Re: This one's going down
 

• So we can tell that the vehicle approaching is a Police car as it is marked, rather impossible if at night and they are speeding.

Where about was this stolen vehicle at this moment in time.
He did wrong, he killed, he tried to get out of it by saying that he was not in control of his vehicle, he was found guilty, he was jailed, he did not get a home visit, so get over it.

We have people saying that it is terrible that this man could not go home during his jail sentence to see his family, they can at least see him in jail regardless of how not nice for the kids it may be, tough on them he did the crime at least serve the time.

The nearest Hayley's mother can get close to her child at Christmas is by going to her graveside.

He is far luckier in that he will have many Christmas's with his family, so what if he has to see them in jail, at least he can see them.

The has only ever been one victim here and that is the person that was killed by his dangerous driving.

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ok i think it's time we introduced a few facts into this discussion instead of some of the drivel i have been reading from some members

1) police drivers ARE required to use lights and/or siren when engaged in PURSUITS unless "there are special circumstances ".A pursuit is deemed to have started when the target vehicle has "taken off and refused to stop" .Police driver training states that use of lights and sirens is NOT recommended until the police car is in close proximity for tactical reasons i.e in case the target vehicle speeds off ,or verification of the vehicle is needed but is left to the driver to assess the situation
In this case there was NOT a pursuit

2) pc Dougal was responding to a ANPR ping for a passing vehicle that was reported stolen by a previous owner and not updated on the police database .Pc Dougal had been briefed on a stolen car in the scotswood/denton burn area that was being used in robberies at the start of his shift
with this information in mind is it surprising that he did not want to alert the driver of his presence until he could confirm if this was the car he had been briefed about which he could not do until he had caught up with it?

3)Pc Dougal could not inform his command of his intentions because all the communication channels available to Northumbria police were busy ,this has also been confirmed by the second officer involved in the incident and a reccomendation made by the ipcc to look into the matter

4)It has been stated that Hayley was drunk. I said this at the start of the thread (other people have inferred it) but was slapped down as there not being any evidence, well there was ,she was twice the limit .The reason i mention this is to clarify how she came to be crossing the road .Reading the statement of pc Dougal it is quite clear that she saw the police car approach and decided to run across the road in front of the car instead of returning to the path ,this is also backed up with the video .The same group of children Hayleywas with were "honked at" by the renault megan as it passed them because they were too close to the road

5)The first words spoken by pc Dougal after the incident were, according to witnesses, "I'm not denying it, it was my fault" .According to his own statement and that of other witnesses he has never denied it was his fault .Some members have suggested he tried to lie his way out of it ,I would suggest that you stop reading emotive articles from the tabloids or a one sided view from the family they are obviously biased .Some of the witnesses (children Hayley was out with at the time) suggested the two police cars were "playing racies" up the street ,this was based on the fact that the street was quiet and there were no other cars ,these are the sort of people the press interviewed .It has been confirmed by the ipcc using all the data including the gps tracker on both police cars that they were NOT "playing racies"up the street

All of this information has been taken from the ipcc's own findings in there final report on the incident which can be read in full here and i suggest a few do
http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/adamson_redacted_19june-2.pdf

It must be mentioned that in my opinion the rules of conduct regarding police chases allowes too much for the driver to assess ,i do believe that some decision has to be made by the driver but it does tend to put all the onus on the driver and not with the force in general when things go wrong ,i feel that the rules for chasing other cars is far to open to interpretation ..usually when the driver is under pressure and is required to make split second decisions
It must also be pointed out that the Police federation has been campaigning and is on record as saying that all cars fitted with APNR systems should be dual manned

This post is in no way intended to support any guilt or innocence ,that has already been decided,and i have made my views well known in this thread , it is purely to correct some common misconceptions about the case and to provide some insight into the thinking behind pc Dougals' actions

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Well I love the way the use of the words can be altered to fit a certain group.

