Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well, there's 14 at the moment, but i still don't see what that proves.

OF COURSE there are going to be a vocal few.

Most people won't notice the cap. They use the connection for browsing, a bit of online gaming, and downloading the odd MP3 here and there. 30GB a month is too much for them. 1Mbit/month is too much for them, but the price is right, they get stuff done when they need it without too much of a wait, and everything is fine.

There are those who know about the capping, but don't care. They'll rattle the connection as they did before, and deal with NTL when they start sending letters. Why would they bother posting here?

There are those who know, but intend to switch ISPs, so again, why would they bother posting here?

There are those, however, who don't want to, or can't switch ISPs. 30GB/month for a price ADSL ISPs offer unlimited (>300GB/month, potentially, and trust me, I've approached that on my 1Mbit DSL line) connections for. I appreciate there are different costs involved in providing a DSL service and a Cable service, but really, is a cable connection ten times as expensive to supply as a DSL one? Bearing in mind that a DSL ISP pays BT wholesale a tenner a month, or thereabouts, that leaves about a tenner a month to pay for transfer, admin costs, etc. As i say, i don't know the costs involved in supplying cable internet, but i can't believe it's as much as, or more than, DSL. Either way, look at the comparison in packages between NTL and Telewest. Doesn't add up, does it?

Perhaps if NTL had a more secure network which didn't allow active theft-of-service (passive just doesn't MAKE them money, whereas active LOSES them money) like modem cloning, then we'd be better off, but i can't help but think NTL customers are being ripped off.

I, personally, will be opting for the business package, but what about residential customers? Why should they pay more or less the same as a business, but get a far worse service, both in terms of allowed usage, and telephone support? I called both business and residential customer services yesterday with some queries, and while business support were able to answer my question after a 30 second wait on hold, residential had me on hold for over 5 minutes, then said nobody there could answer and that they'd call me back. 24 hours have passed since. No ringback. I don't envisage myself needing customer services/tech support all that often (never needed it 2 years ago when i was last with NTL, used it once with my last DSL ISP), but it's good to know the option's there. By my calculations, business customers will be allowed to do over 400GB a month on the 3mbit package. That's 370GB more for 3 quid a month, and a 90 quid setup fee, assuming with the speed doubling the prices will stay the same. How can that be just?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Don't forget the 2 year contract.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

ok, so the 90 bucks is spread over 2 years, not one.

Really though, i'm hoping that my business lasts more than 2 years, so it doesn't bother me. If a 2 year contract is the only minus point over the residential package, then it ain't all that bad, is it? My point still stands, residential customers are getting a worse deal, and surely business users don't generally go for the TV package? I'll be working from home, so i'll probably opt for a basic package, but in general, there can't be many businesses who've opted for the tv package, and i'd imagine that that's where NTL really make their money.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

But surely you are going about this the wrong way??

You are griping at the way ntl have done/are doing things, yet you are rewarding them with a further 2 years of your custom....:confused:

The only way companies begin to understand their failings is when people vote with their wallets & go to (in this case) ADSL/BT/Sky etc etc.

I certainly wouldn't put money in ntl's pocket if I was in your situation, I would take the easy route of finding a nice reliable/uncapped ADSL provider, with an equally nice 1 month contract, & give them my money.

Hang on.....that's exactly what I did do....

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

My main gripe with a 2 year contract is with this ADSL2+ coming any month now, chances are it will cost the same as ADSL and be a hell of a lot faster. 3mbit for £35 suddenly won't sound so appealing, especially as it will, probably, still have a usage cap. OK NTL may upgrade the speeds further to compete, but there's certainly no guarantee of that. It's certainly not a matter of whether or not your 'business' will last 2 years.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Why's it my 'business' hans? Why the need for apostrophes?

My point, neil, is that they're screwing residential customers. I'll be a business customer, and at the moment the deal they're doing is as good as i'll get in my location. I can't be sure that ADSL2+ will be rolled out to my exchange in the next 2 years. I'll probably end up getting a cheap as hell DSL connection as well, for backup/halo 2, but for the moment, the NTL business package is as good as i'll get. I was more than happy with the service before, and i have no reason to believe it will be any worse, it's just the cap that would hurt me, and if i opt for a business package that point is negated.

I bet, though, that NTL will see a hell of a lot more "business" (see, hans?) customers popping up once people realise the difference.

Anyway,you can cancel your NTL account within the contract time if you're moving to an area without cable.

