Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

This is all going to get ugly soon the recriminations will start on all sides and complicate matters further then they already are. As for the chaos that was polling stations ours were ok but having spoken to a friend in leicester he has also said there was complere disorganisation at his and he said others had said the same so what the hell is going on this shouldn't be happening in the UK in this day and age.

Personally i think we will all be back at the polling stations sooner rather then later because i don't think there is anyone that is going to hand over completely what the lib dems want unless GB caves completely to cling to power.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

The fact that some man*, who has no connection with the British electorate, who has never even asked them if they want him in the house of Lords, could get to decide who runs the country.....and they talk about electoral reform.




(*Baron Mandelson of Foy);)

The Mirror's estimate was, at best, there would be 21 Old Etonians out of the 300+ MPs - how by any stretch of imagination is that a party made up of Old Etonians?

In that case, the Labour Party is a party made up of Union Reps........

You really are Baron Mandelson of Foy's (ooh, a Baron - isn't that a bit "elitist"?) voice on CF, aren't you - spinning and twisting in the wind.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

You really are shockingly uneducated.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Well Plaid Cymru, who Labour would probably need for a coalition as Lib Dems alone won't be enough, have a fairly simple demand - 300mln more for Wales. Northern Irish parties also want public sector spending protected and Labour will need their support too as the Lib Dems and PC wouldn't be enough.

Am I the only one who would find it distasteful if Labour were so desperate to stay in power they'd basically bribe regional parties with money they don't have in the current economy?

It's bad enough that the current constituencies are inaccurate, especially in Scotland which has a hugely disproportionate number of seats relative to its' population, to the point where if Labour and the Tories' share of the vote had been reversed Labour would have a comfortably majority and indeed the Tories had a better result than Labour did last time around.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Actually speaking - only 154 members have viewed this thread. The view count tallies every time it is viewed by anyone, guests and members. ;)

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Despite having many times said he'd do the right thing and listen to/reflect the wishes of the people you can bet Brown is going to hang onto power by his fingertips for as long as he can. One thing that's clear from this election is that the people don't want Brown but so arrogant is this man that there's precious little chance of him listening to that sentiment.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

The system certainly needs changing. STV is the fairest way to do it. I voted LibDem, but the system, as we all know, discriminates against them.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

I was about to post that coming from his speech.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Well there you go, first shot goes to the Lib Dems and Tories to try and come and together.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Only because more people prefer the other parties.
In at least 54 constituencies they've won with FPTP.
All they have to do is increase their popularity in other areas above the other parties and they'll win the seats.
It's not the FPTP fault they aren't good enough to do that.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

This has got to be the most hilarious excuse for losing a vote, ever:

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

But you have to admit that even if the LibDems won every single seat they stood for, they still wouldn't win the election as a whole. How is that fair?

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

At least the Labour party want to have the opportunity to change that.

Most of whom will be in the cabinet. There is not one party who have so many originating from the same school as the Tories. Twenty-one is a huge number in comparison.

At least they are more likely to more representative of the voting public than bunch of chinless wonders. ;)

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Sorry, I only got 2 hours sleep last night, can you explain that to me?

Does the libdem constitution prevent them standing in more than 325 constituencies?

---------- Post added at 14:16 ---------- Previous post was at 14:11 ----------

Last time I checked, Eton was considered a rather good place to be educated ("lernin" to you).
Ergo, Etonians generally are at the high end of the academic scale.

You appear to be under the misconception that having intelligent, qualified people running the country is a bad thing.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

No, of course not. But FPTP is not proportional to the voting percentage. Single Transferable Vote is favoured by the Electoral Reform Society.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

So you admit that FPTP isn't actually hindering the LibDems, they're hindering themselves.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Toffs in government will look after toffs first, them the small 'uneducated' man last.

By uneducatated I mean those who never attended "Oxford, Cambridge, Eaton etc"

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

No, It is hindering them because, under the current system, even if they get more votes than Labour or Conservative, they still get less seats in the House of Commons.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Well I'm the voting public and I'm certainly not represented by union bigots. I'm also not a chinless wonder and was brought up in a working class family in Liverpool in the 70's and 80's.

