Cable Forum - Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

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- Virgin Media Internet Service (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=12)

- - Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797] (https://www.cableforum.uk/board/showthread.php?t=33628733)

SelfProtection

14-06-2008 17:15

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by popper (Post 34575474)

another uninformed blogger putting the Pro Phorm case....
http://blackbeak.conversionchronicle...rns-around-bt/

Typical not accepting adverse comments & probably collecting E-mail addresses of anyone who's anti-phorm.

Hank	14-06-2008 17:34

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

CEO BT on Radio 4 now

Florence

14-06-2008 17:42

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank (Post 34575487)

CEO BT on Radio 4 now

What was he saying and was it Ian or the old CEO Ben

isf	14-06-2008 17:50

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SelfProtection (Post 34575477)

Typical not accepting adverse comments & probably collecting E-mail addresses of anyone who's anti-phorm.

I don't think so, although it does read like a cynically constructed PR piece, the guy is an ex-copyrighter. He obviously sees more work for himself if other telcos decide to sell their customers out (we'll know about it if and when Nokia and co start lobbying).

Privacy_Matters

14-06-2008 18:01

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Discuss Phorm Banner:

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/4...ssphormlv8.gif

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/4...ssphormlv8.gif

Dimensions: 468 (W) 60 (H)

Filesize: 32kb

Ext: .gif (no compression)

Link this back to any of the sites. If you want specific text PM me, I'll ammend for you.

BadPhormula

14-06-2008 18:13

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

This thread has now gone over the half a million hits! (500,373)

Onwards and upwards one million here we come.

AlexanderHanff

14-06-2008 18:37

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by popper (Post 34575474)

another uninformed blogger putting the Pro Phorm case....
http://blackbeak.conversionchronicle...rns-around-bt/

I just posted this comment, posting it here in case he doesn't publish it:

Quote:

There is so much to fault in your blog that it is impossible to do it in a comment; so I will make only these points:

1. Using Deep Packet Inspection technology for the purpose of behavioural advertising in the EU is illegal. There are no if's or but's, it is clear legal fact and is based around consent issues. It is impossible to get the consent of all parties as required given that the Internet consists of billions of web sites. There is currently no way Phorm can be legal using DPI and in fact since the EU decided to emphasise informed consent even more in recent regulations, it is unlikely this situation is going to change.

2. There are plenty of methods available for collecting the same data without requiring the use of such intrusive technology. If Phorm are so confident that people want this product they should develop LEGAL client side software (as in -not rootkits- as they did in their previous incarnation as 121Media). That way people would have a clear understanding and a clear choice. Building an entire 21st century network topology based on interception of communications is a ridiculously dangerous path to go down (which is why it is illegal).

3. You may not value your privacy. You may be happy for 3rd party equipment to sit in the network between yourself and the Internet and read every single piece of unencrypted data you access/send over the web, that is fine and you are entitled to that position. Many of the rest of us however value our rights and frankly we find it offensive that a former spyware (or any other) company feel they have the right to steal what the police and law enforcement authorities must obtain a warrant for.

4. Privacy is an inalienable and fundamental Human Right covered in Article's 7 and 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights 1950, Human Rights Act 1998, Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000, Privacy and Electronic Communications (EC Directive) Regulations 2003, Data Protection Act 1998. Furthermore, the covert trials in 2006/2007 and the planned deployment of the current model are in violation of Fraud Act 2006, Computer Misuse Act 1990, Torts (Interferance with Goods) Act 1977 and Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1998.

In conclusion, whether you think it is OK or not is wholly irrelevant, it is in violation of both criminal and common law and as such BT should be prosecuted for their covert trials in full and Phorm should be be prosecuted for conspiracy under the same. Also, Phorm's "services" should be banned in their current form as they are in violation of criminal and common law; and believe me, once we manage to initiate a case in the courts an injunction to prevent Phorm from deploying in the UK will be filed for.

Alexander Hanff

tdadyslexia

14-06-2008 20:30

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Privacy_Matters (Post 34575369)

Banners

Hey Guys, had to take a little time away, and will complete the two left to do today.

If anyone wants a banner for their website, PM me with the specs, filesize limit and so on. They will all be the same format for the next week, to ensure familiarity and cohesion within the campaign. Please ansure that the dimensions are started ie 250 (W) x 300 (H), file limit 80kb etc. And include the prefered text.

I will create in bulk and post here and on badphorm, in the fightback section.

The Templates I have can throw up a Banner/Signature etc within minutes, except when animation is required - this will take a little longer.

Don't ask for reference to your own website, your site is your own responsibility, and the goal of this effort is to ensure a coherant body to oppose Phorm.

I've checked the Petition today, and only about an extra 100 signatures, can all website owners please put the button below onto their sites:

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8...nbuttonhf3.gif

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

Create a link by clicking the button to:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ispphorm/

Please add a short editorial comment to explain Phorm, and what the site is for.

The sooner we can create a cohesive network, and start to work together solidly on this matter, the sooner we can help to educate the majority of the population.

Thanks

Sammy

I will create banners to link to your website too (Anti Phorm Sites only). If you have a Google AdSense Campaign, and are wishing a few additions, let me know.

Thanks for the Anti-Phorm Banners I have added to my sites these:

[img]Download Failed (1)[/img] https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/21.gif

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/22.gif

---------- Post added at 20:30 ---------- Previous post was at 19:17 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by popper (Post 34575474)

another uninformed blogger putting the Pro Phorm case....
http://blackbeak.conversionchronicle...rns-around-bt/

Have you thought that this could be Kent or one of his minions, I smell a rat! :(

warescouse

14-06-2008 20:33

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

While I think its correct and proper to complain and make a lot of noise to our MP's, MEP's and the like and certainly 'educate' possible Phorm investors, I sometimes worry if we are fully hitting and educating what I think should be one of our main targets 'Joe public'.

Take for instance the people who follow this forum and stop off at El Reg and similar from time to time. I would guess by and large the readership and writers are internet savvy, technical, and in most, if not all, cases very PC literate. I don't know what number would be within this membership but I would predict that we, and I include myself in that group, would be within a small distinct demographic to use advertiser terminology.

This is where I feel we can fall down at times. I think at times we target too much our own demographic and not target enough the general population who are not as PC literate as ourselves.

If I was to allocate marks on what I have seen so far I would give.

Effort 100%
Legal issues, legal complaints and technical analysis involving anti Phorm propaganda 98%
Educating investors 80%
Joe public anti Phorm propaganda 5%

I am not suggesting we have done anything wrong in what has been achieved, far from it, but what I am suggesting is that we are not hitting home the issue to the larger population. The BT rally will certainly help if we can get enough publicity but I think we have to have more sound-bites that worry Joe public. This has been mentioned before.

I think only then will the daily newspapers and the more general media become 'Phorm Alerted'.

Two hypothetical differing statements (A and B), which one do you think would Joe Public react to the most?
(That is: Joe public who goes online)

A) Phorm performs deep packet inspection and intercepts all your internet data. This will be used to produce targeted adverts and is illegal under the DPA. BT have done illegal trials of this technology.
To find out more go to .....

B) Your internet connection will be intercepted by a company associated with nasty spyware with BT's permission. This company could have access to everything you watch and type online. Big brother could be watching you! Unless you prevent this now, you cannot stop it happening once it is in place.
To find out more go to .....

I am sure that most of you could come up with better examples than I but am I alone in my thoughts? Your comments please?

tdadyslexia

14-06-2008 20:42

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warescouse (Post 34575547)

[Snip]

Two hypothetical differing statements (A and B), which one do you think would Joe Public react to the most?
(That is: Joe public who goes online)

A) Phorm performs deep packet inspection and intercepts all your internet data. This will be used to produce targeted adverts and is illegal under the DPA. BT have done illegal trials of this technology.
To find out more go to .....

B) Your internet connection will be intercepted by a company associated with nasty spyware with BT's permission. This company could have access to everything you watch and type online. Big brother could be watching you! Unless you prevent this now, you cannot stop it happening once it is in place.
To find out more go to .....

I am sure that most of you could come up with better examples than I but am I alone in my thoughts? Your comments please?

Yep you have a good point, I think that Joe public would go for (B) .

isf	14-06-2008 20:52

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warescouse (Post 34575547)

Take for instance the people who follow this forum and stop off at El Reg and similar from time to time. I would guess by and large the readership and writers are internet savvy, technical, and in most, if not all, cases very PC literate.

Word of mouth is the most powerful marketing device there is and just who is it that maintains and removes the spyware from the typical family PC? Perhaps a simple pdf datasheet for us techs to hand out to relatives, colleagues and clients?

Dephormation

14-06-2008 20:57

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warescouse (Post 34575547)

I am sure that most of you could come up with better examples than I but am I alone in my thoughts? Your comments please?

I agree with you.

The problem I think is that many people I talk to just assume its illegal anyway, or find it hard to believe a firm like BT would do something so obscene.

But I'm sure some also don't understand how they can influence or exercise control over the internet.

The killer though is the mainstream press; we would need great coverage from them. Its not impossible, Chris Williams coverage has been brilliant. Charles Arthur has written online, but nothing I've seen in the paper pages. Daily Mail did some great work early on, but they've been silent of late.

It seems some newspaper groups have been sold a pipe dream by Phorm.

Perhaps noting sympathetic journalists when you read the paper, and writing to them would help get a wider audience? For example I think I recall reading an article by Janet Street-Porter in the Independent lamenting the intrusions on her privacy. Perhaps she could be interested?

One other option is writing or offering copy for them to use.

Pete.

warescouse

14-06-2008 20:57

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by isf (Post 34575554)

Word of mouth is the most powerful marketing device their is and just who is it that maintains and removes the spyware from the typical family PC? Perhaps a simple pdf datasheet for us techs to hand out to relatives, colleagues and clients?

Cannot disagree with that. Everyone who has had spyware, viruses and trojans removed by myself in the past are very paranoid after I have given the hard hitting speech afterwards about what could happen if you allow these nasties to come again.

Linking Phorm with 121Media's history in my opinion is our biggest weapon because a large percentage of this larger demographic group had experienced Trojans Popups and the like.

Dephormation

14-06-2008 20:58

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/36.png https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2008/06/37.png

mark777

14-06-2008 21:03

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warescouse (Post 34575547)

{snip}
Two hypothetical differing statements (A and B), which one do you think would Joe Public react to the most?
(That is: Joe public who goes online)

A) Phorm performs deep packet inspection and intercepts all your internet data. This will be used to produce targeted adverts and is illegal under the DPA. BT have done illegal trials of this technology.
To find out more go to .....

B) Your internet connection will be intercepted by a company associated with nasty spyware with BT's permission. This company could have access to everything you watch and type online. Big brother could be watching you! Unless you prevent this now, you cannot stop it happening once it is in place.
To find out more go to .....

I am sure that most of you could come up with better examples than I but am I alone in my thoughts? Your comments please?

Unfortunately, even for point B, most of the public would say 'whatever'.

Looking at the Downing Street petitions (not available at the moment), what gets the votes?

Saving money (Fuel duty and costs).
Patriotism (Ghurkers and Red Arrows).

We can't hit joe public with money saving ideas but how about hitting the patriotism side?

e.g. It's rude, it's not British. We don't do things like that in this country.

Perhaps some posters:

A Guardsman : "Phorm - He wouldn't stand for it".

A flight of Spitfires : "They would soon shoot Phorm down"

A flotilla of warships : "Phorm is sunk"

I can't do art, but I know there are people here who can. :)

EDIT : I see Pete is already there!

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