If ADSL2+ is to be the same price as ADSL, and faster, and STILL uncapped, then NTL will lose a fair whack of customers, it's true, but i need a connection now, and the business package is a good deal in comparison with DSL. Just wish i'd chosen the property nearer the city, i'd have been able to get 8mbit from ukonline now, but the rent was another 12%, which at the moment ain't affordable. 3.5mbit will do us for now :D

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Heh. I've not been posting for the longest time but all this disinformation being smeared around about only 5 or 10 customers being unhappy about usage restrictions needs to be countered.

The Petition Against Capping gathered over 10,000 signatures. Oh wait perhaps the same 5 people just signed it 2000 times each. I dont think so.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Is ntl going to be made aware of it?

I'm guessing that the potential loss 0.6% of customers (thats if every single one left, which most likely in reality nowhere near a majority of those who signed would) compared to the saved money / loss of heavy users, would not be such a great loss as you think?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Think comments like:

You what?

LMAO 10GB a day are you kidding me?!

Ummmm.

Umm so they are a competitor how?

A day?!?

Sick b***ard :(

Quite agree, you should be able to download at full pelt all the time, of course what you pay covers it.

Rrright.

Heh, oops, 15GB/month on 512k and 30 on 1Mbit on BTB with metering over the excess isn't it? :)

*sigh*

Who the **** started that ridiculous rumour?

Obvious find me a 10,000 signature petition, without repetition, that isn't signed by morons then I'll be more interested.

Heavy users leaving = more for the rest = better performance and more $$$ for ntl. It's coming whatever, why keep discussing it? I only did this post because that petition's comments are so :LOL:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

there are indeed some wierd people out there.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

We do 10GB on a busy day, with an average of about 6GB a day. Our DSL ISP has never complained. NTL never complained when we had usage patterns like that 18 months ago, when we were last with them. What's so ridiculous about having a fast connection, and using it?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

On my heaviest days i could do 5 gig a day and have done granted it is not a constant thing probably 3 or 4 times through the month, On a 3mb connection 5 gig a day isnt that unreasonable IMO. I have never had a leter or anything from NTL even when i was hitting 20 gb a week, didnt seem to cause them too many problems

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Ignition:

You're having a laugh, right? Ad hominem arguments like yours + taking 11 single comments out of the whole lot doesn't even come close.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

In between people accusing ntl of supporting and funding terrorism, people thinking it's a per month limit, commenting on BT whose regime is similar or worse, etc.

I suppose the real test is how many of them left ntl, as well as how many of the 'Anticap' executive left ntl as they felt strong enough about the issues to start a website? You still have ntl HSI, as does th'eng, nice example.

Exchange name: Neath
ADSL enable date: 31 Mar 2001

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

It's funny. You seem to be confusing Anti'Cap' with Anti'ntl' . I'm the first but not the second.

There's no point at all in running for cover of another ISP if you're against capping. That's exactly what ntl would want and is ultimately unproductive.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

You got a few idiots in the anti-fox hunting protests. You got a few idiots in the anti-war protests. Neither nullified the cause.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

There is if that ISP offers an upcapped service.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

If people just move to another ISP then what happens if that ISP starts capping? I was talking about the analogy of running for cover under a different tree when it's raining. It's no good as you could still end up getting wet. Stopping the rain is the only solution (and that's where the analogy falls down I hope) and people are only going to do that by voicing their concerns - now - before it's too late and we're all paying by the byte for our data access needs.

It's the pay-per-byte model that needs to be discouraged as it would just be an excuse for ISPs to increase overall charges. Do you think they'd give a discount to low-data-volume users? It wont happen. If the worst happens then there will be a minimum monthly 'standing charge' + usage charges on top. Low users would still have to pay the 'standing charge' even if they only send one email a month while high-data-volume users will pay through the nose at rates over and above anything remotely reasonable.

Bandwidth costs continue to fall. The upcoming speed increases are testament to this. Arguing for capping is a case of 'The Emperor's New Clothes' or 'The Straw Man'.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

whats to kid about 10GB a day is hardly anything 1GB is stupid amount how ntl think 1GB a day is enough is laughable :rolleyes:

What about the mobile phone model ?
 

Ok, well I'm generally relaxed about the proposed caps, for reasons mentioned earlier. But many people are up in arms about them. So how can NTL - or any other ISP for that matter, square the circle?

Well, I was thinking about how mobile phone companies do it. They manage to get along with a huge variety of customers, varying from ones who rarely if ever use their phones, to those who have them welded to their ears.

When I got my first brick-sized mobile, back in about 96 or so, it was with one2one (now T-Mobile for you youngsters), and they had free unlimited weekend calls to other one2one users. It didn't last long though - people were buying 2 one2one phones and using them as permanently connected baby monitors!

So now, you sign up to one of several options, either pay as you go where you pay nothing per month but pay for each call, or contract where you buy x minutes free per month. And the more you pay, the more free minutes you get.

And to me it seems like mobile operators and ISPs are in similar positions; they both only have x amount of bandwidth; and both need pricing plans to suit differing usage.

So if we look at how that might work for BB, I can foresee ISPs eventually following something similar. Just using notional figures, you could have:

1 Mbs
pay as you go: £5 per Gig downloaded
5 Gigs per month: £15, with further Gigs £1.50 each
30 Gigs per month: £25, with further Gigs £1 each
etc etc

2 Mbs
As above but price = x1.5

5 Mbs
As 1 Mbs but price = x3.5

etc etc etc

And who knows, maybe one day I'd be able to port my email address pleasedontsendmeanyspam@ntlworld.com to wanadoo .....

Any views ??

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Thing is with BT there is a big choice of isp's BT is essentially a wholesale provider, BT Yahoo broadband isnt a representation of ADSL so stop using it please.

Neil I agree with you in theory if unhappy just leave NTL but the problem is NTL have a monopoly in some areas where there is no ADSL and so its a choice of NTL or AOL or dialup.

My last point for the day yes the comparision between business/residental is a joke, the business lite package been closely priced yet the difference in quality of service is huge, what does this say? it says they value their business customers (understandable) but they think residental customers are disposable. Seems to me residental customers are much more profitable then their business customers who are on business lite. But it dont matter so much now I found a alternative and will probably sign up to business lite when they try to impose the cap on me.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

because on average most users don't exceed 1GB per day. so why is that laughable if it fits most customers usage profile?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I just wouldn't give my money to a company with an business approach of "like it or lump it, we'll decide what packages that you the customer wants, & that's the end of it"

That's what really irks me with ntl, it's their completely arrogant attitude (always been the same)

ntl should (IMO) offer a variety of packages to entice customers in. Different customers have different needs, & the analogy above of the mobile phone tariffs is an excellent one as it shows the ever changing & varying needs of todays consumers.

How many of the mobile phone companies would still be in business today if they hadn't adapted to suit their customer's needs.....?

ntl are not interested in customer's needs (never have been in my experience), & the arrogance of these tariffs supports that.

let me remind you of something ntl-unhappy customers will leave to find a product that will suit them.

The rest of the industry is changing & adapting to meet it's customer's needs (it's called choice), yet as usual Hussain et all are too busy counting the zeros on their payslips to notice or even care.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

and you might not remember this but in the small print there was an acceptable use policy/limit despite it being advertised as 'unlimited'!


yes, there should be options available for people who want to consume high volumes.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Yes, but your point taken in, they still are the biggest isp in the uk, so they must be doing something right..

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0...tid=215&tid=99

Read the comments, very interesting:

The British way seems to be to get dragged, kicking and screaming into the modern world. The EU is a good example. In five years time, people will have fast and unlimited connections and companies like NTL will be forced to offer them. Sadly, very few British companies have the vision to look forward to the future.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

That's a poor reason, they have a monopoly in some areas (as people clearly can't get Telewest)

Going by your reasoning, Sky must be doing something even better than ntl, as they have something like 7 million DTV customers.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

All these comparisons with what other countries have and prices are meaningless.

The first thing you should remember when comparing prices between countries is that exchange rates mean nothing in themselves. A service elsewhere may only cost the equivalent of £10 using exchange rates but if you only earn £40 per month it is very, very expensive.

Some of the speeds available in other countries are simply not an option here unless there is massive investment in new infrastructure. Who makes that investment and how long will it take to complete? One thing for certain is that NTL and Telewest do not have the money to invest and will never have it if customers demand services at a price that doesn't generate substantial profit.

Just remember that we live in the UK and have to accept the constraints that living here puts on the services we have.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

This is the problem with the British: we suck but that's 'cos we are British so don't complain. If we complained more, as consumers are beginning to realise, we would get a better deal.

I disagree that comparisons with other countries are meaningless too. There are many comparable countries to the UK, and it makes sense to compare ourselves to them in order to judge our own performance and improve it. Saying that they have "better infrastructure" and we would need "massive investment" isn't an excuse not to do it, it's a reason to do it! It's admitting that we are rapidly falling behind. It's not like other countries were somehow blessed with super fast IP networks, they had to make the investments too. They just realised that, in the long run, it would be worth it.

Let's look at our clostest neighbour, France:

I think that's a legitimate reason to put pressure on NTL and all UK ISPs to improve. To be fair, for most ADSL providers it's BT that is holding them back, but still...

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

[QUOTE=mojo]This is the problem with the British: we suck but that's 'cos we are British so don't complain. If we complained more, as consumers are beginning to realise, we would get a better deal.