AskOxford and Pursuit simply means the act of pursuing so you expand the search for a verb and it says

so was this police officer following in order to catch this car or not? if the answer is yes then irrelevant of what the old bill say he was in a pursuit

Obviously of course your over sanctimonious attack by saying anyone who does not agree with your point of view as drivel is not agreed with in the courts of this land so I simply say Pah to you

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that is the police definition ..if you bothered to read
and if a few facts upset any body ..TOUGH

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You aint likely to upset me matey ;)

sorry I use English not Police English ;)

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It all comes down to the not using the blue lights and siren for why he got locked up.

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that seems to be the case ,the trouble is there are 2 conflicting methods that the officers are trained to use which i feel can be an issue as this case proves ,maybe it should be updated to mean lights and sirens at all times?not just for emergency calls or high speed pursuits

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Reading the facts you linked to has done nothing bar given me the chills when it comes to the Northumbrian Police force and how they sent to coppers out in vehicles that should have been manned by 2 officers. If they were not equiped to enter into a "pursuit" then the individual officers should not have even attempted to aprehend this vehicle

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I personally think the blue lights at the least should be used when driving well over the speed limit. there shouldn't be no stealth mode at high speeds.

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Easy enough to say zing but when you are the bloke at the bottom of the pile it's a bit difficult to stand up to those at the top.Remember the police are not allowed to strike and this leaves very little leverage when it comes to working conditions and demanding that certain conditions are met.:erm:

Re: This one's going down
 

So Hayley was drunk and she made the error of crossing the road to talk to friends and was halfway across when a speeding car hit her killing her instantaneously.

Also that report states that the was no reason for his blues and two's to be off as the was no pursuit to be alerted and he was just pursuing a vehicle for reasons unknown and said vehicle was doing less than 30MPH..

The was actually a group of friends and a 2nd speeding Police car so the could potentially have been a massacre if everyone had decided to cross the road.

Quite an interesting read and the question of drink is only at the start and the rest is focused on the officer not doing his job correctly, nice find.

Just a thought as it says restricted all over that document are you allowed to post it in a public forum for everyone to see considering the amount of detail in the PDF.

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well if he used common sense realised he was not in a position to enter a "pursuit" even if he caught up with the car then the girl would be alive today

One point I raise about what is in the report

He says he approached a hill and saw people there at the top. Now a reasonable man may consider that there could be people the other side of the hill also and slow down a little just in case however he went flying over the hill with noway of seeing what was on the other side at at least 87 mph. This basically meant he had no chance of stopping no matter what was on the other side of this hill. The report also states if he had been traveling at 30 mph he would have been able to stop

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I asked with it being restricted and I posted the link with the highlighted section.

That report does put the blame nice and squarely on his shoulders though.

No reasons not to use his lights and sirens.

No reasons to speed.

Actually he may well have rammed the Megane if he had not hit Hayley as they were so close to the incident.

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in reference to your above post zing i feel i must in fairness say that knowing the area well as i do there are always young kids and teenagers roaming the streets untill the early hours (usually upto no good)and in the report on the officers admision he knows the area well so one would assume he knows this ,i was surprised when watching the video how few kids there were on that road

---------- Post added at 21:04 ---------- Previous post was at 21:00 ----------


that is the finding of the report ,and the trial i can't argue that point ,i still feel though that pc Dougal wasn't soley to blame i still feel that the force should shoulder some blame in respect of training and protocol

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It was a good job that her friends did not attempt to cross with her to talk to her friend or the may well have been more than one death.

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http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north...2703-25529164/

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What do they care? he's not a police officer anymore.

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I'd have thought it obvious that any organisation made up of coppers would be interested in how coppers and ex-coppers are treated, should they find themselves in prison. :confused:

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God help the one who reversed the decision, and let's hope his papers are in order :)

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Hope he does go down I'm sure he'll get a warm welcome in prison haha

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Don't you just love people who read threads properly. :rolleyes: