black (maybe asian or hispanic) and gay. If they want to go all out "it" will be non-binary.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Bond's masculinity is inherent to the character so they can't (or at least shouldn't) recast the character as a woman. I don't see the problem with him being recast as black at all though, there is nothing about the character that requires him to be white. It's more important he remains a British character than a white one.

Re: Doctor Who
 

I stopped watching after Matt Smith left. The series just lost it's sparkle.

Re: Doctor Who
 

We are 100% agreement

Re: Doctor Who
 

Apparently Ian Flemming drew a picture of Bond, in which he is clearly a white male.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_...rary_character)

Re: Doctor Who
 

But why stick to that? It's not a key character trait. If whiteness was an inherit part of his story or interaction with the world then maybe but Bond doesn't real with race. It's as relevant to the character as the colour of his hair or his accent.

Bond has changed actor and appearance several times over 50 years. I don't think changing race matters at all.

Re: Doctor Who
 

I am not a Bond fan but I believed it was widely accepted that 007 was an intelligence service designation and not unique to any one individual and explains why we have had many different actors over the years. Operatives come and come go and there will naturally be a next 007.

Re: Doctor Who
 

His name isn't 007 though...

Re: Doctor Who
 

Yes but they have all been James Bond until this next film which will have a totally new character who is a black woman taking over the mantle as 007.

Re: Doctor Who
 

I know, I was thinking about that :rolleyes:

Re: Doctor Who
 

I think either that rumour is off base or he rebecomes 007 by the end of the film though

Re: Doctor Who
 

No, I think the plan all along with Craig in the role has been to reboot and do a complete story arc. That’s why they fought so hard to get the rights to do Casino Royale, and to get back the rights to use SPECTRE. They’re not going to do a Roger Moore and keep pretending he’s not getting too old to be convincing in the role. I think this is Craig’s swan song and I think it’s also Bond’s final outing in this iteration of the franchise. When they re-cast Bond I think they’ll re-set again.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Because that's what the character of Jame Bond is.

Of course actor [and therefore appearance] has changed, changing the race of a character is something entirely different.
If the character was simply 007 rather than James Bond, that would be different, but its not.

Either way, its nothing more than speculation atm.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Errrrrr So is the next reincarnation of the Doctor going to be 007?

Should shake things up having a womanising, gun toting, licenced to kill guy in the Tardis. Maybe they will add a garage door to the rear of the tardis for his Aston Martin and his next companion could even be Q. :D

Re: Doctor Who
 

:D

Re: Doctor Who
 

I think you're probably right, and it is the right way to go about it. I think every Bond should exist in his own universe. That would also put an end to recurring actors playing the same roles with different bonds, such as Q, M, Moneypenny etc.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Yeah that's a good way to do it. It also allows for some overall story arc across the films. Each actor is a reboot.

Re: Doctor Who
 

All very interesting, but not related to Doctor Who, lets get back on topic.

Re: Doctor Who
 

It's a lot more interesting than Doctor Who that's for sure... :)

Re: Doctor Who
 

On The One Show on 18/1/21, Russell T Davies said that he had recently come across a story that he had written & submitted to the BBC in the mid eighties; he is going to bring them to life by the use of audio.

Whether this means to purchase or to be broadcast on the radio I don't know.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000rhlj

It was planned to feature Colin Baker and Bonnie Langford.

Re: Doctor Who
 

If it’s going to be done as an audio it will be produced and sold by Big Finish Productions, which has the exclusive rights to make new audio plays featuring the classic series characters.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Frontrunner to be the new Dr Who:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tv/15405348...box=1624742655

Re: Doctor Who
 

Am I allowed to say oh God no or is that not considered PC in 2021

Re: Doctor Who
 

I'm not sure if it means that he's someone who happens to be gay that's tipped to play the new Dr Who or if it means that the new Dr Who character will be gay.

I suppose whether your objection is PC or not depends on why you object. If you don't like Olly Alexander as a person, his acting or don't think the idea of a gay Dr would work I don't think that's politically incorrect.

If it's based simply on homophobia that would be, yes.

Re: Doctor Who
 

It honestly depends on why you say no.

Personally I will wait to see how the story lines pan out before I pass an opinion on how well I think Olly Alexander fits the bill. Especially as ...

Re: Doctor Who
 

No, he isn’t….

It’s just the Sun stirring up outrage, and the rest of the tabloids piling on…

https://metro.co.uk/2021/06/27/olly-...tion-14835501/ This all started in January, when Russell T Davies made a jokey comment about it…

https://www.gamesradar.com/uk/doctor...lly-alexander/

Re: Doctor Who
 

It's just rumours. They do this all the time. Last time they were 100% that it would be Kris Marshall. But we got Jodie.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Ahh OK. Is Jodie Whittaker definitely leaving?

Re: Doctor Who
 

No, that's also never been officially confirmed.

Re: Doctor Who
 

I have never heard of them, so cannot say how good they are.