I disagree that comparisons with other countries are meaningless too. There are many comparable countries to the UK, and it makes sense to compare ourselves to them in order to judge our own performance and improve it. Saying that they have "better infrastructure" and we would need "massive investment" isn't an excuse not to do it, it's a reason to do it! It's admitting that we are rapidly falling behind. It's not like other countries were somehow blessed with super fast IP networks, they had to make the investments too. They just realised that, in the long run, it would be worth it.

Let's look at our clostest neighbour, France:

Words cost nothing but actions do. You make it sound oh so easy so explain how it can be done and where the money to do it comes from.

There is a lot of talk about the British not complaining and that is why we are lagging behind. If you stop and think about it you might cotton on to the fact that complaining in the past is one of the main reasons we are lagging behind. Unions complained about job losses and prevented the country from moving forward. If you were to look at the newstrade some forty years ago and compare it to today you would see how progress was held up by the unions. Now, a few people do the work that hundreds did before Eddie Shah came on the scene and brought the industry up to date technologically. We were once World leaders in many fields but others have overtaken us because they did not complain about the effects of change but accepted the changes and got on with it.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

They are looking toward the future, the future of their profits. They are capping so people don't use alternative TV/Phone services via the internet.
__________________

:LOL:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

SNIP://///
With a massive download speed of 8mb, the service comes with a somewhat limited upload speed of 400K yet has an impressive content ratio of 33:1. The service is capped at 500GB per month, and will cost only £39.99 per month. Cable rival Telewest offer a 4MB service for £50.00, which comes free of any caps on usage. UK Online will be offering new sign ups a free wireless ethernet router before the 21st February.
SNIP:\\\\

How come they can make a profit out of 39.99 for a 8Mb service and let someone download 500GB a month, yet ntl complain about people using too much bandwidth, and the amount is tiny compaired to this - 40GB for the top tier (which is still ALOT slower than the upto 8 Mb package? Or is the introduction of Caps to allow a fairer service to all?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Who says they are making a profit? :confused:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Now, I'm sure I've come across some firm somewhere that does something similar ... :confused: ... just let me think ....

Luckily I have no mates so never got to find that out !

Of course, one of the downsides of the mobile phone analogy is that it'd become impossible to compare the tariffs to find out which is the best deal ....:erm:

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Who says they not?
__________________

[QUOTE=ianathuth]Money comes from the shareholders, may I ask why the shareholders are demanding money if NTL is not making a profit?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Thats the ntl freedom cap rules, apparently. I don't know about anybody else, but this seems to me pretty much what its going to be like, the 'metered bb' in the investors presentation.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Well that sounds just about right. :(

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Let's keep politics out of this. I'm not a fan of Thatcher, but I won't respond directly because I don't want this to turn into a holy war.

I think you missed the point anyway. Complaining is a legitimate thing to do. People who say "put up or shut up" are either in a well off position themselves, or are about to go out of business.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I would agree that complaining is a legitimate thing to do if it is a justifiable complaint. You have to look at the bigger picture though rather than the affect on just you as an individual.

No matter what NTL do there is always someone that will complain about it even though it may be good for the company and good for the vast majority of customers.

You could complain that NTLs prices for broadband are too high but just think about the fact that if they were much lower then there would be nothing available to maintain and improve the infrastructure.

When you look at the problems of today you have to remember that most of these were caused by poor decisions in the past.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

All complaints are legimate if you value your customers.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

hi, im new to this board but basically if ntl cap the cable im off. i thought yeah great a 3mb connection and then saw the cap limit. No thankyou ntl dont call me ill call you. Yes we all download stuff off the net and use kazaa, ftp, and mirc etcor whatever p2p u use and those caps are ridiculous.
i think a lot of people will leave ntl as im now considering going back to bt and getting broadband off any numerous provider out there and get no cap, plus the prices are very good too. I personally think ntl are on to a loser here with capping. Your thoughts would be appreciated.
regards
dan
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hi all im new to this forum, i think i put my post in the wrong one anyway here i go again. If ntl cap there cable on 2 or 3 meg im off. There is no way i am gonna put up with a cap, yes we all download off kazaa, mirc, bit torrent or ftp or whatever p2p service you use. To me its freedom of choice and i will be moving back to bt and get the same service with no cap at a good price.There are so many broadband companies fighting for your money now its a consumers choice. So ntl dont call me ill call u. I can see them losing loads of customers over the next few months oh well only got themselves to blame.
regards
dan

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

On reflection, i dont really think that the majority of users (and i was one) can really complain at NTL's caps, if you legitimately use a lot of bandwidth fair enough. But to complain at being capped and not being allowed to use p2p, mirc, usenet or whatever to download stuff which is on the whole illegal anyway is a bit rich. Eventually IMO all isp's will introduce caps, I wont stay on NTL after the cap comes in not because of the cap but simply because of the really appaling service i have received from some and i do emphasise some of NTL's CS and by the time the cap comes in i will have my BT Line

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I left BT when they announced that they were going to reduce the soft cap of 30mb to a metered cap of 15mb, at least with NTL I will have had 2 speed increases and the cap raised 10mb so even when they bring in metering I will still be far better off than I was.

