Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

56k after you hit the cap! :Yikes: that would be nasty!!!

Imagine it, you are in the middle of hosting a tense game of Halo2 and all of a sudden, whoops, cap exceeded!

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Not quite. Pace boxes can handle 1MB, but over 1MB needs a Samsung.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Better than cutting you off completely :)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

I was going to l;eave ntl broadband but now i know they not chargeing for the upgrade then thats ok and has for the cap if soft cap fine but if hard cap mmmm some times i dont even download 20 gig a month but other months can be about 40 to 50 gig so I will try see how I get on one thing makes me laught they do this increase but get cut backs on the engineers, they are needed if ntl have probs with there routers ect i seen many cutt backs with ntl closeing they payment shops ect longer on the phone longer to do they repairs or send any engineers out ie i got told they send an engineer out may 2004 now its feb 2005 still waiting but now my net has got its proper speed so i dont care now

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Depending on how you read that, that implies that it's only SOLD as a hard cap, not enforced as one :confused:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Yea but any sort of major speed drop is classed as enforcement in my book...

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

I hadn't read that at the time, well if that is the case, when it's confirmed NTL will lose me as a customer (not that they will care)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

As a poor person on a 300k at present, but moving up to 1meg - the only thing that really concerns me (as well as most people) is the Cap.

3 gig seems out of line with the mighty 30 gig (for £8 more, plus double speed) - but before I think about upgrading to the new 2meg speed, how much info can you get for 3gig?

i.e. any chance of someone giving me a rough estimate of (to put it into a context we can all uinderstand) how many songs I could download (wait for the comments about depepends on song/singer etc etc etc).

thanks

Lee

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

typical - you think it's soft and then it turns out it's gone hard.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

not a problem, depending on whose viewpoint you have ;)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

An average mp3 file is about 4mb, so about 800 songs per month. Average game demo now is about 200mb though, so not many of those. Same with movie trailers etc.

It's not a lot, unless you really don't use the net much, which i guess is what the service is aimed at.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

And the two times that's a problem are caps, and cheese :D

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

3 gig is about 3200 minutes of music at 128k, i.e. just over two whole days worth... if all you use the web for is music and basic browsing, then I would imagine thats enough.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

An an entry level, it's not bad - I think i'm going to stick with it. if worst comes to worst and I end up going over I can live with 56k for a few days till the next months amount kicks in.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

I assume this will be a regon by region thing like before?

www.ntlworld.com/speedupgrade should be updated in the not to distant future?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

as long as ntl offer some way for you to check what your monthly usage is at.. it shouldn't be up to the end user to have to download a broadband meter it should be supplied from ntl..

hope fully we will get an official e-mail or letter from ntl soon with the details to confirm this

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

3gig probably suits someone who just uses their connection for home banking plus surfing and the occasional download.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Out of interest, ARE NTL actually going to communicate this to their customers?

If not (as is usual) then they'd better prepare tech support for one hell of a lot of "My internet's gone slow" phone calls from the 1000's of people who don't know about the newly enforced caps. Who then will know about them and in all likelyhood start to look round for uncapped providers. AOL stand to do very nicely out of this.

Re: [Merged] *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

You can i use port fowarding and everythign works fine now i opend up a few ports and its working out great

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Which kinda begs the question why not just stick the services on those ports on the inside rather than mapping external ports to different internal ones?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

This has probably been asked and answered somewhere in the thousands of posts in this thread but I can't find anything useful with search so here goes.

What are the current upload speeds for 1.5Mb.

I thought it was 256 but I gather it is 128.

Which is it :confused:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

current upload is 64k for the £18 product, 128 for the £25 (750k) and 256 for the £38 (1.5mb) one.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

1.5MB Upload Rate is 256K

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Oh bum I was going to down grade from 3 Mb to 2 Mb to save money when the changes arrive but that will mean I'll be taking a hit on my up speed which will effect my gaming ping :(

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

But no one has said whether or not we can stay on our original speeds and stick with the soft cap - if its going to be a hard cap I would rather stay on 1.5meg

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

I gathered that it was only the lowest tier that will have the choice.

Anyway I would rather pay £25 for 2Mb than £37 for 1.5Mb.

Also 30 gig per month pretty much equals 1 gig per day.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Well seen as BT are getting their upgrades in before NTL, seems like more ISPs will be following suit soon enough in terms of ADSL.

If its a hard cap or a slowdown to 56k then Im afraid im off - may make little difference but the more people they annoy that leave, the harder they are hit.