Objecting to a non gay character being turned gay for the sake of PC is not homophobia.

The whole female doctor was just BBC PC, together with the stupid preachy stories they feed us now (dont be surprised if we get a full on BLM story in the next season) - but even so, it could have worked, if they had got a decent actress and proper stories. Jodies tenure has just been awful.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Olly Alexander is a singer turned actor, most famous for being in It's a Sin about how AIDS affected the gay community in the 1980's.

If the Dr can regenerate and change sex, I suppose the idea is that he can change sexuality too.

I must admit I stopped watching it after a couple of episodes as I didn't care for the Jodie Whittaker character.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Can I just say that a gay actor does not mean that the Doctor would therefor be gay. A gay actor can play straight parts. Same way that a straight actor can play a gay role

Re: Doctor Who
 

Very true.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Sounds to me like the series lost its way a long time ago, the legacy is tarnished and the character solely serves as a platform to push agendas and messages.

Re: Doctor Who
 

It was doing that back in the 70s.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Nonsense.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Many of Pertwees stories had a message about the environment or political message in them.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Only if you start looking hard enough to find what you want.
You could argue that the 'Green Death' was a little bit obvious.

The current programme is blatently in your face preaching, they dont even try to hide it, or make it subtle.

Not to mention of course the obvious pc choice of the doctor himself (oh, sorry, herself now).

We await the inevitable gay/trans black female doctor
In fact, they've already gone part of the way with that mystery black woman
Rewriting/retro fitting the whole Doctor/Timelord concept and back story to suit the latest agenda's.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Dr who peaked with David Tennant, Matt Smith wasn't too bad and it has gone downhill since and Jodie has been awful

Re: Doctor Who
 

Totally agree. I've stopped watching it now.

---------- Post added at 22:21 ---------- Previous post was at 22:06 ----------

Whilst I'm all for equality etc, the BBC is now trying to brainwash people. You're right, it isn't even subtle. They stick black issues/people into programmes for the sake of it, to a point where they are overrepresented.

It's counter productive to what they are trying to achieve.

It's not just Dr Who, Radio 4 is absolutely shocking now. Every genre of programming from plays to religious programmes, from comedy to history is all black, black, black. I'm sick of hearing about it now.

Yes, in the 70's they were underrepresented or always portrayed in a negative light, then things became more balanced, but it's absolutely ridiculous now.

I find the odd programme about it interesting, but not to this level

Would I like to see more disabled people on TV/radio, yes, but not being shoehorned into every damn programme for the sake of it until the point where people resent it.

As usual, it's probably not black people doing this and if you complain you're labelled 'racist' to shut you up because they know this will work with most folk these days.

I actually think that the next Dr will be a woman as to not do this would make them look like what they did was a mistake.

To me, the doctor will always be male, just like Father Christmas. Conversely, Mother Nature will never be male.

Re: Doctor Who
 

They said a while ago they wanted the next regeneration to ge a total surprise. Only to be revealed on screen at the time. Almost impossible to pull off these days, but it would be good. Maybe Olly is a 'stalking horse'.... Maybe several different regenerations filmed would be the way to do it ?

I'd like Stephen Mangan to give it a go.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Doctor Who has been political ever since I started watching at the time of the reboot. Matt Smith had such episodes, David Tennant did as well.

Science-fiction is often quite political.

Re: Doctor Who
 

It has, but it was much more subtle and not non stop.

I remember watching one from the 70's tho a bit back where Pertwees assistant was acting the sweet, unintelligent woman who was asking his permission to do something trivial. Reminded me of Corrie when Deadrie asked her husband Ray if she could have a chequebook after they were married. He said "we'll see" :D

Re: Doctor Who
 

It might be more obvious now which is probably down to them covering newer, different, issues as society changes and the writing not being as good. I think a lot of British television writing fails the 'show, don't tell' rule of storytelling in that they don't trust the audience to pick up on the subtext of their work and instead mainline to you via excessive exposition.

Whereas a (good) American drama might naturally hope you pick up a theme through the actions of the characters and the beats of a story a British one will pause everything so that one of the characters can tell you the theme in a little speech. I am not a writer but my theory for this is a lot of British writers come from theatre and don't fully appreciate all the additional devices film gives them over the theatre.

Doctor Who probably has an additional disadvantage here in that whilst other science fiction settings force the writers to tackle an issue via allegory they can just jump to a real-world example where the audience already brings their own knowledge/opinions/preconceptions to it. So if Star Trek wanted to do an episode on Slavery they would use a fictional example and can change that as they see fit, the audience would be new to it. Doctor Who would just go back to the American Civil War to have a chinwag with Lincoln and fight off against Confedrate Daleks.

Re: Doctor Who
 

Yes, Alien Nation is a prime example of this.

Re: Doctor Who
 

A blind lad is raising money to help other blind fans of the show:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/metro.c...-14848133/amp/