I like NTL but that doesnââ‚ƚ¬Ã¢â€žÂ¢t mean I wonââ‚Âà ‚¬ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¾Ã‚¢t be off like a shot if the accelerate salesman knocks one day. {dreams of 3mb upstream zzzzzzzz}

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I wished they did something like this.

http://www.zoomerang.com/recipient/s...WEB22442C92KE4

plusnet asking customers on what they think of capping.

will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

Hi, I know there is a single thread for cap talk but I wanted to do a poll.

I will probably leave ntl for ADSL if they implement a hard cap.

I want an uncapped service. I could stay on the 750 speed uncapped but the deals on uncapped adsl are much sweeter.

Will you leave if they implement a hard cap?

--
rmg.

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

Now this should be a interesting poll :)

Oh and hands up i voted no as it will not affect me.

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

any one know how to find out if you will hit the caps ???

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

Only if everyone can be a*sed to vote.The idea of going back to BT!!!I like my Cable phone I've never had any trouble with it.I live on the windiest part of the South Coast so why would I go back to BT with increased disconnections?That was why I left them in the first place.

The internet is a secondary issue for me. :)

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

Best to ask that in the cap thread. Leave this just for the poll.

I voted no is I will never get near my tiers cap.

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

Depends on how low the cap is. If it's anything like what the presentations say, then 'yes' I'm all ready to switch to ADSL.

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

Bah, I should have asked for the 'blessed' not to vote ;)

I take it certain employees get certain privileges?

Fair play to you!

--
rmg.

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

I voted no too, as I've been monitoring my usage the last 20 days with TrafficStatistic, and I've only used 1.3gb (and that was including doing a massive Windows update on my daughter in laws laptop last night).

So I'll be well within the 30gb limit (which is the same as it is now 1gb per day). If I was going to be capped at 5gb then it might be a different story, as some months I may get near it.

If it's only going to affect the big downloaders (more often than not illegal stuff), then fair enough, it will free up the network for 'normal' users so should be a good thing. I'd hate to live in the same street as a few big downloaders, it's bound to effect your connection.

I more had an issue with the £25 upgrade fee, but that seems like it'll be waived now (going by the other thread). The upload speed could also do with being a bit faster too, especially with them pushing online gaming nowadays.

You'd have to go some to use 30gb a month as a normal user, it's more the speed which things happen that's useful (not having to wait for pages to load, updates to download etc). :)

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

Employees ?

I am not, and never have been, employed by ntl.

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

I ran a network meter for a month, which I hoped would give a typical average of my monthly usage. I'm not a power user, but I do a number of things including streaming radio, online gaming and connecting to my office for a few whole days a week.

My total Upload/Downlaof was 3.6Gigs for the month of January. This included downloading patches for my games, a few software upgrades, loads of email (lots of which was spam) and general Internet surfing.

If ntl go true to form and finally decide to instigate their proposed use limits for each of the three speed types, I could easily downgrade to the £17.99 package, which will be one gig, and be inside the use limit.

Thanks ntl, you may actually save me money :tu:

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

Yeah download TrafficStatistic. I've been using it the last 20days to see how much I used in a month (1.3gb) up to now. :)

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

Sorry. brain malfunction, please excuse.

--
rmg.

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

Caps are as in presentation as far as I know.

5GB / 1Mbit (300k upgraded)
30GB / 2Mbit (750k)
40GB / 3Mbit (1536k)

EDIT: Why are we discussing if they are hard caps or not?

I see no mention of guidelines, suggested limits, I see usage allowance think that's fairly clear that at some point these caps are going to be stringently applied no?

That's not based on any exceptional knowledge, I'm not involved in this project.

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

And i can tell you i get no privileges. I check my usage with prtg and have found i average about 35 gig per month. I have 1.5meg so i will go to 3 meg. So i should have about 5 gig to spare if the amounts in the investors brief are correct

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

The thread you are referring to is entitled for a reason.

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

Sorry Neil, I was unsure if you could reply to an existing thread and create a poll.

Thanks for tidying it up.

Interesting results so far.

I have been thinking about what I said about leaving, and I probably could manage with a hard cap if they upped the uploads.

