Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Portuguese law says that you can't leave young children unattended.

Copied a post from elsewhere.
[copied]
Some of the scenarios given here about about when or where we leave our children are just daft. Leaving your child in another room whilst the family sleep or in some other part of the house/garden while you do something else is very, very different to leaving them entirely alone whilst you go out to dinner in a different building, out of eye/ear shot and for half an hour at a time. In addition, these weren't young children or teenagers who may have been able to fend for themselves should something go wrong, they were near enough babies. If we're saying it's okay to leave children in circumstances similiar to this story then the world really has gone mad![/copied]


LINK

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

That is, of course, assuming she screamed.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Actually it's got nothing to do with the abduction, it was in response to people's suggestion that if you're 100 yards away you can't possible ever in a million years know that your child is calling for you :rolleyes:

That nothing was heard, and their window was opened with a crow bar suggests that the parents being in the next room wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

That leaves quite a large grey area doesn't it!...and how short is "short", how regular is "regular"?
Why do the checks have to be regular anyway? Surely it doesn't matter whether the checks are regular or irregular. It's the frequency of the checks that are important i.e how often the checks are made.
btw...it has now been reported that the patio doors were left unlocked.
The demands of life? I suppose in general this is true, but does it apply in this case?

Also from that link:-

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Oh dear:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/6720661.stm

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

............... and the media are largely to blame for this parental paranoia.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

by 2007 they all wanna play on a console

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

The abduction will be featured on tonight's Crimewatch. It will be interesting to see the sequence of events.

After watching the BBC interview, I also watched the ITV & Sky interviews. Once again the McCann's did not say that they checked every 30 minutes. They again used the meaningless word "regularly". Strangely, Kate McCann says, in the Sky interview, that she can't go into any more detail. She doesn't say why.

.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Sounds interesting and I'll try to catch it when it's on.

I'm sure that anyone would bend the truth a little in those circumstances, I think they would say 30 mins to start with, but I wouldn't be surprised ( at all) if it was once in 4 hours to be honest. Could it be they've got found out and don't want to own up?

Think of the differnces IF they did say we just leave them there all night, we ain't that far away so is that bad?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Agree about the timing question - this aspect has seemed rather fuzzy since day one. It's the sort of thing many people would say initially in the circumstances but I really wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that whatever checks were made were far less frequent.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

That actually worries me. We are breeding children that may well have trouble coping with problems in the future.

I can only speak from experience, but there seems to be a general sort of paranoia around, that is largely created by the media. My cousin, for instance, is convinced that she needs to take her children everywhere (even to school and back) in her 4x4, and if she or her children ever come to London, she will be blown up by any of the hundreds of Muslim terrorists we apparently have here. This is despite the fact that I can count the number of bombings that have occured in London in the last 30 years on my fingers.

Note, I am not saying that we don't have Paedophiles in this country (or terrorists, be they muslim or something else), it's just that I don't think it's as widespread as the media makes out.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

and this is on topic how? Just because people are being paranoid means we should all change and leave 3 children under 4 on their own without proper supervision while we go out and have dinner???

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

20 or 30 years ago, many parents thought nothing of leaving their children sleeping at home, while they went for a dinner party around a neighbour's house, without worrying about checking on them at all.
It's interesting how times have changed, especially when those children who were left and unharmed by such, now are too paranoid to even let their children cross the road before they've hit puberty.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I also remember stories of children left alone burning to death in a fire. Maybe no more are carried off now but the risks are still the same

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I also remember stories about children burning to death in fires at home while their parents were also in the house.

I also know kids who aren't allowed to cook for themselves, cross the road, go outside to play, and they are very sorry children indeed, unable to think for themselves, unable to use their imagination, interested in only sitting infront of the TV or computer, over weight, unable to cope with new situations, heck one of them still wet the bed until he was 14!

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

well nothing that has been said in this thread has made me even consider changing my view. The part on crimewatch said nothing basically. No one yet has displayed anything to make me even flicker on my stance so Im not gonna shift. Im sure you feel the same so its an impasse

Im still talking about leaving 3 children under 4 on their own without proper supervision, not about children wrapped in cotton wool

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I agree with a lot of what you are saying about older children, but I don't see how it is relevant in this case. Perhaps many parents who wouldn't dream of leaving 2 and 3 year olds unattended for X amount of time, would give them the freedom you talk about when they are a few years older. I think there are 2 different issues here.

---------- Post added at 22:28 ---------- Previous post was at 22:26 ----------

I blinked & missed it!