You seem to be under the incorrect impression that all tory supporters and party members went to public school, live in stately homes and talk like Boris Johnson.

Sorry to explode your myth. Also growing up in Liverpool during the riots, living on the breadline during the Thatcher era doesn't mean that I should be pre-disposed to to vote Labour.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

The gap between the rich 'toffs' at the top and the poor at the bottom has got worse under New Labour so they haven't done much to improve the lot of those for whom you speak at the expense of the privileged few have they.. :confused:

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/ar...0&in_page_id=2

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Really? I don't remember having to pay £3000 a year to go to university last time the Tories were in.

Fewer actually.
As I said, all they have to do is be more popular in more constituencies.
What would you say to adjusting the borders so each constituency had the same population?


In local council news, the uBNP have lost 3 council seats.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

And then so many Merseysiders disagree, eh.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Plenty of toffs and wannabe toffs in the outgoing Labour government.

I consider myself very well educated and I never went to any of those schools.

Do you consider yourself uneducated?

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Guess it's time to look at how the Conservative government will effect me.

Ah well get your coat Gordon your times come.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

........and that's being very polite... :mad:

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Loving the attempts at class warfare from the usual suspects in this thread :)

---------- Post added at 14:55 ---------- Previous post was at 14:51 ----------

Such fantastic stereotypes. Must be a lot of toffs in the UK given the amount of votes that the Tories received.

---------- Post added at 14:56 ---------- Previous post was at 14:55 ----------

Putting an extra million people on the public payroll, lying profusely about being able to guarantee things regardless of the state of the economy and being a party traditionally associated with generous welfare, etc, tends to win votes in less affluent areas, especially those that suffered under Thatcher's programmes.

See my previous comments regarding vomit coloured turds with red rosettes.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Memories run deep, but those of us that are enlightened can see what happend back then for what it was.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

I voted Labour as I don't have what's classed as the normal trapping of Mr Avg eg, car, mortgage, kids, business, highly paid etc etc. I can say I'm better off now than I was 5-6 years ago so why should I rock the boat so to speak.

I haven't spoken much in these political threads as my ignorance would shine through quite clearly. And from what I've seen, there's too much 'superiority' over those that don't take that amount of interest in politics. It sounds like anyone with a difference of opinion (eg non Tory) gets slated and ridiculed here.

There's nothing wrong with being ignorant when it comes to politics, as those that know it all basically means they are just that bit too boring for my own liking.

From what I can gather, the Tory's thought they'd win clearly, and they haven't. Labour did well considering, they ain't out yet which means something I suppose. Lib Dems, well, I'd have thought they'd have done a bit better. Apart from that, I don't care enough from here on in as I've done my bit and there's nothing else I can do.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

That would be a good idea.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

does this mean david cameron is the new pm?

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

It's a tory idea.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

No.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...010/05/166.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk is your friend.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

No, Brown would have to resign, and Cameron would have to win a vote of confidence in the commons (ie have the Queen's speach passed by the house)

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

No GB is still PM for the time being.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

It's as if the last thirteen years didn't happen - jam tomorrow, eh?:rolleyes:
Oh, look - you're moving the goalposts; it's gone from a party made up of Old Etonians to a Cabinet. Why change the story - inconvenient facts get in the way of smears?
Erm, no - union membership amongst the working population fell to 28.4% Link Nice attempt at class warfare, though, Baron M.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Under the current system it requires less than 37% of the vote for Labour to get a clear majority. Over 40% is required for a clear Conservative majority. With something like 50% or more for a Lib Dem working majority. Hardly a fair or equitable system.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

What proportion of the population went to public school?

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

The Tory "offer" was a joke! They did not promise a single thing, a inquiry into reform? We have had that already. Cameron seems to think that the sole purpose of the Lib Dems is too prop his party up. That's not what I voted for. The Tories have not got a majority, they need to conceed something.