If the choice comes down to:

ntl 1.5mb down 128k up 30gig cap - £25
VS
ADSL 2mb down 256k up no cap - £30

Im off!

--
rmg.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I voted maybe, mainly because I don't believe the caps will be a problem for me. If they become a problem, and ADSL becomes competitive in my area*, I may well leave.


* Although I live only around 100 meters from the exchange (maybe slightly more, but certainly less than half a mile), my local exchange has yet to be unbundled, so I am currently stuck at whatever speeds BT can offer (2 Meg). Seeing as my NTL connection should soon be changing to 3 meg, I'll stay for a while.

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

I thought the NTL £25 product was planned to be 2mb down (definite) and 200k upload (possible)?

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

You are right, my bad. The question becomes is £5 for an uncapped service and better upload worth it?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Ok i'll ask again here.

There was something in that presentation called metered bb.

What is it?

Enforced caps?
That 'turbo' stuff that was being mentioned a while back?

It wasn't at the same time as the bb upgrades...so its something else?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Given the fact that I will leave as soon as possible after NTL enforce their "caps", I will ditch TV, Phone and BB.

What is the easiest, cheapest and quickest way to switch to UKonline or Bulldog? I assume you have to have BT install a phone line first, is that correct?

Sorry for what might seem like a stupid question, I've NEVER had a BT line, only ever been with NTL.
Not bothered about TV, just Phone and BB

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

yep you will need the bt line first, then it will be checked to see if you can receive adsl, and if so what is the maximum speed that you can have.

Normally, it takes 24 hours after the line has been installed for BT's database to update, then you can place the ADSL order with the company of your choice. Activation then takes between 3 and 14 days depending on the provider.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Thanks, It's quite an expense moving from NTL (something I'm sure they rely on), BT being the main cost (even though I won't be using their service). Having had the BT line fitted, can you immediately change phone providers?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

You need to give ntl a months notice in writing. You can have your BT line installed pretty quickly. Do you have a BT box in your house? It may cost you if you dont.

The excellent http://www.samknows.com will tell you what you can get based on your postcode alone. (Availability checker and then click on ADSL to see max speed)

--
rmg.

Re: will you leave if a hard cap is implemented?
 

Some people think that anybody agreeing with what NTL do is a NTL employee. I am not employed by NTL and never have been.

I have though been using computers since before most members were born and connecting to other remote computers long before what you know as the internet evolved. I am a realist and have researched the subject. I know that what some people are asking for is not economically viable in the long term at the prices they are willing to pay.

Broadband in the UK is relatively young and ISPs are fighting for market share. They have to use infrastructure that was never intended for the puposes that we now use it for. Broadband users today have largely grown up with services that didn't need usage restrictions because there were not that many people using them and there was capacity to spare. There are a number of people that have very high usage patterns, much of which is illegal and in contravention of their ISPs terms and conditions, but these have largely been tolerated in order to build up market share and to not give out any suggestion that competitors are offering a less restricted service than they are. There possibly are some customers with very high usage patterns that do nothing illegal and do not contravene any of their ISPs T&Cs but those I would say are very rare. If all broadband customers were to have similar high usage levels then every ISP would have severe service problems and could not continue to operate at present day prices.

Some ISPs have introduced capping as a measure to enable them to continue to offer products at a price that customers are happy with. Others are restricting high usage customers by moving them all onto the same section of their infrastructure which means that they only interfere with one another and do not adversely affect the majority of normal users. The people that say they will move to other ISPs if their service is restricted will be able to do so for a while but common sense dictates that this action will only result in the number of unrestricted ISPs becoming less and less as the very high usage customers are concentrated onto fewer ISPs. There will come a point in the not too distant future when there will be no unrestricted ISPs left and those who want a very high usage level will have to pay the price for it.

Advances in technology and improvements to the infrastructure will result in higher speeds being available and caps moving higher but at the same time new uses for your broadband connection will require more bandwidth than today.

Whilst broadband is marketed as an always on 24/7 service with the capability of moving a certain amount of data per hour it was never intended to be used to its maximum 24/7 at the prices it is marketed at. The price that broadband is today is only possible because of contention. Contention means that the user is sharing a proportion of the infrastructure with others and if they all try to use it to the full at the same time they will only get a small proportion of the advertised maximum speed that they subscribe to. When you look at problems that users post about, poor pings, lagging, slow downloads, slow uploads, etc, those problems are mainly only the result of contention taking affect and will become more commonplace if ISPs don't have prices that enable them to invest in more infrastructure or if they restrict the usage of customers.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I had my BT Line installed within 7 days of ringing them quick painless and very friendly, am now looking for a good adsl provider so if anyone has any input i would appreciate it.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Excellent, thanks for the help :)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

BT did mine within a week, even tho when a new BT pole was fitted last year, they had "forgotten" to put my BT cable back on it. And i wasnt charged a boiled bean to be re-cabled, and got my previous phone number transferred too. The BT phone bill now has the same tiers NTL introduced, so its as "cheap".
Firms like Nildram also offer a month by month adsl, so no 12 month contract. ;)

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

ukonline , i moved to them and its the best thing i ever did, got my modem after 6 working days :D 2MB unmeterd 29.99 good speeds. pipex are ok to but more expenssive. 39.99 for 2MB plusnet are ok to, and bulldog would be if you could get their 4MB, if only sdsl was affordable and not 450+ for 2MB.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

ianututh you are right to an extenct but if NTL are making 50% profit then some of that should be pumped into upgrades without penolising customers.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

http://www.adslguide.org.uk/newsarchive.asp?item=2066

Product

Contention Ratio

Price per month
SDSL 1Mbps 5:1 £183
SDSL 1Mbps 1:1 £250
SDSL 2Mbps 5:1 £250
SDSL 2Mbps 1:1 £333.34

£250 should do you for 1Mbps and £333.34 for 2Mbps, sounds like you need 1:1 so there it is!

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Who says they are making 50% profit? AFAIK they are spending money on upgrades and giving the majority of their customers a faster service at no extra cost which can hardly be described as penalising customers.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

...however, capping usage could be.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Yes, capping usage could penalise some customers, but some do need penalising. :)

What would you rather have, a 40 gig per month cap on NTL cable or an unlimited usage service from an ADSL supplier that bangs all high usage customers together on a pipe that means they restrict each other?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

neither - I'd prefer to offer high volume users something more customer friendly than restrictions such as dropping their speed to 56k or putting them on the same pipe. one such more customer friendly method is to offer additional 20GB bolt ons at £10 a go.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Yes, I should have put that option in as well.

I know that there are a fair number of users that don't want any kind of restriction on their usage but it would be interesting to see what option they would prefer if (when) all ISPs have restrictions.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I don't mind there being SOME restrictions, but NTL are (as usual) taking the ****, £39 for 40Gb is nearly £1 per gigabyte, there is NO WAY that I am tolerating that. There are plenty of Uncapped/ Reasonably capped ADSL providers who I'm sure will be happy to mop up NTLs customers.

I've been with NTL for YEARS and have put up with a fair amount of shoddy customer service, but have always consoled myself with the fact that for broadband they were second to none, now they're second to everyone except BT. and it's time to leave :(

[edit]Looking at other "capped" BB providers as an example 500Gb for £40 seems MUCH more reasonable (UKOnline) @ 12.5Gb per £1 [/edit]

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

The NTL 1Mbit (upgraded 300k) gets a cut in the quota from 5Gb down to 3Gb.

This may change the perspective of anyone who was deciding on the basis of the higher figure.

For me, it removes that tariff from consideration, as I was a bit so-so over 5Gb - and 300k speed doesn't bother me, but getting dropped to dialup speed would.

So I'm staying with 300k/30Gb for as long as that's on the table, and shopping around for ADSL alternatives.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

There's plenty of ISPs around that do neither. With UK Online's recent product launches I can't see unmetered internet dying off anytime soon.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Wasnt me who originally said it, its posted in one of the threads on general discussion that NTL are making 50% OPERATING profit.
__________________

An option to pay more for more.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

As I've said all along-it's all about consumer choice, & ntl don't give you one, just the same as they don't give you a choice about taking their phone line when all you want is a basic DTV pack....:rolleyes:

:2up: to ntl & the monkeys at the top who make these completely pathetic decisions on what to force on their customers-I hope Telewest get the opportunity to sack Hussain et all & put some proper management in place instead of a bunch of fakes who are more interested in how much they can cream off into their already bulging pockets than in making a genuine effort to keep their (wage paying) customers happy.....

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

if they have hard caps, i hope they roll over your unused gigs.. the turds.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Ummm, i thought A. Hussain was in charge of merging the two companies, not home? :o

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Not strictly speaking NTL, but interesting to read nonetheless...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/14/bt_upgrade/

So they are automatically having the download allowance and the customers can't opt out of it without incurring penalties. Interesting also how they up the speed at the same time as halving the cap. Reminiscient of both our government and NTL.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Personally, I'll be switching to the UKOnline 8mb service when it comes out

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

There may be plenty of ISPs around that do neither AT THE MOMENT, but....
With more ISPs capping or in other ways restricting downloads there is a reducing number of these around. So all the very heavy users move over to the remaining ISPs that have no restrictions and what do you get?

