Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

your doing quite well , you have also got Richard Clayton
posting to your blog ;)

we have thought about it and in great detail, and funny enough i was commenting on your blog about this very subject just now, but the browser crashed and i lost the text there before i hit send, ill recreate it and continue here...

(Hint) i cant work out how to bold and underline in your Blog SW anyway ;)


"I work for a company called Trainers' House Satama as a consultant and I am based in Helsinki Finland."

again ,fair enough, given your location, i will assume you lived there a while and dont necessarily know the Uk practices so well....

Blackbeak on His Blog said:
"Hitwise, ... and others have been collecting data from ISPs for years.

The manner in which they have used the information is different, they aren’t using it to specifically serve ads to people, they use it to show Internet demographical and behavioral patterns but their panel sizes are similar and similar data is aggregated.."

Ohh Yes "HitWise" and their massive collection of private data collected without consent of the Owners of that data For Commercial Gain.

"HitWise" and their Unlawful " derivative works" data,collected without consent, are now Owned By non Other than the Uk's No1 Credit Reference Agency (1 of the 3 main CRA's in the Uk) Experian.

the very same CRA that the Banks,Building sociaties and Broadband companies, (the so called 3B's) that keep the Uks data flowing into the corporate machine.

they use the CRAs to check on every single person's credit files, and they also feed the CRA's with Your personal data to get a better Discount on access to these Data records.

theres one single perfect example of why its in their interests to know the browsing habits of individuals ,they profit Directly from your unique and Automatically copyrighted data ,without paying you a single penny for the use of that data for a commercial enterprise, and they get to fill up their data bases to sell to other partys for commercial profit, commercial Piracy By any other name....

but it gets better from your Business Model perspective, but you do understand, it's to everyone elses detriment, and that includes YOU as a Private person.

you say you understand the old software tools of your trade, and from that are we to assume you also Now know first hand, the Power of these Deep Packet Inspection/Interception, Yes/No?

then With your private person "Hat On" ;), you and More so your readers, should Be informed that Experian are infact now the owners of that HitWise data collection, that HitWise IS useing the same type of DPI interception devices as Phorm and NebuAd, and Experian are working to also get this kit into all the ISPs internal country wide networks, to data mine all Your Online personal data and that of the website owners too perhaps, after all its now becomeing "Industry Practice" so that makes it all legal and right ,if they can do it, so can you type thinking perhaps.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3688387.ece
Experian to track net users



Expect your most interesting Datastreams and their "derivative works" in your Credit Reference File any day now if not sooner....

Ohh and while your here just to fill i that other forgotten goldmine....

you might also want to inform your readers, your family and friends that the Mobile DPI interception for Profit of Your Datastreams is already available to your friendly 3rd party data collectors, coming to your EU (Helsinki Finland ?)Mobile Phone any day now too....

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/12/mobile_phom/
Qualcomm buys into Phorm-alike firm

Data gathering on the hoof

"The Irish company specialises in analysing the habits of mobile phone users in order to target advertising at them, and has customers including Orange UK..."

"
Orange assured us that the "browsing logs" only refers to on-portal usage (within Orange World), and "billing information" relates to purchases made from the operator.

However, Portal Relevance Manager Jim Small is quoted as saying that 2008 will be the year when the service is "rolled out fully into all download content areas and beyond into browsing content in third-party off portal services".
"

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Correct which is why the wording is:

"The European Data Commission had indicated that the IP Address for any Internet User IS PII"

and not

"The European Data Commission have Legislated that the IP Address for any Internet User IS PII"

Anyways, bickering aside....

... Phorm MUST be stopped

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You think?

OK so when Phorm intercept your non blacklisted web mail which may have your real name appear in any text in an email or email header, that is not access to personal information?

When Phorm intercept your shopping carts which are not https encrypted (most are only encrypted for the Login not for further pages) that is not access to your personal information?

When Phorm intercept your forum posts on a political forum where you share your political views, that is not access to your personal information?

Just three off the bat examples, I could name hundreds of others if you like.

Interception at the network level IS NOT the best way to gather this data (nor is it legal). There are no safeguards in place whatsoever in real terms and all Phorm's spouting on about blacklists and whitelists is just a bunch of whitewash. Given the nature of changes on the net on a minute by minute basis whitelists and blacklists are not suitable solutions because they can never feasibly keep up or cover even a modest percentage of possible breaches of privacy.

It is ILLEGAL period. BT broke CRIMINAL LAW and COMMON LAW with their trials, Phorm were complicit and should be charged with conspiracy under the same laws.

The current model of Phorm's technology is also in violation of CRIMINAL and COMMON LAW for many of the same reasons but with Fraud thrown in for free.

How many times does that need saying to drill it into your head?

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Superb. Informative, cogent and concise. Well done.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Good. It would be a shame for someone who seems to have some intelligence not to learn from so many others that they were wrong.

Deception, Blackbeak, is what Phorm and Webwise is ALL about.

It has to be sold to consumers using deception because there is very little good to be gained by the consumer and plenty to lose. That's why Webwise has been and will continue to be "sold" as giving users security with its anti-phishing piece (the anti-phishing alreday freely available in IE7 etc and therefore just not needed)

Hank

---------- Post added at 17:09 ---------- Previous post was at 17:06 ----------

oh-oh... we're goin to be victims of their trial again?

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle4137799.ece

After a troubled beginning, Phorm’s time may finally have come. The firm tracks the websites that internet users visit and serves them relevant display advertising. So far Virgin Media, Talk Talk and BT – where the latest trial of the technology begins this week – have signed up, keen to get a slice of the online advertising pie.

Significant concerns about Phorm remain. A 20% slide in its thinly traded, volatile shares this year stems from the fact that it is a long way from delivering on its promises. Phorm’s sales are still negligible.

However, the talk is that boss Kent Ertugrul will shortly sign up an overseas internet service provider, too.

Whether his business model gains traction or not, the shares look ready to bounce back.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:tu::smokin::clap::hyper::woot:

i think you get the picture LOL,

thats fantastic, and the

Everyone is at risk.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well I guess in some respects we can only hope the trials are finally going to start (although I won't hold my breath) because that is when people who are issued with the "We want to spy on everything you do (well almost everything) can we have your permission please?" page will start to lookup Phorm/Webwise etc on Google and we all know what they are going to see.

Launching a trial now just before the AGM might be a big bonus for the campaign because it will increase public awareness immediately.

There are a couple of us with AdWord campaigns running at the moment so hopefully we will be capture a large percentage of Google traffic relating to the trial.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Excellent. I've sent you a PM. Hank.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Actually speaking of AdWords if anyone is a pro can they get in touch by PM it would be handy to have some help making sure we make the most out of our campaigns.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

What business model is that? the covert one got blown, now it must be OPT IN, which will hurt it a lot.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Y'see, I'm still not sure of that. A cleverly designed webpage extolling the benefits of webwise might catch a lot of phish. How many teenagers for example will care enough to find out what it's all about? In the "give me something for free" culture, why would they turn down the extra freebee "security"? Given that their parents are forever telling them to be careful online, they may even see it as a sensible move :shocked:

This comes back to something I said earlier. We have to win hearts and minds outside the geek World or the further trials could be declared a success with only a minority objecting and/or not participating. BT and whoever could be selective about participants and screen out all known dissenters.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

not everyone can read Powerpoint without installing the massive MS or OO so i saved it out as a PDF and saved a few K in the process for those people.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

hank, i posted to that
"Whether his business model gains traction or not, the shares look ready to bounce back"
but they dont seem willing to authorise comments that point out the the fact his long term business model is no good, as its based on making Unlawful "derivative works" using commercial Piracy without paying the content owners their fees, or signing a contract as its base...

---------- Post added at 17:55 ---------- Previous post was at 17:51 ----------

Ohhh thats odd BUT I LIKE IT, ;) i made a second post and it didnt get mashed into the one just above it, cool....

did Paul change the settings? good ;) i prefer it this way.

apparently only a one off, shame...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Please feel free to use this article, my name and the full discussion on my site if you feel it will give strength to your arguments. FYI the legal document supplied by Dr Clayton was the clincher for me.

Bad Phorm

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks for making the effort to listen, do further research and post your findings with honesty.

Alexander Hanff