NTL used to be decent until this capping BS started to arise while those on the other side of the country (TW) managed to sustain an uncapped service that was leading the speed increases.

So looks like it maybe ADSL >_<

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

If they are implementing a hard cap and not allowing you to stay on your current speed are they not changing the T&C of the service?

And that would mean you could cancel and leave inside your 12 months???

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Has anyone mentioned port throtting yet? :erm: :Sprint:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Couldn't agree more, I've had enough of NTL's BS now, this will be the final straw for me, there are plenty of MUCH better deals on ADSL, the only thing that's been putting me off is the cost of a BT line, now however NTL have gone too far it'll be worth £75 just to see the back of them.
NTL deserve to lose custom for this new insult and so as soon as the cap / slowdown happens I'm off too.

It's a shame, NTL used to be one of the best if not THE best ISPs in the country, now, with this latest master stroke, they must surely rank amongst the worst.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Port Throtting well that sounds quite disgusting and best kept out of this forum.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Is port throttling now happening?

that would explain why my connection has gone to pot using Edonkey

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Yeah whatever, but if (when) ntl start restricting the data that can be transferred on certain ports, don't say that I didn't warn you.
__________________

Not AFAIK, no.

No it wouldn't.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Ping won't be affected by the lower bandwidth.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Oh, fair enough, although it is strange that I can't get the amount of connections I used to be able to.

Port Shaping being used? or are you saying NTL have NO bandwidth management at all?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

There is no traffic shaping in use on the ntl network.

I fail to see why it's so disgusting as it's something that's being implemented over the BT Wholesale network, various Canadian ISPs (Hi Frank :p: ) amongst others, and with the emergence of VoIP and other real time services is IMHO an essential part of maintaining service and maintaining parity with both customer expectations and commercial requirements, so long as it's done properly.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Yes and yes... just as every other time they've changed the T&C :)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

:rolleyes: by NTL . . . . who can't even fix a missing outside terminal box cover (to name but one ongoing item), you have to be joking /:rolleyes:

my bold/italics

edit: I see it's finally been fixed due to efforts of a cf member and very obviously not via the regular channels

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

The people who would implement traffic shaping if it were to exist are completely seperate from the repair chaps.

RE: ED2K connections, installed XP Service Pack 2 recently?

Traffic shaping doesn't work that way.

I'm quite happy to say that no Layer 4 traffic management is done by NTL, apart from the transparent caching you all know and love.

Re: Speed Upgrade
 

I have UK Online 8 meg now... *drool* :)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Let's keep this On Topic please folks.....

Off topic posts will just get deleted. :)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

If they do port throttle you can change the ports in bittorent and emule etc.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Surely anyway even if port throttling was to happen in a p2p sense, you could just tunnel it through another port and escape the limited speeds?

Or is it possible to figure this out by inspecting the packets? (thats just a complete random guess from something in the back of my mind ;) ).

I'm just going to see how i go with these new caps, I don't want to leave but if i keep getting bumped down earlier in the month, i'll go elsewhere, that is if any uncapped isps still exist then.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Serious throttling of P2P traffic is done by deep packet inspection and protocol analysis. No escape from this whatever ports you use.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Nope
I'm unable to do so due to lack of HD space :rolleyes:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Nope.

Pretty much.

[Edit]-Damn that Ignition! :D

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

I had no idea they could do that,well it is good that there are a lot of other isp`s out there.With the speed increases i may downgrade to 2mbps it is faster than what i have at the moment plus i will save money.Is anyone else thinking of doing this?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Didn't A,T&T do some research which suggested you could hazard a good guess as to the number of devices attached to a router this way as well?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Weren't they dabbling with layer 7 bandwidth shaping (or at least prioritising) - I'm sure I had someone send me a link to the tech spec for the kit in use - I thought it was being trialled at the swansea head end? Or did they give up on it?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Well, it makes my mind up - upgrading to 1Mbit/5Gb was a bit of a toss-up, but 1Mbit/3Gb instead of 300k and "really don't have to worry" - no way! - almost glad, actually, as now I won't be tempted to upgrade and then worry about quota - my monitoring was on target for 3Gb (probably less) without finding anything worth downloading - some of my forums have way too much graphics and are not cache friendly.

To take the streaming example - a 128k stream for 2 hours a day, would blow the 3Gb quota before the month is up, but is comfortably within the capability of 300k - anything that needs more than 300k, you can just hear that meter ticking. Dialup speed for the rest of the month?

The only question now is to stay with NTL, or dump them for ADSL - if AOL stick to "no limits" and upgrade their basic package to 512k, it looks very tempting indeed.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

It will be interesting how the boxes cope....

I had to get a modem installed, due to my box not being able to cope with 1mb Broadband, when they upgraded to 1.5mb(i dropped to 750k)they were going to change to the silver box, is this the plan for everyone, or will we just hobble along, with losing connections/picture freezing etc...

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

why dump NTL now? do it if/when they drop your speed to 56k.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Is this packet sniffing? if so I am quite against this as its against my privacy.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

I have 2 Pace STBs.. one downstairs for my mainTV and broadband and the other in my daughter's bedroom for her TV.

I'm hoping to upgrade from the 750k broadband service to the 2Mb service when it becomes available as the monthly rental is the same.

I understand that the Pace box will have to be swapped as it cannot cope with the 2Mb speed. If that's the case will NTL change both boxes for the Samsung boxes I've heard so much about or will they change just the one downstairs?

And what will I be charged for all this please?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

i dont think they will change both, they will only change the one that you want to upgrade the broadband on, it seems there is no charge to you for doing this.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Kinda, protocol analysis from contents of packets, however contents of packets going through these systems are not stored apart from transient storage required to process them.

No major ISP has the will or resources to attempt to store packets flowing from users without a court order demanding monitoring of a particular subscriber.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Cheers, kronas.Thanks for that.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Then i suggest you disconnect from the internet now. Many systems use packet inspection.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

no problem :)

by all means you can ask them, but the replacement of set top boxes only happens if you want a speed upgrade above 1mbit, or if you have a fault with your box, im sure you can look in to that ;)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

I am pleased NTL responded to BT's anouncement but what are they going to be doing in th eautumn when 8mb downloads are available everywhere? What isp's are bit torrent friendly and don't throttle the ports?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

hmm... check the dates on the ntl and bt announcements ;)

I have no problem getting 185k from bit torrent on an ntl 1.5meg connection

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

LOL - 8mb will not be available "everywhere".

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Will the upgrades be automatic or will we have to order it???

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

I know of several ways to encapsulate packets so I'm not really bothered what ntl throttle. :P

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

:LOL:

:sick:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Me too, the only downside is that in a P2P system the other clients need to know what you are trying to say, and that's where the vulnerability comes in, the only way to have a secure encapsulation is if you have control over both sides of the tunnel, so unless you are file sharing with yourself you're a bit buggered :)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Bankrupt ones.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

off topic but how do you do the wavy LOL sign smiley its not listed in the reply box

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Either by clicking on the more options on the side in the reply window or by posting : r o f l : without the spaces.

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

:rofl:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

I read at digitalspy that teh new price for 300K will be £15.99 per month

Can anyone confirm this - or is it just some sort of introductory offer?

Do I have to request the price reduction?

thanks

(apologies if this has been covered already)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

So are you saying HTTP-Tunnel wouldn't work? :) Admittidly is more practical for most people to just get DSL plus its a non-issue at the moment.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Yup, just shape traffic that's unidentifiable (encrypted SSL should be going to port 443 not port 80 and will be differently labelled) between clients and the HTTP-Tunnel server farm by both protocol and destination subnet or indeed domain.

I see it's gaining notoriety already, quite rightly considering this is a fairly big security risk to some companies and an irritation to ISPs that shape bandwidth, already being blocked by some, interesting. Personally I'd just shape the traffic to the same policies as peer to peer, IMHO this is nothing more than some people trying to make some cash, where anything but port 80 is blocked it's for good reasons, and advertising it as a way around firewall policies and traffic shaping (implicitly) is IMHO out of order.

Hope that answers your question :)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

HTTP-Tunnel can be detected and blocked. ;) Mind you, most filesharers don't like spending a penny so they would probably use the free version at 15kbps :erm: :D :D

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Sorry if this has been covered :dunce:

Why not move over to the business tariff?

£34.99 for 1.5Mb (to increase to 3Mb)

Better service, fixed IP etc.

30GB Cap but only in the evenings.

So better service for £3 less.

.....or am I missing something lol

Re: [Merged] *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

told you this weeks ago, no admin fee and no hard cap, same style cap as imposed now - aka guideline but this time tying to sound more offical about it by saying hard cap (when its not) - aka - scaremongering heavy downloaders, just like they did when they brought in the 1 gig a day enforcement

the only way you'll be downgraded is if in you area lots of people moan about speed drops, where then they will check to see where the bandwidth is going by whatever means that they do that and when they have found out contact the person and advise them to alter their habits of be dropped to 56 service

basically just like they do now - so if your in a over subscribed area be carefull, if your not - then you have no worries as your not effecting anyone else

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

entering into a new two year contract is the drawback.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Where does it say that the business connection is going to 3Mb?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

On your site - http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...eases-update-3

:D

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Have you read your article, Neil? :p:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...eases-update-3

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

He's not going to worm himself out of this one :p:

Theres some conflicting reports btw, look at this - http://forums.ntlhell.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=7280

Maybe, as i said, that metered bb futher on in the presentation is when capping begins!

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

I meant on the ntl Business website, where the poster dragged that info from-the point I was making is that we still don't know 100% officially, so don't anyone sign up for a 2 year business contract without knowing all the facts 1st.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Does anyone seriously think that they can get round any NTL capping by switching to a NTL business service? Think about why NTL are capping and then decide if they are likely to leave a door open which circumvents the caps. Usage patterns that NTL are trying to stop on residential are even less likely to be tolerated on business.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

But it does appear that ntl have been stupid enough to leave that door open Ian.

It would *appear* that the business line has restrictions based on times of day (can't remember if it's on or off peak), so apart from the 2 year contract, the deal appears (on the face of it) to be a better one for the same/less money.....

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Possibly, the business service is uncapped during business hours and capped off peak, which is of course peak time for residential use.
More business customers creates a complimentary rather than competitive usage pattern with the available bandwidth being used by business during the day and residential during the evening.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

I don't know how you can say that Neil. The residential service door has not yet closed and we don't really know if the business door is open and even if it is, whether the door is guarded.

We don't know what checks are made, if any, to see if it is a genuine business use. There is a clause (#6) in the Business T&Cs that they could use to terminate the contract of anyone moving to Business to circumvent the cap which states "You warrant to ntl that you shall not be using the on-line services as a consumer ".

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

I did say *It appears* Ian. :)

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Just asking again as this seems to have been missed. i think I was suggested there there would be 4 price bands - I.e. the people on 300K who go for the upgrade will continue to pay £17.99, but 300K itself will become £15.99.

Is this correct?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/article/...eases-update-3

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

my question is simple can they keep the new speeds working they struggle enough with keeping it running on the existing speeds round here:mad:

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Are you referring to browsing, or file download speeds?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Simon Duffy's preentation http://www.ntl.com/locales/gb/en/inv...Final-CSFB.pdf shows on page 14 that there will be four broadband tiers. These are the existing tiers with upgraded speeds at the same price and a 300k tier at £14.99. From this it would seem that 300k users could upgrade to 1Mb for the same £17.99p m with a cap (5Gb shown on presentation but now believed could be 3GB) or stay on 300k with soft cap for £14.99.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Your uBR is looking pretty bad actually, currently running at less than 10% utilisation, all returns well within spec for QPSK and most within spec for 16QAM. Looks like you have a fault to yourself, not a uBR or area fault, have you persued this through tech support, etc?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Re: [Merged] *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

I'm actually rather bored of this now.

Tell me the above in say 6 months time as you consider yourself the fountain of all knowledge, whoever your contact is they are operating on rumour, 2nd hand information and hearsay, which in this case in incorrect.

Also as I said and you seem extremely good at ignoring the admin fee issue wasn't actually decided until last week. Not even the CEO himself knew 'weeks ago' what the score was.

I'm only saying this so that the next hearsay that your probably call centre contact comes out with isn't taken on here as fact, its' guesses which in some cases have ended up being true, in others like this one aren't.
__________________

Heh I think I know that chap, will give him a call later I think.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

I think you meant to say his UBR is looking pretty good?

Re: [Merged] *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

lol, me too, as i know i'm right, lol - No £25 admin charge proves it, same goes for capping - only caught if someone else complains of speed issue's on your UBR in street

btw person in question doesn't work for customers service.

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Was the story not changed to say that it WAS hard capping?

I've seen a few people on various forums pretending they know the facts, a few got it right, by luck, they gave very few details and it's only a matter of chance that some of them would get it right, the others would change nicks and get ready for the next big rumour mill.

So what's the facts, hard cap or not?

Re: *ALL* Speed Upgrade Discussion In Here Please
 

Everyone i talk to that is involved with the implementation of this is that the caps will be hard. What i don't know is when and how so don't ask sorry