Think about something for a moment. How many 1Mb users can be put on a 155Mb pipe with a guarantee of no problems for any of them? Now multiply that number of users by the contention ratio to find out how many may share that pipe. Lastly, work out what each of these contended users will get if all of them try downloading at once. Anyone who has bothered to work this out will see that the more heavy users an ISP has, the more impossible it is to provide unrestricted broadband at the level some users are asking for.

There is an interesting article on BT wholesale pricing that illustrates the situation on ADSL. Have a read. http://www.crn.vnunet.com/news/1158135

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

this argument you seem to be indicating that by having a cap that you are garantueed a good level of contention and good burst speeds etc.

I hope you right because if Leics burst speeds and pings dont improve after the cap is in place there will be a lot of questions to ask.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

I have just found an article from Plusnet that states that the wholesale cost for Broadband is made up of £8.40 (ex VAT) per month per customer for the local loop component and £31,130 (ex VAT) per month per 155Mb segment of a 622Mb central pipe. http://usertools.plus.net/status/archive/1101830040.htm

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Speculation does not equal fact.

When/if the time comes where all ISPs go metered people will have to deal with that as it happens. Do you honestly believe any new tarifs recently created, with major publicity campaigns, being sold with 500gb/unmetered usage plans (using UKO as an example again) are going to lower caps to anywhere near NTL's within the next 12 months?

Also, some ISPs upgrade to meet demand. They also have business plans that they strongly believe will make them profit. UKO is not some fly-by-night set up to cash-in on the broadband boom, they have been arround for years, and likely to be here for a good few more.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Read the BT article, the problem there is BT Wholesale have moved the goalposts, their old method worked fine but then they suddenly changed things around to give less for the £.

"BT last week put forward three possible price points: £0.33, £0.45 and £0.58 per kilobit per second per month. But ISPs claim that these are all far too expensive."

The cheapest price point above £330 per megabit which is an atrocious price, I can get bandwidth cheaper then that on a 100mbit pipe as a consumer, the fact its been offered to that price at wholesale is an example of greed in our country, BT must be selling that at a 70%+ profit margin. For wholesale level I would guess a more fair pricepoint on a 155mbit pipe would be somewhere around £125-150 per megabit, if you think thats not profitable then I can tell you now I can get a 100mbit pipe in the UK as a consumer and pay less then £200 per megabit and I know a lot of isp's pay way under that.

To summarise BT are infalating the cost of bandwidth for ADSL playing similiar game to NTL, ukonline isnt subject to this problem because it doesnt use BT centrals and thats how they can offer 500gig.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

No guarantees can be given on any contended service, capped or not.

What I am trying to do is drill home the message that no ISP can continue to allow customers to have the very high usage levels that some users currently have and maintain prices at todays levels. Something, somewhere has to give.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Maybe you should be offering this advice to some ISPs at a professional level, a few of them seem to think otherwise. But what do they know, eh?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Right, say that you set up as an ISP with your "100mbit pipe that costs you £200 per megabit". You take on all the high usage customers that try to max out their connection 24/7 and give them a 2Mb service. How much do you have to charge each of them to break even and without any deterioration in their service?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

Sorry I phrased it wrong, I meant if eg. a uncapped 3mbit service is in my area from rival isp, and burst speed on that average's lets say 2.5mbit at 9pm and burst speed on NTL capped 3mbit averages say 1.2mbit wouldnt NTL look a bit stupid? So I meant they would need to garantuee better contention then the likes of AOL who are uncapped so their argument of that it improves QOS sticks.
__________________

The thing is you will never get a 100% high user base and also you would have to be a very small isp to have all your customers using 2mbit 24/7, I keep hearing the 24/7 argument which is an exaggeration of reality the truth is NTL probably have a fair few users who use above 40 gig but they dont like it and use their excuse we dont want 24/7 leechers.

But to answer your question. In the extremely unlikely event my entire customer base download's 600gig a month, it would take 50 to fill the pipe and they would be charged somewhere between £100-150 per month just for the raw bandwidth, their would be more on top obviously to factor in other costs, I dont know the full costs of providing a broadband connection, I am just arguing for bandwidth costs.

Now looking at ukonline situation they know not every customer is going to use 500gig its a great selling point so will draw in low usage customers along with high usage customer's, they will probably have a higher proportion of high usage customer's then the average isp but I already mentioned they can afford this because they dont buy their bandwidth from BT so hence its not at inflated prices.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* ntl Cap Discussion In Here Please.
 

that sounds about right. if it's LLU then the local loop component comes down to something like £1 to £1.50 a month per user.

£31,130 / 155 = £201

assuming you then share each 1Mb across 40 ADSL users then £201/40=£5 a month per user.