I hope the Lib Dems reject him and force them to govern as a minority governent. Real half-arsed display of leadership there, he clearly doesn't have enough authority in his party to offer anything

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

If you make huge assumptions about the voting for the other parties.
If what people say about FPTP was actually true, landslides like in 97 wouldn't be possible, but they are.

It's why the predictions based on poll swings (not the exit polls) were wrong, you cannot apply a national % swing because it is not the nation voting as a whole, but 650 individual elections.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Exactly. It's a ridiculous system.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

You seem to expect them to concede everything though and it doesn't work like that. Even if the Lib Dems join Labour they still don't have a majority and it would I suspect be extremely harmful to the Lib Dems to be seen to prop up Gordon Brown. Their position is not as strong as you seem to think it is.

At least it was genuine as opposed to Labour's newly discovered interest in electoral reform. Labour are quite simply desperate to stay in power.

The Lib Dems (unofficially) seem to disagree with you, a source describing it as interesting and worth considering, not to mention that Cameron has never ruled out a PR referendum and the devil is in the detail and the negotiation. To give the Lib Dems everything straight away would be bad negotiation and the kind of desperation that Labour are reeking of right now.

It seemed to me to be a measured opening gambit in a weekend of negotiation, nothing more.

http://order-order.com/2010/05/07/th...tion-part-iii/ is interesting and a very nice thought actually, if it can take the best bits out of both parties :)

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

How predictable we all are certain partys didn't win therefore it's "blame the system" rather then accept your party whichever one didn't do enough to win torys made the biggest mistake here this election was there for the taking but i wasn't convinced enough by their campaign i thought it was a little too positive and needed a little more of the passion of attack.

But on the plus side as i voted tory i am now a toff :p: despite the fact i live in a housing association owned house am on state benefits didn't go to private school damn i did well out of this election. As for the nauseating horse trading that is to come i can see this going either way for the lib dems they may get some of what they want though no where near all or anywhere near all of it or the public may view them as blackmailing the country while they attempt to get what they want risky game methinks for mr clegg.

Personally i would just prefer to go back to the polls for a run off but won't happen so guess were all going to have to get used to huge amounts of insincere liking between people idealogically opposed while they try and come up with something to keep\gain power not very gratifying to see for any of us.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Err..No I don't. It's clear I don't. I expect them to concede something. Most people expect the Tories to maintain control over the Economy, Defense, Health, Education, Europe and so on. The Tories are offering nothing and around 23% of us voted Liberal Democrats, not Tory, Lib Dem. There is no right for the Tories to demand a collation because they have got the most seats, they need to offer something that those 23% voted. Such as electoral reform.

Otherwise there is no incentive for the Liberal Democrats to partner with the Tories. If they get nothing then why vote with the Tories. They are under no obligation too.

Easy to be be geniune when your offering nothing.

Cameron isn't giving anything because the party aren't completely behind him after he failed to secure a majority. Already the mere mention of an inquiry to reform, something Labour did a decade ago, has created hassle.

I hope your right.

---------- Post added at 16:04 ---------- Previous post was at 16:02 ----------

We have been blaming the system long before this result, many of us voted Lib Dem to reform the system. The Liberal Democrats actually got a large share of the vote than last time, they have less seats. The system is rubbish.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

No, the libdem candidates in the other areas are rubbish, otherwise they'd have gotten more votes.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

I wasn't aware that everyone voted for the candiate rather than the party. It's quite clear what I am talking about anyway.

Liberal Democrates. 23% = 57 seats
Labour 29% = 258 seats.

That is not a fair system. At all.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

They're offering openness and discussion, the actual substance of the offer will be discussed behind closed doors, and no doubt be negotiated on.

I did see some offers there - mention of changes in taxation to follow the Lib Dem's ideas more closely, changing priorities in some policy areas to more closely match those of the Lib Dems, it certainly wasn't 'nothing' and what wasn't said is every bit as informative as what was said.

Fear not, it was a negotiating position not the final offer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereport..._a_sterli.html

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

They did get more votes than last time - just not in the right areas.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Labour 29% spread across more constituencies = 258 seats
LibDems 23% spread across fewer constituencies = 57 seats.

Seems easy to understand to me.
If the LibDems were better at it they'd get more votes across the nation.
Interesting how despite the landslide against them in 97, the Tories didn't whinge about the voting system.
To quote Russ, the LDs need to "man up" and do better with the voting public.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Fair enough. I am quite angry at the moment so sorry if that's coming though in my posts.

They said they would make it higher priority but I guess they need to add some detail to that.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

If electoral reform was the massive issue many would like us to believe rather then a topic to get excited about when it comes time to negotiate a coalition why didn't more people vote for the lib dems and labour the two partys that made a big point of it. Fact is at a time like this when this country has so many other real problems to deal with and get sorted out electoral reform is an indulgence that we simply cannot afford. Sure those who are passionate about it will claim it is a big issue but the rest of the public i think are more bothered by the other multiple more pressing issues and want them dealt with for all our futures.

Also havn't labour done a lot of tinkering with boudaries and stuff that has made it very hard for anyone to unseat them hence this election in the last thirteen years might be wrong but i am sure i have heard on the tele someone saying they had set things up to benefit them more then any other party.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

The Lib Dem support is scattered across the nation isn't it? That's the problem, where as Labour have strongholds in urban areas and the Tories in rural area, the Lib Dem support is spread thingly over a whole bunch of places never reaching enough to overcome the incumbent party. Which is why they need a very high swing to every get near government.

Anyway I am not saying it wasn't "easy to understand", I am saying that only 7% more people voted Labour yet the seat distribution is unevenly favors them.

It may be fine if you voted for the winner, but it's pretty demoralizing if your voted for the Liberal Democrats and your vote just never bloody matters.-

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

My biggest concern about all of this is, after hearing Alex Salmond talking about the 'mighty hand' he and PC have been dealt, is that if Tories and Lib Dems can't come to some kind of arrangement Labour will happily sell a large part of England down the river in order to remain in power and keep the public money flowing to their heartlands.

The idea, given cuts are inevitable, of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland either seeing no spending cuts or even spending increases while England picks up the tab is totally distasteful but is certainly something that I wouldn't put past Labour at all.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

News just in from Sky:

William Hague has told Sky News that Nick Clegg and David Cameron have spoken on the phone... last half hour.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Trust it to be from SKY ( Daves buddy ) ?

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Surely it's voter distribution which favors the two main parties.
Hmm, didn't someone recently say they lost out because more voters from a different party turned out, now, who was that?

Personally, I'd prefer the Tory idea of equal population constituencies and keep FPTP.
Why should people be forced to vote for candidates they don't want?

Incidently, for the prior 3 elections, the Tories haven't won, yet I, and them, are not calling for PR.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

It's not about winning the election, it's about having a majority and total control with 38% of the vote. The Tories do form governments so your views do eventually get represented, you may well have a Tory government soon.

Changing the voting system would mean that more of the electorate gets represented.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

A news outlet reporting the news, a politician discussing events with the news channel he is talking to at the time. This is most unusual, new and interesting.

Didn't realise Tories weren't allowed to talk to Sky News.

John Major has been happily talking with the BBC if it helps with balance, he just wasn't privvy to the above information so couldn't discuss it at the time.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

What proportion of the population are Union Reps or Political Assistants? ;)

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Did not mean that , as i am watching the BBC and they say that they have not talked yet so it seems that it is like inside info ?

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

The Liberals have formed governments too, and they can again if they work harder. FPTP does not prevent that.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

I never said it did. It's apparently on record that she did not like Thatcher. All I said is that I have read rumours that the Queen is actually a Labour supporter. Remember class and upbringing does not necessarily control a person's political belief. I was bought up as a Conservative. I am not. Why? Because I saw what they did, and didn't like it.

Maybe the Queen has done the same?

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

FPTP actually favours Labour first & Tory second. There are insufficient LibDem/Tory or LibDem/Labour marginals at the present time to gain enough seats to form the government. What this election has shown is that BOTH Labour & Tory no longer have things their own way on the government see-saw.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

My only major concern over PR is that I kinda like being able to vote for my MP rather than having to vote purely on national issues. Having an MP assigned to my constituency based on other people's votes isn't a great thought.

They have to be careful. I would be more interested in balancing the constituencies properly for now, along with some other reforms to make things somewhat fairer overall.

Going pure PR doesn't appeal though. A hybrid FPTP / PR would be ideal though I've no idea how that'd work :D

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Think how those of us feel in safe seats who haven't voted for the sitting MP ever.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Imagine if you were forced to either not vote or vote for a candidate you neither knew, wanted, or supported.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Everyone in a consitutency can't get their own way.

If it meant that much to you to have a Lib Dem MP you could always move to a Lib Dem area.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

That's democracy for you I'm afraid. You can't expect to get your way if the majority in whatever area is covered by the election disagree. In every election some of those who vote will be disappointed.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Under PR there can be options for voting for specific people. Candidates for a party are generally ranked on the ballot paper, and candidates are assigned to parliament according to that order. Voters can however vote for a specific person and if this person gets enough votes they can leapfrog candidates that are ahead of them in the queue. Thus, number 15 on the list could get into parliament at the expense of #10 for a party that wins 10 seats.

Also, under PR you tend to have more parties, thus further increasing the choice.

---------- Post added at 17:45 ---------- Previous post was at 17:42 ----------

Not if you have a coalition. The combined parties can have 60% of the vote, which means that only 40% of those who voted did not vote for one of the parties in government. Under FPTP that number can be higher than 60.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

The current system effectively disenfranchises a huge number of voters who live in "safe" seats of whichever party. Only those in marginal seats actually have a vote truly worth casting. This is what is wrong with the current system. The FPTP creates "safe" seats which can lead to complacent MP's who just ride the gravy train knowing as long as they don't stick their noses over the parapet they have a job for life.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Since all you need a plurality you can actually have much higher numbers of disappointed people. A lot of seats do not return MPs who have 50.1% of the vote or more.

Such a system is actually what is proposed by the Liberal Democrats, you vote for your MP and list the candidates in order, if no one gets above 50% the candidate with the fewest votes has their voters choices moved onto their 2nd choice until a candidate does have 50%.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Fixed it for you.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

I thought of that and duly amended things - however you can't have a coalition in a single seat. I'm talking locally now not nationally.

I don't find the idea of losing some of the locality of the FPTP system good. While on one side one could say that the Lib Dems would receive far more seats the fact would be that a majority of the people in a majority of those seats did not vote for the MP they will receive as a result of PR. Great for the Lib Dems nationally, not so great locally especially in areas where strongly Tory or Labour seats find themselves with a Lib Dem MP who may not represent their views locally.

It's swings and roundabouts, it's all well and good jumping up and down saying that the Lib Dems didn't get as many MPs as their share of the vote suggests but there is a local flip side of denying the majority, potentially vast majority of people in some ridings the representative they voted for.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

What if your 2nd choice is the same as your 1st?

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

:clap:

The current would have worked when their was a greater focus on your MP rather than the party. Now a lot of people, most people, do vote for parties and their policies and as a result the safe seat issue is a problem. When your Tory MP get's twice as many votes as any other candidate then honestly why vote?

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

And given that the Labour Government got in last time with less than 40% of the vote. That is 60%+ that did not vote for them.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

How adult and constructive :rolleyes:

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Fixed that for you too.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Well you list them numerically, you can't have that. You maintain the right not to choose a 2nd and if your candidate is eliminated then you haven't chosen a 2nd (because you hate them all for example) then you don't vote for anyone else.

---------- Post added at 17:53 ---------- Previous post was at 17:51 ----------

You don't lose the locality, the main suggestion put forward by the Lib dems does not remove your local MP. Only changes how they are elected, to remove safe seats.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

So you're forced to either not vote or vote for someone you don't want.
And you say this is an improvement?