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Today on the radio, it was mentioned that some bloke in spain had information about the whereabouts of the little girl.:)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

so unless this went public after the law had given them the knock then they will be on their toes now. Maybe thats what the law have done thought they may make a move and give themselves away . But I just hope some good comes from it

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I cant see why this is publicised before investigations

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

The more I read about this, & the more press conferences & interviews the McCann’s give, the more uneasy I feel towards them. Sorry to harp on about this, but 2 more interviews & 2 more “we checked them regularly� statements. Actually in the German news conference, Kate McCann says “we checked them very, very regularly�, as if emphasizing it makes a difference!

What I find more concerning is that they said that they could see their apartment from the Tapas bar. This has now shown to be impossible. Their apartment was outside the holiday complex in a public road. There is a high concrete wall surrounding the complex. The McCann’s apartment was on the ground floor, obscured by the wall and high bushes. To get to their apartment, they would have to leave the complex & walk down 2 public roads.

So they left their children alone, in a ground floor apartment they could not see, with the french windows unlocked, in a street accessible to any member of the general public. Even worse, the rear of the apartment backed onto a car park. Quick & easy getaway?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I hate to trivialise a life here but basically, if you dont watch yer stuff, some f**ker will nick it.
Car
keys
bike
CHILDREN.

they didnt keep watch.
they only have themselves to blame and personally i'd like to see them charged wth negligence.

kids are full time.
if you want time off, you get a babysitter and DO NOT leave it to chance while you have some 'us time'.

I wonder what the public reaction would be if the couple were dodgy scallies from a council estate...

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Yep.

Would they have left a suitcase with 10 grand inside, lying on a bed in an unlocked apartment? I don't think so.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

You can't argue with that.

When the German reporter spoke up last week, I for one said well someone has to say it/mention it, yet the media called it a disgrace. It's clearly biased towards the subject.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

yeah you're right it was harsh, but there are questions that need to be said rather than pussy-footing around them.

How many time has their been press conferences where the parents/members of the family plead for info only to be found out later they are the ones that are the guilty party.

They said they didn't have anything to do with the abduction and they had something like a party of 10 people at that meal to prove their innocence. I can agree with them that they didn't take maddie themselves, but no one yet can rule out that they don't play any part of her abduction.

Maybe they were harsh for a reason, to see their reaction etc, (which there was a lack of (yet again) even I must admit but again, proves nothing).

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Yep you know there a common occurrence when you see comedy sketches about those dodgy press conferences

Seems to me she asked those questions for the benefit of her own career rather than to help the police, I am sure they are more than capable of asking challenging questions without the help of a ghoulish hack

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Possibly, thats of course is of your own opinion, I can't say you're wrong as much as you can say I'm wrong either. At the moment it is foolish to rule out anything.

I can agree with the 'hack' making a name for herself, but who know's she might also be right, and if she is then how she will be praised later instead of being a ghoul that you think she is now.

Maybe you think it can't be them because they are fine upstanding citizens with high social standings etc, so does that mean they are automatically ruled out of any 'suspicion'.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Seeing this hasn't quite made the headlines in major news sources can we assume it's a complete fabrication?

Nice one Daily Star :rolleyes:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I never thought about it in those terms, but I think you are spot on. I doubt if they would have left 10K cash and say their passports whilst going out to dinner. I think such 'valuable' items would have been put in the complex safe, or they would have carried it on their person. Shame they didn't feel their kids were important enough to warrant supervision.

Im sorry for their loss, but parents like that make me sick.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

This website has photo's taken around the area:-

http://gazetadigitalarquivo.blogspot.com/search?q=

It clearly shows how detached the apartments are from the Ocean Club, and the wall between them. Also the front windows of the apartment are recessed in a porch.

If you scroll down you can see an aerial photo. This marks the tapas restaurant and the back bedroom where the children were sleeping.

Someone on another forum used Google Earth to measure the direct distance. It came out to 70.5 metres (around 230 feet). He also estimated the walking distance to be between 120 to 130 metres (about 395 to 428 feet).

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

And they were quoted as saying "its no different to eating dinner in your garden while your kids slept upstairs...." (OR SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR)

Well unless you live in a mansion in acres of ground I'd say its nothing like eating dinner in your garden!

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Agreed.

There are many things that the McCann's have said that are a bit strange. I would feel more compasion for them if they were honest, and said that with hindsight they were wrong to leave them alone, and that they were sorry for what they had done. But instead they harp on about what good parents they are, and that "at worst, we were naive".


.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

She'll always be a ghoul imo regardless of whether she is proved right, she used that little girls plight to suit her own agenda, that sucks

Personally I'd rather leave the acusing finger of suspicion pointing to the police when it's something as serious as this

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Im sorry but imo she had the balls to ask something that im sure a lot of journos have thought. I dont trust the parents. There have been plenty of cases where children are abused by parents etc. Im not saying this is the case but maddies parents have been jetting off all around the world keeping this in the news im sure spending thousands of pounds of the cash raised (like whats the pope gonna do ffs). Ive never seen anything like it the media frenzy is just ridiculous. Also I dont see the twins with them while they are jetting off all over the place I for one wouldn't want to away from them under these circumstances. I hope and pray maddy is safe and well but ive seriously lost any Patience ive had (which isnt much) with the parents

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Does it take balls to ask a question like that? There have been plenty of cases where the parents have done it, the police don't think this is one of them, better to leave the investigation to them surely and it isn't only the parents that will have been upset by this 'woman', what about the rest of her family?

One thing that does occur to me is if something was lost in translation, imo that is the only reason it can be justifyed

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

what was actually asked? I was told it was something like " are you involved in this " I do not knwo the facts but I have felt very suspect of them maybe not thinkign they are involved but the whole thing stinks to me.

How many times have people made appeals and used the media to try and cover their tracks? im not saying this is the case but it happens.
In my home town a bank manager killed his wife and said it was someone trying to rob the bank and went into quite an elaborate story etc went on tv loads and all the rest but it was him all along. I know this is unrelated.

Thing is if I was babylon I would say my main suspects were not suspects to allow them to feel safe while they can incriminate themselves so I wouldnt listen to what the law say to closely

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I agree with you about the press conferences and the police giving them enough rope

“How do you feel about the fact that more and more people seem to be pointing the finger at you, saying the way you behave is not the way people would normally behave when their child is abducted?” The reporter went on: “They seem to imply you might have had something to do with it.”

Seems to me though, that there was no need to ask them this question, what was expected by asking it? Confessions? Or giving her own career a leg up?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I think that question is balanced and fine

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Sabine agrees with you


Afterwards Sabine Mueller, 35, who has worked for German Radio for 14 years, was unrepentant.
"I know it has been seen as a hard question but I do not think it was improper," she said. "I did not want to hurt these people, I don't suspect the McCanns of being involved

In which case, why ask the question then, what did you hope to achieve?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

it gave them a chance to answer the question to those who have been thinking it?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Judging by their response, I am not sure if they thought anyone was thinking it

Looking horrified, Mrs McCann responded: "I don't actually think that is the case, I think that is a very small minority of people that are criticising us.

Actually quite a few people are criticising you two, perhaps with good reason, thats a question for their consciences imo, seems unlikely to me though that the reporter was trying to prepare them for a public backlash

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

dont understand this bit. Who said that? the reporter?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Me, I said that bit ;)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

ok what does this bit mean? is the two correct or do you mean to ie people are critising me?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

People are criticising them, they think it's a few people, I would say it's considerably more people than that, after all their actions that night did nothing to hinder their daughters abductor

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I agree :)

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

My first thought about asking this question (as peanutkp pointed out also) was to see how the McCann's reacted.

It gave psychologists the chance to guage their reactions, both verbally and through their body language to a blunt question.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

So you think she asked these question's to provide some sort of service? Perhaps she should have mentioned that, then people wouldn't think ill of her

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I think she asked the question purely to see their reaction. They were obviously going to deny it (they weren't going to say "yes" were they), so I can see no other reason for asking it.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

that makes sense and it's what journalism is about - getting a reaction as well as an answer.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

And isn't that the problem - the reporter was trying to create news, not just report it.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

The letter strongly resembles another received by the De Telegraaf paper last year, accurately pinpointing where two missing Belgian girls were buried.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6749131.stm

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

:(

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I was reading that article in the BBC and it says that a paedophile is on remand for the murder of the 2 girls (Abdullah Ait Oud). I assume the Belgian police thing Oud killed the 2 girls and subsequently wrote the letter? If so then this is either a copy cat, or could be that the Belgian police have got the wrong man.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

its possible that this paedo is/was working with other paedo's as they sometimes do.:disturbd:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

There are no depths some people won't sink to, it seems :(

He added that he could not confirm reports that the arrests were in connection with an attempt to extort money from the McCanns

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6251266.stm

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

How did the miss this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...e_id=1811&ct=5

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Is it still considered unacceptably colonial and arrogant to doubt the abilities of Johnny Foreigner when it comes to this sort of thing?

I am assuming that someone in the Government must think so at the very least, or else why are Leicestershire's finest boys in blue crawling all over Praia Da Luz like a rash? They clearly think they have the techniques and the resources to find something that the Portuguese police can't, even on their home turf.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Well it could be anyones blood. Perhaps some guy smacked his misses the week before or another chap punched someone in the gob and caused it

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I bet the Mail would have had something to say if Brazilian "CSI" had come to London to investigate after Jean Charles de Menezes was shot dead at Stockwell Tube station.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Are they suggesting that Maddy might have died in an accident and the McCann's came back and cleaned/covered up?

Am I reading the article right?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

There is blood on the wall that was cleaned up. Could have happened months before the McCann's arrived. Like Mr Zinglebarb said.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Correct, what is worrying is it took thirteen weeks for them to locate it ! Also the forensic investigation conducted by the Portugese authorities has been at best laxidasical.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Well, they might have seen old blood stains when they first entered the room (hours after the disappearance), and dismissed them as not useful to the investigation. It is a bit unfair to criticise people based on reports in the newspapers.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

In a forensic investigation of a crime scene NOTHING is dismissed.

The Portugese equivalents of our SOCO (or CSI's as they are now known thanks to the program :) ) On noticing should have immedialtely sampled and also done whats known as a blood pattern analysis. Only with these results should they dismiss.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I think the Portuguese police are being criticised unfairly, and as TheNorm says, unfair to criticise them based on reports in the press.

The danger is that they, the Portuguese, might get a bit peeved off and it could influence the manner in which they continue conducting the investigation.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

That would be the manner where British crime scene examiners were called over to assist with the forensic investigation (weeks ago) because the Portugese police were having difficulties ?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

.

It's unlikely they'd have noticed with the naked eye.
Is this type of investigation routine for what appears to be an abduction? If not, it does seem the Portuguese Police are criticised harshly.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I don't doubt it! But it does help illustrate my point - we don't consider it out of order to send our own police to investigate. Does that mean we think we're better than them?

If they did dismiss them, then that adds some justification to those who think they aren't up to it, and gives me comfort that British police are involved. It would be gross incompetence to dismiss anything at a crime scene on first appearances. Only after rigorous forensic testing is complete can anything be dismissed.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

A forensic investigation does not just cover whats visible to the naked eye.

It's the time that it has taken for them to get to where they are that concerns me.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

What is starting to concern me is that the Portuguese police *haven't* got the investigation to where it now is. The blood stains were discovered by Leicestershire police. You have to wonder whether, without British involvement, they would ever have been found.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Agreed entirely, their initial external investigation of the surrounding garden area in the original 'suspects' mothers house had to be all redone. Again this was done by British officers

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

That's how I read it.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

And didnt that result in the same conclusion as the Portuguese search, i.e nothing new was found?

As I understand the Portuguese have invited police from the UK to review their investigation, most probably to see where they could have done things different. Its a shame that they weren't working together much earlier though.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

At work there has been quite a lot of dicussion regarding the whole investigation and the behaviour of the parents. The majority think the parents are potentially involved in this some way or the other.

Was interesting to see when they actually held a press conference for the sole purpose of being able to forensically analyze the parents behaviour.

---------- Post added at 10:58 ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 ----------


It does not matter wether something was found or not, what matters is that it should have been done properly the first time around !

---------- Post added at 10:59 ---------- Previous post was at 10:58 ----------

Link please ?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

No matter how hard I try, I can't come up with a convincing motive for the McCanns to have done such a thing. It just doesn't add up.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

That's from the daily mail article, so I'd take it with a rather large quantity of salt.

Let's not forget this is a holiday resort. I suspect the chances of finding minute blood specks on the wall of any room in a holiday resort are fairly large.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

It's rare but it's not unknown unfortunately.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Unless there was an accident of some kind.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

So I gather there is no direct quote from any investigating officer then ? (Which of course there would not be in the first place)

---------- Post added at 11:03 ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 ----------

Absoloutely true, which makes it all the more imperitive that it's decided to be vital to the investigation or not.

---------- Post added at 11:04 ---------- Previous post was at 11:03 ----------

Which if so, why would they hide the body ? An accident is an accident

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Tbh it was bad enough having to give succour to those that did come over, at least when he was shot it was a genuine tragic mistake, how many hundreds of thousands of kids did Brazillian police get away with murdering for decades, their only crime was to be poor and homeless, perhaps we should have asked them how those investigations were going before accepting their help :mad:

---------- Post added at 11:06 ---------- Previous post was at 11:05 ----------

It's from the article I posted earlier :confused:

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Absolutely, I'm not saying 'parents never murder their kids' - just that in this case, I can't see any circumstances under which it would make sense. They're in a foreign country, in a busy holiday centre ... the very last place an intelligent adult would choose to do away with someone.

