Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Exactly the reason I am now using safari for the majority of my surfing.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi All, I expect that a lot of you have seen "Phorm" related stuff on YouTube but just in case anybody else would like to look here is the link -
http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...m&search_type=
keep up the hard work you lot, you are all just brilliant!

davethejag

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That spokesman would be Nicholas Lansman .. long standing PR highflyer who formed a company "Political Intelligence". a lobbying company in Westminster.
BE WARNED ... He has the ear of the govt

tongue forked springs to mind

http://www.britishlivertrust.org.uk/.../trustees.aspx

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

And that was also an interesting quote from Lord Triesman, member of the Government
Lord Triesman, the parliamentary Under Secretary for Innovation, Universities and Skills, said intellectual property theft would not be tolerated.

I've given it a whirl on BT Beta forums.
Should we be contacting the Lord Triesman and asking him if he feels just as srongly about Webwise/Phorm?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Can't we put the video's youtube? or are they there already?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Long time follower of the thread and fantastic to see so many people standing up against this, finally decided to post...

Speaking of YouTube videos... not sure if anyone has mentioned this before but there appears to be an actual PhormComms YouTube channel with Kent answering some "FAQ's". Although it is literally just him reading out the copy and paste answers that frankly I'm getting a bit bored of hearing!

Also noticed that Alexanders paper got an honorable mention on an article over on TorrentFreak the other day so its really hitting all corners of the net!

Just want to say a massive thanks to everyone on this thread for all the active work that you have done to bring this to light, and if Virgin are reading this... how disappointed I am that they are even humouring this.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:welcome:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well I have sent an email to Lord Triesman, (parliamentary Under Secretary for Innovation, Universities and Skills) politely drawing his attention to the ISPA statement about packet inspection, and also noting his stand against intellectual property theft - and asking if he could expand his focus on teenage file sharers, to consider the issue of illegal actions by BT during 2006 and 2007. I have also given him the relevant links to assist his enquiries includig the legal analyses by FIPR/Bohm and Alexander Hanff and Dr Clayton's technical analysis.

Not sure if those who are in contact with Lord Northesk might like to draw his attention to the Lord Triesman and ISPA remarks in that BBC article?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:welcome: alias69

I did notice all the K*nt crap videos on there, too; it's just sad that the git won't release the video we all want to see. I do like the fact that he got not one positive comment in reply to any of his spin. :dunce:

btw. make sure you check out Kursk's post here: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34...-post5762.html, and work your way through that list.

OB

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If your fairly quick you can catch Alexanders clash with the evil Kent on the BBC iplayer, on Sundays "click", good for you Alex.:tu:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

There are plenty on youtube but not the ones from the public meeting. There is also one placed on by you guessed it phorm making them look like th eknight with shinning armour.

This was interesting though since it says phorm have been doing this for years in the UK!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDtYLs1FhzY

---------- Post added at 00:38 ---------- Previous post was at 00:36 ----------

the proof of BT's interception live..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgZjeckpUXY

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sod his opinion, being american im sure hes better at it than most.

Besides you might as well blow your trumpet, i mean theres more than enough people out in the world ready to put you down, you shouldnt have to do that yourself ;)

/me is all for self promotion.

And besides, whats better, gaining publicity and a reputation from doing something worthwhile.

Or getting one by being an idiot running a company with a shady past and holding the opinion that everything you do is in the best interests for everyone on the face of the earth?

Blow your own trumpet i say, youve got a right to be proud of your achievments.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Here is an interesting little thread. Seems Phorm is not popular with affiliate networks either:

(Source: Affiliates4U)

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

An interesting find but one I feel that if phorm does sign up to use their networkl for advertising then the customers identity will become known to the phorm number/ customer ip/customername/address/banking (if they actually purchase).

There is no way to send someone targeted adverts without someone being able to reconnect everything if the person buys. There fore if this is forced on the customers best advice is to go back to buying in the high street and drop the online shopping like a hot potato.


Love the second one since that is what they said would happen they replace adverts on sites that have them to relevant ones. The stumbling block is who is guilty of the spyware is it Phoirm who are inciting the ISPs to break the laws or the ISP for allowing the spyware?

Since most people copyright their websites what is there to stop the site owner adding in that if any adverts are altered that this woudl be seen as spyware?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I've emailed Lord Triesman as follows:

Dear Lord Triesman

I am writing to you to follow up some comments you made in a BBC news article from October 2007
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7059881.stm

The article was about internet file sharing and included an interesting comment by the ISPA (Internet Service Providers Association)
Quote from article:
The Internet Service Providers Association has always maintained that it cannot be held responsible for illegal peer-to-peer traffic because it is "merely a conduit" of such material.
"ISPA does not support abuses of copyright and intellectual property theft," said an ISPA spokesman.
He said: "However, ISPs cannot monitor or record the type of information passed over their network. ISPs are no more able to inspect and filter every single packet passing across their network than the Post Office is able to open every envelope."
"ISPs deal with many more packets of data each day than postal services and data protection legislation actually prevents ISPs from looking at the content of the packets sent," he added.
End of quote from article

You indicated in that article that " intellectual property theft would not be tolerated."

You may be aware of a new tracking and interception technology called Webwise, being promoted by a company called Phorm.Inc (formerly spyware and rootkit producers 121Media), CEO Kent Ertugrul.