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

How can I keep my MP when the decision whether they are elected or not doesn't belong to this constituency alone?

We could vote Lib Dem and end up with a BNP MP - you want to tell a constituency that they just inherited the first BNP MP?

I suspect you'd need to replace constituencies with administrative areas similar to County / Borough Council boundaries. Don't think PR of any kind is really compatible with current constituencies.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Exit Poll

Conservatives 305
Labour 255
Liberal Democrats 61
Others 29

649/650 seats (Thirsk & Malton delayed due to death)

Conservatives 306
Labour 258
Liberal Democrats 57
Others 28

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Hang on, I think I've got it, there might be more Lib Dem MPs and that's why it's so good, right?
The odd uBNP MP here and there is a price worth paying to give a minority party more of a say.
Or at least that seems to be the logic behind it (well ok, a more accurate one would be "Waaaaaaaaah! I wanna run the country but people don't like me enough. It's not fair, I'm going to stamp my feet and cry")

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

I agree about it being good to have a link to local areas, but frankly that is just about the only thing that FPTP has going for it, and as pointed out, that has its drawbacks as well. As you said a hybrid system would be good, but I'm not sure if such a system exists.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

No you can select runners up. Let's take the French Presidential Elections, they must get 50% because they don't think a President can claim a mandate without 50% of the vote. If 50% fails to materialist they have a run off where the person with the lowest share of the vote is eliminated (it might actually be all candidates below a certain %, I forget) and people vote again.

This system does that but all in one go. You don't have to provide runners up, you can just vote for one person and decide you don't want your vote to go to anyone else in the event your candidate doesn't get in.

The effect is that over 50% of the population should be slightly happier with their MP, even if it wasn't their first choice. So that 35% of the area hasn't chosen the mp for the entire 100% of the constituency for example.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

In a "democracy" this is the price you might have to pay. Better everyone has a fair vote and you get the odd aberration, than continuing with a few dictating to the many.

With some form of PR chances are there would be more than 1 Conservative MP in Scotland.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Look if your going to patronise people then why bother asking? The topic is emotive enough without provoking people which such misrepresentation's of their argument. I haven't accused those against of trying to protect a system so that a minority of people (say, 38%) can impose a government on the rest of us because that's not what your advocating.

It's not good because their are more Lib Dem MP's, it's good because the make up of Parliament is more representative of the electorate. I have shown the disparity between the popular vote and the make-up of Parliament and at the last election Labour wielded a large majority, a lot of power, with a 38% mandate. A lot of people find that a joke. I understand the worry that without any one party having a large majority they may form a weak government beset by arguing and indecision but a look across the world with the numerical countries with collation governments shows they do ok (Germany as an example).

So be it. If it's representative of the population.

I am not asking for 23% to run the country, I am asking for them to be represented rather than winner takes all)

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

It would appear that even with FPTP we will have a situation of the many getting their voice heard, it may not be in the way you want but it's what's happening.

Sadly we can't all have our vote count for something regardless of the system used. I can imagine your frustration not voting Tory and being in a very strong Tory seat but that's how it's turned out.

It could be a very, very interesting bit of progress with what the Tories and Lib Dems come up with if they do go down this route though. I agree the current system doesn't work, but it may have by accident gotten something right this time around, albeit in a round about way :)

---------- Post added at 18:10 ---------- Previous post was at 18:09 ----------

Per my previous comment it'll be interesting to see what Tories / Lib Dems come up with. It does have serious potential for a Liberal Conservative moment which would suit me rather well.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

No. Other constituencies don't change your vote. The PR system is implemented in how you vote for your MP. That's the system I am talking about anyway, there are others. Such as the one used in Scotland (i think) which has the current system and then top-up lists to redress an unbalances in the popular vote.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Example.
Favourite party has 2 candidates. One is good, one is not worth voting for in your opinion.
So the choice is, either vote for the one you don't want, or don't vote for a second choice and don't get the candidate you do want elected.
That is not an improvement.
We need the best people in the commons, not the most representative of the diversity of the nation.
For instance, would you really say that a Monster Raving Loony or CURE MP would be of benefit to the running of the nation?