What reason could they have for covering up an accident and disposing of the body? This isn't a daytime soap opera.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Sorry missed that bit

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Possible charges of child neglect?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

It wasn't done properly first time round according to the UK police and press?

Same UK police who throughout the years have cocked up investigations too. The press want a story and to point blame, some pointed it at the parents in the early stages, and now that its not flavour of the month to criticise them, let's start criticisng the Portuguese police.

Like an earlier poster said, if the Brazilian police started critcising the manner in which the police were tailing Mendez, let alone his shooting, then we would be making alsorts of excuses as to how they were doing their job properly.

Mistakes happen, and more importantly what is deemed right by some maybe viewed differently by others.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Possible charges of child neglect?[/QUOTE]

It's a reasonable assumption I suppose seems a very dire choice to make though

---------- Post added at 11:10 ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 ----------

The Portugese police have been out of their depth on this one since day one.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Bit like the Bob Woolmer investigation, Chris you were right Johnny Foreigner can't be trusted :D

---------- Post added at 11:14 ---------- Previous post was at 11:13 ----------

Nope me neither

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Interestingly, the BBC only reports that the investigation had 'at least one British sniffer dog' present. They also mention 'suspected blood'.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6934322.stm

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Can you imagine the media reaction if MAddie had died in an accident whilst left alone in the apartment as the parents did so. The police would definately have arrested them then (its a criminal offence to leave kids unattended like that in Portugal according to friends and family I know who live there).

Maybe the McGanns came back, so she was dead, weighed up some options regarding outcomes of reporting it as opposed to dumping the body and claiming they are victims of child abduction. They would have something genuine to feel guilty about then.

Yep, it does sound like a daty time soap, but its totally feasible. I've never felt 100% about the copuple and it wouldnt suprise me if that happened.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

I heard on BBC radio that the sniffer dog was trained to find blood traces, it was a Yorkshire terrier and the reporter knew it was English because some one spoke Portugese to it and it 'looked confused', God no one ever accuse Auntie of dumbing down

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

The fact that you can describe a scenario does not make it likely, or even 'totally feasible' or even possibly feasible for that matter.

Trying to dispose of a body in a foreign country is a massively tall order for anyone, as would be the task of forensically cleaning the scene of death. I believe the McCanns are intelligent enough to know this and not to try - even if the child did die in an accident the parents would know they didn't have the expertise to hide it and too much to lose on discovery of the body (a guaranteed murder conviction and the loss of their remaining children).

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Again, It has happened before.

There is no reason to suggest that it could not happen again in this scenario. What percentage of people would have the ability to hide/dump a cadaver ?

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

And then orchestrate what can only be described as a media circus to get their girl back? I'm not saying it didn't happen, but it seems very unlikely (and stupid if it were true) to me.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

It has taken 3 months to find the blood.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

What better way to divert attention ??

unlikely perhaps, but not impossible EDIT: In fact im pretty sure it has been done in the recent past

---------- Post added at 11:40 ---------- Previous post was at 11:39 ----------


some blood, not yet confirmed as to whose it is or if it holds any relevant information to the ongoing investigation

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

The fact that something has happened before does not make it any more likely that it has happened here. Each individual case has to stand on its own evidence.

It is a fact of human nature that we as a species are capable of hurting and destroying our own children. There is no news there. What we have to do is look at the circumstances here and ask how likely is it that this has happened.

When child murder occurs in the UK the body - or bodies - are usually found, and found within a reasonabley sort space of time. They are not well disposed of because the vast majority of people are not professional killers with an understanding of how to defeat police search techniques.

The challenge of disposing of a body in wholly unfamiliar territory is all the greater - enough to dissuade all but the most determined from trying and to make it less likely that a body could remain concealed for long.

What is lacking in all these 'The family did it' conspiracy theories is a convincing motive. 'covering up a tragic accident' does not stack up as a motive as the family do not have the skill to cover it up and they have far too much to lose.

Re: Toddler 'abducted' during holiday
 

Actually Chris a sceanario like that is totally feasible. Yes its difficult to dispose of a body in a foreign country, but isnt this what is now said to have happened anyway. That is she could have died at the scene and someone's disposed of her body.

You are giving insights into what you think the Mcganns are capable/not capable off, what if they thought that they had enough expertise to clean the scene properly (being from medical backgrounds might have helped).

Unfortunately parents do kill children (im not saying its happened here) and as much as we dont like to see it happen its a fact that it does happen.

My sceanario is totally feasible. You are right, intelligent people should know that they are likely to get caught by covering up a death, but its been done before, and not all criminals are stupid.