Kent Ertugrul is claiming "we can see the whole internet" and his technology actually employs Deep Packet Inspection, to intercept and profile ALL packets in the data stream between ISP customers and the network and the websites they visit.

So the claim by ISP's that they "cannot inspect and filter every single packet passing across their network" is now no longer true. There is a technology, marketed by Phorm for exactly this process, being considered by the three largest ISP's in the UK, covering at least 75% of the consumer ISP market - the companies are BT (who have already secretly and illegally trialled this technology without customer (or website owner) informed consent, in fact without any consent at all), and Virgin Media and TalkTalk (owned by Carphone Warehouse).

You can see Phorm's own claims for this product at their website, www.phorm.com and www.webwise.net
You can see BT's own explanations of this technology at http://webwise.bt.com/webwise/index.html

This involves, according to privacy watchdog FIPR, a number of illegalities, regarding the interception and redirection of internet traffic at the most basic level of the internet, known as Layer 7, as well as the abuse of the intellectual content rights of webmasters who are going to find that when a Webwise linked customer visits their site, the entire unique personal data exchange between the site and the visitor will be profiled by Phorm/Webwise, to enable Phorm/Webwise to target ads at the site visitor based on their analysis of content of the website and the site visitors overall browsing habits. Phorm will be reading (without the informed consent of the webmaster, and without the webmaster being given a way of selectively excluding or blocking the Webwise profiling) and profiling the content of the website, for their own financial advantage.

ICO have clearly indicated that such technology requires consumer opt-IN.
http://www.ico.gov.uk/about_us/news_...e_and_oie.aspx
In the secret BT trials of 2006 and 2007 (initially denied by BT in response to customer and even press enquiries) there was NO customer or content provider consent. In the systems currently being promoted by Phorm/Webwise, the marketing model preferred by Kent Ertugrul is opt-OUT, clearly contrary to the ICO statement.

In the light of your comments on the issue of file sharing, I thought you might be interested in pursuing this matter and in particular urging the government to respond to the questions being asked (21st April) about this technology by Lord Northesk of the Science and Technology Committee
http://www.publications.parliament.u..._2140_wad.html
and to the Early Day Motion in the Commons, promoted by Don Foster MP
http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDe...52&SESSION=891

Further concern is caused by the fact that BT carried out secret trials of this technology and so far no action has been taken against what appears to be several breaches of Data Protection legislation, Fraud Act, Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act and Protection of Electronic Communications regulations. Attempts by affected BT customers who suffered actual harm as a result of the 2006 and 2007 secret BT Webwise trials to report this matter to their local police and also to central regulators such as the ICO, have resulted in complainants being referred to the Home Office who have insisted that is not their remit, and to this date, NO action has been taken by any regulatory authority about these alleged breaches of legislation by BT.

It appears that while teenage file sharers are quickly arrested and prosecuted or subject to civil action, a large corporation like BT can break the law with impunity.

Further research on Phorm and Webwise may be done by entering "phorm" into the search box at www.theregister.co.uk or at the BBC news site. The current search list is here
Register - http://search.theregister.co.uk/?q=phorm
BBC - http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/sear...oolbar&q=phorm

There are a number of useful links here
FIPR legal analysis of this technology - http://www.fipr.org/080423phormlegal.pdf
Legal analysis of BT secret trials in 2006 and 2007 - http://www.paladine.org.uk/phorm_paper.pdf
Technical analysis of the webwise technology by Dr Richard Clayton of Cambridge University
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rnc1/080404phorm.pdf

General link farm on Phorm/Webwise
http://www.inphormationdesk.org/attributions.htm

Thank you very much for your attention in this matter.
I will be publishing this email on internet forums and hope to publish your reply unless you indicate to the contrary.

If anyone else wants to do likewise? Remember Lord Triesman is a member of the government.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:clap: for R Jones. Good work there. I will be emailing Lord Triesman this afternoon.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Simon is between a rock and a hardplace. He has already stated that Privacy International received a total donation of £130 from the public to show for all his free voluntary privacy work. He setup a limited company for wages and profit in order to provide himself and his family a living, you can't blame a guy for selling out when he gets next to nothing for his privacy work. That is why I feel sorry for Simon, he's had to damage his own credibility and integrity by placing himself into Kent Ertugrul's top pocket (that is truely sickening).

People please understand Simon must feed his family as well. Try and put yourself in the mind of prison guard at Auschwitz-Birkenau the inhumanity of those death camps, yet the guard was only following orders under duress - but they still have to live with a lifetime of remorse and guilt afterwards. It's the madmen like Hitler, Himmler (Kent Ertugrul, Stratis Scleparis, Emma Sanderson) who are the architects of these atrocities... Simon his merely a camp guard putting privacy in the furnace at the behest of the evil overlords.

If you want to do something send Privacy International £10 or something as a gesture of sympathy for what Simon has to do!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

With Kent keep saying it is privacy international that has given phorm the pass he is infact tainting that also what saddens me is Simon doesn't correct Kent when he missleads the public yet it is the public that Simon used to protect. Once phorm goes live all the work privacy international does will be devalued all over the world.
As the saying is it only takes one bad apple in this case kent to turn the barrel.

It is only us now fighting to stop this intrusion into our privacy we have no other protection there is nothing out there but alexander now and the fact thet customers can leave to join ISPs who do value their customers, treat them as human beings with rights and not just another number to con.

Perhaps the best thing Simon could do is not publish this report at all since Kent has already broken promises to Simon, one being the Video which is still mising on another note seems strage the only live videos on the internet has now been hacked twice only winner Kent. Are BT, VM and talktalk really willing to become accomplacies in this type suspicious links.
Would anyone ever trust their business plans again with the phorm on the network, past history on phorm management, can they be sure he will only harvest what he said and nothing would ever make the customer identifyable. Are they prepared to face the consequencies if a customer ended up being identified by the phorm system to hackers, con artists etc?

Who needs phorm whe Yahoo can protect the surfer as they search.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7385285.stm with no links like the ISP to persoanl data IE. Name, Address and bank details..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

My biggest concern is that Simon has an agreement with Phorm that if they use and publish any statements from his report that the full report must be published. We all know just how good Kent is at selective quoting!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

My biggest concern is this whole Phorm saga might damage the one good thing Simon had his good reputation which in turn will devalue all his future work with Privacy international.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

OK folks I have been trying to do something about the coverage from the PIA meeting. I have emailed a contact at the BBC to see if they still have their audio footage of the meeting and whether or not they would be willing to release it.

I know it is not a video but if they do have it at least people will be able to hear what was said during the questions and answers panel at the end. Of course there is no guarantee they have it and even if they do there is no guarantee they would be willing to release it, but it doesn't hurt to try.

I will update the thread as soon as I receive a reply.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That has been one of the terns and conditions of service for a long time. Certainly over a year. http://web.archive.org/web/200702141...ble/terms.html

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Wasn't channel 4 also recording the event?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If memory serves C4 were not in the lecture theatre during the panel at the end, they were recording interviews with key speakers from the event outside.

If I have no luck from the BBC I will contact C4, I think they wanted to have a follow up chat with me anyway since they never managed to record my speech at the meeting, but I have been so busy I haven't managed to chase that up yet.

Alexander Hanff

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

"might damage" = has damaged

If Phorm goes ahead and it installed into the ISPs I have a feeling Simon may step down at Privacy International for personal reasons. :(

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Personally I hope you are very wrong about that. The whole Phorm issue aside, Simon has been an amazing advocate fighting for privacy rights for the best part of 2 decades. I believe we would all lose out if Simon were to step down from PI.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I feel Simon needs to decide just where his expertise and best interest are, working with firms like phorm or defending the civilians that are going to be harmed, at risk or othewise unprotected from these types of privacy invading companies with devious past history.

Look at what has happened since this was taken on IE.
1.Video was promised to be online Simon had his name to the post saying this would happen he was the one to apologise for Phorms bad behaviour.

2. Miss leading quotes from Kent making Simons position harder.

3. Links with Phorm and BTs illegal tests ( not investigated yet maybe the report should be on hold until this is investigated)

4. Links into Russia with Russian scriptors websites hosting the only video of the public meeting hacked with the link in the iframe going back to Russia.

5. The depth of intrusion that phorm can do if these same Russian scriptors adjust the get commands ( this will be hidden from the public and possibly the ISP)

6. The fact Phorm is run by people who have a reputation of spyware ( no matter how Kent rephrases this it was spyware placed on peoples computers without informed consent)

7. The reasons given for needing phorm are false there are many alternatives out there cost nothing and not as intrusive into your privacy.

8. All Phorm can say is google just because google makes some money from adverts they give those using their search engine. but google brings visitors to your website and if a business customers, costs you nothing to use the service. While phorm will take them away use your site content to profile the person and direct them to businesses on Phorm's platform and give you nothing in return so an easy way to look at the difference is one gives for free the other takes for free I would like ot stay with the one that gives me plenty for free..

Now I can go on but I think 8 so far is more than enough to say why Phorm is bad for Customers, privacy, ISPs and Simon.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Not to mention the fact that if you (as either a consumer or website owner) don't want Google to "profile" you, then they do seem to respect your wishes, and even you don't believe they are respecting your wishes, their methods are easy to block.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

on the google thread.... more free offerings from yahoo too...... :)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7385285.stm

seems to make webvise a bit redundant really...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Posted that a few posts before and again no profiling of your internet or reading every packet that comes to your PC. Makes Kents words more like spyware than ever.

---------- Post added at 14:14 ---------- Previous post was at 14:05 ----------

While it is fresh in our minds that Phorm looks to have stolen the name and design of the log from an older company in Sheffield the name Webwise was in use in the BBC for schools befopre Phorm changed from 121media.. Doe this show some lack of imagination from managment or just it is cheaper to modify what is already about making more profit for them to scam off..MPO :D

http://www.bbc.co.uk/webwise/askbruc...pyware_1.shtml
Again my personal opinion

Perhaps BT, TalkTalk and VM need to do a complete investigation thems elves beore they become straggled by the redtape of what could be a con in full flow.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Webwise = soft, fluffy name for users.
Phorm = name for financial markets and advertising community to show how hard they are.

:td:

-----

I've been thinking about one of 80/20's comments over the weekend. That blocking Phorm might involve a trade war with the US.

Does this mean that Smith & Wesson will be opening a Guns 'R Us in the near future?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Phorm = name stolen from

http://www.php-form.net/phormation.php

phorm.com even had hosted the download for it at some point.

http://www.siteadvisor.com/sites/pho..._type=IEPlugin

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

MPO The US can have phorm and their trade there are plenty of fish in the sea and we are supposed to be a free country since when did we become USA prisoners to their will?

When did we surrender to anyone who tries blackmail to get something not palatable accepted?

Also if Phorm goes ahead where do you think the lion share of the money wil be not BT, VM or Talktalk but USA you can be sure Kent never seems to make a profit so obviously good at cooking...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

If that's true, it's another strike against democracy by "the land of the free"..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thought you would all like to know what goes on over at the BT forum where a lot of us guys here came from.

A thread made by a fellow called Andrew (one of us here, I think) complaining about BT censoring their forums and removing any threads/posts mentioning Phorm and/or Webwise has just been removed from the forum.

I'm utterly disgusted at this and will be making a written complaint to BT about this.

Anyway, before they removed the thread, I grabbed a copy (it was in my cache) which I am going to up to my webspace somewhere; as soon as I do so, I will be inviting you all to PM me for the url to the thread. Obviously I can't post the url publicly as i can't afford to have BT threatening me.

OB

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The office manager for my MP has suggested my MP write to "Gareth Thomas MP, the Minister with responsibility for OFCOM and for consumer affairs generally. He will reply or instruct someone at OFCOM to reply - that's one thing
you can be sure of, even if you don't much like the reply, you always get one!"

Fingers crossed that I like the reply.

---------- Post added at 16:11 ---------- Previous post was at 16:09 ----------

Don't forget to block it in your robots.txt or BT will find it by deep packet inspection ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

He who sups with the devil..

Can I just ask the people in this thread who are sticking up for him (presumably from his past, I know him not), if he's that good, how come he took the proverbial thirty pieces of silver from a creature who has a history that might be politely be described as "interesting"?:confused:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Something Simon with his Privacy international hat on would have fought.. :( but with his 80/20 hat on will this mean surrender the freedom.


I do feel for him but as it says in the bible sell you soul to the devil and all is lost.

Copied this from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7283333.stm
I read this and it comes over as more we know Kent has no reputation and what he did here was go for Simon to gain reputation but a lepoard never changes his spots just his hunting habits.

From how Simon seems to have been manipoulated through this whole affair I feel for him it must be torture to see 30yrs of reputation being discredited by someone who has shown contempt for ISP customers with an opinion, failure to do what was promised(video of public meeting) and genrally failed to answer questions with straight answers. Instead you get what is practised sales talk then finally MPO inaccuracies in what VM and he says added to the illegal trials.

Simon is now in a position where he can either save his reputaion or watch his lifes work crumple I certainly woudn't want to be in his shoes.

---------- Post added at 16:21 ---------- Previous post was at 16:16 ----------

or the paid Russian hackers placing maliticious iframes on it.

Sad we have to be like this due to a company that is illegal in all its works I think that unless people are willing to match their distrust for Phorm with moving from the 3 Big ISPs then phorm has won.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Yes I noticed that. It was there earlier this afternoon but when I looked just now it had gone without trace. I see the BT moderator Mark is around this afternoon and replied to a few posts, but just deleting a post like that is not on. Decent moderators would at least have replaced it with a comment stating why it had been deleted. Sort of sets the scene doesn't it...

Dave

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Found this on an investor site:
http://boards.fool.co.uk/Message.asp...310&sort=whole

From my own perspective though:

1. Phorm has about £1.50 of cash per share (warning fag packet calculation).

2. It's business model looks so full of holes that if it were codenamed "Emmental" then I doubt anyone would be surprised.

3. The public outcry against the business model and the legal questions add significant risk well beyond what any sensible investor should ever consider.

4. The Virgin denouncement that they don't have an "Exclusive Agreement" suggests that Phorm's previous claims to the contrary verge on the level of "actionable".

Common sense screams that Phorm is a complete raging short and that if it were 90% lower then it may just be the right price. Can I enter this in the CQ competition as a short? I'd type on the CQ board but there's a reason why I'm posting this at this point in time - I'm rushed off my feet.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I had a thread killed off too, a few weeks ago after the second Webspies thread was locked and before a new one was opened. I was pointing out that I thought the use of a cookie-based opt-out was fundamentally incompatible with DPA Section 11 opt-out rights, and referencing a detailed letter I had written to the Director of Regulatory Compliance about the subject.

For some reason BT are trying to keep all Webspies discussion contained. Eventually after nagging I got the text of my original post quoted in the new thread but even that was bizarre, as I posted a complaint, then the censored post got re-instated in the complaint, then the censored post appeared wholesale ealier up the thread. What the hell are they playing at and WHY!?

Anyway I have already decided I will publish all my correspondance with BT so watch this space. OB I suggest you just stick the link to the censored thread in this thread, being careful if you have any BT logos to link to the logo from the BT site to work around copyright.

---------- Post added at 16:59 ---------- Previous post was at 16:49 ----------

Okay here is my letter, now open letter, to BTs director of regulatory compliance:

http://www.daltonfirth.co.uk/docs/ph...080403_web.pdf

I've already published on Badphorm Don Foster's opinion that Phorm's plans do protect privacy, which I tend to agree with him in this specific case, however my concern is not about Phorm but about the principal of allowing intra-ISP profiling and the implications of allowing such a market to open:

http://www.daltonfirth.co.uk/docs/ph...r_20080501.pdf

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks shall enjoy a read later with a brew :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

"Webspies"? please tell me you got that from me, I'm trying to contribute...:(

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

When did you first coin the phrase and how does it relate to whois on webspies.org.uk? - I've genuinely no idea where it came from but I registered it thus:

---------- Post added at 17:16 ---------- Previous post was at 17:15 ----------

Domain name:
webspies.org.uk

Registrant:
JD Firth

Registrant type:
UK Individual

Registrant's address:
The registrant is a non-trading individual who has opted to have their
address omitted from the WHOIS service.

Registrar:
GX Networks Ltd t/a 123-Reg.co.uk [Tag = 123-REG]
URL: http://www.123-reg.co.

Relevant dates:
Registered on: 04-Apr-2008
Renewal date: 04-Apr-2010

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

RE: the BT removed thread.

Ok, folks, as advised I have removed the BT branding and I have upped it to one of my domains.

I know it may not be too big a deal to post the link here, but I would rather anyone who wants to see the original thread PM me for the link.

What really annoys me about this sort of censorship is, you can post on that forum that BT are crap, their system is crap, their CS is crap, or their equipment is crap and you get a reply from a Mod offering ways to sort your problem out, but mention Phorm/Webwise anywhere other than where they want you to post (i.e in a thread they won't reply to) and it gets censored or, more likely, removed. Disgusting!!!

OB

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

How ironic. The poster had just commented about how he was surprised that the mods hadn't already deleted it and they just went and proved the point by going ahead and removing it without explanation. Hey ho.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You can always email the BT Beta forum moderators direct asking about this, using the forum moderation team email address. Maybe lots of people emailing with the same question? They won't tolerate you calling them out in the forum itself.

If anyone wants to pm me I can give a bit more info about other threads in the BT Beta forums.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

was ist das?

BT actively censoring their own Broadband forums but only on webvise topic..??

One for El Reg me thinks...

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well - 'Andrew' tried starting another thread 'over there' - which lasted approx. 2 minutes!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The Bottom Line as the Phorm /Webwise system stands at the moment.

If you are unfortunate like me to still be on a Phorm/Webwise ISP then:-

If you are prepared to block the Webwise Sites at the IPSEC/Good Software Firewall/Router level then you choke the Webwise Browser re-route system & this makes the Advertisement System they are relying on very difficult to implement!

Use of the Hosts file is problematic, as the Browser Cookie or Code can be told to re-route via the true Webwise IP address (not just the URL Name).

This doesn't stop the Wire-tap as it stands at the moment, but what use is the Wire-tap to BT/Phorm under these conditions.

I would rather block these Domains in such a fashion than feed their System & take the hit of Site Time-outs & having to refresh when their system is forced into a temporary loop at the ISP!

Keep your Javascript, Java software up to date to minimize the danger from Javascript, Java injection Exploits!

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'm trying to find the address for the moderators but can't. Could you point me in the right direction?

I'd like to invite them over to CF for a good old natter.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

They've done much worse - at one point they removed the complete Webwise Q & A thread (containing answers to questions by Adam Liversage) and returned it to the forum edited and locked so that it could slip off the first page into obscurity...

Many here can provide details of this I'm sure...


:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

It comes to something when you have to use software to protect you from what your ISP is doing to your service.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'd like to PM you with it but I can't.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I thought the sky had fallen in when Microsoft felt the need to include a virus checker in Windows for Workgroups. (msav, updated every time you installed a new operating system). ;)

---

Over 5 weeks ago I sent an e-mail to Virgin Trains to let them know how much VM were degrading the Virgin brand. I've just had a reply, they have passed it on to VM. This is the age of the train ...:monkey:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I emailed them about 40 minutes ago. Whether they read it I don't know but perhaps we all should have a go.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

All those items you describe that a Mod responds to are basically about BT's incompetence or inefficiency. Both may indicate a poorly run organization but it is not illegal. Phorm on the other hand involves illegal interception and they are clearly trying to contain the spread of information by forcing it into a thread that many members or viewers would not naturally gravitate to. That, despite their intransigence, suggests that they do believe they are on uncertain ground and are afraid of the significance of Phorm publicity going mainstream.

Despite the extraordinary efforts of a number of people and some undoubted successes IMHO more than 90% of VM BT and Talk Talk customers still do not know of the existence of Phorm and BT at least will do their damnedest to prevent that.

After all when they do run their test they don't want only to get refuseniks!:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I would like to reply to BT but due to my disgust over the thread locking I was awarded a lifetime ban yet again they have proved they are unfit to run a forum if I could post I would recomend that all that was posted on the BT thread was links to this forum as many of us only subscribe here where the real debate and action is seems BT and Phorm can't publish and be damned as that is what would happen Lets get them to court and see where the smiles come from when their shares take a hammering

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

That to me is the time to change ISPs they will not like to lose all their customers that are not happy with this arrangement.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi all.

Cor, I go away for a weekend and there's FORTY new pages for me to trawl through. Ouch.


I got a reply from my MP, Tim Boswell:

I then, a few days later, got a follow-up:
There's also a hand-written bit just under saying 'The main issue is properly informed consent'

I'm glad that he got back in touch. I shall be writing back pointing out that while informed consent is one of the major issues, the assumed consent of webmasters and the profiling of opted-out customers are two other major areas of concern.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

There are many small share holders who do not know about this phorm or the illegal trials. I found out my mother still had her shares in BT and for the last 3 years has been allowing the chairman to cast her vote by proxy since she is in her 80s travelling about the country is impossible for her.

I am now handling her portfolio of BT, and TSB shares I am thinking of starting a forum for the small investors within BT to let more know what is happening also I feel they do deserve some questions answered since it is their investment that is at risk with illegal trials of something so obnoxous as phorm. (managment and the snooping)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Have they said whether they'll be restricting file/mime types at all?

I've just been reading a bit on El Reg about "CloudFS" and thinking about internet based storage. Imagine Phorm coupled with BT Digital Vault. If they can "see the whole internet" they can scan the stuff you put on the digital vault to target their advertising at the stuff in your documents.

A number of companies offer these storage solutions. I've never used one, so I don't know the protocols used. I have used WebDAV before and if it's not HTTPS it would be accessible to them.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

There's so many other apps that use http, and so many apps that are built on IE7 (and cannot be distinguished from it by user agent) including Microsoft Office, OpenOffice, and many others... the user-agent whitelist guff is pure misdirection. BT and Phorm will know this if they have been developing this garbage for 2 years or more.

As for mime type, I haven't seen anything on their sites that mentions a mime type whitelist...

"Your search - mime site:phorm.com - did not match any documents."
"Your search - mime site:webwise.com - did not match any documents."

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

How easy would it be for Phorm to redirect users away from, say, this forum or maybe El Reg - would you trust Kent not to do just that?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sky lifeline to Virgin Media...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008...yb.virginmedia

"Virgin Media's new chief executive, Neil Berkett, who took over from Steve Burch, said the company was concentrating on improving its broadband offering and reducing 'churn' - the number of customers leaving."

Has anyone seem the Q1 churn figures, any idea when they get published?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

For someone trying to reduce churn hes doing one hell of a Job. Phorm, accepting the RIAA/MPAA 3 strikes policy... wonder what other lunacy hes thinking of next LOL

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi, all been reading for a few weeks now after bt`s censorship and getting banned for speaking truths, thought i`ll post here.
I have informed a forum i used which has 150k users and lurkers of Phorm/webwise, and what a response from them as they mostly use a pc for forums and email nothing else.
Gave them all the links to the information about the system and what it means to them. So me hoping the msg is out where the avg user now knows what going on. :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:welcome: Wildie and well done, you. :clap:

Here's a major post for all your friends to read: http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/34...-post5762.html

Please ask all your friends and colleagues to do everything on Kursk's most excellent 'must do' list.

OB

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:clap: Good work. Keep it up. Have you written to your MP yet? Your MEPs? Liberty? The anti phishing working group who have accepted Phorm as a member? If you need help with any of that then just shout.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The Freesat launch can't be good news for VM either, particularly the no-contract route into HDTV at a time when people might be reluctant to commit to highish monthly payments.

On the flip side, the launch of VM i-player, delivered by the TV-on-demand infrastructure, would take pressure off the BB network, relative to other ISP's.

No wonder they are sitting on the fence, but I hope last weeks announcement is due to increased churn. The number of people threatening to leave if Phorm happens must be much larger than the number who have already gone.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I apologise if this has already been posted, I've been trying to keep up with this thread but with so many posts it's been a bit difficult!

I am sure most of you will have already seen the legal analysis by out-law.com (run by law firm Pinsent Masons) which Phorm are praising in their blog(http://www.out-law.com/default.aspx?page=9090). And to quote Phorm... "The article makes the important distinction between the letter and spirit of the law". Well... you could 'imply' (don't phorm just love that word? ;)) a lot from that statement (like phorm are admitting that it is illegal?).

anyway...

A few things jumped out at me from their analysis. (bold emphasis is mine and not in the original article)

Point 1...
Am I missing something here? How can they achieve this without storing a users browsing history? (even if in the cookie on the users machine)

Point 2...
See point 1.. a contradiction? It MUST be able to know where you've been in order to satisfy the advertisers targeting rules?

Point 3...
See point 2... how can they not target children if they do not know who you are?

Now their legal analysis...

This argument fails yet again, for the obvious reason that everyone already knows, google see's only publicly accessable pages, phorm will profile everything, hidden pages and paid for content aswell.

Again, we all know this point is invalid. What about webmail that is not indexed by search engines (I run webmail for a few domains I own for example which are not listed in any search engine).

As we all know the home office 'advice' was essentially withdrawn and before their article was posted.

Further down their piece the mention some more of the issues raised and I guess to some degree agree that they are illegal but in their opinion nothing will ever be done about it.

Far be it from me to criticise a law firm on their interpretation of the law, they are far more qualified than me, but the article suggests to me that they do not fully understand the concerns/implications that have been raised (or are ignoring them... read on). They simply say that even though it's 'technically' illegal they'll just get away with it (they seem to imply that these are "minor transgressions").

I was quite shocked to read this from a law firm but then it becomes apparent in their update at the bottom of the article....

Now it becomes a little clearer... and to be honest, quite shocking (and I didn't think any more of this would shock me!) Is it worth getting in contact with out-law.com or would the effort be futile?

Again apologies if this has already been posted, but it's a little difficult to keep up with it all.

Regards...

T

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I for sure will be part of the 'Churn' of customers, Just heard from a very reliable source that my town is getting 100mb FTTD :dunce::dunce::dunce:. Announcement imminent.

Goodbye VM, you can shove your Phorm plans where the sun don't shine.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

@Tarka :welcome:

Good post. Interestingly, the author of the article, Struan Robertson, also writes for Times-online. I think they are up to their necks in Phorm as well.

http://www.out-law.com/page-7520

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

@Tarka - I think the out-law.com thing has been done:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/12...l#post34543321

Post 5422


:D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Agreed, Paul, but it is always nice to see a new face with a view. :)

It's also always nice to be reminded that Phorm and its allies keep referring to this crap as a "privacy revolution" when we all know it's nothing of the sort. I cringe everytime I see them use that phrase. :mad::mad:

:welcome: tarka

OB

On a side note, referring to that article, I'll need to make sure I get Struan (made up name?) to represent me should I ever fracture anyone's skull.

"M'lud, my client should go free; yes, he broke the law, but these are only hairline fractures". :monkey:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi all. Stumbled upon this thread researching my favourite topic for TheSpoof.com. Shameless self promotion I know but I figure since I'm also promoting awareness of Phorm because I hate the idea of my ISP cashing in on my creative output it is to our mutual benefit and may even raise a few smiles too, so if you like them please Digg them and pass them around...

Phorm Responds to Claims It's Evil
http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.c...dline=s5i32206

Privacy Campaigners say Privacy is a Joke
http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.c...dline=s5i32238

Ministry: Phorm is Legal in UK
http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.c...dline=s5i32484

Home Secretary Jacqui Smith had triple brain bypass in 2006
http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.c...dline=s1i33366

Online advertisers increase TV advertising to increase online advertising revenues
http://www.thespoof.com/news/spoof.c...dline=s5i33639

Tara and keep up the fight
JG

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

The more the merrier. :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

many thanks for the welcome :D

A little introduction I guess...

I've been following the phorm story since it first broke and am currently with BT although I can leave at the drop of a hat.

I am another refugee from the BT forums, not that I was an active member on there, I only joined because of phorm and felt the need to get some information up there for the other users.

Regards...

T

---------- Post added at 21:55 ---------- Previous post was at 21:50 ----------

I thought it might have been :D but it made me feel better typing it up and pointing out the contradictions. :D :D :D

on a side note, as I now get emailed for every reply I should be able to keep up to date a lot easier. :D

T

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thanks for the name check OldBear :).

Just to be clear, especially for new joiners, the links in this list are an accumulation of the actions identified by the many contributors to this thread and as such are the product of everyone's hard graft. Listing it was the easy bit.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Very true but you made a nice post collating all the suggestions into one nice and neat post. I would make the suggestion of adding writing to liberty to the list but given previous information that it takes them up to 8 weeks to respond and the fact I have yet to receive any response from them to my letter sent in march it may be a somewhat futile suggestion.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Ive put the gist of this on BT Beta forums and emailed to Emma Sanderson for comment.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Thank you. If anyone at any time wishes to update the list, please feel free to do so. I will not feel sleighted or aggrieved in any way and it is best to keep the list current.

A comprehensive, up-to-date list seems to me to be important so that we don't 'forget' any good ideas or contacts and, as we reach a wider audience, it should help make it easier for new people to get up to speed and onside without wading through the whole thread.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

You are welcome kursk and I think its a great idea and very useful for new members and the newly inphormed.

I did spot this over on the BT forum too:

P imping your data
H ijacking your clickstream
O bfuscating the issues when answering questions
R ipa breaking
M assively unwanted, unneeded and unacceptable intrusion into our privacy.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Perhaps request that the post be made a sticky in a (locked) thread of its own, to make it more visible? Thread title to be decided?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Excellent idea. Really excellent idea. Any comments from the mods?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well VM have also hit the timesonline with their reduced churn they leanrt to cook the books also.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...null&offset=24

Are we all daft or something does he not think VM customers are digital literate?

What is the churn now then I left so that is one more that it would have been :D

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I'll PM one to request it, also that people can PM a mod to add links when discovered..

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Cool deal. Nice way to end a long day. Heading to bed here shortly.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Well I've decided I should after following this thread over the last couple of weeks say 'Hi' and thanks to all those who are doing their upmost to protect our online freedom, and keep us free to choose whether to give up our online security or not.

A couple of points however, I think you're putting too much faith in that 80\20 thinking guy, as I seem to recall he started out here saying how there was an opportunity for us all to get along, for Phorm to coexist and all live in some advertising utopia. PIA or no PIA, I can't help thinking that he's going to report that there's room for all concerned providing there's an opt-in clause of course. He seems to have missed the bit about it being illegal and that there may not infact be a utopia to live in. But like everyone else, I shall await the arrival of the PIA with interest.

With a view to raising awareness of phorm accross other forums etc. How about creating some kind of mini-banner or signature banner: http://browse.deviantart.com/customi...ns/sigbanners/ that we can all download, then insert into our various forum signatures both here and elsewhere, they can also be used in emails too I believe. Perhaps a url to a short succinct list of facts could be embeded within it, so that anyone clicking it gets just that, the facts. I can't help thinking you guys are missing a trick here, as there are people out there that would download and display such a thing, just because it's popular to do so. So why not use such to your advantage.

As regards extra pulicity, perhaps you should start a mini-forum on somewhere like: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...play.html?f=67 as its fronted by a journalist\tv host he likes publicity and has a lot of dedicated fans who would be willing to spread the word. There's alot of people on there just itching to right a wrong by virginmedia and to assert their rights. Perhaps you could use that to further the cause?

There are also alot of people over there seeking deals from virginmedia and being offered advice on how to go about such dealings. Perhaps they wouldn't be so willing to take out short-term contracts when they realise they stand to be profiled and spammed throughout their whole surfing experience.

It seems to be the short-term contracts that virginmedia are most interested in, they seem to believe that once they have you you will be happy to have a ring stuck through your nose and they'll lead you where they want you to go. As a longstanding customer of some 10+ years, I can say that in my own case. That's not going to happen, if virginmedia decide they will remove my choice, I shall make one by removing myself from their customer base and make way for someone who will stop by for 12months and then chase the next good deal with three, orange or whoever gives them the best price on broadband. If virginmedia want to play fast and loose with our loyalty then they deserve everything they get.

Anyway, I shall leave those thoughts with you. I have written a few letters to various people like everyone else, I shall in the future be writing to virginmedia and stopping them from sharing my information with any other companies. If they decide they want to betray the trust of longstanding customers, I shall leave them to their fate.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Hi goblin, thanks for the thoughts. :)

There are already loads of banners, avatars, etc, which are anti-phorm available here: http://www.badphorm.co.uk/e107_plugi...wtopic.php?384

I (and a few others) have already tried getting this message to the posters over there. Unfortunately, most of the posts disappear off the front pages faster than you can say, "This isn't saving me cash, I couldn't be less interested".

Nice idea, but most people over there don't seem to be interested.

OB

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Serves me right for being late to the party and not reading everything doesn't it :) I see there's quite a choice. Thanks, I shall be using a few of those.

Have you tried posting to get the attention of the mods, or Martin Lewis himself. He's keen for publicity apparantly, as reported on various other forums so he may pick up the mantle and run with it. I don't think it's a case of various people not being interested, more a case of them not understanding the technicalities or the consequences of it.

All that's getting through to them is that it's another piece of anti-spyware and privacy protection. Of which there are loads already out there, they won't necessarily grasp that Phorm see their data before they see it appear on the screen and alter it accordingly, unless it's put accross as though you were talking in a manner similar to that you would use to speak to a 3 year old. Well that's my opinion anyway ;)

Once again, thanks for the links to the signatures.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

I think we ought to do something there. There are huge threads with lots of views. It would take a number of us to go over and keep the thread near the top.

How about something like "BT, Virgin Media and Talk-talk will cost you more than money" ? maybe start from the angle that you will be snooped on, but they are not offering anything in return, no discounts etc., just to get the discussion going. Education later.

If a few people are willing to help keep the thread current, i'll start one up.

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

:cool:

OB this is not just a this is an evolution of the internet. I mean... have you EVER seen a forum thread go on, with so much content and yes, with lively debate at times, but clearly with one common aim and shared belief within the contributors?

This is a revolution indeed! :D

Hank

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Sorry, goblin, I :dunce: missed the bit about Martin being a bit of an attention grabber in your first post, and you're absolutely correct, he is, and because of that, what you say above is an excellent idea.

Consider me on it. :D

OB

btw @ Kursk, you're right, mate; credit where credit's due. Thanks to all who provided all the info, but also to you for bringing together a great list.

I also support this list as a sticky post. :)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

And as he's seconded that, I'll third it :D

Mod types -can we have it stickied please?

Hank

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Most of us I am sure have been mentioning to friends the Phorm link up with ISP's and its illegal interception of data and attempt to make people aware, but is it just me or do any others find it difficult at times to talk to friends who are a little 'technophobic'.

Although we do our bit and complain to the powers that be that make high level decisions and can also make 'waves' I think that education of the masses is very important aspect of the campaign. I wonder if anybody has a 'good' but simple method that works I can use with most people and doesn't make the person delivering the educational sermon (myself) seem like a person with a fanatical cause. I think I bore myself also too easily at times :blah:

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Quick follow up to my earlier post about Martin Lewis' MSE site:

Here's what happened last time I posted there: http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/....html?t=877917

By Alfie E:
You'll also notice the advice I was given in the last post,
Well, Phorm had been, (and the threads all died without a trace) but not the FIPR letter to the HO.

Oh dear.

OB

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Oddly enough :-

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/...1#post10740871

Bang on about the discount whilst the message goes across?

Perhaps someone with a few posts under their belts on that site next?

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Good opening post ;)

Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
 

Seconded