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

I can't see the Tories conceding too much on electoral reform. They'd be shooting themselves in the foot. Labour and Lib Dem combined get more than 50% of the vote, so PR would likely lock the Tories out for quite some time. The Tory offer would more likely be to reduce the number of constituencies somewhat and gerrymander a bit.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

The Lib Dems may be open to playing a longer game. As I mentioned previously it would be potentially far more damaging to them to prop up a Labour government especially given the concessions SNP/PC/ NI parties want in return for their required support to that coalition.

I suspect they'll suck it up, get as much as they can out of it, and run with it for a while in the hope of establishing something of a record and improving their standing in a future election.

If the Lib Dems just stamp their feet and demand PR it is potentially harmful to them if there's another election in the near future as it opens up a huge angle of attack - the Tories can say that they were ready to co-operate for the good of the country but Lib Dem's 'selfish' demands for electoral reform delayed progress and pushed the country back to the polls.

The aims can stay but a healthy dose of pragmatism, especially in the context of previous comments from Nick Clegg and his reputation as an 'honourable politician'. The electorate seems to respond well to the parties working together.

I've seen some comments from a Labour MP in Glasgow South regarding the disdain for the idea of Nick Clegg dictating to the Labour party that Gordon Brown has to go - for my money though that's exactly what would have to happen. For the Lib Dems to support Gordon Brown would be political suicide, to support Labour and several others without Brown is merely rather distasteful.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

You might need to clear the example up because it's confused me but it's the same system as we have now. Only if one person doesn't get 50% then those voters who did not get their candidate in the led can transfer their vote, if they wish, to another candidate they like. If they like the monster raving loony party then there we go. Oh wait,think I semi-got the example. Why would the party put two candidates up?

By the way the current system doesn't elect the best people, it's elects the party who is most popular but disproportionately represents to the popular vote because of the nature of winner takes all in each seat. If it were about the person then we would see far more independents in the house of commons.

---------- Post added at 18:25 ---------- Previous post was at 18:20 ----------

Here is the Wiki article on STV: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_vote

There are others forms as as AV+.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Find out how much your vote is really worth here: http://www.voterpower.org.uk/. If you're unlucky enough not to live in a marginal you may be surprised.

In the 2005 election more than half of all voters voted against their winning MP.

The reason people favour FPTP system is that it ensures the powerful stay in power.

What we can say is that the 2010 election will be the last of the FPTP system and I for one am thankful for that.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

i'd like to ask how many people decided not to vote conservative after the lies labour told about losing the tax credits system, i've spokern to loads of people in my area and they quite a few said they didn't vote conservative due to the tax credits (being cut :()
of course it wasn't true unless you earn't 45k or above, but that didn't stop labour spouting rubbish and frightening the public

just interested to see how much this affected different areas

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

It's a difficult one to call. I agree that Clegg should insist on Brown going, but the argument for that has been weakened since Labour did not come third in the popular vote. (Clegg didn't outright say Brown had to go, he said he couldn't see Brown staying on if Labour came third). The choice for the Lib Dems (from my perspective) is electoral reform with continued stalinism, or limited political reform and greater civil liberties. Not a choice I'd like to make...

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

Politicians. Lies? Now there's a thought.

And for the record, I didn't vote Conservative because I'm old enough to remember Thatcher and just in case by some strange anomaly that isn't enough, the Tories will only ever put the needs of the privileged first.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

[rant]
Why oh why are people moaning about not having enough time to vote.

It 15 hours for godsake, its never been a problem before (that I know of), and if your too lazy or stupid to get there on time, perhaps you shouldn't have a vote in the first place.
[/rant]

I'm sorry but I don't mean to offend, but only a small number have a genuine problem with these hours, and thats why there is a postal vote.

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

i agree ,that was the thing that struck me yesterday ,how come some many people turned out just before the polls closed ?

Re: 2010 General Election: The Cable Forum Exit Poll
 

FYI: